Stronglifts 5x5 for beginner

I've heard good things about New Rules of Lifting as well, but I haven't tried it personally. I follow a 5/3/1 cycle and it has been working well for me - I'm definitely getting stronger! Good luck with whatever you decide! Love seeing more women getting into lifting *insert flexing emoji here, but I'm on the computer and don't have it*

giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »

I’d recommend Starting Strength over Stronglifts for these reasons:

1. SS has better coaching. SL has none.
2. SS is run by a coach. SL is run by some guy.
3. SS has a very difficult coaching certification process with very high quality coaches. SL has no coaches.
4. If you need help, you can meet with a SS coach in your area. SL does not.
5. SS has a rich instructional and coaching content on YouTube.
6. SS has a podcast.
7. SS has two main books. The book “Starting Strength” is a broad, but easy enough to understand.
8. SS website regularly publishes new content
9. SS does have an app
10. SS has online coaching
11. After your novice phase, what program will you run? SS has programming for the intermediate to continue their gains

I'm LMFAO that #1-4 are all about coaching. But I agree.

I did Stronglifts and loved, loved, loved it. It was simple and fit into the time frame I had available at the time. I did it for about 14 months before I outgrew it and had to move on to an intermediate program.

I'm following the SL5x5 program right now.

As first I wasn't sure how I felt about it. It felt like I was degressing, it was boring, felt too easy and like I wasn't working hard enough. I posted about this on these boards, asked if I should be adding anything to the program or if maybe it sounds like the program wasn't for me. I received some feedback and ran with it. I got myself to just believe in the program, because it has to work right? Too many people follow it for it to suck.

Turns out, the people that gave me feedback were right - I just had to trust it and stick to it. I'm at the point now where it's become challenging, it's fun, I feel like I'm giving my all, and best of all - I'm seeing improvements.

So from someone who didn't believe in this program at first, but do now - I recommend it.

giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »

I’d recommend Starting Strength over Stronglifts for these reasons:

1. SS has better coaching. SL has none.
2. SS is run by a coach. SL is run by some guy.
3. SS has a very difficult coaching certification process with very high quality coaches. SL has no coaches.
4. If you need help, you can meet with a SS coach in your area. SL does not.
5. SS has a rich instructional and coaching content on YouTube.
6. SS has a podcast.
7. SS has two main books. The book “Starting Strength” is a broad, but easy enough to understand.
8. SS website regularly publishes new content
9. SS does have an app
10. SS has online coaching
11. After your novice phase, what program will you run? SS has programming for the intermediate to continue their gains

This is the first I've heard of Starting Strength, and just checked it out.

Questions for you:

1. Are you recommending SS as someone who follows it or are you affiliated with them in any way? I'm asking, because I see a pretty price tag on it, so just wondering if this is a serious recommendation or if it's just advertising, because from what I'm reading on there, I am interested in looking into it more.
2. I don't know that I personally would want to commit to that much cost per month for the coaching. So would you still recommend SS over SL without the coaching package?

stanmann571 wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

I have done both SL and SS.

I preferred the 3x5 routine of SS, which allows you to lift heavier quicker, but, like many others, I stopped doing PCs in lieu of Rows, which are used in SL.

The main advantage of Fed SS over SL IMO are Rip's books and instructional videos and access to the free public SS forum, where you can get advice/assistance from other users, coaches and even Rip himself.

HOWEVER, a word of caution about using the forum. It is not a PC site and stupid w's are not gladly tolerated. You better read Rip's books and search the forun/Net for snswers b4 posting a question and don't even suggest doing something other than recommended or you will most likely get the reply: "YNDTFP!"

I can translate the abbreviation but part of it will be censored by MFP.

BTW, doing Rows instead of PCs is considered NDTFP. Do them instead if you like but don't bother asking for "permission" to do them on the SS forum.

Except that according to my copy of Rip's book Subbing Rows is DTFP.

