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Soda Tax?
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peaceout_aly wrote: »They recently implemented this in Philadelphia and I don't think they really saw a difference in purchases. Just like the bag tax in MD. People are still going to buy their juice and soda, I'd be more concerned with properly educating children about health to make a bigger impact.
Yes I work in Philadelphia, live in NJ.
All the tax did was hurt businesses in the city limits that sold sugar(diet as well)beverages so a lot of ppl also started to food shop outside city.
Not a great idea, but....I don't buy soda(diet or reg) while at work-so in some ways the principal works.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
If the government is paying for health care and the *kitten* that people are putting in their bodies is contributing to health problems it approaches a situation where government has a right to step in.
You live off the grid, eat yourself to poor health, you die and the scavengers take care of your carcass no government involvement.
So maybe we simply stop the government for giving us all the bill for healthcare...
Personal responsibility seems to be a better deterrent to bad behavior than shared responsibility as assigned by elected representatives. Who, as experience shows, are more about getting re-elected than they are about actually solving any problems.
I got fat because I made poor choices. Not because of any industry or external responsibility. I own that crap. It's my job, not the taxpayer, nor my neighbor, nor the food industry, nor anyone other than me to face the consequences and fix the problem.
Full stop.7 -
You can't blame this country's health problems purely on soda. For one, there were sodas around 60 years ago when a much much smaller percentage of the population was considered overweight. So logic would dictate that people cutting out sugary drinks isn't the one big change needed to fix the epidemic. Taxing soda would just be taking more money out of people's pockets. I doubt it would be enough to deter consumption.
What we really need to do is put nutritional education more in the spotlight in schools. I've read many studies that show students who attend schools with peer lead nutritional education programs end up eating better than those who don't go to school with consistent food education. Also, dealing with food deserts in low income areas should be a priority too. Essentially anything that helps people to make healthy, educated decisions for themselves.
I don't think the rate of smokers had come down because the taxes are high on cigarettes. I think it had gone down because kids have been told since they're 5 that smoking gives you cancer. Education was successful in that aspect, why not with junk food too?2 -
I like sugary drinks on occasion, I hardly think i should be punished for it. I'm a "normal" weight so should we just start taxing the obese? Maybe make them step on a scale anytime they buy any food at all to see what their "tax rate" is since, you know, ALL food has the potential to fatten us up. This is a ridiculous idea lol3
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WinoGelato wrote: »See, I am not advocating for or against any form of sugar...I am asking a simple economics question. Why should there be a discussion on whether or not to implement a tax on something that we are already subsidizing as a taxpayer?
I think it’s a fair question. There’s a VERY long thread in debate called “Should Junk Food Be Taxed” (sorry cant link it as I’m on the app but you might be able to search and find it) where there was extensive discussion about the complexity of implementing such a tax, what the money should be used for, and the overall economics of such policies. I know corn subsidies were discussed but I don’t recall any details of the opinions.
I don’t think you’re going to get much of a complex macro economic discussion out of this thread it seems more like the kind where some popular blog articles and infographics will be referenced and then it will quickly die out...
If I recall, someone mentioned that much/most of that subsidized corn actually goes to feed livestock, thus subsidizing meat (protein) prices here.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »See, I am not advocating for or against any form of sugar...I am asking a simple economics question. Why should there be a discussion on whether or not to implement a tax on something that we are already subsidizing as a taxpayer?
I think it’s a fair question. There’s a VERY long thread in debate called “Should Junk Food Be Taxed” (sorry cant link it as I’m on the app but you might be able to search and find it) where there was extensive discussion about the complexity of implementing such a tax, what the money should be used for, and the overall economics of such policies. I know corn subsidies were discussed but I don’t recall any details of the opinions.
I don’t think you’re going to get much of a complex macro economic discussion out of this thread it seems more like the kind where some popular blog articles and infographics will be referenced and then it will quickly die out...
If I recall, someone mentioned that much/most of that subsidized corn actually goes to feed livestock, thus subsidizing meat (protein) prices here.
I don't know if it is my post you're thinking of, but I think I made a post like that at one point. A large portion of the corn and soybeans that are subsidized in the US are fed to animals. So people who say "we should just subsidize meat" are ignoring the fact that we're already basically doing that.
