Carbs can kill you
vm007
Posts: 241 Member
Catchy title eh? lol
I just browsing and accidentally stumbled upon Yahoo news and title was catchy.
What do you guys think? I've linked the study and the article.
Study
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext
Article
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/nutrition/if-you-don’t-stop-eating-these-7-high-carb-foods-they-could-kill-you/ss-AAyd2e8?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp
Some people are just plain eating too many carbs, and these are the signs you are one of them. If you overindulge on high carb foods, limiting those carbs can be a life-saver, literally. In one study, people who ate a lot of carbs (more than 60 percent of their daily calories) had a nearly 30 percent greater risk of dying during a seven-plus year period than people eating a low-carb diet.Here's how the researchers figured this out: In their Prospective Urban Rural Epidemiology (PURE) study, they followed people aged 35 to 70 from 18 countries for 7.4 years on average. Participants answered questions about the foods they ate using a standard questionnaire, and researchers categorized them into groups based on their intake of carbs, fats, and protein.During the study period, 5,796 participants died and 4,784 had heart attacks or strokes. Researchers took a look at their diets and found that those who consumed the greatest amount of carbs were more likely to die, when compared with their counterparts who consumed the least. Fat, however, seemed protective. People who ate high-fat diets (about 35 percent of daily energy intake) had a 23 percent lower risk of mortality, and an 18 percent lower risk of stroke compared to low intake group (11 percent energy).
I just browsing and accidentally stumbled upon Yahoo news and title was catchy.
What do you guys think? I've linked the study and the article.
Study
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext
Article
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/nutrition/if-you-don’t-stop-eating-these-7-high-carb-foods-they-could-kill-you/ss-AAyd2e8?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp
Some people are just plain eating too many carbs, and these are the signs you are one of them. If you overindulge on high carb foods, limiting those carbs can be a life-saver, literally. In one study, people who ate a lot of carbs (more than 60 percent of their daily calories) had a nearly 30 percent greater risk of dying during a seven-plus year period than people eating a low-carb diet.Here's how the researchers figured this out: In their Prospective Urban Rural Epidemiology (PURE) study, they followed people aged 35 to 70 from 18 countries for 7.4 years on average. Participants answered questions about the foods they ate using a standard questionnaire, and researchers categorized them into groups based on their intake of carbs, fats, and protein.During the study period, 5,796 participants died and 4,784 had heart attacks or strokes. Researchers took a look at their diets and found that those who consumed the greatest amount of carbs were more likely to die, when compared with their counterparts who consumed the least. Fat, however, seemed protective. People who ate high-fat diets (about 35 percent of daily energy intake) had a 23 percent lower risk of mortality, and an 18 percent lower risk of stroke compared to low intake group (11 percent energy).
30
Replies
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Bad science will surely kill me
29 -
I believe this study has been discussed before and it was pointed out that in some areas, people eat a higher carbohydrate diet due to lack of other foods being available. It's the poor quality of their diet that is contributing to the higher death rate, not simply eating more carbohydrates.
If you look at areas in the world where people live longest, they also often have higher carbohydrate diets.
The issue is the quality of the diet and other health factors that go along with poverty.26 -
kommodevaran wrote: »Bad science will surely kill me
Bad Journalism will kill me. The title of the report in the link talked about high carbs AND high fat. The journalist focused on the enemy de jour....7 -
Who wants to live forever without carbs? Not this guy!12
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I would need to see the questionnaire used in this study. Going to guess that any anomaly in the data is due to the level of bias in the questions.7
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I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO23 -
I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I think there are some models of a higher carbohydrate and fat diet that seem to support good health, like the traditional diet in Crete. Includes lots of olive oil and three times as much bread as we eat in the US, along with lots of vegetables and meats like fish, pork, and lamb.6 -
Water can also be quite lethal....14
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Its the quality of carbs to watch. Good carb rather than Bad carb. not all carbs are created equal like calories. Its more macros which matter.