According to my reading, Rip did not include it as one of the 5 primary lifts because it was too easy to cheat the lift and wasn't consistently replicable, which is why he only recommends it as an accessory lift.

So, it is DTFP only as an accessory to doing the 5 primary lifts - - DL, SQT, BP, OHP & PC.

Jasp03 wrote: »

giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »

I’d recommend Starting Strength over Stronglifts for these reasons:

1. SS has better coaching. SL has none.
2. SS is run by a coach. SL is run by some guy.
3. SS has a very difficult coaching certification process with very high quality coaches. SL has no coaches.
4. If you need help, you can meet with a SS coach in your area. SL does not.
5. SS has a rich instructional and coaching content on YouTube.
6. SS has a podcast.
7. SS has two main books. The book “Starting Strength” is a broad, but easy enough to understand.
8. SS website regularly publishes new content
9. SS does have an app
10. SS has online coaching
11. After your novice phase, what program will you run? SS has programming for the intermediate to continue their gains

This is the first I've heard of Starting Strength, and just checked it out.

Questions for you:

1. Are you recommending SS as someone who follows it or are you affiliated with them in any way? I'm asking, because I see a pretty price tag on it, so just wondering if this is a serious recommendation or if it's just advertising, because from what I'm reading on there, I am interested in looking into it more.
2. I don't know that I personally would want to commit to that much cost per month for the coaching. So would you still recommend SS over SL without the coaching package?

What cost are you talking about?

The book costs $25-30 (I forget the exact price) and I think the app costs $10-15.

However, you can find out all the info you need about the program for free on the Net and an the SS forum. Rip has also posted numerous instructional vidros on the Net for frer as well. So, the program is no more "expensive" than SL to use.

Medhi use to have a public forum that he charged a fee to join. I was a member but he reportedly dropped the forum in order to devote more time to the developmentof his app and his instructional material and videos pale in comparison from those offered for SS.

However, if you like SL better, just do it. As I said above, there's really not much difference between the 2.

In fact, if you just switch to 3x5 instead of 5x5, sub rows for PC and use the same A/B schedule, you'd be doing a hybrid of the 2 programs that many people (including me) have done previously.

hesn92 wrote: »

I think a lot of people choose SL over SS because they are scared of power cleans, which I admit I am. I do SL but 3 sets instead of 5 because I just think 5 is too much. But I’m also kinda lazy.

Cleans are so awesome!

TR0berts wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

stanmann571 wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

I have done both SL and SS.

I preferred the 3x5 routine of SS, which allows you to lift heavier quicker, but, like many others, I stopped doing PCs in lieu of Rows, which are used in SL.

The main advantage of SS over SL IMO are Rip's books and instructional videos and access to the free public SS forum, where you can get advice/assistance from other users, coaches and even Rip himself.

HOWEVER, a word of caution about using the forum. It is not a PC site and stupid w's are not gladly tolerated. You better read Rip's books and search the forun/Net for snswers b4 posting a question and don't even suggest doing something other than recommended or you will most likely get the reply: "YNDTFP!"

I can translate the abbreviation but part of it will be censored by MFP.

BTW, doing Rows instead of PCs is considered NDTFP. Do them instead if you like but don't bother asking for "permission" to do them on the SS forum.

Except that according to my copy of Rip's book Subbing Rows is DTFP.

According to my reading, Rip did not include it as one of the 5 primary lifts because it was too easy to cheat the lift and wasn't consistently replicable, ehich is why he only recommends it as an accessory lift.

So, it is DTFP only as an accessory to doing the 5 primary lifts - - DL, SQT, BP, OHP & PC.

Per SS 2nd edition, p289:

"People without access to bumper plates may choose to use the barbell row instead of the power clean."

I'll have to check my copy for the quote but I distinctly recall Rip criticizing rows in terms of it's lack of suitabilty for training purposes.

My guess is that he added the exception because so many people asked him if it would be ok to do rows instead of PCs and he was just tired of saying YNDTFP.

That said, as I have already mentioned previously, I and many other people have routinely sub'd rows for PCs.

