Low Carb Diet (but not as much as Keto)
adam212121
Posts: 12 Member
Hi all,
I have been reading about Keto and crunching the numbers. Although I don't think I can go as low as they recommend for carbs, I do think making a substantial reduction in carbs is a good plan for me.
The interesting thing from what i've read with Keto is you can eat a lot as long as it is low carb, high fat food.
If I don't go as low as the recommended carbs in this plan, can I still eat quite a bit of low carb/high fat food? Do I need to watch out for it a bit more than someone in keto?
Hope my questions make sense, thanks!
I have been reading about Keto and crunching the numbers. Although I don't think I can go as low as they recommend for carbs, I do think making a substantial reduction in carbs is a good plan for me.
The interesting thing from what i've read with Keto is you can eat a lot as long as it is low carb, high fat food.
If I don't go as low as the recommended carbs in this plan, can I still eat quite a bit of low carb/high fat food? Do I need to watch out for it a bit more than someone in keto?
Hope my questions make sense, thanks!
8
Replies
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While their is always some crazy woo-woo out there on the internet telling you something is a magic pill, the fact is that your calorie goal will be the same regardless of what you eat. If you'd like to lose an avg of 1 lb per week, you need to have an avg daily deficit of 500 calories.
Low carb could be a great choice for you, if you are satiated by fat and/or protein or if you find carbs don't fill you up. Macros are personal preference, so just pick a carb number you think you can stick with, monitor your results and how you feel day to day, and tweak from there.
Good luck!10 -
You'll be able to eat much more than someone at the most extreme end of keto because you will have the option for more vegetables. "A lot" is subjective, but talking purely in terms of numbers, keto has to be the diet that has the smallest volume of food for the same calories simply because fat is very calorie dense. You need to watch out regardless of the diet you follow, because if you overeat you gain, even on keto.
Log your food faithfully and accurately and see what the most comfortable level of carbs is for you and what food choices you find enjoyable. As long as you are within calories consistently, you will lose weight on low carb or any other style of eating.10 -
Why does it matter to eat no or low carbs? Carbs don't make a single difference when it comes to weight loss. Calories do. I eat a high amount of carbs on my cut and I still experience weight loss, because I have my calories in check. As others have said, if going low carbs helps you stay satiated, then do it.13
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I have been reading about Keto and crunching the numbers. Although I don't think I can go as low as they recommend for carbs, I do think making a substantial reduction in carbs is a good plan for me.
Possibly it can be. It all depends on your reasons for doing it and your expectations. Low carb/ keto is a good plan for some folks.The interesting thing from what i've read with Keto is you can eat a lot as long as it is low carb, high fat food.
Not so. It is still all about managing calories. Fat is very calories dense. So, no, you can't. Protein and fiber can be satiating though. It all depends on what is included in what you eat.If I don't go as low as the recommended carbs in this plan, can I still eat quite a bit of low carb/high fat food? Do I need to watch out for it a bit more than someone in keto?
This statement causes me suspect your desire to do low carb/ keto is for the wrong reasons. It doesn't really allow you to eat "quite a bit". If you are more satiated by fat and protein, as kimny72 said above, then you will be eating in a way the will cause you to be more satisfied and less hungry. This should allow you to manage calories better. Low carb/ keto in general is somewhat beneficial in curbing hunger signalling and cravings according to some recent studies.
But to think that you can eat "quite a bit" this way isn't really accurate. You sound like a "volume" eater to me. The best combo for a volume eater is usually high protein and high fiber carbs.
Bear in mind that there is no metabolic advantage for low carb/ keto in terms of fat loss, despite a lot of the woo publicity out there right now. Many studies have been conducted and no advantage has been shown over any other method of weight loss with calories and protein held the same.
The main reasons to do low carb/keto are preference of eating style, curbing hunger and cravings or to improve something like insulin resistance. Eating a good bit is not one of those reasons.
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adam212121 wrote: »Hi all,
Do I need to watch out for it a bit more than someone in keto?
Yes, absolutely you would need to be more mindful.
Many find eating lower carb and higher fat and protein satiating in general but the eat-as-much-as-you-want advice typically associated with low carb plans is specifically targeted towards people in ketosis. Ketosis matters for the appetite suppressing effect.
What tends to happen is people will naturally gravitate towards eating less often because they're not hungry - many eat 2 meals a day or a couple of snacks & 1 proper meal. Or their calories fluctuate and they have low & high days that balance each other out. So even though it feels like you're eating so much indulgent food and as much as you want of it, when you add it all up, you're eating in a deficit.
