Nutrition and non-athlete endurance activities
fishgutzy
Posts: 2,807 Member
First, I am not an athlete, nor do I pretend to be one on TV. I do not compete against anyone but myself in trying to set new personal records.
On my China trips I have "free time" due to being over 7000 miles from yard work and household projects.
On this trip I exceeded the record I set on the last trip for lap swimming distance. 13.2km in just under 5 hours (2:14/100m pace) [see why I don't compete? Too slow (and old) for that].
After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?
Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?
My main exercise is swimming. I swim 4 miles a day, (6.6km in China) 5 days a week. When time allows, I try to break previous personal records. Next target is 15.4km. (sets of 2200m)
On my China trips I have "free time" due to being over 7000 miles from yard work and household projects.
On this trip I exceeded the record I set on the last trip for lap swimming distance. 13.2km in just under 5 hours (2:14/100m pace) [see why I don't compete? Too slow (and old) for that].
After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?
Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?
My main exercise is swimming. I swim 4 miles a day, (6.6km in China) 5 days a week. When time allows, I try to break previous personal records. Next target is 15.4km. (sets of 2200m)
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Replies
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So long as you are well fuelled and meeting your nutritional goals for your activity, it doesn't matter if you view yourself as an athlete or not.
Enjoy your swims.
Cheers, h.0 -
If the question is, would your swimming be better if you ate more than 130 calories beforehand... only one way to find out.
Or you dont have to... its entirely up to you.1 -
At 58 I'm not "an athlete" - I'm a semi-retired old fart so too old and slow to compete against youngsters.
I do endurance cycle rides and events up to 130 miles/8+ hours
But my self-competitive fire still burns just as brightly. Setting new PB's is really, really rewarding.
To do that I need to maximise my performance with good training AND NUTRITION.
"After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim. "
You should ask yourself why you didn't add some carbs to the water and electrolytes. Taking that long for your heart rate to recover isn't a great sign.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
That's really a bit silly if you are interested in endurance performance. I had a big bowl of granola with milk and a scoop of protein powder before yesterday's big training ride. I more than burned that off with my c. 1700 calorie burn.
"When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?"
Yes - in reality as we are doing athletic events/exercise we are athletes (just not very good ones perhaps?)
"Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?"
Yes!
It doesn't mean you need to eat boiled chicken and brown rice 7 days a week but not fuelling endurance exercise (training and record attempts) is a huge handicap. I eat normally for most "normal days" which for me includes rides up to 2hrs but very intense or 3hrs and up rides I need to think about eating for performance.
I'm doing my biggest event of the year in a few weeks and I fully intend to be on the start line prepared as best I possibly can be and that includes my nutrition and fuelling strategies. It's hard enough keeping up with riders in their prime without adding an unnecessary handicap.
2 -
When you drive your car, you aren't a race car driver, but your still put gas in the tank and make sure the car works. Same for exercise. If you are undertaking a physical endeavor or challenge, fuel and train appropriately to perform your best at that challenge.6
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At 58 I'm not "an athlete" - I'm a semi-retired old fart so too old and slow to compete against youngsters.
I do endurance cycle rides and events up to 130 miles/8+ hours
But my self-competitive fire still burns just as brightly. Setting new PB's is really, really rewarding.
To do that I need to maximise my performance with good training AND NUTRITION.
"After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim. "
You should ask yourself why you didn't add some carbs to the water and electrolytes. Taking that long for your heart rate to recover isn't a great sign.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
That's really a bit silly if you are interested in endurance performance. I had a big bowl of granola with milk and a scoop of protein powder before yesterday's big training ride. I more than burned that off with my c. 1700 calorie burn.
"When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?"
Yes - in reality as we are doing athletic events/exercise we are athletes (just not very good ones perhaps?)
"Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?"
Yes!
It doesn't mean you need to eat boiled chicken and brown rice 7 days a week but not fuelling endurance exercise (training and record attempts) is a huge handicap. I eat normally for most "normal days" which for me includes rides up to 2hrs but very intense or 3hrs and up rides I need to think about eating for performance.
I'm doing my biggest event of the year in a few weeks and I fully intend to be on the start line prepared as best I possibly can be and that includes my nutrition and fuelling strategies. It's hard enough keeping up with riders in their prime without adding an unnecessary handicap.
I usually have a double scoop protein shake about an hour before my weekday 6.6km swim.
Yesterday, I somehow forgot.
Hard to find decent supplements in China. But next time I'm home I'll find something that i can bring for my next trip.
