Vegan Keto beginner meals
Replies
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JStarDragon wrote: »Lots of people have success with keto, vegan is just a different, healthier option. Why so many negative comments, do you all make comments like this on the other keto posts??? Give it a rest! I'm going to be eating within a healthy deficient and carefully monitoring my macros. I won't even be consuming saturated fats! Eating high carb has not worked for me, I'm sure it works for some people, good for them, I'm trying low carb high fat now.
I don't think they're negative...I think people are looking at this and thinking about how restrictive it would be because you're essentially talking about 2 WOEs that are typically on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
It's certainly possible, but it's going to be really restrictive in regards to what you can eat.3 -
JStarDragon wrote: »MFP is not the only group I belong too and it is very rarely the group I go to for support, I almost never post here. And now I remember why. I also use other trackers. And I don't go over my calorie limit. I am just trying a different way of eating, I feel good about my choice. I suggest that if you don't understand it you can go onto a vegan keto website or group and educate yourself. On FB I belong to several vegan keto groups each with thousands of members, all doing this successfully. Obviously it is not impossible. It seems that people are confused about my saturated fat comment. First off avocado is not saturated, it's unsaturated. Coconut is an odd one, its medium chain and kinda in between. The majority of saturated fats come from animals though there are exceptions. One of the problems people run into with keto is consuming too much saturated fats in an attempt to lose weight, which has been linked to health problems. As a vegan I will not be falling back on a diet heavily fueled by saturated fats, and instead eating primarily unsaturated fats. Again, DO NOT COMMENT if you have no knowledge of vegan keto. DO NOT COMMENT if you are going to be a negative unsupportive troll because you think your way is the best. I am looking for food options that is all. Thank you to the people with some keto knowledge pointing me on the right direction.
Nobody is trolling...anyone can comment on an open forum. Nobody is saying their way is the best...everyone is looking at this plan as being very restrictive due to generally being on opposite ends of the diet spectrum
Good luck...sounds like you'll need it.5 -
JStarDragon wrote: »MFP is not the only group I belong too and it is very rarely the group I go to for support, I almost never post here. And now I remember why. I also use other trackers. And I don't go over my calorie limit. I am just trying a different way of eating, I feel good about my choice. I suggest that if you don't understand it you can go onto a vegan keto website or group and educate yourself. On FB I belong to several vegan keto groups each with thousands of members, all doing this successfully. Obviously it is not impossible. It seems that people are confused about my saturated fat comment. First off avocado is not saturated, it's unsaturated. Coconut is an odd one, its medium chain and kinda in between. The majority of saturated fats come from animals though there are exceptions. One of the problems people run into with keto is consuming too much saturated fats in an attempt to lose weight, which has been linked to health problems. As a vegan I will not be falling back on a diet heavily fueled by saturated fats, and instead eating primarily unsaturated fats. Again, DO NOT COMMENT if you have no knowledge of vegan keto. DO NOT COMMENT if you are going to be a negative unsupportive troll because you think your way is the best. I am looking for food options that is all. Thank you to the people with some keto knowledge pointing me on the right direction.
I don't think anyone is trolling you. I think most are trying to point out some of the difficulties. I personally struggle to understand how you will get about 100g of protein in a single meal. If it's possible, than it's great, but that may or may not be enough for you depending on your goals and stats.
Also, the evidence against SFA is getting fairly outdated, especially considering most were observation studies. What should be taken away from it, is a western american diet (highly caloric, highly processed foods) affect health. You can be a vegan and still h ave major issues. It's when people move to a diet high in whole foods (which can include meat), maintain a healthy weight and exercise, where people can live improved lives. That and have good genetics. Genetics has greater risk factors than diet does.2 -
JStarDragon wrote: »MFP is not the only group I belong too and it is very rarely the group I go to for support, I almost never post here. And now I remember why. I also use other trackers. And I don't go over my calorie limit. I am just trying a different way of eating, I feel good about my choice. I suggest that if you don't understand it you can go onto a vegan keto website or group and educate yourself. On FB I belong to several vegan keto groups each with thousands of members, all doing this successfully. Obviously it is not impossible. It seems that people are confused about my saturated fat comment. First off avocado is not saturated, it's unsaturated. Coconut is an odd one, its medium chain and kinda in between. The majority of saturated fats come from animals though there are exceptions. One of the problems people run into with keto is consuming too much saturated fats in an attempt to lose weight, which has been linked to health problems. As a vegan I will not be falling back on a diet heavily fueled by saturated fats, and instead eating primarily unsaturated fats. Again, DO NOT COMMENT if you have no knowledge of vegan keto. DO NOT COMMENT if you are going to be a negative unsupportive troll because you think your way is the best. I am looking for food options that is all. Thank you to the people with some keto knowledge pointing me on the right direction.