Without the appetite suppressing effects of sustained ketosis (and for some even if they are in ketosis) you'll want/need to track something else as well - counting calories or weighing daily are common to make sure the scale is moving in the right direction. Best wishes.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »adam212121 wrote: »Hi all,
Do I need to watch out for it a bit more than someone in keto?
Yes, absolutely you would need to be more mindful.
Many find eating lower carb and higher fat and protein satiating in general but the eat-as-much-as-you-want advice typically associated with low carb plans is specifically targeted towards people in ketosis. Ketosis matters for the appetite suppressing effect.
What tends to happen is people will naturally gravitate towards eating less often because they're not hungry - many eat 2 meals a day or a couple of snacks & 1 proper meal. Or their calories fluctuate and they have low & high days that balance each other out. So even though it feels like you're eating so much indulgent food and as much as you want of it, when you add it all up, you're eating in a deficit.
Without the appetite suppressing effects of sustained ketosis (and for some even if they are in ketosis) you'll want/need to track something else as well - counting calories or weighing daily are common to make sure the scale is moving in the right direction. Best wishes.
Just to add, in the meta-analysis I read, the appetite suppressing effects begin as carbs are lowered. They may be more dramatic while in keto but there is at least some benefit for many to bring carbs down to a range of 100gr to 150gr per day for curbing hunger and cravings.
I also think that for many, not all, tracking calories even while in ketosis is advisable. Some can eat intuitively and do fine in the way you suggest, others can eat more than their maintenance in keto just as easily as in any other diet plan. The hunger suppression certainly has the potential to make it easier for some to eat intuitively when doing keto.7 -
I agree that it is probably a good idea to keep an eye on calories to make sure you aren't eating more than you expected. Some experience the appetite suppressing effects of lowered carbs at 100-150g, but others find they need to go lower - I personally need to be under 30g it seems. As far as I can tell, the lower carb you go, the more one will experience appetite suppression. YMMV.
Another reason to count calories a bit at first is that low carb meals may have less volume than higher carb meals. A bowl of cereal may be larger than a couple of eggs. Some find it helpful to check.
I've done both. I've counted calories and just eaten when hungry. I never had to curtail my calories when I keep my carbs at a good level for me. When losing, on most days I naturally want to eat around 1500 kcal when my carbs are low. When I went too high, I started regaining.
Good luck.6 -
Thanks all - good to hear a bit more on this. I met someone who did the keto thing and it worked really well for them. However, I don't think the full plan would work for me.
My problem (I think) is I eat too much and never feel full. I constantly snack, etc. I feel like I have way to many carbs. I'm guessing if I kept watch of my calories then my carb count would probably go down as well. But ya for me, ideally i'd like to find meals/snacks/lifestyle that doesn't make me think I need food. Obviously some of this is psychological, but at the same point it would be nice to feel fuller after eating.
Thanks!0 -
adam212121 wrote: »Thanks all - good to hear a bit more on this. I met someone who did the keto thing and it worked really well for them. However, I don't think the full plan would work for me.
My problem (I think) is I eat too much and never feel full. I constantly snack, etc. I feel like I have way to many carbs. I'm guessing if I kept watch of my calories then my carb count would probably go down as well. But ya for me, ideally i'd like to find meals/snacks/lifestyle that doesn't make me think I need food. Obviously some of this is psychological, but at the same point it would be nice to feel fuller after eating.
Thanks!
Sounds like you are a volume eater like many of us, which means a low carb or keto plan would be terrible since it is focused on fats which are expensive. What you need to do, is focus on proteins, fiber and than lower cal high volume carbs. There is a volume eaters thread in the food and diet section.6 -
adam212121 wrote: »Hi all,
I have been reading about Keto and crunching the numbers. Although I don't think I can go as low as they recommend for carbs, I do think making a substantial reduction in carbs is a good plan for me.
The interesting thing from what i've read with Keto is you can eat a lot as long as it is low carb, high fat food.
If I don't go as low as the recommended carbs in this plan, can I still eat quite a bit of low carb/high fat food? Do I need to watch out for it a bit more than someone in keto?
Hope my questions make sense, thanks!
You have to be in a calorie deficit (consuming less calories than you expend) to lose weight, no matter what your macro split is. Keto is not exempt from the laws of energy balance (nor is any other diet/way of eating/way of life/journey/whatever).
The problem with "eating quite a bit" on a ketogenic diet is that fat contains 225% of the calories per gram of either carbs or protein (carbs/protein have 4 calories/gram, fat has 9 calories/gram) - so if you eat a lot of high-fat foods, you can pile on the calories in a hurry. For a volume eater, you'd probably be better served following psuLemon's advice - focus on proteins, fiber and lower cal/high volume carbs.
