Carbs can kill you
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The easiest thing to prove is that life precedes death, and is correlated to it.
Since this is derived from the PURE study, it's worth some consideration.
What's it say?
Persons with >60% of their calories from carbs were more likely to die.
Persons with >35% of their calories from fats were less likely to die.
Persons are certain to die.
Does it tell me to care? This is less informative to me than my own eyes. I have observed the relatively early deaths of my wife's relatives who exceedingly enjoyed their sugar water. I have observed the comparatively long lives of my relatives who rarely indulged in sugar water. That's still not proof of anything. There's all the stuff about activity, BMI, exercise, genetics and all that other stuff. They are still dead.5 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »https://metro.co.uk/2014/09/18/two-women-crushed-to-death-by-huge-truck-load-of-potatoes-4873635/
I guess carbs CAN kill you. But not typically.
But, were they watching a Nicolas Cage movie while driving before being crushed to death by carbs?3 -
I have heard about a lot of people getting killed by carbs. Specifically, fiber seems to be bad. Like, trees during a thunderstorm. When they fall on top of you. Those carbs are the WORSE7
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »
Since this is derived from the PURE study, it's worth some consideration.
FYI @JeromeBarry1 Here is a Harvard School of Public Health article explaining the methodology issues and problems with PURE the study. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure-study-makes-headlines-but-the-conclusions-are-misleading/0 -
amymoreorless wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »
Since this is derived from the PURE study, it's worth some consideration.
FYI @JeromeBarry1 Here is a Harvard School of Public Health article explaining the methodology issues and problems with PURE the study. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure-study-makes-headlines-but-the-conclusions-are-misleading/
That's a good summary. This is the analysis that I remembered reading last time this was discussed:
"Such high carbohydrate intake may indicate a ‘poverty diet’. Most study participants located in low-income countries subsisted almost entirely on carbohydrates, “especially from refined sources.” In Bangladesh for example, the authors list white rice as the top contributor of not only carbohydrates, but also protein and total fat. A ‘poverty diet,’ which is common in poor rural areas, is also typically high in sodium and low in animal products and vegetable oils. In this situation, it is extremely challenging if not impossible to separate the effects of diet from poverty and undernutrition."5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »That's hard.... Raising Arizona is it.janejellyroll wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I think there are some models of a higher carbohydrate and fat diet that seem to support good health, like the traditional diet in Crete. Includes lots of olive oil and three times as much bread as we eat in the US, along with lots of vegetables and meats like fish, pork, and lamb.
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that their diet is lower in refined and highly processed carbs... and lower in industrial vegetable oils too. Whole foods seems to help. Whole foods in a very LCHF or HCLF seems to be protective. JMO.
Yes, their diet is lower in refined grains and olive oil is the only vegetable oil that is regularly consumed. But my point is that it isn't low carbohydrate or low fat, yet there is good evidence that it supports health. I'm not convinced we need to keep any macronutrient at a low or very low level in order to thrive.
I don't think everyone needs to keep carbs or fat super low. I think it is ideal for some people and less likely to lead to a state of poor health.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »That's hard.... Raising Arizona is it.janejellyroll wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I think there are some models of a higher carbohydrate and fat diet that seem to support good health, like the traditional diet in Crete. Includes lots of olive oil and three times as much bread as we eat in the US, along with lots of vegetables and meats like fish, pork, and lamb.
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that their diet is lower in refined and highly processed carbs... and lower in industrial vegetable oils too. Whole foods seems to help. Whole foods in a very LCHF or HCLF seems to be protective. JMO.
Yes, their diet is lower in refined grains and olive oil is the only vegetable oil that is regularly consumed. But my point is that it isn't low carbohydrate or low fat, yet there is good evidence that it supports health. I'm not convinced we need to keep any macronutrient at a low or very low level in order to thrive.
I don't think everyone needs to keep carbs or fat super low. I think it is ideal for some people and less likely to lead to a state of poor health.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's less likely to lead to a state of poor health. There's nothing inherently harmful about a diet where neither fat or carbohydrates are low. There are traditional diet patterns that appear to support good health that fall into that category.
Are there unhealthful ways to eat moderate/high carbohydrates and fat? Absolutely. But there are unhealthful ways to eat within any macronutrient range.3 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »I don't know. It takes me a lot of alcohol to get through most Cage films. If I were near a pool, I might fall in and drown, too. Ergo, there would be a causative effect.
What. PuLeas of the 96 carefully selected films listed below name a bad one....
