Did you gain water/glycogen weight when switching to maintenance?
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mommarnurse wrote: »
@mommanursemommarnurse wrote: »Let's think of the simple science behind this. This phenomenon is based on the temporary storage of water which is always temporary and not actually fat stores. The only thing that would cause the latter is an excess of calories which, in maintenance, one would not actually have. Therefore, the few lbs seen increased on the scale is really not permanent, will go away shortly and after all, insignificant.
For what it's worth, I did see the scale go up. About 3 lbs and slowly toggle back down over a few weeks.
No - the discussion is not about fat or calorie excess and the water/glycogen doesn't go away, it's the body returning to normal.
That's what this discussion is about, though. What are you trying to say exactly? The body is in a constant state of balance, while losing weight or not glycogen stores/use, water retention ETC. All ebb and flow on a daily basis. I do not believe it's "returning to normal" the water comes and goes and it's a temporary reactive mechanism (the few lbs seen increased on the scale after going to maint.) Such as how we see an increase on the scale after a hard weight lifting session or consuming a large salty calorie-dense meal.
The OP is asking about one specific phenomenon not general weight or water fluctuations.
Glycogen and its associated water weight is in a constant state of ebb and flow depending on activity, exercise, feeding schedules and food choices.
When dieting that ebb and flow is typically in a lower range - as I had an atypical dieting strategy (see my first post) I probably have atypical results. As I do endurance cardio my range is probably larger than most as well.
When you go from deficit to maintenance the store of glycogen/water returns to a normal but higher range, it's not temporary.0 -
When you go from deficit to maintenance the store of glycogen/water returns to a normal but higher range, it's not temporary.
@sijomial, With this being said, do you think it is a good tactic that some people do, overshoot goal by some? So when the glycogen/water returns, they're at their goal weight, and not 2-5lbs or so over?
@benevempress, good thread and questions. I find all this stuff fascinating!0 -
When you go from deficit to maintenance the store of glycogen/water returns to a normal but higher range, it's not temporary.
@sijomial, With this being said, do you think it is a good tactic that some people do, overshoot goal by some? So when the glycogen/water returns, they're at their goal weight, and not 2-5lbs or so over?
@Fursian That's one strategy. But one of many:
A slow tapering down of calorie deficit as you close in on goal.
Eating at goal weight maintenance calories all through your weight loss instead of taking a cut from TDEE.
Slow increase of calories once you get to goal - so you are still in a declining deficit which will mask any water/glycogen bounce.
The emotional impact of an unexpected rebound in weight also varies from person to person. I'm a daily weigher and fluctuations are expected and unimportant to me, the number on the scale is just data - that's not the case for everyone.1 -
1) Did you eat any particular "diet" ...? no, just stuck to my calories, ate pretty healthily though as I cook 99% of my meals and follow the 80/20 rule, 80% good nutrition /20 % whatever I want (usually chocolate /crisps)
2) Did your exercise regimen stay pretty much the same during the transition to maintenance, or did it increase or decrease significantly? My exercise has roughly been consistent even in maintenance, perhaps even a tad more than previous plus I have been consistently lifting - something I hadn't done much of until a year ago.
3) How much of a net calorie deficit were you using before switching to maintenance (including exercise calories)? I was losing on 1600-1800 cals and maintain on 2100-2300 - (gross cals) I use TDEE method rather than thinking of net calories
4) When you changed to maintenance, did you increase calories all at once or more gradually? I did it gradually and over a few months until my weight steadied at the middle of my goal range.