Just so you know, avocado does contain some saturated fat. 100 grams of avocado has about 2 grams of saturated fat.
A vegan diet, whether keto or not, can have saturated fat from things like avocado, nuts, and soy. You're right that you will be getting plenty of unsaturated fats along with the saturated fat. I just bring it up because you stated above that you wouldn't be having saturated fats and I was concerned you would be attempting to eliminate foods with saturated fats. I didn't think that would be sustainable or healthy (whether you're doing keto or not).
If you're a member of communities where thousands of people are practicing vegan keto successfully, maybe they would be a good source for food options and ideas. We don't have many people doing vegan keto here (I can think of maybe 3-4 people at most and some of them may no longer be doing it).
I think this is less a matter of people "trolling" and more a matter of people not really understanding why you would want to add additional restrictions to veganism. Good luck.
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I am not new to being vegan and have been a vegetarian over 20 years, so that is not restrictive for me in the slightest. Keto is restrictive in the sense that it is switching up macros to induce ketosis. OMAD is not restrictive within foods that are being eaten, it just condenses the meal into one meal a day. Anyone who has been doing IF for a while knows this is not a big leap to take. Actually when I search the keto groups there are quite a few people doing IF and only eating 1or 2 meals a day. It may seem odd to people who are not used to this kind if eating, but to someone who is already vegan and doing IF this is not very different. Anyone who does not know about these ways of eating, there is a lot of info out there that you can educate yourself with. Intermittent fasting and keto pop up frequently in discussions and you can read about them if you like.8
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And, the amount of saturated fats in a vegan diet is significantly less than in a meat diet, I think every one can agree on that, so don't get hung up on the small .5g in this or that nut/vegetable/fruit.6
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JStarDragon wrote: »I am not new to being vegan and have been a vegetarian over 20 years, so that is not restrictive for me in the slightest. Keto is restrictive in the sense that it is switching up macros to induce ketosis. OMAD is not restrictive within foods that are being eaten, it just condenses the meal into one meal a day. Anyone who has been doing IF for a while knows this is not a big leap to take. Actually when I search the keto groups there are quite a few people doing IF and only eating 1or 2 meals a day. It may seem odd to people who are not used to this kind if eating, but to someone who is already vegan and doing IF this is not very different. Anyone who does not know about these ways of eating, there is a lot of info out there that you can educate yourself with. Intermittent fasting and keto pop up frequently in discussions and you can read about them if you like.
I would like to point out, the majority of people in this thread are either vegans, following low carb/keto, practice IF, or a combination of those (I have done IF and I cycle keto/high carb). There are a lot of people out there practicing those ways of eating that don't understand the importance of protein because the diet stresses other macronutrients.5 -
JStarDragon wrote: »And, the amount of saturated fats in a vegan diet is significantly less than in a meat diet, I think every one can agree on that, so don't get hung up on the small .5g in this or that nut/vegetable/fruit.
I don't think those of us mentioning saturated fats are "hung up," we're just responding to this statement: "I won't even be consuming saturated fats." We're not talking about just .5. I don't have a particularly high fat diet and I'm still averaging about 15 grams of saturated fat per day right now (mostly from things like coconut and cashews). Vegans can and do eat saturated fats. I addressed it for two reasons: First, I wanted to ensure that you were not planning to eliminate saturated fats from your diet. Secondly, if this was an expression of the myth that vegans don't have access to saturated fats in their diet, I wanted to address it so that nobody reading this thread would get the wrong impression.
