Fun Little Discussion on Cheating
justinkimcentral
Posts: 127 Member
This is nothing personal or related to my current style... therefore this is just a discussion. Just facts and opinions for everyone to see as they stream along...
Question: When one is cutting aka dieting to lose body fat, is an average cheat day(Whole pizza, donute, burgers etc...) better or an all you can eat buffet?
The goal is to cheat and relax your mind from calories but at the same time not break your entire deficit.
Notable things to keep in mind: Thermic energy of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on... basically 7000 eaten isnt 7000 calories actually, instead its actually around 5000 due to protein breakdown, energy to digest etc...
Question: When one is cutting aka dieting to lose body fat, is an average cheat day(Whole pizza, donute, burgers etc...) better or an all you can eat buffet?
The goal is to cheat and relax your mind from calories but at the same time not break your entire deficit.
Notable things to keep in mind: Thermic energy of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on... basically 7000 eaten isnt 7000 calories actually, instead its actually around 5000 due to protein breakdown, energy to digest etc...
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Replies
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No matter what, I always stress about a cheat day and end up logging it throughout the week and undereating to make up for it. Therefore, I don't really do cheat days. I just pre-log whatever I'm planning on "splurging" on so I know exactly how much I can have of said item. And I would do a "meal" versus a full all you can eat buffet. Like for me, when I have my god son over, my "cheat" will be ice cream but I'll have pre-logged it and fit in into my day anyway so it feels like a cheat but I have the mental peace of knowing it was accounted for. I'm weird like that LOL4
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I don't do cheat meals or cheat days - I feel they are completely counterproductive. They mess with my "lifestyle" acumen.
It's like being the driver who abides by traffic laws and drives safely. But once a week, or maybe 2-3 times a month, that driver disregards his routine mode of driving - and speeds at 100mph, blows through stop signs and stop lights, does donuts on the interstate - just to treat or reward himself for being such a good drive. It just doesn't make sense to me.22 -
Neither is necessarily better, but it sounds like you're looking at a refeed. A binge at a buffet doesn't benefit fat loss by itself, but a planned refeed can help with other things. Your statement on thermic energy of food is just wrong, but not that relevant to the question.
There was a very long discussion on the benefits of refeeds and diet breaks that went pretty deep on the reasons for one or the other. Maybe you'll find the answers you seek in there.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks3 -
I haver told myself as I started up on this lifestyle change. That the word cheat meal, or day or falling off the wagon had to go by the wayside. Did it mean I would never eat more than I was supposed to, no but instead I was going to plan for it. Example this Sunday the 1st is my day, So my planning is instead of anyone buying me a cake or pie, or ice cream cake. I said no. Instead we will go out, and get an ice cream treat/frozen yogurt so I know the calories. But biggest thing is I eat it out of the house then it is done and over no left overs. Planned into my calories, and carbs and so on. And booting the guilt for having it right out the door.2
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You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.7 -
If I'm going to splurge, I will splurge on a meal, not a whole day. 7000 calories is enough to undo 2 weeks worth of discipline. No thanks. I'll tell you what though, I like pizza days just the same as anyone. I can burn extra calories through the week and bank those against an extra slice or two of pizza on Saturday, but generally speaking... I can't pack away food like I used to, I just don't seem to have the room. I'm sure I could force myself to, but I've found that anything can become a habit if you do it with regularity - including listening to your body telling you that it's full.1
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I'm not sure what the question is, pizza or buffet? It wouldn't matter for me the calorie count would be around the same, I would probably get more protein in with the buffet which would make me feel better about the choice.
Anyhow I have planned refeeds that fit into my deficit. I don't consider them cheat days.7 -
Other than jump-starting your poop production, why?10
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lol i try n stick to cheat meal not a whole day pizza and desert if I've made a lose that week in winter might have full english for breakfast to1
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You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Is it too early to suggest he try a 7000 calorie cake sammich binge?6 -
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justinkimcentral wrote: »You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Thats not the question. The question was more along the way of which you prefer and i specifically mentioned that this was not personal so saying "youre overthinking or youre blah blah" doesnt really fit
I didn't see "which do you prefer?". The question was posed as "which is better?". So then I guess the clarification required would be "better" for what?