5) Did you gain water/glycogen weight when switching to maintenance? If so, a) How much? and b) Did that added weight stay (you either adapted your goal weight to the new number or had to restrict calories to get back to the original goal), or did it go away on it's own as your body got used to the new level of calories? as I increased slowly I didn't really notice the water weight, I still see highs (1-2lbs up) on a Mon and Tues each week from enjoying extra carbs at the weekend. Or if I have DOMS worse than usual that will reflect on the scales.0 -
1. No
2. Stayed the same. I switch things up regularly, but not at the same time as going to maintenance.
3. Roughly 500 calorie deficit while losing. Towards the end wasn't losing quite a lb/week so probably less than that.
4. Increased by roughly 300-400 all at once thinking that was roughly my deficit at that point. Over the next 6 months I lost another 5 lbs so I probably could have bumped up a bit more.
5. Nope, lost another 5 lbs over 6 months. I didn't make any other changes and the weight loss stopped. I'm happy at this weight.0 -
benevempress wrote: »There is a lot of talk on these boards about water/glycogen gains when changing from a calorie deficit to maintenance, and I'm curious as to whether this is a universal phenomenon that everyone experiences or if it is dependent on other factors. This is what I've seen in the message forums:
- Many people advise newbies to maintenance to increase their calories per day very slowly to avoid the water/glycogen weight gain that (apparently automatically) comes with increasing to maintenance calories. It isn't clear to me if this means the weight gain will still happen but it will be more gradual so it isn't noticable since the person is still in a deficit during the gradual increases or if it supposed to prevent the phenomenon entirely.
- One user told another the reason she was constantly hungry after 1.5 years of maintenance was because she never gained 5 pounds of water/glycogen so she's still depleted.
- At least one user said they didn't experience the scale increase at all.
- Other people said they purposely lost weight to below their target number to allow for maintenance at their target weight since they knew the glycogen restoration would put them higher.
- Others said they did get a scale increase, but it went away within a fairly short period of time (less than a month, I think).
Since I don't expect many MFP users are scientists who can answer my questions about how this works and I didn't find anything in a google search, I'm asking for your personal experiences.
1) Did you eat any particular "diet" while losing (i.e. Low Carb, Paleo, Vegan, etc.), and did this change when we went to maintain? In other words, did your food choices change (if you were Low Carbing during weight loss did you increase your carbs) for maintenance?
2) Did your exercise regimen stay pretty much the same during the transition to maintenance, or did it increase or decrease significantly?
3) How much of a net calorie deficit were you using before switching to maintenance (including exercise calories)?
4) When you changed to maintenance, did you increase calories all at once or more gradually?
5) Did you gain water/glycogen weight when switching to maintenance? If so, a) How much? and b) Did that added weight stay (you either adapted your goal weight to the new number or had to restrict calories to get back to the original goal), or did it go away on it's own as your body got used to the new level of calories?
1) No particular diet. I do eat most of my calories towards the end of the day, but that is still ongoing.
2) Exercise varies for me always, depending on time available. But that is also ongoing and not isolated to my weight loss period.
3) 500 or less usually, net. That varied some with exercise intensity. If I'm working out hard, I tend to eat to a smaller deficit to recover. If I'm just adding walking, mild workouts, daily activity level I can more easily eat at a larger deficit and not feel sluggish or hungry.
4) More or less all at once. I did taper down to a slightly lesser deficit (250 cals a day or so) near the end, but only after lowering my goal weight from the original.
5) No. Once I switched to maintenance the trends were the same. I so seem to slow my loss (when in deficit) or have larger fluctuations (when in maintenance) depending on how much strength and/or intense type cardio I do. I'm fairly certain this is partly due to drinking more water on exhaustive workouts, and partly glycogen stores being increased. But the swing up seems to go along with intense workouts, then swings down some with rest days or lighter days.
I do slightly "cheat" my maintenance calorie goal, but this is due to giving myself some extra wiggle room and not worry about logging real small stuff, as well as keep error from not weighing any foods in check towards the lower calorie goal.
I do think glycogen can get depleted over time, and not all people recover from it properly. But some people might not notice, because they aren't working out hard enough to let the depleted state really impact their workouts hard. After switching to maintenance I had a couple days close to a "bonk" event, but with lesser deterioration of my abilities. It was like hitting a mild wall. I could keep going, but not at pace so slow to be a real "bonk" but below my abilities still. I think lack of carbs during the recovery days eating and not keeping enough recovery time between more intense workouts was the primary cause.