Whether you *perceive* it to be restrictive or not, veganism does involve some food restrictions. I'm not arguing this makes veganism a bad thing -- I've practiced it myself for over ten years now. But it's not insignificant to note that someone who is vegan and also wants to be in a state of ketosis is overall going to be eliminating and restricting a great many different foods. Someone may have good reasons to adopt all those restrictions and limitations, but let's not pretend they don't exist.8 -
https://www.ruled.me/comprehensive-guide-vegan-ketogenic-diet/
I googled. There are suggestions on how to veganize recipes, and even some recipes if you keep reading. Just about every 3rd sentence seems to be something along the line of "this is hard because of self-imposed restrictions." It appears to be very heavy in processed food products. I am not concerned about who processes the food - but I'm not about to learn to make my own tofu, and it looks like this is going to be a bit expensive. You didn't indicate that as a concern - so I'll drop it, right there. Also, take your vitamins. The site indicates that you're just not going to be able to get all of your micros in view of all the restrictions.
There are some recipes that they may or may not have corrected to be vegan-friendly, but they offer suggestions for egg and dairy substitutes. There's a sample meal plan. They do want to sell you a program. It may be something that interests you.
Best of luck.4 -
I applaud ethical vegans. I knew a plethora of healthy and fit vegans during my three years at yoga retreat centers. They ate a ton of carbs.
While it is not impossible to be keto vegan, that would limit your choices incredibly. If your goal is to lose weight while eating ethically, why make it harder than it needs to be by adding keto, which is a diametrically opposite WOE* than vegan?
There are mistakes that people commonly make that cause them to not lose weight that we might be able to spot if you change your Diary Sharing settings to Public: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings
* ETA: in terms of macros1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I applaud ethical vegans. I knew a plethora of healthy and fit vegans during my three years at yoga retreat centers. They ate a ton of carbs.
While it is not impossible to be keto vegan, that would limit your choices incredibly. If your goal is to lose weight while eating ethically, why make it harder than it needs to be by adding keto, which is a diametrically opposite WOE than vegan?
There are mistakes that people commonly make that cause them to not lose weight that we might be able to spot if you change your Diary Sharing settings to Public: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings
I think I understand what you're trying to say with the statement that keto is diametrically opposite to veganism, but I would consider the diametrically opposite lifestyle of veganism to be non-veganism, a choice to engage in and support unnecessary exploitation of animals.
Vegan diets are often high or moderate carbohydrate as a matter of access, convenience, economy, taste, and variety and keto diets are often rich in animal products for similar reasons. But someone who is doing vegan keto is still vegan. They haven't chosen a lifestyle that is in any way opposed to veganism, as they're still choosing not to engage in unnecessary animal exploitation. It's just an less typical diet than what you usually see vegans choosing.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »I applaud ethical vegans. I knew a plethora of healthy and fit vegans during my three years at yoga retreat centers. They ate a ton of carbs.
While it is not impossible to be keto vegan, that would limit your choices incredibly. If your goal is to lose weight while eating ethically, why make it harder than it needs to be by adding keto, which is a diametrically opposite WOE than vegan?
There are mistakes that people commonly make that cause them to not lose weight that we might be able to spot if you change your Diary Sharing settings to Public: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings
I think I understand what you're trying to say with the statement that keto is diametrically opposite to veganism, but I would consider the diametrically opposite lifestyle of veganism to be non-veganism, a choice to engage in and support unnecessary exploitation of animals.
Vegan diets are often high or moderate carbohydrate as a matter of access, convenience, economy, taste, and variety and keto diets are often rich in animal products for similar reasons. But someone who is doing vegan keto is still vegan. They haven't chosen a lifestyle that is in any way opposed to veganism, as they're still choosing not to engage in unnecessary animal exploitation. It's just an less typical diet than what you usually see vegans choosing.
