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Soda Tax?
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Already applied in UK for all drinks containing sugar1
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Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey
I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
TANSTAFL.
Don't confuse something that is paid for by tax dollars as being equivalent to being free. Government provided health care is not free. Perhaps it is better than privatized systems, perhaps not...but one thing it isn't is free. Just because you don't pay for a specific doctor visit does not mean you don't pay for your health care.
What you are basically asking for is for people who are in physically poor shape due to their choices should pay more into the system than people who are more fit due to their choices. Okay....well then why not just do that directly and apply a tax on people who are overweight? Why soda? For one thing such a tax could be adjusted for income so that it wasn't an excessive burden on those who were low income which applying taxes to food and drink would not since that is a flat tax regardless of income.
I have to assume the reason that you wouldn't propose taxing obese people for being obese is that that seems wrong somehow...unethical. But you really want to punish people who are obese financially in order to help pay for their healthcare somehow so instead you propose to tax foods or drinks you feel they are likely to consume. But given that is indirect what it means is that some obese people will pay no extra money because they happen to not consume that particular item while other physically fit healthy people will end up paying extra because they just happen to be consumers of that particular item.
Choosing to drink soda doesn't mean you are obese...being obese means you are obese. So if you want to tax obesity...then tax obesity.13 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
I heard rumor of something like this found in the forests and valleys where the unicorns roam. It's a bit of a treacherous hike, but a gold mine for anyone who locates it.
Ponce DeLeon tried to seek the source of the fabled fountain of Coke Zero. The unicorns did not take kindly to his intrusion. The winds whisper the tales of what they did to him as as warning for all fools who would follow.
Unicorns are not to be trifled with.5 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
I heard rumor of something like this found in the forests and valleys where the unicorns roam. It's a bit of a treacherous hike, but a gold mine for anyone who locates it.
Is it the road to El Dorado? It is down south somewhere. The bears are treacherous.2 -
No. People can and will make their own choices. I don't think raising the cost of litres of soda even by a whole dollar would stop those who want it. Some diabetics can need juice to quickly help their hypoglycemia. People can consume sugary things within a healthy diet. Why punish everyone because of those that overindulge?2
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nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
I heard rumor of something like this found in the forests and valleys where the unicorns roam. It's a bit of a treacherous hike, but a gold mine for anyone who locates it.
Ponce DeLeon tried to seek the source of the fabled fountain of Coke Zero. The unicorns did not take kindly to his intrusion. The winds whisper the tales of what they did to him as as warning for all fools who would follow.
Unicorns are not to be trifled with.L1zardQueen wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
I heard rumor of something like this found in the forests and valleys where the unicorns roam. It's a bit of a treacherous hike, but a gold mine for anyone who locates it.
Is it the road to El Dorado? It is down south somewhere. The bears are treacherous.
Coke zero, unicorns, and bears, oh my!1 -
coffee tax -- i dont drink it
but seriously, do you need government molding your food choices? i don't2 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
Are you not concerned with dental hygiene? People wouldn't have any teeth left if they drank all that diet soda, right???
3 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
You keep saying this as if they don't already exist.
It's been a long time since I've studied the NHS. I completed a comparative study of three different health care systems, but this would have been about 7 years ago. My understanding at that time was that doctors were incentivized to improve their patient health markers. Which is a very interesting approach to health improvement and harm reduction, which could certainly help reduce the downstream costs of a system by front loading into health promotion focus. Efficacy of how this has been implemented in the NHS is a completely different conversation. Imposing a sugar tax does nothing to educate people.
I have actually mentioned that it’s already been implemented in the UK so I’m very aware that it exists imposing a sugar tax actually forces people into buying sugar free versions which will help towards the bigger picture of obesity etc 12 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
Please stop using the term "free". This is intellectually dishonest.
Free in this context means service provided by taxpayers.
As taxes are limited, service is limited. As demand is unlimited and service is limited, care must be rationed by some means.