If you find that fats are highly satiating to you and you resultantly eat less calories, maybe keto will be a good fit (it apparently works that way for some people). But no matter how you slice it, it all comes down to calories.5 -
adam212121 wrote: »Thanks all - good to hear a bit more on this. I met someone who did the keto thing and it worked really well for them. However, I don't think the full plan would work for me.
My problem (I think) is I eat too much and never feel full. I constantly snack, etc. I feel like I have way to many carbs. I'm guessing if I kept watch of my calories then my carb count would probably go down as well. But ya for me, ideally i'd like to find meals/snacks/lifestyle that doesn't make me think I need food. Obviously some of this is psychological, but at the same point it would be nice to feel fuller after eating.
Thanks!
That was true for me too before I lowered carbs. I was eating every 2-3 hours or I was hangry, tired, and shaky. Cutting carbs started to help that within a few days. After a couple of weeks of low carb I was having some success so I went lower to see if it would get even better. It did. It doesn't for everyone.
Self experimentation is the only way to figure out what might work best for you. Just make sure you increase sodium/salt as you lower carbs to avoid symptoms of low electrolytes like fatigue, headaches, brain fog, and weakness.
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Also note that you can't snack as often on keto. If you do, you will end up with even tinier main meals because you will not have enough calories for decent meals. Some people experience reduced hunger when they lower carbs so they don't feel the need to snack often. Until you discover through your own experience if you're one of these people, try to tightly control your snacking behavior.5
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Also note that you can't snack as often on keto. If you do, you will end up with even tinier main meals because you will not have enough calories for decent meals. Some people experience reduced hunger when they lower carbs so they don't feel the need to snack often. Until you discover through your own experience if you're one of these people, try to tightly control your snacking behavior.
The bolder is not true. You can snack in a ketogenic diet. You could snack half the day if you wished to because you have the same calories available to you as when not eating keto.
I do agree that many choose not to snack if the experience reduced hunger.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Also note that you can't snack as often on keto. If you do, you will end up with even tinier main meals because you will not have enough calories for decent meals. Some people experience reduced hunger when they lower carbs so they don't feel the need to snack often. Until you discover through your own experience if you're one of these people, try to tightly control your snacking behavior.
The bolder is not true. You can snack in a ketogenic diet. You could snack half the day if you wished to because you have the same calories available to you as when not eating keto.
I do agree that many choose not to snack if the experience reduced hunger.
OP is under the impression that it's okay to constantly eat high fat foods in addition to main meals. To have little keto nibbles instead of meals or instead of some of the meals is one way to do it, but since keto is a reduced volume diet already, I would hate to see how main meals look like on the same calories if a significant number of calories is spent on snacks. If snack calories are not tightly regulated, and you eat your typical food volume on top of that during meals, the potential for overeating is high, at least until the person discovers how their satiety reacts to low carb.6 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Also note that you can't snack as often on keto. If you do, you will end up with even tinier main meals because you will not have enough calories for decent meals. Some people experience reduced hunger when they lower carbs so they don't feel the need to snack often. Until you discover through your own experience if you're one of these people, try to tightly control your snacking behavior.
The bolder is not true. You can snack in a ketogenic diet. You could snack half the day if you wished to because you have the same calories available to you as when not eating keto.
I do agree that many choose not to snack if the experience reduced hunger.
OP is under the impression that it's okay to constantly eat high fat foods in addition to main meals. To have little keto nibbles instead of meals or instead of some of the meals is one way to do it, but since keto is a reduced volume diet already, I would hate to see how main meals look like on the same calories if a significant number of calories is spent on snacks. If snack calories are not tightly regulated, and you eat your typical food volume on top of that during meals, the potential for overeating is high, at least until the person discovers how their satiety reacts to low carb.
I read that differently. I thought the OP felt they constantly snacked and ate too many carbs - not fats.
I have days where I snack often and eat few meals. I eat more often but not more in total because! as you said, my meals are smaller. Other days I only eat once or twice. Either way is doable for keto. Eating less often is mire common.