Yes, I was referring to macros only for that point and should have said that - thanks for clarifying
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My opinion is to do one of the other (vegan or keto) and being vegan myself, I would recommend that. I read an article about the difference with keto and plant based. The difference is that keto is low carb and high fat, where as plant based is low fat, high carb. Apparently there's no sufficient proof that keto keeps the weight off long term. The foods are also linked to cause chronic illnesses and shorten lifespan. Keto diet has less fibre too which your body needs to keep everything moving through your gastrointestinal tract. Keto is also a poor source of micronutrients. I would like the article with the references but I don't know if you can on here without being flagged ((if you want it message me:)) xxxx
Added, no one is trying to bash Keto:) we're just offering you some advice based on our own experiences and opinions xx2 -
georgieamber2 wrote: »My opinion is to do one of the other (vegan or keto) and being vegan myself, I would recommend that. I read an article about the difference with keto and plant based. The difference is that keto is low carb and high fat, where as plant based is low fat, high carb. Apparently there's no sufficient proof that keto keeps the weight off long term. The foods are also linked to cause chronic illnesses and shorten lifespan. Keto diet has less fibre too which your body needs to keep everything moving through your gastrointestinal tract. Keto is also a poor source of micronutrients. I would like the article with the references but I don't know if you can on here without being flagged ((if you want it message me:)) xxxx
Added, no one is trying to bash Keto:) we're just offering you some advice based on our own experiences and opinions xx
You do realize that veganism and plant based diets have the same compliance rate as all other diets right?
And you can get a pretty good macronutrient profile with keto if you do it right. But considering the amount of supplementation (b12 and often iron) on vegan diets, it would suggest those aren't so superior.2 -
Wait... I thought a true keto diet was limited to 20 grams of carbs a day. How would a "vegan keto" diet even be possible? What would a daily food menu look like? I am truly curious...no diet shaming or lectures from me. I just don't understand how its possible?
I recently went vegetarian (again) and, since I am also lactose intolerant, many of my meals end up being vegan by default. I am doing great but I checked my macros for the past 2 weeks and it is HEAVY in the carbs. I can't even wrap my head around how I would lower the carbs and still keep the diet healthy.4 -
amymoreorless wrote: »Wait... I thought a true keto diet was limited to 20 grams of carbs a day. How would a "vegan keto" diet even be possible? What would a daily food menu look like? I am truly curious...no diet shaming or lectures from me. I just don't understand how its possible?
I recently went vegetarian (again) and, since I am also lactose intolerant, many of my meals end up being vegan by default. I am doing great but I checked my macros for the past 2 weeks and it is HEAVY in the carbs. I can't even wrap my head around how I would lower the carbs and still keep the diet healthy.
This was the point I tried to make in my long-ish post above, that showed a 225-calorie serving of the tofu-broccoli-coconut curry dish posited in the OP exceeding net carbs for the day, while still about 75 g of protein short of OP's 100 gram goal, which I think means making up the remaining calories and protein through things like adding large amounts of carb-free vegan fats and oils to that one tofu & broccoli meal, plus bullet-proof coffee made with vegan butter and possibly coconut oil, now that OP has kinda, sorta suggested that she (? -- excuse me if I'm getting the pronoun wrong -- I don't recall if OP's gender has been mentioned) exempts coconut oil from the pronouncement about not having saturated fats, with "yummy" unsweetened, unflavored vegan protein powder blended into either the bullet-proof coffee or into sugar-free flavored water (with more carb-free fats and oils if desired). Swapping out tofu for seitan would allow for a larger OMAD with fewer carbs, and thus more wiggle room for including a few carbs with the rest of the calories for the day.0 -
Here is a link for those who are curious about what a vegan keto diet looks like. https://www.ruled.me/comprehensive-guide-vegan-ketogenic-diet/2
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georgieamber2 wrote: »My opinion is to do one of the other (vegan or keto) and being vegan myself, I would recommend that. I read an article about the difference with keto and plant based. The difference is that keto is low carb and high fat, where as plant based is low fat, high carb. Apparently there's no sufficient proof that keto keeps the weight off long term. The foods are also linked to cause chronic illnesses and shorten lifespan. Keto diet has less fibre too which your body needs to keep everything moving through your gastrointestinal tract. Keto is also a poor source of micronutrients. I would like the article with the references but I don't know if you can on here without being flagged ((if you want it message me:)) xxxx
Added, no one is trying to bash Keto:) we're just offering you some advice based on our own experiences and opinions xx
You do realize that veganism and plant based diets have the same compliance rate as all other diets right?