211
8mm
A Score to Settle
Adaptation
Amos & Andrew
Army of One
Arsenal
Astro Boy
Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans
Bangkok Dangerous
Between Worlds
Birdy[2]
Bringing Out the Dead
Captain Corelli's Mandolin
Christmas Carol: The Movie
City of Angels[2]
Con Air
Deadfall
Dog Eat Dog
Drive Angry
Dying of the Light
Face/Off
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Fire Birds
G-Force
Ghost Rider
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
Gone in 60 Seconds
Grindhouse
Guarding Tess
Honeymoon in Vegas
Inconceivable
It Could Happen to You
Joe
Kick-*kitten*
Kill Chain
Kiss of Death
Knowing
Leaving Las Vegas[2]
Left Behind[2]
Looking Glass
Lord of War
Mandy
Matchstick Men
Mom and Dad
Moonstruck[2]
National Treasure
National Treasure: Book of Secrets
Never on Tuesday
Next
Outcast
Pay the Ghost
Peggy Sue Got Married[2]
Primal
Prisoners of the Ghostland
Racing with the Moon[2]
Rage[2]
Raising Arizona[2]
Red Rock West
Rumble Fish[2]
Running with the Devil
Season of the Witch
Seeking Justice
Snake Eyes
Snowden
Sonny
Stolen
Teen Titans Go! To the Movies
The Ant Bully
The Boy in Blue
The Cotton Club[2]
The Croods
The Croods 2
The Family Man
The Frozen Ground[2]
The Humanity Bureau
The Rock[2]
The Runner
The Sorcerer's Apprentice
The Trust
The Weather Man
The Wicker Man
Time to Kill
Trapped in Paradise
Trespass
USS Indianapolis: Men of Courage
Valley Girl
Vampire's Kiss
Vengeance: A Love Story
Wild at Heart[2]
Windtalkers
World Trade Center
Zandalee
Ok too easy name the good ones....
I was actually a Cage fan...
...until Snake Eyes.
That's when things went downhill for me.
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I have heard about a lot of people getting killed by carbs. Specifically, fiber seems to be bad. Like, trees during a thunderstorm. When they fall on top of you. Those carbs are the WORSE
Would that be carb related or water??? The killer chemical, dihydrogen oxide is known to be deadly because it's a chemical, and they are bad for you.1 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Bad science will surely kill me
Bad Journalism will kill me. The title of the report in the link talked about high carbs AND high fat. The journalist focused on the enemy de jour....
I'm sure if it was the 80's the title of the article would have been 'Saturated Fat can kill you'!1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »So can rhinos, so don't eat a whole one!
I was told that if you believe in yourself you can do anything. soooooo...... yeah. LOL!!!2 -
Two things:
F***
and
You
Now pass the pasta and garlic bread.4 -
This is an interesting study. I know people here are making fun of it, but I find it compelling.
This is a large (135,335 participants) cohort study, meaning the subjects were followed over a period of years - in this case, 10 years. This lends to the validity of this study, as opposed to a small, brief study with little time allowed for follow-up.
The point of this study was to assess the relationship between carbohydrates and fats, and cardiovascular disease and mortality across all socioeconomic backgrounds. Thus, 18 different countries of a variety of income levels were studied. Prior studies seemed to mainly include high-income countries such as the US and Canada. Therefore, socioeconomic factors were considered in this study and WERE adjusted for.
Dietary recall data were collected, along with physical activity levels and health/socioeconomic history. The data collection of food intake went like this (https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2113864408/2084408033/mmc1.pdf):
"Participants were asked 'during the past year, on average, how often have you consumed the following foods or drinks' and the list of food items was given." The options "ranged from never to more than 6 times/day... To compute daily nutrient intake, country-specific food databases listing nutrient values for each food item listed in the [questionnaire] were constructed." From there, estimated daily intakes for each participant were formulated. Data regarding health events and mortality rates were also collected.
The study found that "a high carbohydrate intake was associated with an adverse impact on total mortality, whereas fats including saturated and unsaturated fatty acids were associated with lower risk of total mortality and stroke. We did not observe any detrimental effect of fat intakes on cardiovascular disease events." Here are graphs of the data: https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2113864408/2084408029/gr1.jpg
Under the "Acknowledgement" section, you can see who funded the study. It does not appear to have been biased in any direction.
As with any study, there are limitations. Many studies are completed via questionnaire, and a limitation here is always that you are relying on patient recall and honesty for your data.
