I'm SO tired all the time. Please help me narrow down the problem.
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Replies
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Keep this simple.
You're tired - get more sleep. Prioritize it.
You're being too aggressive in this process. Either lose fat or build muscle. This requires months of cutting & bulking or attempting a recomposition, which takes months/years, not days/weeks.
Build your deficit to a more manageable level or move to maintenance and take a "break" for a week. For the strength training I recommend taking a deload week and work your way back up.
This is a life long pursuit. Check your pace.9 -
I agree that you need to stop expecting consistent gains in your lifting, especially when you're eating at a deficit and sleep deprived.
IMHO the order of importance you probably need to deal with:
1. Prioritize sleep, this could easily be causing all of your problems.
2. Ease off your macro watching and try to get more nutritious foods in your calorie goal.
3. Maybe give yourself a bit of a workout break. Don't push to increase weight, just focus on maintaining until you get the exhaustion figured out.
4. What kind of a program are you working? Are you getting adequate rest days?
Hope you start feeling better!
The only thing I would add to this ^^^ would be to maybe increase your calorie goal for a week or two, until you start getting back to yourself. The reason is because of the mention of cycling between trying to be "perfect" and bingeing. Also, stop aiming for perfection. Aim for good enough. It will take a lot of stress off of what you are doing.7 -
I agree that you need to stop expecting consistent gains in your lifting, especially when you're eating at a deficit and sleep deprived.
IMHO the order of importance you probably need to deal with:
1. Prioritize sleep, this could easily be causing all of your problems.
2. Ease off your macro watching and try to get more nutritious foods in your calorie goal.
3. Maybe give yourself a bit of a workout break. Don't push to increase weight, just focus on maintaining until you get the exhaustion figured out.
4. What kind of a program are you working? Are you getting adequate rest days?
Hope you start feeling better!
I'm doing MedX strength machines at the gym. The circuit I'm doing covers pretty much all my muscle groups. I do it three days a week, with at least one day break in between.
I like the list you made. I'll try to stick to that, although I have OCD tendencies, so it will be hard to not try and be a perfectionist. It's especially bad with macros. I can go crazy over that stuff. Especially with all the different advice out there. Some people say go 1g of protein per lb you weigh, and then go high carb, others say low carb high fat. It's very confusing because they all seem sincere and have success with what they're doing. I guess I need to discover what works best with my body type.
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Keep this simple.
You're tired - get more sleep. Prioritize it.
You're being too aggressive in this process. Either lose fat or build muscle. This requires months of cutting & bulking or attempting a recomposition, which takes months/years, not days/weeks.
Build your deficit to a more manageable level or move to maintenance and take a "break" for a week. For the strength training I recommend taking a deload week and work your way back up.
This is a life long pursuit. Check your pace.
Awesome points. Thanks. I do try and hurry the process, and then burn out.
What do you think of me going up to 2,000 calories/day?
Also, when deloading, how much less weight should I lift?0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »I agree that you need to stop expecting consistent gains in your lifting, especially when you're eating at a deficit and sleep deprived.
IMHO the order of importance you probably need to deal with:
1. Prioritize sleep, this could easily be causing all of your problems.
2. Ease off your macro watching and try to get more nutritious foods in your calorie goal.
3. Maybe give yourself a bit of a workout break. Don't push to increase weight, just focus on maintaining until you get the exhaustion figured out.
4. What kind of a program are you working? Are you getting adequate rest days?
Hope you start feeling better!
The only thing I would add to this ^^^ would be to maybe increase your calorie goal for a week or two, until you start getting back to yourself. The reason is because of the mention of cycling between trying to be "perfect" and bingeing. Also, stop aiming for perfection. Aim for good enough. It will take a lot of stress off of what you are doing.
I'm think of raising it to 2,000. Or should I go more? My maintenance amount seems to be 2,300.
Heck, maybe I should take this opportunity to see what my maintenance calories are, as I've never really found out by trial and error.
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When it comes to the fruit and veg, try not to make it a tough rule, just say you'll eat a vegetable or fruit at or with every meal. Sometimes you're gonna eat a raw carrot because you just can't be bothered but it counts. Eventually that becomes habit and you move on from there.2
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trustymutsi wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I agree that you need to stop expecting consistent gains in your lifting, especially when you're eating at a deficit and sleep deprived.
IMHO the order of importance you probably need to deal with:
1. Prioritize sleep, this could easily be causing all of your problems.
2. Ease off your macro watching and try to get more nutritious foods in your calorie goal.
3. Maybe give yourself a bit of a workout break. Don't push to increase weight, just focus on maintaining until you get the exhaustion figured out.
4. What kind of a program are you working? Are you getting adequate rest days?
Hope you start feeling better!