If the purpose is to relax your mind and forget about calories, then you won't know how many calories you ate - and you won't care because you're relaxed about it. If the purpose is to not destroy your deficit, then you're not forgetting about calories and you're not being relaxed about it. And if you're not breaking your entire deficit, then it's not a "cheat" in the first place. And the only way you can know whether you broke your entire deficit would be not to forget about calories. And if you're thinking about thermic effect of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on, you're not relaxing your mind and you're not forgetting about calories. And if it's about what somebody prefers, then isn't it personal because you're asking for their personal opinion? How can it not be personal? It's a subjective question by its very nature, not objective.
Really the whole thing is kind of going in circles.13 -
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I don't do cheat days, but when I'm presented with the opportunity to eat whatever and however much I want and happen to be in the "IDGAF mode", I would go for buffet most times. I really like variety, and I can have pizza any time so it doesn't sound special unless I'm specifically craving pizza. I don't have access to a buffet whenever I want, at least not the kind I like. It would also depend on the food available. I'm not crazy about meat, so if the buffet is mostly meat based dishes, my choices are limited and it's not as appealing.1
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This is tough but I think I would pick the buffet!!!! 😍1
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justinkimcentral wrote: »justinkimcentral wrote: »You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Thats not the question. The question was more along the way of which you prefer and i specifically mentioned that this was not personal so saying "youre overthinking or youre blah blah" doesnt really fit
I didn't see "which do you prefer?". The question was posed as "which is better?". So then I guess the clarification required would be "better" for what?
If the purpose is to relax your mind and forget about calories, then you won't know how many calories you ate - and you won't care because you're relaxed about it. If the purpose is to not destroy your deficit, then you're not forgetting about calories and you're not being relaxed about it. And if you're not breaking your entire deficit, then it's not a "cheat" in the first place. And the only way you can know whether you broke your entire deficit would be not to forget about calories. And if you're thinking about thermic effect of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on, you're not relaxing your mind and you're not forgetting about calories. And if it's about what somebody prefers, then isn't it personal because you're asking for their personal opinion? How can it not be personal? It's a subjective question by its very nature, not objective.
Really the whole thing is kind of going in circles.
I took this similar question from Stephanie Buttermore
I had to Google Stephanie Buttermore, since I've never heard of her before. Apparently she's a 27-year old cancer research scientist. So in that context, is the question "what is best?" phrased in terms of how it relates to the risk/probability of cancer from those foods? Calories don't have to do with cancer, but it certainly wouldn't relax my mind to think about cancer while I was eating. Personally, I find it's actually kind of an unappetizing subject, I wouldn't be able to enjoy an all you can eat buffet while thinking about it. What did Stephanie have to say about it?3 -
justinkimcentral wrote: »justinkimcentral wrote: »You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Thats not the question. The question was more along the way of which you prefer and i specifically mentioned that this was not personal so saying "youre overthinking or youre blah blah" doesnt really fit
I didn't see "which do you prefer?". The question was posed as "which is better?". So then I guess the clarification required would be "better" for what?
If the purpose is to relax your mind and forget about calories, then you won't know how many calories you ate - and you won't care because you're relaxed about it. If the purpose is to not destroy your deficit, then you're not forgetting about calories and you're not being relaxed about it. And if you're not breaking your entire deficit, then it's not a "cheat" in the first place. And the only way you can know whether you broke your entire deficit would be not to forget about calories. And if you're thinking about thermic effect of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on, you're not relaxing your mind and you're not forgetting about calories. And if it's about what somebody prefers, then isn't it personal because you're asking for their personal opinion? How can it not be personal? It's a subjective question by its very nature, not objective.