It's a well-done study, though. However, I am but a lowly nurse practitioner student and I'm sure there are other experts out there who can provide more insight. In any case, it is very interesting. Thank you for sharing, OP.4 -
I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I should just keel over and die then with my macro split of moderate carbs, fat and protein (40%, 35% & 25%). It is amazing that I am in great health according to my bloods as I am not low or high in anything.3 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I should just keel over and die then with my macro split of moderate carbs, fat and protein (40%, 35% & 25%). It is amazing that I am in great health according to my bloods as I am not low or high in anything.
So you eat a diet high in refined and highly processed carbs and high fats - that would imply lower protein - and are not active, eh?
Or you could be lucky.
11 -
I got a cheese doodle caught in my throat once. Almost choked. Can confirm post subject.5
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This is an interesting study. I know people here are making fun of it, but I find it compelling.
This is a large (135,335 participants) cohort study, meaning the subjects were followed over a period of years - in this case, 10 years. This lends to the validity of this study, as opposed to a small, brief study with little time allowed for follow-up.
The point of this study was to assess the relationship between carbohydrates and fats, and cardiovascular disease and mortality across all socioeconomic backgrounds. Thus, 18 different countries of a variety of income levels were studied. Prior studies seemed to mainly include high-income countries such as the US and Canada. Therefore, socioeconomic factors were considered in this study and WERE adjusted for.
Dietary recall data were collected, along with physical activity levels and health/socioeconomic history. The data collection of food intake went like this (https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2113864408/2084408033/mmc1.pdf):
"Participants were asked 'during the past year, on average, how often have you consumed the following foods or drinks' and the list of food items was given." The options "ranged from never to more than 6 times/day... To compute daily nutrient intake, country-specific food databases listing nutrient values for each food item listed in the [questionnaire] were constructed." From there, estimated daily intakes for each participant were formulated. Data regarding health events and mortality rates were also collected.
The study found that "a high carbohydrate intake was associated with an adverse impact on total mortality, whereas fats including saturated and unsaturated fatty acids were associated with lower risk of total mortality and stroke. We did not observe any detrimental effect of fat intakes on cardiovascular disease events." Here are graphs of the data: https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2113864408/2084408029/gr1.jpg
Under the "Acknowledgement" section, you can see who funded the study. It does not appear to have been biased in any direction.
As with any study, there are limitations. Many studies are completed via questionnaire, and a limitation here is always that you are relying on patient recall and honesty for your data.
It's a well-done study, though. However, I am but a lowly nurse practitioner student and I'm sure there are other experts out there who can provide more insight. In any case, it is very interesting. Thank you for sharing, OP.
@beccapax The research was accurate. The conclusion was misleading. There were too many factors that were not taken into consideration. Hence my statement, "correlation does not equal causation". Many of the study participants lived in impoverished countries. For example, some of the participants studied lived in Bangladesh. Bangladesh has extremely high rates of poverty, malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies. The study also does not take into account living / working conditions, education level, access to healthcare, and environmental pollution. All of these factors have an effect on a persons total health.6 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I should just keel over and die then with my macro split of moderate carbs, fat and protein (40%, 35% & 25%). It is amazing that I am in great health according to my bloods as I am not low or high in anything.
So you eat a diet high in refined and highly processed carbs and high fats - that would imply lower protein - and are not active, eh?
Or you could be lucky.
I think averaging over 20,00 steps a day, consuming more than a 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, consuming hardly any refined carbs (fruit, vegetable and wholegrains is mostly it), and a diet low in saturated fats while being high in unsaturated fats indicates that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to me and my lifestyle.8 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »I think LCHF seems protective as does HCLF. It's the inbetween of higher carbs (mainly refined and highly processed) AND higher levels of fat that seems to be the cause of the (health and weight) problem for many... mainly those who are not active.
I don't think it comes down to NO carbs or no fat, but keeping one or the other below around 10% seems helpful, ie. Ornish or Atkins
JMO
I should just keel over and die then with my macro split of moderate carbs, fat and protein (40%, 35% & 25%). It is amazing that I am in great health according to my bloods as I am not low or high in anything.
So you eat a diet high in refined and highly processed carbs and high fats - that would imply lower protein - and are not active, eh?
Or you could be lucky.
I think averaging over 20,00 steps a day, consuming more than a 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, consuming hardly any refined carbs (fruit, vegetable and wholegrains is mostly it), and a diet low in saturated fats while being high in unsaturated fats indicates that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to me and my lifestyle.
That's what I meant... you are not high refined and processed carb, high fat and lower protein, nor are you inactive. You don't fit the population that I was referring to at all, so giving yourself as an example to prove it incorrect does not fit.2 -
isn't that the same journal that published vaccines causing autism? lol2
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