The only thing I would add to this ^^^ would be to maybe increase your calorie goal for a week or two, until you start getting back to yourself. The reason is because of the mention of cycling between trying to be "perfect" and bingeing. Also, stop aiming for perfection. Aim for good enough. It will take a lot of stress off of what you are doing.
I'm think of raising it to 2,000. Or should I go more? My maintenance amount seems to be 2,300.
Heck, maybe I should take this opportunity to see what my maintenance calories are, as I've never really found out by trial and error.
Why not give yourself a range? Set up fats and proteins as minimums, and then for calories aim for between 2000 and 2300. Just for a couple weeks. That will give you time to explore foods and how they effect you (some people feel draggy on lower carb, particularly if they are working out, others are fine with it).
I found this particularly helpful when I started:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1
I know it's difficult when you are aiming for perfect, and being off drives you a little batty, but at the same time, learning to let go of some of that was among some of the best things I did during this process.
Focus on what you are gaining, rather than on giving up stuff. Work in an extra serving or two of veggies per day rather than cutting out all sugar (which would make me want to kick kittens). The all or nothing mentality (which I also struggle with) has caused so much grief over the years. Take a breath step back a bit and really think about your end goal. Doing something good enough daily will get you further ahead than doing it perfectly 10% of the time (based on 3 perfect days in a month). Does that make sense?4 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »trustymutsi wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I agree that you need to stop expecting consistent gains in your lifting, especially when you're eating at a deficit and sleep deprived.
IMHO the order of importance you probably need to deal with:
1. Prioritize sleep, this could easily be causing all of your problems.
2. Ease off your macro watching and try to get more nutritious foods in your calorie goal.
3. Maybe give yourself a bit of a workout break. Don't push to increase weight, just focus on maintaining until you get the exhaustion figured out.
4. What kind of a program are you working? Are you getting adequate rest days?
Hope you start feeling better!
The only thing I would add to this ^^^ would be to maybe increase your calorie goal for a week or two, until you start getting back to yourself. The reason is because of the mention of cycling between trying to be "perfect" and bingeing. Also, stop aiming for perfection. Aim for good enough. It will take a lot of stress off of what you are doing.
I'm think of raising it to 2,000. Or should I go more? My maintenance amount seems to be 2,300.
Heck, maybe I should take this opportunity to see what my maintenance calories are, as I've never really found out by trial and error.
Why not give yourself a range? Set up fats and proteins as minimums, and then for calories aim for between 2000 and 2300. Just for a couple weeks. That will give you time to explore foods and how they effect you (some people feel draggy on lower carb, particularly if they are working out, others are fine with it).
I found this particularly helpful when I started:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1
I know it's difficult when you are aiming for perfect, and being off drives you a little batty, but at the same time, learning to let go of some of that was among some of the best things I did during this process.
Focus on what you are gaining, rather than on giving up stuff. Work in an extra serving or two of veggies per day rather than cutting out all sugar (which would make me want to kick kittens). The all or nothing mentality (which I also struggle with) has caused so much grief over the years. Take a breath step back a bit and really think about your end goal. Doing something good enough daily will get you further ahead than doing it perfectly 10% of the time (based on 3 perfect days in a month). Does that make sense?
This is great. It's funny, I never thought of using a calorie range. I'm SO black and white!
And that link was super helpful!
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trustymutsi wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »trustymutsi wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I agree that you need to stop expecting consistent gains in your lifting, especially when you're eating at a deficit and sleep deprived.
IMHO the order of importance you probably need to deal with:
1. Prioritize sleep, this could easily be causing all of your problems.
2. Ease off your macro watching and try to get more nutritious foods in your calorie goal.
3. Maybe give yourself a bit of a workout break. Don't push to increase weight, just focus on maintaining until you get the exhaustion figured out.
4. What kind of a program are you working? Are you getting adequate rest days?
Hope you start feeling better!
The only thing I would add to this ^^^ would be to maybe increase your calorie goal for a week or two, until you start getting back to yourself. The reason is because of the mention of cycling between trying to be "perfect" and bingeing. Also, stop aiming for perfection. Aim for good enough. It will take a lot of stress off of what you are doing.
I'm think of raising it to 2,000. Or should I go more? My maintenance amount seems to be 2,300.
Heck, maybe I should take this opportunity to see what my maintenance calories are, as I've never really found out by trial and error.
Why not give yourself a range? Set up fats and proteins as minimums, and then for calories aim for between 2000 and 2300. Just for a couple weeks. That will give you time to explore foods and how they effect you (some people feel draggy on lower carb, particularly if they are working out, others are fine with it).