The idea that all the corn is going to corn syrup and Doritos just isn't accurate.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »See, I am not advocating for or against any form of sugar...I am asking a simple economics question. Why should there be a discussion on whether or not to implement a tax on something that we are already subsidizing as a taxpayer?
I think it’s a fair question. There’s a VERY long thread in debate called “Should Junk Food Be Taxed” (sorry cant link it as I’m on the app but you might be able to search and find it) where there was extensive discussion about the complexity of implementing such a tax, what the money should be used for, and the overall economics of such policies. I know corn subsidies were discussed but I don’t recall any details of the opinions.
I don’t think you’re going to get much of a complex macro economic discussion out of this thread it seems more like the kind where some popular blog articles and infographics will be referenced and then it will quickly die out...
If I recall, someone mentioned that much/most of that subsidized corn actually goes to feed livestock, thus subsidizing meat (protein) prices here.
I don't know if it is my post you're thinking of, but I think I made a post like that at one point. A large portion of the corn and soybeans that are subsidized in the US are fed to animals. So people who say "we should just subsidize meat" are ignoring the fact that we're already basically doing that.
The idea that all the corn is going to corn syrup and Doritos just isn't accurate.
Although the "healthy food is SOooo expensive crowd" is usually whining that either their pre-made ready-to-eat food isn't cheap or that some specialty fresh produce item that they HAVE to have (that has to be shipped from halfway around the world because it doesn't grow remotely near where they live) isn't cheap... so subsidized meat probably won't help them much.. especially the vegan ones.1 -
Instead of adding taxes we should pay teachers better to educate people about nutrition and staying healthy.4
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katphi1618 wrote: »Instead of adding taxes we should pay teachers better to educate people about nutrition and staying healthy.
Eliminating the bloat of administration would make this possible and I don't think you're going to get much resistance from the teachers.0 -
No I was just having fun. I just sated keto so carbs are now a sin. I think "sin" taxes are a waste of time. Look at cigarette taxes. They was a large settlement to offset future health care costs. I will bet each state spent the entire amount in year one. They also became dependent on the sales tax revenue. The tax has forced many to quit which is probably good but also punishes the poor and uneducated population. Now that sales are dropping so is the revenue. Next up is sugar and fat tax for sinful foods.2
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I live in New York State, land of the taxed, and it doesn't seem to affect people buying soda.1
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katphi1618 wrote: »Instead of adding taxes we should pay teachers better to educate people about nutrition and staying healthy.
Eliminating the bloat of administration would make this possible and I don't think you're going to get much resistance from the teachers.
a ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Right. Teachers are already teaching way to much, they are not going to want to take on more lessons because kids parents don't want to actually parent.
Honest to God had a teacher say the school should shell out thousands to take the kids to some colonial reenactment because 'some of them have parents that won't take them!' It's not the schools job to do everything.
I'm not a teacher or administrator at a school, just an informed tax payer.2 -
On the rare occasion that I drink soda, it's usually mixed with alcohol.3
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TheRoadDog wrote: »On the rare occasion that I drink soda, it's usually mixed with alcohol.
ditto0 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey
I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation 10 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
You keep saying this as if they don't already exist.
It's been a long time since I've studied the NHS. I completed a comparative study of three different health care systems, but this would have been about 7 years ago. My understanding at that time was that doctors were incentivized to improve their patient health markers. Which is a very interesting approach to health improvement and harm reduction, which could certainly help reduce the downstream costs of a system by front loading into health promotion focus. Efficacy of how this has been implemented in the NHS is a completely different conversation. Imposing a sugar tax does nothing to educate people.3 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
Please stop using the term "free". This is intellectually dishonest.
Free in this context means service provided by taxpayers.
As taxes are limited, service is limited. As demand is unlimited and service is limited, care must be rationed by some means.
You've stated that it is acceptable for a government to ration care, but now need to ration between those who hold themselves personally responsible and those who are not personally responsible.
If only there was some way to do this...
8 -
The NHS is in crisis and failing http://obesityhealthalliance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/OHA-briefing-paper-Costs-of-Obesity-.pdf3
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Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.7 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
I heard rumor of something like this found in the forests and valleys where the unicorns roam. It's a bit of a treacherous hike, but a gold mine for anyone who locates it.4
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