You've stated that it is acceptable for a government to ration care, but now need to ration between those who hold themselves personally responsible and those who are not personally responsible.
If only there was some way to do this...
The NHs is seen as a free health care service as we don’t have to pay for our treatments and doctors appointments etc. Yes it’s funded by 80% of general tax but it’s still a free service. Yes I think those who binge eat or smoke or drink and develop issues are of course entitled to some care, but really it is a massive waste of the NHS, would people still do that if they knew they had to pay for their healthcare? Probably not ..8 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
My point is that it does exist (which you know but wanted to be sarcastic .. nice one ..) and it exists because sugar tax happened and companies were forced to create them .. which is why I feel that there should be sugar tax elsewhere7 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
TANSTAFL.
Don't confuse something that is paid for by tax dollars as being equivalent to being free. Government provided health care is not free. Perhaps it is better than privatized systems, perhaps not...but one thing it isn't is free. Just because you don't pay for a specific doctor visit does not mean you don't pay for your health care.
What you are basically asking for is for people who are in physically poor shape due to their choices should pay more into the system than people who are more fit due to their choices. Okay....well then why not just do that directly and apply a tax on people who are overweight? Why soda? For one thing such a tax could be adjusted for income so that it wasn't an excessive burden on those who were low income which applying taxes to food and drink would not since that is a flat tax regardless of income.
I have to assume the reason that you wouldn't propose taxing obese people for being obese is that that seems wrong somehow...unethical. But you really want to punish people who are obese financially in order to help pay for their healthcare somehow so instead you propose to tax foods or drinks you feel they are likely to consume. But given that is indirect what it means is that some obese people will pay no extra money because they happen to not consume that particular item while other physically fit healthy people will end up paying extra because they just happen to be consumers of that particular item.
Choosing to drink soda doesn't mean you are obese...being obese means you are obese. So if you want to tax obesity...then tax obesity.
I do get what your saying, but the NHS is seen as a free health service because we don’t need to pay for our treatments and ambulance call out etc .. I’d rather pay more tax and NI and keep this sort of service running as it’s much more beneficial financially
I believe that people who make bad choices and binge eat, binge smoke etc are doing so at their own risk and our NHS service shouldn’t have to suffer for it .. we have it so bad to a point where no beds are available in some hospitals .. I know 100% everyone is entitled to health care no matter their situation but it’s just frustrating when it’s a drunk person, or a heavy smoker etc
Drinking soda moderately is absolutely fine, but this whole debate is on “soda tax” and it’s something I really think should be implemented in other countries, as it seems to be working here in the UK.5 -
100_PROOF_ wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
Are you not concerned with dental hygiene? People wouldn't have any teeth left if they drank all that diet soda, right???
Haha yes this is very true! But I guess the dentists aren’t “free” (treading carefully with this term as it upsets a few people)0 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
You keep saying this as if they don't already exist.
It's been a long time since I've studied the NHS. I completed a comparative study of three different health care systems, but this would have been about 7 years ago. My understanding at that time was that doctors were incentivized to improve their patient health markers. Which is a very interesting approach to health improvement and harm reduction, which could certainly help reduce the downstream costs of a system by front loading into health promotion focus. Efficacy of how this has been implemented in the NHS is a completely different conversation. Imposing a sugar tax does nothing to educate people.
I have actually mentioned that it’s already been implemented in the UK so I’m very aware that it exists imposing a sugar tax actually forces people into buying sugar free versions which will help towards the bigger picture of obesity etc
First, it doesn't force people to do anything. Second, what makes you think that if people are likely to over consume calories that they won't replace high sugar drinks with high calorie foods?1 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
My point is that it does exist (which you know but wanted to be sarcastic .. nice one ..) and it exists because sugar tax happened and companies were forced to create them .. which is why I feel that there should be sugar tax elsewhere
So you're saying artificially-sweetened drinks were created as a result of a sugar tax? Was the first sugar tax implemented in the 1960's?3 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
My point is that it does exist (which you know but wanted to be sarcastic .. nice one ..) and it exists because sugar tax happened and companies were forced to create them .. which is why I feel that there should be sugar tax elsewhere
Wait. You think products like Tab, Diet Coke, crystal light, etc which have been around for decades, were created because of sugar taxes?4 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »...Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture...
