Stronglifts 5x5 for beginner
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Let’s see. Substitute highly technical potentially dangerous lift for one that’s less risky but has less carryover to college athletics. Seems like a no brainer.4
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I concur Starting Strength is much better than SL, but the suggestion to drop SL to 3x5 instead of the prescribed 5x5 would be a reasonable adjustment if dead set on SL. The biggest problem I have with SL is the unnecessary volume level for a novice and it's starting point is a waste for most people who can lift heavier with good form. There is alot of wasted time and energy that is lost on a efficiency level.
Rows are perfectly acceptable if cleans cannot be preformed correctly or at the volume.1 -
Wow! Thank you all so much. I think I am going to look into the Starting Strength as well.. and regardless, do 3x5 instead of 5x5 (that did sound like a bit much to me). Going to re-read your comments and do some more research. Your suggestions are all incredibly helpful because I am so new at this!1
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giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »I’d recommend Starting Strength over Stronglifts for these reasons:
1. SS has better coaching. SL has none.
2. SS is run by a coach. SL is run by some guy.
3. SS has a very difficult coaching certification process with very high quality coaches. SL has no coaches.
4. If you need help, you can meet with a SS coach in your area. SL does not.
5. SS has a rich instructional and coaching content on YouTube.
6. SS has a podcast.
7. SS has two main books. The book “Starting Strength” is a broad, but easy enough to understand.
8. SS website regularly publishes new content
9. SS does have an app
10. SS has online coaching
11. After your novice phase, what program will you run? SS has programming for the intermediate to continue their gains
This is the first I've heard of Starting Strength, and just checked it out.
Questions for you:- Are you recommending SS as someone who follows it or are you affiliated with them in any way? I'm asking, because I see a pretty price tag on it, so just wondering if this is a serious recommendation or if it's just advertising, because from what I'm reading on there, I am interested in looking into it more.
- I don't know that I personally would want to commit to that much cost per month for the coaching. So would you still recommend SS over SL without the coaching package?
1.No. But as I approach my thirtieth year in gym, I’ve seen every fad and a lot of stuff in this industry and SS is by far one of the best and most supported out there, especially when compared to SL. I want the OP to succeed, SL does not have the level of support that SS has.
Even if I was, are any of the points I’ve made invalid? I’ve made *NO* appeal for my services.
2. Yes. Whether one purchases additional coaching or not, SS is still a better supported program. Don’t think so, go to their YouTube channel.
I only added the coaching because how many countless posts have you read about “help with my squat/deadlift?” With SS the OP can find a coach to help,them out
SS is a complete, robust program. Why would the novice, who is investing money into a home gym, waste their considerable effort on anything else?
Appreciate the honest response, thanks! I wasn’t insinuating anything bad by my first question, I apologize if you took it that way. I just wanted to make sure the recommendation wasn’t all just an advertisement is all.
I’ve read quite a bit about it today after your post, and I’m going to give it a shot.
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Updated in the 3rd edition. Too many people substituting rows for no good reason.First, barbell rows are not a substitute for power cleans. If you use them for this purpose, you have decided to omit a more important exercise in favor of an assistance exercise, an easier movement that does not provide most of the benefits of the more important basic exercise. I say this because of the prevalence of this substitution since the second edition of this book was published. Power cleans are one of the primary constituents of the program, and barbell rows – useful as they may be to intermediate lifters – are not.
Thanks. I think this makes it clear that, if you are doing rows instead of PCs, you are definitely NDTFP as Rip designed and intended the program.1 -
Updated in the 3rd edition. Too many people substituting rows for no good reason.First, barbell rows are not a substitute for power cleans. If you use them for this purpose, you have decided to omit a more important exercise in favor of an assistance exercise, an easier movement that does not provide most of the benefits of the more important basic exercise. I say this because of the prevalence of this substitution since the second edition of this book was published. Power cleans are one of the primary constituents of the program, and barbell rows – useful as they may be to intermediate lifters – are not.
Thanks. I think this makes it clear that, if you are doing rows instead of PCs, you are definitely NDTFP as Rip designed and intended the program.
He does keep it relatively PC (and PG) in his book, but he is a bit more vocal in his feelings on his forum.
I self taught myself the power clean by reading his book and watching his videos and videos of myself. I still do them on occasion. I don't think they are that technical compared to a snatch or full clean and jerk.
