Deadlifting with a trap bar, a true reflection of Barbell deadlift strength?

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LJay89
LJay89 Posts: 91 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So "friend" of mine has been lifting since January using a trap bar for deadlifting. He claims that for his 5x5 he can lift 200kg which means for his 1RM he thinks its probably 257kg putting him in the advanced weightlifting bracket using - https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift. (he is 120kg)

Don't get me wrong its an impressive set of numbers and trap bar deadlifting has its own benefits in terms of less strain on lower back and the ability to lift heavier weights. But i don't think you can compare like for like? Thoughts?

Replies

  • lorrpb
    lorrpb Posts: 11,464 Member
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    It's OK if your friend wants to think that, it's harmless. Every variation of every exercise is its own thing and can't be compared to others.
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    edited August 2018
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    LJay89 wrote: »
    So "friend" of mine has been lifting since January using a trap bar for deadlifting. He claims that for his 5x5 he can lift 200kg which means for his 1RM he thinks its probably 257kg putting him in the advanced weightlifting bracket using - https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift. (he is 120kg)

    Don't get me wrong its an impressive set of numbers and trap bar deadlifting has its own benefits in terms of less strain on lower back and the ability to lift heavier weights. But i don't think you can compare like for like? Thoughts?

    Unless the friend was a long time lifter coming back after a break, I'd call BS. Nobody is going from starting lifter ro 200 kg deadlift for reps in 8 months. Ask to see it.
  • LJay89
    LJay89 Posts: 91 Member
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    Packerjohn wrote: »
    LJay89 wrote: »
    So "friend" of mine has been lifting since January using a trap bar for deadlifting. He claims that for his 5x5 he can lift 200kg which means for his 1RM he thinks its probably 257kg putting him in the advanced weightlifting bracket using - https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift. (he is 120kg)

    Don't get me wrong its an impressive set of numbers and trap bar deadlifting has its own benefits in terms of less strain on lower back and the ability to lift heavier weights. But i don't think you can compare like for like? Thoughts?

    Unless the friend was a long time lifter coming back after a break, I'd call BS. Nobody is going from starting lifter ro 200 kg deadlift for reps in 8 months. Ask to see it.

    I also call massive bs.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    Packerjohn wrote: »
    LJay89 wrote: »
    So "friend" of mine has been lifting since January using a trap bar for deadlifting. He claims that for his 5x5 he can lift 200kg which means for his 1RM he thinks its probably 257kg putting him in the advanced weightlifting bracket using - https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift. (he is 120kg)

    Don't get me wrong its an impressive set of numbers and trap bar deadlifting has its own benefits in terms of less strain on lower back and the ability to lift heavier weights. But i don't think you can compare like for like? Thoughts?

    Unless the friend was a long time lifter coming back after a break, I'd call BS. Nobody is going from starting lifter ro 200 kg deadlift for reps in 8 months. Ask to see it.

    I'd just smile and say "That's nice". :D
  • curlsintherack
    curlsintherack Posts: 465 Member
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    The weight and reps with the trap bar are not out of the ordinary. Its positioned so that all the weight is centered on your body through the entire range of motion. Also most trap bars that I have seen have low and high handles and starting from the high handle position makes the lift much easier like pulling from blocks. my 1rm straight bar deadlift is 435lbs 197kg and my top trap bar deadlift with the standard height handles from 6-8 months ago was 475lbs 215kg. I have pulled a trap bar from blocks/high handles to see what I could hold in my hands to work on grip strength and had 525lbs 238kg on my bar before I was out of room for more plates. this was done at a bodyweight of around 220lbs 100kg.

    Using my numbers as a reference I don't believe that the trap bar deadlift translates into the straight bar deadlift pound for pound and I would be very surprised if your friend could deadlift as much as they thought. Your friend is still progressing forward and getting stronger though and that's all that matters.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
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    200kg 5x5 doesn't translate into a 1RM of 257kg. More like a generous 245kg. The accuracy is still flexed and be dependant on how much rest in between reps/sets. The closer to 1 rep will give a more accurate estimate. Anything more than 3reps doesn't "hold much weight" in accuracy when computing 1RM.

    That being said they are not the same lift and are not equal. As mentioned previously, most trap bars have elevated handles to the standard bar height which would drive the weight higher since the ROM is less.

    That being said, it's a viable direct supplimtary lift to the standard conventional especially if you turn the bar upside down and pull from standard bar height.

    I would just let him go on thinking he is where he is. Progress is progress and no need to nocebo his training.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,977 Member
    edited August 2018
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    If you are using the raised handles on a trap/hex bar, the movement is NOT the same as using a straight bar because you are cheating the movement by NOT bending as deeply at the start of the movement.

    This is why people say that trap/hex bar deadlifts are easier and are less stressful on their lower backs.

    On the other hand, if you flip the trap/hex bar over (or have a flat one, as I do), it is essentially the same movement; only the hand position is different.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
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    Chieflrg wrote: »
    That being said, it's a viable direct supplimtary lift to the standard conventional especially if you turn the bar upside down and pull from standard bar height.

    I would just let him go on thinking he is where he is. Progress is progress and no need to nocebo his training.

    This.

  • JonDrees
    JonDrees Posts: 161 Member
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    Most people I see are 5-15% stronger with a trap bar. If they use the high handles, it's probably closer to 25%.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
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    JonDrees wrote: »
    Most people I see are 5-15% stronger with a trap bar. If they use the high handles, it's probably closer to 25%.

    This is the best answer. I've extensively done both and trap bar is noticeably easier, even without using the taller handles.
  • giantrobot_powerlifting
    giantrobot_powerlifting Posts: 2,598 Member
    edited August 2018
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    This reminds me of the argument with this kid I used to work with a few years ago.

    He claimed that his 180kg deadlift, not touching the floor, on a Smith machine —with springs —was (kid you not) “basically the same” as my 180kg conventional deadlift from the floor.

    I asked him to train with me someday and prove it.

    He was always just too busy.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
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    I've done both Olympic bar and trap bar...I don't think you can do an apples to apples comparison. I'm notably "stronger" using a trap bar.

    I mostly do trap bar and RDLs these days.

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