If only such a thing existed.
If only.
My point is that it does exist (which you know but wanted to be sarcastic .. nice one ..) and it exists because sugar tax happened and companies were forced to create them .. which is why I feel that there should be sugar tax elsewhere
Sugar free drinks existed long before sugar taxes were implemented.
From here:
http://www.historyofsoftdrinks.com/soft-drink-history/diet-soda-history/First examples of sweet soda drinks that contained no or very little sugar started appearing in 1950s and early 1960s.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1619208/sugar-tax-uk-fizzy-drinks-coke-sugar-cost/The sugar tax came into force on April 6, 2018
from the same article:A standard can of regular coke has gone up by around 8p for a 70p can.
A 1.75ml bottle of coke has increased from roughly £1.25 to £1.49.
Do you think this increase is sufficient enough to stop people from buying them?2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
You keep saying this as if they don't already exist.
It's been a long time since I've studied the NHS. I completed a comparative study of three different health care systems, but this would have been about 7 years ago. My understanding at that time was that doctors were incentivized to improve their patient health markers. Which is a very interesting approach to health improvement and harm reduction, which could certainly help reduce the downstream costs of a system by front loading into health promotion focus. Efficacy of how this has been implemented in the NHS is a completely different conversation. Imposing a sugar tax does nothing to educate people.
I have actually mentioned that it’s already been implemented in the UK so I’m very aware that it exists imposing a sugar tax actually forces people into buying sugar free versions which will help towards the bigger picture of obesity etc
First, it doesn't force people to do anything. Second, what makes you think that if people are likely to over consume calories that they won't replace high sugar drinks with high calorie foods?
Well it kind of does .. I’m sure as hell not paying extra for high sugar drinks when I can get sugar free versions cheaper3 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
TANSTAFL.
Don't confuse something that is paid for by tax dollars as being equivalent to being free. Government provided health care is not free. Perhaps it is better than privatized systems, perhaps not...but one thing it isn't is free. Just because you don't pay for a specific doctor visit does not mean you don't pay for your health care.
What you are basically asking for is for people who are in physically poor shape due to their choices should pay more into the system than people who are more fit due to their choices. Okay....well then why not just do that directly and apply a tax on people who are overweight? Why soda? For one thing such a tax could be adjusted for income so that it wasn't an excessive burden on those who were low income which applying taxes to food and drink would not since that is a flat tax regardless of income.
I have to assume the reason that you wouldn't propose taxing obese people for being obese is that that seems wrong somehow...unethical. But you really want to punish people who are obese financially in order to help pay for their healthcare somehow so instead you propose to tax foods or drinks you feel they are likely to consume. But given that is indirect what it means is that some obese people will pay no extra money because they happen to not consume that particular item while other physically fit healthy people will end up paying extra because they just happen to be consumers of that particular item.
Choosing to drink soda doesn't mean you are obese...being obese means you are obese. So if you want to tax obesity...then tax obesity.
I do get what your saying, but the NHS is seen as a free health service because we don’t need to pay for our treatments and ambulance call out etc .. I’d rather pay more tax and NI and keep this sort of service running as it’s much more beneficial financially
I believe that people who make bad choices and binge eat, binge smoke etc are doing so at their own risk and our NHS service shouldn’t have to suffer for it .. we have it so bad to a point where no beds are available in some hospitals .. I know 100% everyone is entitled to health care no matter their situation but it’s just frustrating when it’s a drunk person, or a heavy smoker etc
Drinking soda moderately is absolutely fine, but this whole debate is on “soda tax” and it’s something I really think should be implemented in other countries, as it seems to be working here in the UK.