And you can get a pretty good macronutrient profile with keto if you do it right. But considering the amount of supplementation (b12 and often iron) on vegan diets, it would suggest those aren't so superior.
Hey:) most of the population is actually deficient in b12 due to the levels in the soil being low. Cattle and other animals being reared for feed are actually given a b12 supplement due to the fact that there's just not enough of it in the soil anymore. So the b12 you get from consuming animals is actually gained from a supplement. The same reason why vegan milk or normal cereal is fortified with b12:) most people aren't iron deficient - I was extremely anemic before going vegan (not because I wasn't consuming enough but because my body absorbs it poorly) but luckily that's all resolved now. I have blood tests every 3 months and I'm really healthy. x
The article I spoke about was about "normal" Keto not vegan... but I've looked at the meals and they seem interesting and I was you luck on it:) x4 -
vegan...keto...and OMAD? if your not losing weight and getting the results you want its not because of what your eating tis in how much....this just sounds so unnecessary and overcomplicated. If your overeating on carby vegan stuff i imagine youll overeat in higher calorie high fat things to...why not just refocus on the calories?7
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georgieamber2 wrote: »georgieamber2 wrote: »My opinion is to do one of the other (vegan or keto) and being vegan myself, I would recommend that. I read an article about the difference with keto and plant based. The difference is that keto is low carb and high fat, where as plant based is low fat, high carb. Apparently there's no sufficient proof that keto keeps the weight off long term. The foods are also linked to cause chronic illnesses and shorten lifespan. Keto diet has less fibre too which your body needs to keep everything moving through your gastrointestinal tract. Keto is also a poor source of micronutrients. I would like the article with the references but I don't know if you can on here without being flagged ((if you want it message me:)) xxxx
Added, no one is trying to bash Keto:) we're just offering you some advice based on our own experiences and opinions xx
You do realize that veganism and plant based diets have the same compliance rate as all other diets right?
And you can get a pretty good macronutrient profile with keto if you do it right. But considering the amount of supplementation (b12 and often iron) on vegan diets, it would suggest those aren't so superior.
Hey:) most of the population is actually deficient in b12 due to the levels in the soil being low. Cattle and other animals being reared for feed are actually given a b12 supplement due to the fact that there's just not enough of it in the soil anymore. So the b12 you get from consuming animals is actually gained from a supplement. The same reason why vegan milk or normal cereal is fortified with b12:) most people aren't iron deficient - I was extremely anemic before going vegan (not because I wasn't consuming enough but because my body absorbs it poorly) but luckily that's all resolved now. I have blood tests every 3 months and I'm really healthy. x
The article I spoke about was about "normal" Keto not vegan... but I've looked at the meals and they seem interesting and I was you luck on it:) x
Id like to see where you get your statistics from regarding B12. The only people i know deficient are vegans.
Also, just like vegan, keto diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Keto doesn't mean low fiber or highly processed meats. You can get plenty of fiber with dark leafy greens and avocados. I suspect thr article you saw wasn't well informed.1 -
JStarDragon wrote: »Here is a link for those who are curious about what a vegan keto diet looks like. https://www.ruled.me/comprehensive-guide-vegan-ketogenic-diet/
So, one of the recommended vegan-keto recipes on the site you link to is a sesame-eggplant-tofu dish with 7 grams of net carbs and 11 grams of protein per serving, for nearly 300 kcal. To get 100 g of protein from that dish would cost 63 g of net carbs and 2700 kcal.
The peanut butter pancakes are a little better. 5 g net carbs, 14 g protein, and nearly 400 calories per serving. So to get 100 g of protein from that dish would cost you 35 g net carbs and 2800 kcal.
Even better is the crispy tofu and bok choy salad. 7 g net carbs, 24 g protein, and nearly 400 calories per serving. To get 100 g of protein from that dish would only cost you 28 g net carbs and 1600 kcal. Eliminate the lemon and lime juice and garlic and toss in some unflavored, unsweetened, vegan protein powder, and a huge serving of this for your OMAD could actually work. I'm not sure I could eat 2 and a quarter lbs of bok choy within a one-hour window, but YMMV. As I noted in previous posts, subbing seitan for tofu will improve the protein-carb ration. You could look at the profiles of other vegan meat substitutes and other veggies to sub for the tofu and bok choy to get some variety.