Please don't make me eat olives or olive oil they are very high in salicylate and that makes me so ill. one persons meat another's poison. (many things are high SS but don't panic, if your body can eliminate them you will be fine.25 -
Its the quality of carbs to watch. Good carb rather than Bad carb. not all carbs are created equal like calories. Its more macros which matter.
Please don't make me eat olives or olive oil they are very high in salicylate and that makes me so ill. one persons meat another's poison. (many things are high SS but don't panic, if your body can eliminate them you will be fine.
Nobody is going to make you eat olives or olive oil, I was merely pointing it out as an example of an apparently healthful diet pattern that is more than 10% fat and 10% carbohydrates. It isn't the *only* apparently healthful diet pattern, just one of many humans have developed.1 -
Its the quality of carbs to watch. Good carb rather than Bad carb. not all carbs are created equal like calories. Its more macros which matter.
Please don't make me eat olives or olive oil they are very high in salicylate and that makes me so ill. one persons meat another's poison. (many things are high SS but don't panic, if your body can eliminate them you will be fine.
As you point out in your postscript, Good vs bad is dependent upon the patient and not a universal rule.6 -
correlation doesn't equal causation
See awesome examples of REAL statistics that correlate: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
This one is my favorite:
20 -
amymoreorless wrote: »correlation doesn't equal causation
See awesome examples or REAL statistics that correlate: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
This one is my favorite:
LMAO2 -
I don't know. It takes me a lot of alcohol to get through most Cage films. If I were near a pool, I might fall in and drown, too. Ergo, there would be a causative effect.
14 -
I don't know. It takes me a lot of alcohol to get through most Cage films. If I were near a pool, I might fall in and drown, too. Ergo, there would be a causative effect.
What. PuLeas of the 96 carefully selected films listed below name a bad one....
211
8mm
A Score to Settle
Adaptation
Amos & Andrew
Army of One
Arsenal
Astro Boy
Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans
Bangkok Dangerous
Between Worlds
Birdy[2]
Bringing Out the Dead
Captain Corelli's Mandolin
Christmas Carol: The Movie
City of Angels[2]
Con Air
Deadfall
Dog Eat Dog
Drive Angry
Dying of the Light
Face/Off
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Fire Birds
G-Force
Ghost Rider
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
Gone in 60 Seconds
Grindhouse
Guarding Tess
Honeymoon in Vegas
Inconceivable
It Could Happen to You
Joe
Kick-*kitten*
Kill Chain
Kiss of Death
Knowing
Leaving Las Vegas[2]
Left Behind[2]
Looking Glass
Lord of War
Mandy
Matchstick Men
Mom and Dad
Moonstruck[2]
National Treasure
National Treasure: Book of Secrets
Never on Tuesday
Next
Outcast
Pay the Ghost
Peggy Sue Got Married[2]
Primal
Prisoners of the Ghostland
Racing with the Moon[2]
Rage[2]
Raising Arizona[2]
Red Rock West
Rumble Fish[2]
Running with the Devil
Season of the Witch
Seeking Justice
Snake Eyes
Snowden
Sonny
Stolen
Teen Titans Go! To the Movies
The Ant Bully
The Boy in Blue
The Cotton Club[2]
The Croods
The Croods 2
The Family Man
The Frozen Ground[2]
The Humanity Bureau
The Rock[2]
The Runner
The Sorcerer's Apprentice
The Trust
The Weather Man
The Wicker Man
Time to Kill
Trapped in Paradise
Trespass
USS Indianapolis: Men of Courage
Valley Girl
Vampire's Kiss
Vengeance: A Love Story
Wild at Heart[2]
Windtalkers
World Trade Center
Zandalee
Ok too easy name the good ones....
6 -
That's hard.... Raising Arizona is it.janejellyroll wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I think there are some models of a higher carbohydrate and fat diet that seem to support good health, like the traditional diet in Crete. Includes lots of olive oil and three times as much bread as we eat in the US, along with lots of vegetables and meats like fish, pork, and lamb.