I found this particularly helpful when I started:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1
I know it's difficult when you are aiming for perfect, and being off drives you a little batty, but at the same time, learning to let go of some of that was among some of the best things I did during this process.
Focus on what you are gaining, rather than on giving up stuff. Work in an extra serving or two of veggies per day rather than cutting out all sugar (which would make me want to kick kittens). The all or nothing mentality (which I also struggle with) has caused so much grief over the years. Take a breath step back a bit and really think about your end goal. Doing something good enough daily will get you further ahead than doing it perfectly 10% of the time (based on 3 perfect days in a month). Does that make sense?
This is great. It's funny, I never thought of using a calorie range. I'm SO black and white!
And that link was super helpful!
Awesome. Now get some sleep and let us know how it goes.2 -
Just to go off on a tangent I haven't seen mentioned: You have a bunch of symptoms - for a lack of a better term - that can be signs of undereating, or signs of unresolved behavioral issues. I'm talking about the exhaustion, headaches, binges, etc.
I suspect that all are correct that sleep is your key issue. But I think the idea of a 2-week maintenance break is a good one, as is deload for the weight training, alongside the sleep. After that, I'd endorse your idea of eating at 2000 (or 2000 plus 50% of exercise) for a while, like maybe a month.
You haven't been able to stick to a calorie deficit long enough to see whether the calculator-estimated TDEE/NEAT is accurate for you or not. So, going for 0.5-1 pound a week for a bit may help you figure out whether part of the problem really is insufficient intake (i.e., if you see loss > 0.5 pound a week on what is theoretically 0.5 pound a week deficit), and - with the sleep - give you something do-able enough that you can start to groove in some good eating behaviors more easily. If your loss rate at 2000 isn't excessive, you always have the option of cutting a bit more, with better habits in play to support you.
You really probably don't want to be losing more than that 0.5-1 pound a week, anyway, at your current weight, with only 20 pounds to lose, and strength/muscularity goals besides.
(I'm a 5'5" 130-something pound 62-year-old woman, sedentary outside of intentional exercise. I lose slowly - half a pound a week, maybe a bit less - at 1850 calories + 100% of exercise (2100-2300 gross most days). I'd admit I'm a darned good calorie burner for my demographic for some reason, but you could turn out to have a higher than average intake requirement, too, even though it's rare. There's no reason to target a quick loss rate, when you're already having compliance problems, and don't have a track record to know whether the estimates are right for you or not). Take a break, then a slow on-ramp to improvements, I'd suggest.
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Black and White. All or Nothing. This is what dieting does to our thinking. Food gurus and books have been written to encourage and enable this thinking. It's the root cause of yoyo dieting and the root rot that remains in a dieter's brain all of the days of their life until you choose to pull it out.
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Just to go off on a tangent I haven't seen mentioned: You have a bunch of symptoms - for a lack of a better term - that can be signs of undereating, or signs of unresolved behavioral issues. I'm talking about the exhaustion, headaches, binges, etc.
I suspect that all are correct that sleep is your key issue. But I think the idea of a 2-week maintenance break is a good one, as is deload for the weight training, alongside the sleep. After that, I'd endorse your idea of eating at 2000 (or 2000 plus 50% of exercise) for a while, like maybe a month.
You haven't been able to stick to a calorie deficit long enough to see whether the calculator-estimated TDEE/NEAT is accurate for you or not. So, going for 0.5-1 pound a week for a bit may help you figure out whether part of the problem really is insufficient intake (i.e., if you see loss > 0.5 pound a week on what is theoretically 0.5 pound a week deficit), and - with the sleep - give you something do-able enough that you can start to groove in some good eating behaviors more easily. If your loss rate at 2000 isn't excessive, you always have the option of cutting a bit more, with better habits in play to support you.
You really probably don't want to be losing more than that 0.5-1 pound a week, anyway, at your current weight, with only 20 pounds to lose, and strength/muscularity goals besides.
(I'm a 5'5" 130-something pound 62-year-old woman, sedentary outside of intentional exercise. I lose slowly - half a pound a week, maybe a bit less - at 1850 calories + 100% of exercise (2100-2300 gross most days). I'd admit I'm a darned good calorie burner for my demographic for some reason, but you could turn out to have a higher than average intake requirement, too, even though it's rare. There's no reason to target a quick loss rate, when you're already having compliance problems, and don't have a track record to know whether the estimates are right for you or not). Take a break, then a slow on-ramp to improvements, I'd suggest.
Yeah, wow, if you're losing .5 a week at 1,850, and you're 5'5" 130 lbs, I MUST be eating too low a calorie amount.
I'll up it for a month and see where it goes.