That's it, though. The other recipes (at least the ones that had nutrition information or were actually vegan - I'm looking at you, caprese salad) listed were worse than the crispy tofu and bok choy salad in terms of carb-protein balance, so if you were to eat any amount of those, you would have to find things to eat or drink that had a carb-protein balance even better than the crispy tofu and bok choy salad.
One serving of each of the foods listed in the sites sample vegan keto meal plan (see below) would yield approximately
28 g net carbs
75 g protein
1660 kcal
Over on carbs, under on protein. I don't remember seeing a specific calorie goal in your posts, so I don't know if you would be getting an appropriate number of calories on this plan.
I used the nutrition information for one serving of Bob's Red Mill unsweetened unflavored pea protein where a recipe called for adding vegan protein. Where the meal plan suggested a choice of two different dishes, I chose the one with the higher protein-carb ratio. I used the nutrition for the warm Asian broccoli salad as the dinner side dish, because there was no nutrition information for the grilled eggplant dish.
Breakfast: Peanut Butter Pancakes and a McKeto Strawberry Milkshake with added vegan protein powder or make a keto-friendly smoothie with flavored vegan protein and MCT oil blended in.
Lunch: Crispy Tofu and Bok Choy Salad or Oven Roasted Caprese Salad
Dinner: Vegan Sesame Tofu and Eggplant or Vegetarian Red Coconut Curry with Spicy Grilled Eggplant with Red Pepper, Parsley, and Mint or Warm Asian Broccoli Salad as a side dish.
Dessert: Coconut Peanut Butter Balls
@JStarDragon I realize trying to eat all of these dishes in a one-hour OMAD might not work, but I am sincerely trying to respond to your original question, and this is the information on the site you indicated as showing what a vegan keto diet looks like. I don't think you can meet your goals following the meal plan laid out on that site. You're going to have to do some tweaking. Subbing seitan for tofu, maybe trimming back a little on the veggies and fruits, and using at least two servings of unflavored, unsweetened vegan protein powder per day.
ETA bolding for the TL;DR crowd.5 -
georgieamber2 wrote: »georgieamber2 wrote: »My opinion is to do one of the other (vegan or keto) and being vegan myself, I would recommend that. I read an article about the difference with keto and plant based. The difference is that keto is low carb and high fat, where as plant based is low fat, high carb. Apparently there's no sufficient proof that keto keeps the weight off long term. The foods are also linked to cause chronic illnesses and shorten lifespan. Keto diet has less fibre too which your body needs to keep everything moving through your gastrointestinal tract. Keto is also a poor source of micronutrients. I would like the article with the references but I don't know if you can on here without being flagged ((if you want it message me:)) xxxx
Added, no one is trying to bash Keto:) we're just offering you some advice based on our own experiences and opinions xx
You do realize that veganism and plant based diets have the same compliance rate as all other diets right?
And you can get a pretty good macronutrient profile with keto if you do it right. But considering the amount of supplementation (b12 and often iron) on vegan diets, it would suggest those aren't so superior.
Hey:) most of the population is actually deficient in b12 due to the levels in the soil being low. Cattle and other animals being reared for feed are actually given a b12 supplement due to the fact that there's just not enough of it in the soil anymore. So the b12 you get from consuming animals is actually gained from a supplement. The same reason why vegan milk or normal cereal is fortified with b12:) most people aren't iron deficient - I was extremely anemic before going vegan (not because I wasn't consuming enough but because my body absorbs it poorly) but luckily that's all resolved now. I have blood tests every 3 months and I'm really healthy. x
The article I spoke about was about "normal" Keto not vegan... but I've looked at the meals and they seem interesting and I was you luck on it:) x
Id like to see where you get your statistics from regarding B12. The only people i know deficient are vegans.