If I try to hit the next benchmark on this trip, I'll be sure to have a better breakfast. The gym doesn't open until 10AM here.
I may be rationalizing not eating much before hand because I still have "stored energy" to burn.
0 -
At 58 I'm not "an athlete" - I'm a semi-retired old fart so too old and slow to compete against youngsters.
I do endurance cycle rides and events up to 130 miles/8+ hours
But my self-competitive fire still burns just as brightly. Setting new PB's is really, really rewarding.
To do that I need to maximise my performance with good training AND NUTRITION.
"After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim. "
You should ask yourself why you didn't add some carbs to the water and electrolytes. Taking that long for your heart rate to recover isn't a great sign.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
That's really a bit silly if you are interested in endurance performance. I had a big bowl of granola with milk and a scoop of protein powder before yesterday's big training ride. I more than burned that off with my c. 1700 calorie burn.
"When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?"
Yes - in reality as we are doing athletic events/exercise we are athletes (just not very good ones perhaps?)
"Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?"
Yes!
It doesn't mean you need to eat boiled chicken and brown rice 7 days a week but not fuelling endurance exercise (training and record attempts) is a huge handicap. I eat normally for most "normal days" which for me includes rides up to 2hrs but very intense or 3hrs and up rides I need to think about eating for performance.
I'm doing my biggest event of the year in a few weeks and I fully intend to be on the start line prepared as best I possibly can be and that includes my nutrition and fuelling strategies. It's hard enough keeping up with riders in their prime without adding an unnecessary handicap.
I usually have a double scoop protein shake about an hour before my weekday 6.6km swim.
Yesterday, I somehow forgot.
Hard to find decent supplements in China. But next time I'm home I'll find something that i can bring for my next trip.
If I try to hit the next benchmark on this trip, I'll be sure to have a better breakfast. The gym doesn't open until 10AM here.
I may be rationalizing not eating much before hand because I still have "stored energy" to burn.
But you don't fuel cardio from protein.
You don't need supplements - they just have a convenience factor. There's nothing stopping you having some juice or even plain old sugar in your drinks. A friend who is a very high standard endurance athlete (right up to 24hr races) does most of his training on half juice/half water plus malt loaf.
We all have stored energy to use, but the point in optimal endurance exercise fuelling is that you are limited on how quickly/effectively you can access that stored energy.4 -
At 58 I'm not "an athlete" - I'm a semi-retired old fart so too old and slow to compete against youngsters.
I do endurance cycle rides and events up to 130 miles/8+ hours
But my self-competitive fire still burns just as brightly. Setting new PB's is really, really rewarding.
To do that I need to maximise my performance with good training AND NUTRITION.
"After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim. "
You should ask yourself why you didn't add some carbs to the water and electrolytes. Taking that long for your heart rate to recover isn't a great sign.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
That's really a bit silly if you are interested in endurance performance. I had a big bowl of granola with milk and a scoop of protein powder before yesterday's big training ride. I more than burned that off with my c. 1700 calorie burn.
"When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?"
Yes - in reality as we are doing athletic events/exercise we are athletes (just not very good ones perhaps?)
"Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?"
Yes!
It doesn't mean you need to eat boiled chicken and brown rice 7 days a week but not fuelling endurance exercise (training and record attempts) is a huge handicap. I eat normally for most "normal days" which for me includes rides up to 2hrs but very intense or 3hrs and up rides I need to think about eating for performance.
I'm doing my biggest event of the year in a few weeks and I fully intend to be on the start line prepared as best I possibly can be and that includes my nutrition and fuelling strategies. It's hard enough keeping up with riders in their prime without adding an unnecessary handicap.
I usually have a double scoop protein shake about an hour before my weekday 6.6km swim.
Yesterday, I somehow forgot.
Hard to find decent supplements in China. But next time I'm home I'll find something that i can bring for my next trip.
If I try to hit the next benchmark on this trip, I'll be sure to have a better breakfast. The gym doesn't open until 10AM here.
I may be rationalizing not eating much before hand because I still have "stored energy" to burn.
But you don't fuel cardio from protein.
You don't need supplements - they just have a convenience factor. There's nothing stopping you having some juice or even plain old sugar in your drinks. A friend who is a very high standard endurance athlete (right up to 24hr races) does most of his training on half juice/half water plus malt loaf.
We all have stored energy to use, but the point in optimal endurance exercise fuelling is that you are limited on how quickly/effectively you can access that stored energy.