Oh, you also don't do them until your deadlift is sufficiently strong and you can keep good form so you aren't jumping into them cold.0 -
Don't shy away from PCs! They are a great lift to train if you do so safely. It does look like the price for coaching with Starting Strength is a bit high, but it seems you get a lot for it (I've never done the program myself). I just also believe that as a beginner, having someone in person to help is the best way to go for lifting to really nail down technique.0
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Updated in the 3rd edition. Too many people substituting rows for no good reason.First, barbell rows are not a substitute for power cleans. If you use them for this purpose, you have decided to omit a more important exercise in favor of an assistance exercise, an easier movement that does not provide most of the benefits of the more important basic exercise. I say this because of the prevalence of this substitution since the second edition of this book was published. Power cleans are one of the primary constituents of the program, and barbell rows – useful as they may be to intermediate lifters – are not.
Thanks. I think this makes it clear that, if you are doing rows instead of PCs, you are definitely NDTFP as Rip designed and intended the program.
He does keep it relatively PC (and PG) in his book, but he is a bit more vocal in his feelings on his forum.
I self taught myself the power clean by reading his book and watching his videos and videos of myself. I still do them on occasion. I don't think they are that technical compared to a snatch or full clean and jerk.
Oh, you also don't do them until your deadlift is sufficiently strong and you can keep good form so you aren't jumping into them cold.
Yes, my initial response was based in part on my reading Rip's pithy and pretty rude comments to people asking if it was "ok" to sub rows for PCs on the SS forum.
I too taught myself to do PC's and did them for awhile until I nearly ok'd myself doing them and decided that the risk/reward ratio wasn't in my favor and started to just do rows instead.
However, I always realized that doing that was NDTFP as designed. However, I was age 65 @ the time and have never been engaged in competitive sports, so the value of PCs to me is/was pretty limited.
So, I just do the "Big 4" compound lifts along w/rows, pushups, pullups and dips for assistance. Works well enough for me.
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giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »I’d recommend Starting Strength over Stronglifts for these reasons:
1. SS has better coaching. SL has none.
2. SS is run by a coach. SL is run by some guy.
3. SS has a very difficult coaching certification process with very high quality coaches. SL has no coaches.
4. If you need help, you can meet with a SS coach in your area. SL does not.
5. SS has a rich instructional and coaching content on YouTube.
6. SS has a podcast.
7. SS has two main books. The book “Starting Strength” is a broad, but easy enough to understand.
8. SS website regularly publishes new content
9. SS does have an app
10. SS has online coaching
11. After your novice phase, what program will you run? SS has programming for the intermediate to continue their gains
At the very least, I'd recommend buying his book and reading over the sections on form if you aren't going to have a personal trainer to check you. He goes into a lot of detail, and specifically on the common things people do wrong that could cause injury.0 -
I concur Starting Strength is much better than SL, but the suggestion to drop SL to 3x5 instead of the prescribed 5x5 would be a reasonable adjustment if dead set on SL. The biggest problem I have with SL is the unnecessary volume level for a novice and it's starting point is a waste for most people who can lift heavier with good form. There is alot of wasted time and energy that is lost on a efficiency level..
ditto. A ton of extra volume and extra time in the gym that a lot of people don't have. As a beginner, 3 sets gets pretty significant results and can be done in less than 40 minutes.0 -
giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »I’d recommend Starting Strength over Stronglifts for these reasons:
1. SS has better coaching. SL has none.
2. SS is run by a coach. SL is run by some guy.
3. SS has a very difficult coaching certification process with very high quality coaches. SL has no coaches.
4. If you need help, you can meet with a SS coach in your area. SL does not.
5. SS has a rich instructional and coaching content on YouTube.
6. SS has a podcast.
7. SS has two main books. The book “Starting Strength” is a broad, but easy enough to understand.
8. SS website regularly publishes new content
9. SS does have an app
10. SS has online coaching
11. After your novice phase, what program will you run? SS has programming for the intermediate to continue their gains
At the very least, I'd recommend buying his book and reading over the sections on form if you aren't going to have a personal trainer to check you. He goes into a lot of detail, and specifically on the common things people do wrong that could cause injury.
I have yet to see a PT in any commercial gym that could give form advice on the big 3, especially low bar squats. I think you are better off taking videos and posting online for critique. But this is my own experience.1 -
I concur Starting Strength is much better than SL, but the suggestion to drop SL to 3x5 instead of the prescribed 5x5 would be a reasonable adjustment if dead set on SL. The biggest problem I have with SL is the unnecessary volume level for a novice and it's starting point is a waste for most people who can lift heavier with good form. There is alot of wasted time and energy that is lost on a efficiency level..
ditto. A ton of extra volume and extra time in the gym that a lot of people don't have. As a beginner, 3 sets gets pretty significant results and can be done in less than 40 minutes.
Mehdi ("some guy", LOL) has videos of the A & B workouts for Stronglifts. He does them in 30 minutes.
The math is based on 24-50
Starting Strength is great and Mark Rippetoe is a well-known name. But there's absolutely no reason to cut down Stronglifts in order to promote SS. Stronglifts is a proven program with thousands of users; it's been out there for over a decade now. There are videos, message boards, an paid-for community content. It's simple and it works.