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that their diet is lower in refined and highly processed carbs... and lower in industrial vegetable oils too. Whole foods seems to help. Whole foods in a very LCHF or HCLF seems to be protective. JMO.4 -
So can rhinos, so don't eat a whole one!2
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That's hard.... Raising Arizona is it.janejellyroll wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I think there are some models of a higher carbohydrate and fat diet that seem to support good health, like the traditional diet in Crete. Includes lots of olive oil and three times as much bread as we eat in the US, along with lots of vegetables and meats like fish, pork, and lamb.
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that their diet is lower in refined and highly processed carbs... and lower in industrial vegetable oils too. Whole foods seems to help. Whole foods in a very LCHF or HCLF seems to be protective. JMO.
Yes, their diet is lower in refined grains and olive oil is the only vegetable oil that is regularly consumed. But my point is that it isn't low carbohydrate or low fat, yet there is good evidence that it supports health. I'm not convinced we need to keep any macronutrient at a low or very low level in order to thrive.4 -
There should be a tax on some words. It might keep "journalists" and bloggers from using words like "study" and "research" in such a reckless manner.10
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https://metro.co.uk/2014/09/18/two-women-crushed-to-death-by-huge-truck-load-of-potatoes-4873635/
I guess carbs CAN kill you. But not typically.14 -
The easiest thing to prove is that life precedes death, and is correlated to it.
Since this is derived from the PURE study, it's worth some consideration.
What's it say?
Persons with >60% of their calories from carbs were more likely to die.
Persons with >35% of their calories from fats were less likely to die.
Persons are certain to die.
Does it tell me to care? This is less informative to me than my own eyes. I have observed the relatively early deaths of my wife's relatives who exceedingly enjoyed their sugar water. I have observed the comparatively long lives of my relatives who rarely indulged in sugar water. That's still not proof of anything. There's all the stuff about activity, BMI, exercise, genetics and all that other stuff. They are still dead.5 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »https://metro.co.uk/2014/09/18/two-women-crushed-to-death-by-huge-truck-load-of-potatoes-4873635/
I guess carbs CAN kill you. But not typically.
But, were they watching a Nicolas Cage movie while driving before being crushed to death by carbs?3 -
I have heard about a lot of people getting killed by carbs. Specifically, fiber seems to be bad. Like, trees during a thunderstorm. When they fall on top of you. Those carbs are the WORSE7
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »
Since this is derived from the PURE study, it's worth some consideration.
FYI @JeromeBarry1 Here is a Harvard School of Public Health article explaining the methodology issues and problems with PURE the study. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure-study-makes-headlines-but-the-conclusions-are-misleading/0 -
amymoreorless wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »
Since this is derived from the PURE study, it's worth some consideration.
FYI @JeromeBarry1 Here is a Harvard School of Public Health article explaining the methodology issues and problems with PURE the study. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure-study-makes-headlines-but-the-conclusions-are-misleading/
That's a good summary. This is the analysis that I remembered reading last time this was discussed:
"Such high carbohydrate intake may indicate a ‘poverty diet’. Most study participants located in low-income countries subsisted almost entirely on carbohydrates, “especially from refined sources.” In Bangladesh for example, the authors list white rice as the top contributor of not only carbohydrates, but also protein and total fat. A ‘poverty diet,’ which is common in poor rural areas, is also typically high in sodium and low in animal products and vegetable oils. In this situation, it is extremely challenging if not impossible to separate the effects of diet from poverty and undernutrition."5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »That's hard.... Raising Arizona is it.janejellyroll wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I think there are some models of a higher carbohydrate and fat diet that seem to support good health, like the traditional diet in Crete. Includes lots of olive oil and three times as much bread as we eat in the US, along with lots of vegetables and meats like fish, pork, and lamb.
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that their diet is lower in refined and highly processed carbs... and lower in industrial vegetable oils too. Whole foods seems to help. Whole foods in a very LCHF or HCLF seems to be protective. JMO.
Yes, their diet is lower in refined grains and olive oil is the only vegetable oil that is regularly consumed. But my point is that it isn't low carbohydrate or low fat, yet there is good evidence that it supports health. I'm not convinced we need to keep any macronutrient at a low or very low level in order to thrive.