Also, just like vegan, keto diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Keto doesn't mean low fiber or highly processed meats. You can get plenty of fiber with dark leafy greens and avocados. I suspect thr article you saw wasn't well informed.
I agree with vegan.. and even vegan Keto if you can keep it up. Exactly, you don't know any meat eaters deficient in b12 as the meat they eat is fortified with it ((as supplements are given to cows - there's just not high levels of it in the soil anymore)). I don't suspect he article I read wasn't well informed and perhaps it maybe yourself... anyone can be healthy / unhealthy / deficient in things ... not just vegans. Keto means high protein and fats with low carb. I believe that eating a high carb low fat vegan diet works... like any diet, it's proven to work long term but the main thing is it decreases your risks of cancers / heat attacks etc in the future ((plus is better for the animals)). I don't agree with normal Keto ((my opinion)) but vegan Keto I can get with. In my opinion the creator of this threat needs to track what they're eating to ensure they're getting enough:) x
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Found one of my articles... so animals cannot make their own b12 however the anaerobic microbes can. These microbes produce b12 in the presence of cobalt. Over the years, due to modern agriculture and farming, the levels of cobalt in the soil have reduced. So livestock like cows are given b12 or cobalt to produce b12. x
It's Obtaining Vitamin B12 On A Vegan Diet – The Truth on the natural man.net ((references included at the bottom))1 -
georgieamber2 wrote: »Found one of my articles... so animals cannot make their own b12 however the anaerobic microbes can. These microbes produce b12 in the presence of cobalt. Over the years, due to modern agriculture and farming, the levels of cobalt in the soil have reduced. So livestock like cows are given b12 or cobalt to produce b12. x
It's Obtaining Vitamin B12 On A Vegan Diet – The Truth on the natural man.net ((references included at the bottom))
Animal meats, fish, poultry, milk, cheese and eggs all have natural levels of B12. Your source is not a scientific article. They aren't fortified with B12.3 -
georgieamber2 wrote: »I don't suspect he article I read wasn't well informed and perhaps it maybe yourself...
People here have seemed fairly informed about nutrition as far as I've seen, I'd find it hard to believe anyone could take an article seriously if it implied a keto diet required unhealthy eating like low fiber and processed meats. And I did take this part of Lemon's post to mean that's specifically what he was referring to.Keto doesn't mean low fiber or highly processed meats. You can get plenty of fiber with dark leafy greens and avocados. I suspect thr article you saw wasn't well informed.
I suppose other interpretations are possible, but...you're saying now that he's uninformed about fiber and etc? How so?1 -
I'm saying he's misinformed about b12 and how vegans are apparently deficient in everything.georgieamber2 wrote: »Found one of my articles... so animals cannot make their own b12 however the anaerobic microbes can. These microbes produce b12 in the presence of cobalt. Over the years, due to modern agriculture and farming, the levels of cobalt in the soil have reduced. So livestock like cows are given b12 or cobalt to produce b12. x
It's Obtaining Vitamin B12 On A Vegan Diet – The Truth on the natural man.net ((references included at the bottom))
Animal meats, fish, poultry, milk, cheese and eggs all have natural levels of B12. Your source is not a scientific article. They aren't fortified with B12.
Do you know why cheese and eggs have a level of b12? Because they come from the cow / chicken. They have these levels because the animal does... the cheese / eggs themselves do not contain micro organisms that produce b12? And it is proven that feeding cattle cobalt increases the levels of vitamin b12 in the liver (Sketman et al, 1959). All I've been saying this whole time, is that b12 is produced in animals by micro organisms and livestock are fed cobalt to increase those levels... so technically those levels are artificial - it's basically the same as a vegan getting a supplement. x5 -
georgieamber2 wrote: »I'm saying he's misinformed about b12 and how vegans are apparently deficient in everything.georgieamber2 wrote: »Found one of my articles... so animals cannot make their own b12 however the anaerobic microbes can. These microbes produce b12 in the presence of cobalt. Over the years, due to modern agriculture and farming, the levels of cobalt in the soil have reduced. So livestock like cows are given b12 or cobalt to produce b12. x
It's Obtaining Vitamin B12 On A Vegan Diet – The Truth on the natural man.net ((references included at the bottom))
Animal meats, fish, poultry, milk, cheese and eggs all have natural levels of B12. Your source is not a scientific article. They aren't fortified with B12.