Thanks. Recovery is quick after my normal 6.6. Heart is back to normal before I finish a shower.
It is just the times I push my limits further that my normal routine doesn't cut it.
Real juice is hard to find when I'm in China but I can get the regular Gatorade. That is actually quite easy to find. I just have to be careful. Some sugar drinks give me a bad headache. So does white grape juice.0 -
At 58 I'm not "an athlete" - I'm a semi-retired old fart so too old and slow to compete against youngsters.
I do endurance cycle rides and events up to 130 miles/8+ hours
But my self-competitive fire still burns just as brightly. Setting new PB's is really, really rewarding.
To do that I need to maximise my performance with good training AND NUTRITION.
"After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim. "
You should ask yourself why you didn't add some carbs to the water and electrolytes. Taking that long for your heart rate to recover isn't a great sign.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
That's really a bit silly if you are interested in endurance performance. I had a big bowl of granola with milk and a scoop of protein powder before yesterday's big training ride. I more than burned that off with my c. 1700 calorie burn.
"When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?"
Yes - in reality as we are doing athletic events/exercise we are athletes (just not very good ones perhaps?)
"Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?"
Yes!
It doesn't mean you need to eat boiled chicken and brown rice 7 days a week but not fuelling endurance exercise (training and record attempts) is a huge handicap. I eat normally for most "normal days" which for me includes rides up to 2hrs but very intense or 3hrs and up rides I need to think about eating for performance.
I'm doing my biggest event of the year in a few weeks and I fully intend to be on the start line prepared as best I possibly can be and that includes my nutrition and fuelling strategies. It's hard enough keeping up with riders in their prime without adding an unnecessary handicap.
I usually have a double scoop protein shake about an hour before my weekday 6.6km swim.
Yesterday, I somehow forgot.
Hard to find decent supplements in China. But next time I'm home I'll find something that i can bring for my next trip.
If I try to hit the next benchmark on this trip, I'll be sure to have a better breakfast. The gym doesn't open until 10AM here.
I may be rationalizing not eating much before hand because I still have "stored energy" to burn.
But you don't fuel cardio from protein.
You don't need supplements - they just have a convenience factor. There's nothing stopping you having some juice or even plain old sugar in your drinks. A friend who is a very high standard endurance athlete (right up to 24hr races) does most of his training on half juice/half water plus malt loaf.
We all have stored energy to use, but the point in optimal endurance exercise fuelling is that you are limited on how quickly/effectively you can access that stored energy.
Thanks. Recovery is quick after my normal 6.6. Heart is back to normal before I finish a shower.
It is just the times I push my limits further that my normal routine doesn't cut it.
Real juice is hard to find when I'm in China but I can get the regular Gatorade. That is actually quite easy to find. I just have to be careful. Some sugar drinks give me a bad headache. So does white grape juice.
OP, I think @sijomial nailed it for you.
Really seems like you'd benefit from more calories both pre and intra workouts, when going longer distances. Rule of thumb from my coach for long course events is for athletes to try to replace about 1/2 of the hourly calorie expenditure in order to slow the degradation of performance. As an example, in long distance swimming, cycling or running, my friends and I use liquid fuels, such as Gatorade Endurance, etc. Regular Gatorade doesn't have the sodium and potassium that the Endurance formula contains, so I'd try to use Endurance formula if you can find it. For solids, you could consider gels such as Gu. If you are doing this swimming in a pool, then other simple carbs such as Honey Stinger waffles might be an option as well (these would be more difficult to carry in an open water swim).
If you are sensitive to some sugary drinks, then you might want to try a few of the endurance fuels such as EFS or Infinit. Infinit allows users to select a custom blend on their website. This would allow you to adjust the mix to the level of sweetness, flavor, caffeine content, etc, that you prefer.
Finally, I have started using a separate supplement (PH 1500) for electrolytes that provides the sodium, potassium, etc that I need for long course events. This comes in liquid and tablets, so no real calories or sugar in it. Really helps with maintaining performance as you lose electrolytes.
2 -
At 58 I'm not "an athlete" - I'm a semi-retired old fart so too old and slow to compete against youngsters.
I do endurance cycle rides and events up to 130 miles/8+ hours
But my self-competitive fire still burns just as brightly. Setting new PB's is really, really rewarding.
To do that I need to maximise my performance with good training AND NUTRITION.
"After this swim and the previous 11km swim it took 2 to 3 hours for my heart rate to normalize again despite drinking 2 liters of electrolyte supplemented water during the swim. "
You should ask yourself why you didn't add some carbs to the water and electrolytes. Taking that long for your heart rate to recover isn't a great sign.