Really the whole thing is kind of going in circles.
I took this similar question from Stephanie Buttermore
I love Mrs. Butterworth! I didn't realize she was into cheat days. Although, a big pile of pancakes with syrup and bacon would make an awesome cheat meal.3 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »justinkimcentral wrote: »justinkimcentral wrote: »You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Thats not the question. The question was more along the way of which you prefer and i specifically mentioned that this was not personal so saying "youre overthinking or youre blah blah" doesnt really fit
I didn't see "which do you prefer?". The question was posed as "which is better?". So then I guess the clarification required would be "better" for what?
If the purpose is to relax your mind and forget about calories, then you won't know how many calories you ate - and you won't care because you're relaxed about it. If the purpose is to not destroy your deficit, then you're not forgetting about calories and you're not being relaxed about it. And if you're not breaking your entire deficit, then it's not a "cheat" in the first place. And the only way you can know whether you broke your entire deficit would be not to forget about calories. And if you're thinking about thermic effect of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on, you're not relaxing your mind and you're not forgetting about calories. And if it's about what somebody prefers, then isn't it personal because you're asking for their personal opinion? How can it not be personal? It's a subjective question by its very nature, not objective.
Really the whole thing is kind of going in circles.
I took this similar question from Stephanie Buttermore
I love Mrs. Butterworth! I didn't realize she was into cheat days. Although, a big pile of pancakes with syrup and bacon would make an awesome cheat meal.
Pancakes with syrup and bacon would relax my mind and let me forget about calories!2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »justinkimcentral wrote: »justinkimcentral wrote: »You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Thats not the question. The question was more along the way of which you prefer and i specifically mentioned that this was not personal so saying "youre overthinking or youre blah blah" doesnt really fit
I didn't see "which do you prefer?". The question was posed as "which is better?". So then I guess the clarification required would be "better" for what?
If the purpose is to relax your mind and forget about calories, then you won't know how many calories you ate - and you won't care because you're relaxed about it. If the purpose is to not destroy your deficit, then you're not forgetting about calories and you're not being relaxed about it. And if you're not breaking your entire deficit, then it's not a "cheat" in the first place. And the only way you can know whether you broke your entire deficit would be not to forget about calories. And if you're thinking about thermic effect of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on, you're not relaxing your mind and you're not forgetting about calories. And if it's about what somebody prefers, then isn't it personal because you're asking for their personal opinion? How can it not be personal? It's a subjective question by its very nature, not objective.
Really the whole thing is kind of going in circles.
I took this similar question from Stephanie Buttermore
I love Mrs. Butterworth! I didn't realize she was into cheat days. Although, a big pile of pancakes with syrup and bacon would make an awesome cheat meal.
Pancakes with syrup and bacon would relax my mind and let me forget about calories!
Right!?! Throw in some ham and eggs. Yum!0 -
justinkimcentral wrote: »justinkimcentral wrote: »You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Thats not the question. The question was more along the way of which you prefer and i specifically mentioned that this was not personal so saying "youre overthinking or youre blah blah" doesnt really fit
I didn't see "which do you prefer?". The question was posed as "which is better?". So then I guess the clarification required would be "better" for what?
If the purpose is to relax your mind and forget about calories, then you won't know how many calories you ate - and you won't care because you're relaxed about it. If the purpose is to not destroy your deficit, then you're not forgetting about calories and you're not being relaxed about it. And if you're not breaking your entire deficit, then it's not a "cheat" in the first place. And the only way you can know whether you broke your entire deficit would be not to forget about calories. And if you're thinking about thermic effect of food, increased caloric burn from large eating and so on, you're not relaxing your mind and you're not forgetting about calories. And if it's about what somebody prefers, then isn't it personal because you're asking for their personal opinion? How can it not be personal? It's a subjective question by its very nature, not objective.