Both of these programs are great starting points for anyone who wants to start lifting.
To add a third (geared more for women): Strong Curves, written by Bret Contreras, who is a lifting research guru.
All three of these programs are good starting points for new lifters.
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colors_fade wrote: »I concur Starting Strength is much better than SL, but the suggestion to drop SL to 3x5 instead of the prescribed 5x5 would be a reasonable adjustment if dead set on SL. The biggest problem I have with SL is the unnecessary volume level for a novice and it's starting point is a waste for most people who can lift heavier with good form. There is alot of wasted time and energy that is lost on a efficiency level..
ditto. A ton of extra volume and extra time in the gym that a lot of people don't have. As a beginner, 3 sets gets pretty significant results and can be done in less than 40 minutes.
Mehdi ("some guy", LOL) has videos of the A & B workouts for Stronglifts. He does them in 30 minutes.
The math is based on 24-50
Starting Strength is great and Mark Rippetoe is a well-known name. But there's absolutely no reason to cut down Stronglifts in order to promote SS. Stronglifts is a proven program with thousands of users; it's been out there for over a decade now. There are videos, message boards, an paid-for community content. It's simple and it works.
Both of these programs are great starting points for anyone who wants to start lifting.
To add a third (geared more for women): Strong Curves, written by Bret Contreras, who is a lifting research guru.
All three of these programs are good starting points for new lifters.
They didn't "cut down" Stronglifts in order to promote SS. They gave reasons why they believe SS is better than SL along with reasons why. Nobody said it didn't work, they said that it is unnecessary (wasted) volume for a beginner, there is nothing wrong with that contention.0 -
For anyone who has run SS, do you think it's necessary to use SS coaching? There's a SS gym (atlanta barbell) about 30m from me -- that's a bit further than I would ordinarily travel (there's a lot of gyms near me, admittedly only a small number of them even have squat racks), but I was just wondering if it would be worth it or if it's reasonably likely that i'll be fine with books/the ss videos.0
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fuzzylop72 wrote: »For anyone who has run SS, do you think it's necessary to use SS coaching? There's a SS gym (atlanta barbell) about 30m from me -- that's a bit further than I would ordinarily travel (there's a lot of gyms near me, admittedly only a small number of them even have squat racks), but I was just wondering if it would be worth it or if it's reasonably likely that i'll be fine with books/the ss videos.
I don't think you need to get SS coaching, but I would certainly pay for a couple of days coaching from someone like Rip or a few of his better known coaches just because I think I could improve with their help. Even Alan Thrall has had some huge benefits from being coached by Austin Baraki.
I would start out with the books and videos and see how you feel. Make sure you have videos and post them for others to critique. Biggest thing you can do to improve lifting is have an ego kept in check, an open mind and thick skin.
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So the biggest reason that you guys prefer SS over SL (aside from the coaching that's available) is that SS gives the beginner more time to recover (due to less reps required).
Is this correct?
https://spotmebro.com/starting-strength-vs-stronglifts-5x5/0 -
EDIT:
Yes, I am correct.
Just did a quick google search "stronglifts versus starting strength" and people are saying that 5x5 is too much volume for a newbie; you will just end up stalling quicker.
After I finish rehab, I think I will start SS, but replace the cleans with rows.0 -
I most closely follow the regimen on aworkoutplan. (I also found squats every session to be too much for me, and thought replacing with an upper body pull movement on deadlift day where otherwise missing made sense).0
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EDIT:
Yes, I am correct.
Just did a quick google search "stronglifts versus starting strength" and people are saying that 5x5 is too much volume for a newbie; you will just end up stalling quicker.
After I finish rehab, I think I will start SS, but replace the cleans with rows.
True that is a big one.
Also when it comes to strength training it's more efficient to use the least amount of stress(volume) to force adaptation. If you use more than needed, you eccentially forfeit some of useful stress to continue adaptation that would be useful in post novice programming.
Meaning why use 5x5 as a novice when you can move up in weight at the same speed at 3x5?
Recovery is then easier and one can continue with progress into post novice without stalling as fast.fuzzylop72 wrote: »For anyone who has run SS, do you think it's necessary to use SS coaching? There's a SS gym (atlanta barbell) about 30m from me -- that's a bit further than I would ordinarily travel (there's a lot of gyms near me, admittedly only a small number of them even have squat racks), but I was just wondering if it would be worth it or if it's reasonably likely that i'll be fine with books/the ss videos.
Necessary? No. Worth the investment? In cases where you plan to go for the long haul yes. Although SS have some of the better coaches I feel that you will get better coaching from the guys at Barbellmedicine who have recently parted ways will SS. Feigenbaum and Buraki are two of the best I've seen.0
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