Similar to protein for heavy lifters, there are studies on how quick one can replenish carb stores. And I think even at the amateur level we can see it in action. I'm sure if people were on a more aggressive deficit (as viewed as a percentage of body weight) then it would more likely show up at lower exercise intensities, as well as possibly for some people with macros that limit carbs.1 -
1) I just tried to avoid eating out and cutting down on my dessert intake. I was strict about not going over my calorie goal for the day. I always ate my net calories, none of the oh well, I'm still eating 1200 even though I worked out and burned 300+calories. I also didn't cut anything out. I just tried to make more reasonable, healthy choices.
2) Yeah, basically the same exercise regimen. I've always rotated between Jillian Michaels' workout videos, running, elliptical, going for walks. I like to change it up because I get bored doing the same things over and over.
3) I was on 1200 cal/day setting for a very long time. I would always eat my exercise calories back and sometimes go over and sometimes under. It just depended on how I felt.
4) It took me until last March (2015) to finally just set my calorie allowance to more of a maintenance setting. I initially set it at 1750, but I was doing it mostly to *try* and recomp. That never worked thanks to me being inexperience in weight training... another story.
5) That's a kind of tricky question for me. My original goal was to be 140 lbs. I managed to get about 8-10 lbs below that and stay there for quite some time. I think it was in part because I stuck at eating very little and never really hitting a maintenance calorie-wise because I was worried about weight gain. I'm now at 140-ish give or take 3 lbs. up or down because I'm not always very good at keeping up my logging and I tend to slack in the evening.
I've been wearing a Fitbit Charge HR since Christmas time and am now seeing why I "gain" so easily. My total calorie burn most of the time is 1700-1800 (with exercise). To be honest, it's probably my own fault I stick where I am weight-wise because I "fall off the wagon" a few times a week.0 -
1) Did you eat any particular "diet" while losing (i.e. Low Carb, Paleo, Vegan, etc.), and did this change when we went to maintain? In other words, did your food choices change (if you were Low Carbing during weight loss did you increase your carbs) for maintenance? Not per sei...most people would probably describe my diet as being pretty "clean" though in that it consists largely of whole foods or minimally processed foods with the occasional smattering of "junk" here and there. I've been maintaining going on three years and I eat the same now as I did when I was losing weight...just a few more calories and I have a little more latitude for those treats.
2) Did your exercise regimen stay pretty much the same during the transition to maintenance, or did it increase or decrease significantly?I started focusing more on fitness objectives...my exercise activity increased with more calories to work with
3) How much of a net calorie deficit were you using before switching to maintenance (including exercise calories)?I wasn't doing the MFP method, I used TDEE and lost a good 1Lb per week on 2300 calories.
4) When you changed to maintenance, did you increase calories all at once or more gradually?It took awhile of just playing around with things...we aren't machines that require exactly XXXX calories...I just had to play around for about a month until I finally stopped losing weight.
5) Did you gain water/glycogen weight when switching to maintenance? If so, a) How much? and b) Did that added weight stay (you either adapted your goal weight to the new number or had to restrict calories to get back to the original goal), or did it go away on it's own as your body got used to the new level of calories?I stopped cutting at 180 Lbs...since going to maintenance my average weight has been about 183 Lbs but it can be as low as 178 and as high as 186.
Worrying about this is pretty much a waste of time...it's impossible to say what is due to glycogen vs what is due to other things that are just going to make your weight jump around....I'm sure jumping to 183 was party glycogen restoration, but that's something that's always in flex too, even in maintenance. It's more important for you to understand that having a goal of exactly XXX Lbs is pretty unrealistic considering that body weight isn't static....it will always bounce around...maintenance is a range, not a specific number.