So, whether it is DTFP or not is really moot.

sgt1372 wrote: »

TR0berts wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

stanmann571 wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

I have done both SL and SS.

I preferred the 3x5 routine of SS, which allows you to lift heavier quicker, but, like many others, I stopped doing PCs in lieu of Rows, which are used in SL.

The main advantage of SS over SL IMO are Rip's books and instructional videos and access to the free public SS forum, where you can get advice/assistance from other users, coaches and even Rip himself.

HOWEVER, a word of caution about using the forum. It is not a PC site and stupid w's are not gladly tolerated. You better read Rip's books and search the forun/Net for snswers b4 posting a question and don't even suggest doing something other than recommended or you will most likely get the reply: "YNDTFP!"

I can translate the abbreviation but part of it will be censored by MFP.

BTW, doing Rows instead of PCs is considered NDTFP. Do them instead if you like but don't bother asking for "permission" to do them on the SS forum.

Except that according to my copy of Rip's book Subbing Rows is DTFP.

According to my reading, Rip did not include it as one of the 5 primary lifts because it was too easy to cheat the lift and wasn't consistently replicable, ehich is why he only recommends it as an accessory lift.

So, it is DTFP only as an accessory to doing the 5 primary lifts - - DL, SQT, BP, OHP & PC.

Per SS 2nd edition, p289:

"People without access to bumper plates may choose to use the barbell row instead of the power clean."

I'll have to check my copy for the quote but I distinctly recall Rip criticizing rows in terms of it's lack of suitabilty for training purposes.

My guess is that he added the exception because so many people asked him if it would be ok to do rows instead of PCs and he was just tired of saying YNDTFP.

That said, as I have already mentioned previously, I and many other people have routinely sub'd rows for PCs.

So, whether it is DTFP or not is really moot.

Updated in the 3rd edition. Too many people substituting rows for no good reason.

First, barbell rows are not a substitute for power cleans. If you use them for this purpose, you have decided to omit a more important exercise in favor of an assistance exercise, an easier movement that does not provide most of the benefits of the more important basic exercise. I say this because of the prevalence of this substitution since the second edition of this book was published. Power cleans are one of the primary constituents of the program, and barbell rows – useful as they may be to intermediate lifters – are not.

I concur Starting Strength is much better than SL, but the suggestion to drop SL to 3x5 instead of the prescribed 5x5 would be a reasonable adjustment if dead set on SL. The biggest problem I have with SL is the unnecessary volume level for a novice and it's starting point is a waste for most people who can lift heavier with good form. There is alot of wasted time and energy that is lost on a efficiency level.

Rows are perfectly acceptable if cleans cannot be preformed correctly or at the volume.

giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »

Jasp03 wrote: »

giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »

I’d recommend Starting Strength over Stronglifts for these reasons:

1. SS has better coaching. SL has none.
2. SS is run by a coach. SL is run by some guy.
3. SS has a very difficult coaching certification process with very high quality coaches. SL has no coaches.
4. If you need help, you can meet with a SS coach in your area. SL does not.
5. SS has a rich instructional and coaching content on YouTube.
6. SS has a podcast.
7. SS has two main books. The book “Starting Strength” is a broad, but easy enough to understand.
8. SS website regularly publishes new content
9. SS does have an app
10. SS has online coaching
11. After your novice phase, what program will you run? SS has programming for the intermediate to continue their gains

This is the first I've heard of Starting Strength, and just checked it out.

Questions for you:

1. Are you recommending SS as someone who follows it or are you affiliated with them in any way? I'm asking, because I see a pretty price tag on it, so just wondering if this is a serious recommendation or if it's just advertising, because from what I'm reading on there, I am interested in looking into it more.
2. I don't know that I personally would want to commit to that much cost per month for the coaching. So would you still recommend SS over SL without the coaching package?

1.No. But as I approach my thirtieth year in gym, I’ve seen every fad and a lot of stuff in this industry and SS is by far one of the best and most supported out there, especially when compared to SL. I want the OP to succeed, SL does not have the level of support that SS has.