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1
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Other than the sleep and the calorie count that everyone else has already covered, I'm wondering if maybe what you are experiencing is also due to the lower number of carbs. Less than 100 is pretty low, and even 130-150g is considered "lower" than the average intake. That could also explain your headache, feelings of tiredness, and hitting a wall on your lifts, so that's something else to maybe consider if you don't see improvement with increased sleep and calories.3
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What I would do is eat at your maintenance level for a couple of weeks and just start logging everything without changing your normal diet or exercise plan. Work on getting enough sleep.
When your sleep is back on track look at gradual changes.
Set your goal to lose .5 lb a week and make small dietary adjustments. Maybe start with getting the recoomended protein and a few more vegetable or fruit servings n your day. If you like sweet things it probably won't be sustainable to drastically cut out sugar.2 -
Other than the sleep and the calorie count that everyone else has already covered, I'm wondering if maybe what you are experiencing is also due to the lower number of carbs. Less than 100 is pretty low, and even 130-150g is considered "lower" than the average intake. That could also explain your headache, feelings of tiredness, and hitting a wall on your lifts, so that's something else to maybe consider if you don't see improvement with increased sleep and calories.
Good info. Thanks!
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What I would do is eat at your maintenance level for a couple of weeks and just start logging everything without changing your normal diet or exercise plan. Work on getting enough sleep.
When your sleep is back on track look at gradual changes.
Set your goal to lose .5 lb a week and make small dietary adjustments. Maybe start with getting the recoomended protein and a few more vegetable or fruit servings n your day. If you like sweet things it probably won't be sustainable to drastically cut out sugar.
This is what I'm planning on doing, thanks!
My only struggle is figuring out the proper amount of protein. Info varies wildly online. I won't worry about it for now and stick to about 140g a day.
My focus will be sleep, calories, nutritious foods, and not overdoing training.1 -
trustymutsi wrote: »What I would do is eat at your maintenance level for a couple of weeks and just start logging everything without changing your normal diet or exercise plan. Work on getting enough sleep.
When your sleep is back on track look at gradual changes.
Set your goal to lose .5 lb a week and make small dietary adjustments. Maybe start with getting the recoomended protein and a few more vegetable or fruit servings n your day. If you like sweet things it probably won't be sustainable to drastically cut out sugar.
This is what I'm planning on doing, thanks!
My only struggle is figuring out the proper amount of protein. Info varies wildly online. I won't worry about it for now and stick to about 140g a day.
You may need to play around with that. That's why I suggested using protein (and fat) as minimums. Personally, when I keep my protein a bit higher, I feel less hungry. Not everyone is going to feel that way. The other consideration is when you are trying to lose weight, it's valuable to keep protein up to help preserve the muscle to have (along with exercise). It will take some trial and error to find what works for you.2 -
Just a little observation to tack on to all the good advice you have so willingly taken on board and are implementing.
When you are ready to get back to your deficit and lifting remember to eat back the calories you burn through exercise.
I know you are pretty sedentary, but your basic calorie goal has accounted for that. When you lift you are burning calories, not a lot, but enough that for some (me most definately) it can be enough to make the difference between a good recovery, and a gradual decline in energy levels in every day life.
Under the cardio tab in the exercise portion of MFP there is an entry for weight lifting, use it. Then monitor your results. If you are losing more than you should be up the calorie by 10-20%, less, lower the calorie by a set percentage.
Cheers, h.
ETA: MFP is set up expecting one to eat back exercise calories.6 -
trustymutsi wrote: »Keep this simple.
You're tired - get more sleep. Prioritize it.
You're being too aggressive in this process. Either lose fat or build muscle. This requires months of cutting & bulking or attempting a recomposition, which takes months/years, not days/weeks.
Build your deficit to a more manageable level or move to maintenance and take a "break" for a week. For the strength training I recommend taking a deload week and work your way back up.
This is a life long pursuit. Check your pace.
Awesome points. Thanks. I do try and hurry the process, and then burn out.
What do you think of me going up to 2,000 calories/day?
Also, when deloading, how much less weight should I lift?
The key to long term success is identifying "bad" habits that don't support your long term goals and replacing these with "good" habits. During your break run through this exercise - write down 5 "bad" habits you want to change that aren't serving your goals and prioritize these 1-5. Cross off 2-5 and focus on #1. Give this at least a month and you must replace this habit with another one -it's how our brains function. Once the habit becomes ingrained and part of your routine then repeat this exercise.
I would recommend shifting to 2000-2300 kcals/day for the next two weeks.
I would recommend a large deload, something around 40% and give your body a much needed break.
I recommend you prioritize sleep and take time off for some time management. There are 168 hours in a week. Utilize each hour with purpose - including rest.
It's a marathon, not a sprint.4
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