It is “seen as free” because you are looking at this strictly from a consumer perspective and one that shows a blatant lack of understanding of how healthcare, social policy, and economics works.7 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Sarahfaster wrote: »Do you think there should be a tax on sweet beverages like soda? or maybe even juice?
We have already implemented that here in the UK, we are paying like 18p or 24p per litre extra now depending on how much extra sugar has been added to the drink. currently the revenue has fallen due to fewer drinks containing this amount of sugar are on sale, Irn Bru have even stopped making their original full sugar drink now, and other companies like Britvic have cut sugar across their product range. I think it’s good that the government is actively trying to cut back people’s sugar intake and it has forced companies to create lower sugar versions of the drinks so we don’t feel the sting! I think obesity is caused by people eating wayy too many calories and sugar is a big factor in it, it makes me wonder if they are going to start taxing full fat products next or something!
Now, and I lived in Germany for several years after I graduated from University (many moons ago) and I had the chance to go to London numerous times on business so I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE, I would have to disagree with you.
I am of the mindset that it is NEVER a good idea for the govt to tax people to "control their behavior". It is not the govt business what I put in my body. Additionally, my concern is that the govt picks on "this group" one week...soon thereafter they pick on "another group" and so on. Eventually, they are going to pick on 6'0" @ 205lbs bald white guys in their early 50's who earn more than $XXX,XXX a year. Plus, those guys - and here comes my bias based on a lot of experience - are not nearly smart enough to get this stuff correct.
In my opinion, if I want to eat pork rinds all day long (have never had pork rinds, so no idea what those are...but they seem to be "not very healthy" - whatever that means) then that is my choice and my right. Eventually, there could be some consequences. This, logically, brings up another conversation (about "fat people paying more for health insurance"). And, potentially another conversation (should the govt implement the "Stupid Tax"?).
Live and let live. If you want to drink Soda and eat Pork Rinds all day long, then knock yourself out. Have at it! Just don't ask me for any money (in any form) to subsidize your consumption (no matter soda and pork rinds or steak and eggs). But that is an whole other conversation! :-)
Anyway, like I said, I love a good debate. I find it very interesting and engaging to have good honest conversation with people from different countries and with people of different mindsets (not suggesting that because you are from a different country that you have a different mind set). I have the neatest conversations in the common kitchen here at work.
I look forward to your thoughts on what I am suggesting. Don't be shy....you are not going to hurt my feelings.
Hey I love a good debate too haha, so in my opinion I think that because the uks government provide a free health care service it’s important that they put measures in place, like how they’ve done, to ensure that people remain healthy. If everyone were to eat as much junk as they liked then we would have a crises and the NHS would just buckle. Creating sugar free drinks won’t tackle the whole problem but it will help towards the bigger picture. I don’t want to face health issues later on in life and ideally I think the NHS shouldn’t be wasted on helping people who have no self control, when there are others needing it who simply can’t help their situation
You keep saying this as if they don't already exist.
It's been a long time since I've studied the NHS. I completed a comparative study of three different health care systems, but this would have been about 7 years ago. My understanding at that time was that doctors were incentivized to improve their patient health markers. Which is a very interesting approach to health improvement and harm reduction, which could certainly help reduce the downstream costs of a system by front loading into health promotion focus. Efficacy of how this has been implemented in the NHS is a completely different conversation. Imposing a sugar tax does nothing to educate people.
I have actually mentioned that it’s already been implemented in the UK so I’m very aware that it exists imposing a sugar tax actually forces people into buying sugar free versions which will help towards the bigger picture of obesity etc
First, it doesn't force people to do anything. Second, what makes you think that if people are likely to over consume calories that they won't replace high sugar drinks with high calorie foods?
Well it kind of does .. I’m sure as hell not paying extra for high sugar drinks when I can get sugar free versions cheaper
I'm sorry that your income is such that 8p is your breaking point.5
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