Do you know why cheese and eggs have a level of b12? Because they come from the cow / chicken. They have these levels because the animal does... the cheese / eggs themselves do not contain micro organisms that produce b12? And it is proven that feeding cattle cobalt increases the levels of vitamin b12 in the liver (Sketman et al, 1959). All I've been saying this whole time, is that b12 is produced in animals by micro organisms and livestock are fed cobalt to increase those levels... so technically those levels are artificial - it's basically the same as a vegan getting a supplement. x
Animals feeding is not the same as foods being fortified or supplementation. I just found it ironic that you slammed a diet for being nutrient deficient while a vegan diet is nutritionally deficient and requires supplementation. And poultry and fish is high in B12 as well.6 -
georgieamber2 wrote: »I'm saying he's misinformed about b12 and how vegans are apparently deficient in everything.georgieamber2 wrote: »Found one of my articles... so animals cannot make their own b12 however the anaerobic microbes can. These microbes produce b12 in the presence of cobalt. Over the years, due to modern agriculture and farming, the levels of cobalt in the soil have reduced. So livestock like cows are given b12 or cobalt to produce b12. x
It's Obtaining Vitamin B12 On A Vegan Diet – The Truth on the natural man.net ((references included at the bottom))
Animal meats, fish, poultry, milk, cheese and eggs all have natural levels of B12. Your source is not a scientific article. They aren't fortified with B12.
Do you know why cheese and eggs have a level of b12? Because they come from the cow / chicken. They have these levels because the animal does... the cheese / eggs themselves do not contain micro organisms that produce b12? And it is proven that feeding cattle cobalt increases the levels of vitamin b12 in the liver (Sketman et al, 1959). All I've been saying this whole time, is that b12 is produced in animals by micro organisms and livestock are fed cobalt to increase those levels... so technically those levels are artificial - it's basically the same as a vegan getting a supplement. x
Animals feeding is not the same as foods being fortified or supplementation. I just found it ironic that you slammed a diet for being nutrient deficient while a vegan diet is nutritionally deficient and requires supplementation. And poultry and fish is high in B12 as well.
Didn't I say at the bottom of my first post I wasn't slamming Keto, but taking from my own experiences and studies I've done for my university course. Granted, I used the word fortified wrong, and what I meant was that meat eaters would most probably be deficient if cobalt wasn't included in livestock feed... in my eyes that's a meat eater taking a supplement by proxy, no? I also said the article I read stated that regular Keto is a poor source of micronutrients and it might be worth a read. And like I said, any diet is nutrient deficient if you make it.
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Well, the choosemyplate diet won't be deficient. Neither will the diabetic or the DASH diets. These diets are VARIED so risk of being deficient in anything is much reduced.0
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JaydedMiss wrote: »vegan...keto...and OMAD? if your not losing weight and getting the results you want its not because of what your eating tis in how much....this just sounds so unnecessary and overcomplicated. If your overeating on carby vegan stuff i imagine youll overeat in higher calorie high fat things to...why not just refocus on the calories?
I actually do stay within my limits and do not overeat. I eat extremely healthy meals and am very cautious with my habits. I have a variety of health obstacles which have slowed things down. I actually participated in a completely controlled 10 day cleanse where my only calories came from a premade green smoothie totaling 800 calories a day and lost not one pound, no muscle gained either. It's been a frustrating battle. I added strength training and cardio into my life for months and have lost 5% fat, gaining muscle, but I have retained a bizarre amount of water along with it. This is in a high carb vegan diet, whole food plant based, no junk ever. I am vegan for ethical reasons and it does not feel restrictive for me because meat and animal products are just not an option. I am uninterested in them and there's a whole rainbow of fruits and vegetables I enjoy. My point is that YOU have no idea about my personal habits, health, or lifestyle and it's extremely rude to act like you do. It's also not supportive at all. I am interested in the benefits of ketosis, because other things have not worked well. I am a vegan, and vegan keto IS a thing people do with success, why continue high carb if I my body feels like crap????
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