But I do agree that keeping track of calories, and macros too, when starting a new diet can help one in the long run.3 -
I started on 1200 calories a day and lost weight but was always hungry. I included rice and fruit (mostly plums) but mostly protein and veg. Ate a lot of raw carrots. But I was starving and compensated with very large quantities (3-400 grams raw) of bland (steamed) vegetables (mostly broccoli and cauliflower). I moved to a low carb, high fat, moderate protein approach. I keep an eye on the protein (60g a day which is about 100gm of meat or fish per meal which looks very little til you get used to it and if I am eating two meals I sometimes up it a bit per meal) and I watch the carbs (20g a day). I have cut out as much sugar as I can (some in milk and some vegetables) and all grains, wheat, pulses, pasta, rice, bread, root veg, all fruit. I have introduced full fat yogurt and mostly drink herbal or black tea (took a bit of getting used to), I eat mostly broccoli, cauliflower (cauliflower rice is delicious, I never knew), courgettes (courgetini is OK and works with pasta sauce), brussels sprouts, cabbage, beans, spinach, lettuce, cucumber. The veg I cook with butter so it is delicious. I do not use any sugar substitutes. I have some 100% chocolate but can only eat a square at a time and sometimes have with dinner as desert. I have moved to 'normal portions' which to start with looked tiny and have moved to eating from a salad plate and not regular dinner plate. I cook with coconut oil and butter. I use more spices and am cooking more than previously. I make curries with yogurt or coconut milk. I include seeds and nuts and will eat some fresh coconut, and occasionally, when needing a sweet treat, a home made powerball which I make with fresh coconut, brazil nuts, pecans, creamed coconut, seeds). I try to not snack since it is mostly habit after dinner when watching TV and not hunger. I am eating less volume but really am not hungry, and enjoying my food much more. For me it feels a much more sustainable long term option that my previous calories counting. I am still needing to lose a lot of weight so do not do any of the keto alternatives (almond flour bread, coconut flour pancakes etc) but will introduce these after October. My goal is to be strict for 6 months (til after the operation) and then ease off a bit and experiment with keto pancakes with nut butter etc. Longer term, during maintenance, I do not plan to be silly and will from time to time eat cake but balance this off with a bit of fasting.
My point in writing is that I think that people need to find their own way to lose weight but it needs to be sustainable for them. I would recommend trying the low carb, high fat, moderate protein approach to see if it works but not to mix and match, ie go low carb , 'high' fat and eat in excess especially the low carb alternatives (keto bread etc). That wont work. The "rules" are eat until not hungry but lets not kid ourselves, this is a lot less than I used to eat and it felt a bit of a shock to start, especially on a full sized plate. But you can eat bacon and eggs (scrambled with butter), buttery cabbage (I cook part butter and part water because I still struggle to overdo the fat!). It does not feel as much as a diet and only eating at set times starts to develop habits where you are not always planning the next meal. Also be warned that High Fat is not excess amounts of fat but high compared to the normal low calorie diets. Clearly the more you eat the less you will lose, so this is about finding a solution to eating less that feels OK.
Example days (I have included days when I ate breakfast but often I would just eat the two meals as shown)
Breakfast: mushroom, spinach and cheddar 2 egg omelette; Lunch: 2 small chicken thighs, sour cream, broccoli; Dinner, tandoori (yogurt and spices) salmon, cauliflower rice, spinach
Breakfast: 3 boiled eggs; Lunch: smoked mackerel and salad; Dinner: beef stroganoff, cabbage
Breakfast: Yogurt, brazil nuts and seeds; Lunch, chicken sitr fried with brussels sprouts; Dinner, Monk fish and prawns, cauli rice, spinach
You could break this into smaller meals/snacks but they do recommend having as long a gap as possible between last and first meal so you might want to have a window within which you snack. For me one of the benefits of this approach is that I am not hungry so do not need to be thinking about food all the time which is a change and better than when I was on the 1200 and kept thinking about if I could afford the calories to eat a plum.
To share some stats, I am 56, have 60kg to lose and have lost 17kg since 21st February, but expect it to slow down as I lose weight. I am not diabetic. I am quite motivated, in that I have an operation scheduled for October and whilst they were happy to proceed now, I asked for a delay so I could lose some weight and it seems to have been the kick start I have lacked in the past. Between 21 Feb and 25 April I lost 6kg (so 3kg a month on 1200 calories a day). I was strict but starving and close to bingeing a lot of the time. From 25th April to 23rd June I have lost 11kg I am fairly strict (zero carbs other than veg, yogurt and nuts), mostly eat 2 meals (because I am not that hungry in the mornings) and have done one 62 hour fast (where I was not that hungry and felt wonderful). I do not track calories any more, but do log all my meals. I expect calorie for calorie the new approach is not all that different but the difference for me is that I am losing weigh but don't feel as deprived and am not nearly as hungry (yes I do wish I could eat cake but the lingering longing is not accompanied by acute hunger which helps).
Going back to the original post, I think fine to reduce carbs but I would not stop counting calories and eating fat unless "going keto" since you could end up in the worst of both worlds and not losing any weight.4
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