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When you go from deficit to maintenance the store of glycogen/water returns to a normal but higher range, it's not temporary.
@sijomial, With this being said, do you think it is a good tactic that some people do, overshoot goal by some? So when the glycogen/water returns, they're at their goal weight, and not 2-5lbs or so over?
@benevempress, good thread and questions. I find all this stuff fascinating!
The other possibility that happens to many that have had exercise as a major component of new life losing weight.
You get to goal weight and realize it isn't about the weight anymore anyway - but rather the performance in exercise or the look from the improvements from exercise.
As such weight no longer matters as much as other more useful signs.
And even then if concerned about weight, or weight as a proxy to say body fat, is if the place you gain fat first starts to increase. For many that is waist - and easy to see and check.
If the pants start to feel tight for no known expected reasons - you trim a couple hundred calories for a couple of weeks - all good.1 -
When you go from deficit to maintenance the store of glycogen/water returns to a normal but higher range, it's not temporary.
@sijomial, With this being said, do you think it is a good tactic that some people do, overshoot goal by some? So when the glycogen/water returns, they're at their goal weight, and not 2-5lbs or so over?
@benevempress, good thread and questions. I find all this stuff fascinating!
The other possibility that happens to many that have had exercise as a major component of new life losing weight.
You get to goal weight and realize it isn't about the weight anymore anyway - but rather the performance in exercise or the look from the improvements from exercise.
As such weight no longer matters as much as other more useful signs.
And even then if concerned about weight, or weight as a proxy to say body fat, is if the place you gain fat first starts to increase. For many that is waist - and easy to see and check.
If the pants start to feel tight for no known expected reasons - you trim a couple hundred calories for a couple of weeks - all good.
I'm struggling with this same dilemma right now.
I am slowly increasing my calories from 1200 during weight loss, to eventually 1850 for maintenance.
Trying to add just small increments around 100 calories at a time.
It's been rocky. It's pretty scarey when the scales begin to swing upward!1 -
I really don't understand how people are gaining water/glyco weight and NOT feeling like nothing fits anymore. And even losing inches! I've been stuck in my "fat pants" for almost a month now, and I'm definitely not eating more than my fair share. But maybe that's because I exercised before entering maintenance.0
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alexandrakendal wrote: »I really don't understand how people are gaining water/glyco weight and NOT feeling like nothing fits anymore. And even losing inches! I've been stuck in my "fat pants" for almost a month now, and I'm definitely not eating more than my fair share. But maybe that's because I exercised before entering maintenance.
Most glycogen is stored in the liver and should have no bearing on how your clothes fit.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »alexandrakendal wrote: »I really don't understand how people are gaining water/glyco weight and NOT feeling like nothing fits anymore. And even losing inches! I've been stuck in my "fat pants" for almost a month now, and I'm definitely not eating more than my fair share. But maybe that's because I exercised before entering maintenance.
Most glycogen is stored in the liver and should have no bearing on how your clothes fit.
Ditto's.
And even the slight increase in what is stored in the muscle mass would be spread amongst all the muscles, so again should be barely noticeable.
But if that "fair share" was determined from when in a diet and exercising - and you aren't exercising now as your phrasing sounds like to me - well .....0 -
I took that to mean the OP didn't wait to reach maintenance to start exercising, but now I can see reading it your way, too.cwolfman13 wrote: »alexandrakendal wrote: »I really don't understand how people are gaining water/glyco weight and NOT feeling like nothing fits anymore. And even losing inches! I've been stuck in my "fat pants" for almost a month now, and I'm definitely not eating more than my fair share. But maybe that's because I exercised before entering maintenance.
But if that "fair share" was determined from when in a diet and exercising - and you aren't exercising now as your phrasing sounds like to me - well .....0 -
Bump! great post_for new maintainers.0
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5. No. I was losing so slowly at the end there really wasn’t much transition.2
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