Even if I was, are any of the points I’ve made invalid? I’ve made *NO* appeal for my services.

2. Yes. Whether one purchases additional coaching or not, SS is still a better supported program. Don’t think so, go to their YouTube channel.

I only added the coaching because how many countless posts have you read about “help with my squat/deadlift?” With SS the OP can find a coach to help,them out

SS is a complete, robust program. Why would the novice, who is investing money into a home gym, waste their considerable effort on anything else?

Appreciate the honest response, thanks! I wasn’t insinuating anything bad by my first question, I apologize if you took it that way. I just wanted to make sure the recommendation wasn’t all just an advertisement is all.

I’ve read quite a bit about it today after your post, and I’m going to give it a shot.

sgt1372 wrote: »

shor0814 wrote: »

Updated in the 3rd edition. Too many people substituting rows for no good reason.

First, barbell rows are not a substitute for power cleans. If you use them for this purpose, you have decided to omit a more important exercise in favor of an assistance exercise, an easier movement that does not provide most of the benefits of the more important basic exercise. I say this because of the prevalence of this substitution since the second edition of this book was published. Power cleans are one of the primary constituents of the program, and barbell rows – useful as they may be to intermediate lifters – are not.

Thanks. I think this makes it clear that, if you are doing rows instead of PCs, you are definitely NDTFP as Rip designed and intended the program.

He does keep it relatively PC (and PG) in his book, but he is a bit more vocal in his feelings on his forum.

I self taught myself the power clean by reading his book and watching his videos and videos of myself. I still do them on occasion. I don't think they are that technical compared to a snatch or full clean and jerk.

Oh, you also don't do them until your deadlift is sufficiently strong and you can keep good form so you aren't jumping into them cold.

shor0814 wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

shor0814 wrote: »

Updated in the 3rd edition. Too many people substituting rows for no good reason.

First, barbell rows are not a substitute for power cleans. If you use them for this purpose, you have decided to omit a more important exercise in favor of an assistance exercise, an easier movement that does not provide most of the benefits of the more important basic exercise. I say this because of the prevalence of this substitution since the second edition of this book was published. Power cleans are one of the primary constituents of the program, and barbell rows – useful as they may be to intermediate lifters – are not.

Thanks. I think this makes it clear that, if you are doing rows instead of PCs, you are definitely NDTFP as Rip designed and intended the program.

He does keep it relatively PC (and PG) in his book, but he is a bit more vocal in his feelings on his forum.

I self taught myself the power clean by reading his book and watching his videos and videos of myself. I still do them on occasion. I don't think they are that technical compared to a snatch or full clean and jerk.

Oh, you also don't do them until your deadlift is sufficiently strong and you can keep good form so you aren't jumping into them cold.

Yes, my initial response was based in part on my reading Rip's pithy and pretty rude comments to people asking if it was "ok" to sub rows for PCs on the SS forum.

I too taught myself to do PC's and did them for awhile until I nearly ok'd myself doing them and decided that the risk/reward ratio wasn't in my favor and started to just do rows instead.

However, I always realized that doing that was NDTFP as designed. However, I was age 65 @ the time and have never been engaged in competitive sports, so the value of PCs to me is/was pretty limited.

So, I just do the "Big 4" compound lifts along w/rows, pushups, pullups and dips for assistance. Works well enough for me.

Chieflrg wrote: »

I concur Starting Strength is much better than SL, but the suggestion to drop SL to 3x5 instead of the prescribed 5x5 would be a reasonable adjustment if dead set on SL. The biggest problem I have with SL is the unnecessary volume level for a novice and it's starting point is a waste for most people who can lift heavier with good form. There is alot of wasted time and energy that is lost on a efficiency level..

ditto. A ton of extra volume and extra time in the gym that a lot of people don't have. As a beginner, 3 sets gets pretty significant results and can be done in less than 40 minutes.