Really the whole thing is kind of going in circles.
I took this similar question from Stephanie Buttermore
That woman can eat. I love food but I burn out fast.1 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »
I love Mrs. Butterworth! I didn't realize she was into cheat days. Although, a big pile of pancakes with syrup and bacon would make an awesome cheat meal.
Pancakes with syrup and bacon would relax my mind and let me forget about calories!
I splurged on some french toast and sausage Sunday for brunch. It was fewer calories than I expected, like 900. (I don't typically douse it with gallons of syrup, so that may have helped.) Didn't have lunch later, but I was still stuffed.0 -
I always think about cheating
but it's only cheating myself and I end up logging and is that still cheating???
There are days I go over my logging accounts...is that cheating or is cheating taking a double double burger and fries into the closet and not logging it??? I can't do that!2 -
I think enjoying the way food TASTES on occasion is part of life, and if you're on vacation or doing something else that's "special," enjoying a treat is a nice thing. I don't think over-eating, though, where you end up with heartburn or reflux and you have to unbutton your pants, is healthy or worth it, and try not to do it.1
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I always think about cheating but it's only cheating myself and I end up logging and is that still cheating???
There are days I go over my logging accounts...is that cheating or is cheating taking a double double burger and fries into the closet and not logging it??? I can't do that!
IMO, cheating is not logging. Going over and logging is not cheating if you account for the overage using either time or deficit.
What I mean by that is that if you are in weight loss mode, you can make up for the overage just by returning to the deficit you were eating at, knowing that the overall loss will take a little more time or you could increase your deficit (if you can do that, still have a healthy total and not get so hungry that you binge) to catch back up with where you should be in terms of weight lost.
I am in maintenance, so all the time in the world won't make up for the overage I had the last couple of days if I just eat maintenance calories. I have to eat at a deficit to account for them.
I have had a few close calls where I ate something like I was sneaking it and didn't log it right away. But then I would think about it more and log it. If I go back over my diary and try to get a sense for what my true maintenance is, I need accurate data. I don't want to get into that game of pretending I don't know why my weight is creeping back up.4 -
You're overthinking this. The calorie count is going to determine the effect it has upon your weight loss.
If you eat 2000 calories worth of whole pizza, donuts, burgers, etc. or 2000 calories at an all you can eat buffet, it's going to have the same effect. And you didn't specify specifically what you ate in either case, so TEF is a moot point in the discussion. The commonly accepted TEF for a mixed macronutrient meal is around 10%, and neither of your examples specify the macro composition - but with the examples you gave, both could be assumed to commonly be mixed macronutrient meals.
Is it too early to suggest he try a 7000 calorie cake sammich binge?
It's never too early for a cake sammich.3 -
Maybe the Butterfield-diet plan has it nailed down. They call it a treat day.
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CarvedTones wrote: »I always think about cheating but it's only cheating myself and I end up logging and is that still cheating???
There are days I go over my logging accounts...is that cheating or is cheating taking a double double burger and fries into the closet and not logging it??? I can't do that!
IMO, cheating is not logging. Going over and logging is not cheating if you account for the overage using either time or deficit.
What I mean by that is that if you are in weight loss mode, you can make up for the overage just by returning to the deficit you were eating at, knowing that the overall loss will take a little more time or you could increase your deficit (if you can do that, still have a healthy total and not get so hungry that you binge) to catch back up with where you should be in terms of weight lost.
I am in maintenance, so all the time in the world won't make up for the overage I had the last couple of days if I just eat maintenance calories. I have to eat at a deficit to account for them.
I have had a few close calls where I ate something like I was sneaking it and didn't log it right away. But then I would think about it more and log it. If I go back over my diary and try to get a sense for what my true maintenance is, I need accurate data. I don't want to get into that game of pretending I don't know why my weight is creeping back up.
one of the reasons I do not "cheat". I will cut calories for a day or two if I know I am going out.1 -
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