I don't think everyone needs to keep carbs or fat super low. I think it is ideal for some people and less likely to lead to a state of poor health.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »That's hard.... Raising Arizona is it.janejellyroll wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I think there are some models of a higher carbohydrate and fat diet that seem to support good health, like the traditional diet in Crete. Includes lots of olive oil and three times as much bread as we eat in the US, along with lots of vegetables and meats like fish, pork, and lamb.
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that their diet is lower in refined and highly processed carbs... and lower in industrial vegetable oils too. Whole foods seems to help. Whole foods in a very LCHF or HCLF seems to be protective. JMO.
Yes, their diet is lower in refined grains and olive oil is the only vegetable oil that is regularly consumed. But my point is that it isn't low carbohydrate or low fat, yet there is good evidence that it supports health. I'm not convinced we need to keep any macronutrient at a low or very low level in order to thrive.
I don't think everyone needs to keep carbs or fat super low. I think it is ideal for some people and less likely to lead to a state of poor health.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's less likely to lead to a state of poor health. There's nothing inherently harmful about a diet where neither fat or carbohydrates are low. There are traditional diet patterns that appear to support good health that fall into that category.
Are there unhealthful ways to eat moderate/high carbohydrates and fat? Absolutely. But there are unhealthful ways to eat within any macronutrient range.3 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »I don't know. It takes me a lot of alcohol to get through most Cage films. If I were near a pool, I might fall in and drown, too. Ergo, there would be a causative effect.
What. PuLeas of the 96 carefully selected films listed below name a bad one....
211
8mm
A Score to Settle
Adaptation
Amos & Andrew
Army of One
Arsenal
Astro Boy
Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans
Bangkok Dangerous
Between Worlds
Birdy[2]
Bringing Out the Dead
Captain Corelli's Mandolin
Christmas Carol: The Movie
City of Angels[2]
Con Air
Deadfall
Dog Eat Dog
Drive Angry
Dying of the Light
Face/Off
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Fire Birds
G-Force
Ghost Rider
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
Gone in 60 Seconds
Grindhouse
Guarding Tess
Honeymoon in Vegas
Inconceivable
It Could Happen to You
Joe
Kick-*kitten*
Kill Chain
Kiss of Death
Knowing
Leaving Las Vegas[2]
Left Behind[2]
Looking Glass
Lord of War
Mandy
Matchstick Men
Mom and Dad
Moonstruck[2]
National Treasure
National Treasure: Book of Secrets
Never on Tuesday
Next
Outcast
Pay the Ghost
Peggy Sue Got Married[2]
Primal
Prisoners of the Ghostland
Racing with the Moon[2]
Rage[2]
Raising Arizona[2]
Red Rock West
Rumble Fish[2]
Running with the Devil
Season of the Witch
Seeking Justice
Snake Eyes
Snowden
Sonny
Stolen
Teen Titans Go! To the Movies
The Ant Bully
The Boy in Blue
The Cotton Club[2]
The Croods
The Croods 2
The Family Man
The Frozen Ground[2]
The Humanity Bureau
The Rock[2]
The Runner
The Sorcerer's Apprentice
The Trust
The Weather Man
The Wicker Man
Time to Kill
Trapped in Paradise
Trespass
USS Indianapolis: Men of Courage
Valley Girl
Vampire's Kiss
Vengeance: A Love Story
Wild at Heart[2]
Windtalkers
World Trade Center
Zandalee
Ok too easy name the good ones....
I was actually a Cage fan...
...until Snake Eyes.
That's when things went downhill for me.
2 -
I have heard about a lot of people getting killed by carbs. Specifically, fiber seems to be bad. Like, trees during a thunderstorm. When they fall on top of you. Those carbs are the WORSE
Would that be carb related or water??? The killer chemical, dihydrogen oxide is known to be deadly because it's a chemical, and they are bad for you.1 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Bad science will surely kill me
Bad Journalism will kill me. The title of the report in the link talked about high carbs AND high fat. The journalist focused on the enemy de jour....
I'm sure if it was the 80's the title of the article would have been 'Saturated Fat can kill you'!1
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