Yesterday I also only had a 130 Calorie protein bar 3 hours before the swim.
That's really a bit silly if you are interested in endurance performance. I had a big bowl of granola with milk and a scoop of protein powder before yesterday's big training ride. I more than burned that off with my c. 1700 calorie burn.
"When I take on these personal challenges should I be preparing as if I were actually training as an endurance athlete?"
Yes - in reality as we are doing athletic events/exercise we are athletes (just not very good ones perhaps?)
"Could it be that my view of myself as "not an athlete" biases my view of nutrition in general?"
Yes!
It doesn't mean you need to eat boiled chicken and brown rice 7 days a week but not fuelling endurance exercise (training and record attempts) is a huge handicap. I eat normally for most "normal days" which for me includes rides up to 2hrs but very intense or 3hrs and up rides I need to think about eating for performance.
I'm doing my biggest event of the year in a few weeks and I fully intend to be on the start line prepared as best I possibly can be and that includes my nutrition and fuelling strategies. It's hard enough keeping up with riders in their prime without adding an unnecessary handicap.
I usually have a double scoop protein shake about an hour before my weekday 6.6km swim.
Yesterday, I somehow forgot.
Hard to find decent supplements in China. But next time I'm home I'll find something that i can bring for my next trip.
If I try to hit the next benchmark on this trip, I'll be sure to have a better breakfast. The gym doesn't open until 10AM here.
I may be rationalizing not eating much before hand because I still have "stored energy" to burn.
But you don't fuel cardio from protein.
You don't need supplements - they just have a convenience factor. There's nothing stopping you having some juice or even plain old sugar in your drinks. A friend who is a very high standard endurance athlete (right up to 24hr races) does most of his training on half juice/half water plus malt loaf.
We all have stored energy to use, but the point in optimal endurance exercise fuelling is that you are limited on how quickly/effectively you can access that stored energy.
Thanks. Recovery is quick after my normal 6.6. Heart is back to normal before I finish a shower.
It is just the times I push my limits further that my normal routine doesn't cut it.
Real juice is hard to find when I'm in China but I can get the regular Gatorade. That is actually quite easy to find. I just have to be careful. Some sugar drinks give me a bad headache. So does white grape juice.
OP, I think @sijomial nailed it for you.
Really seems like you'd benefit from more calories both pre and intra workouts, when going longer distances. Rule of thumb from my coach for long course events is for athletes to try to replace about 1/2 of the hourly calorie expenditure in order to slow the degradation of performance. As an example, in long distance swimming, cycling or running, my friends and I use liquid fuels, such as Gatorade Endurance, etc. Regular Gatorade doesn't have the sodium and potassium that the Endurance formula contains, so I'd try to use Endurance formula if you can find it. For solids, you could consider gels such as Gu. If you are doing this swimming in a pool, then other simple carbs such as Honey Stinger waffles might be an option as well (these would be more difficult to carry in an open water swim).
If you are sensitive to some sugary drinks, then you might want to try a few of the endurance fuels such as EFS or Infinit. Infinit allows users to select a custom blend on their website. This would allow you to adjust the mix to the level of sweetness, flavor, caffeine content, etc, that you prefer.
Finally, I have started using a separate supplement (PH 1500) for electrolytes that provides the sodium, potassium, etc that I need for long course events. This comes in liquid and tablets, so no real calories or sugar in it. Really helps with maintaining performance as you lose electrolytes.
I tried EFS a few years ago. Time to add it back for the push swims. I can mix it with other things.
I'll look for the G Endurance products during my my next home stay. Maybe I'll hit the Lottery during that stay and will be able to stop the China travel. 0 -
The rule of thumb is more than 1 hr of exercise, take electrolytes.. More than 2 hours add 200-300 calories per hour. This of course require overall adequate nutrition.2
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The rule of thumb is more than 1 hr of exercise, take electrolytes.. More than 2 hours add 200-300 calories per hour. This of course require overall adequate nutrition.
When i try to push for 15.4km, I'll definitely need more bottles
I'm going to order some EFS. It is easy to pack in my suitcase. Don't need it for every swim. Just my personal endurance challenges.
Part of my problem when I'm in China is that I have to swim after workand get too the apartment too late to eat a meal. I keep it light.
I have to plan my nutrition better when I plan the endurance challenges.
Dumplings are actually pretty good the night before. A good mix of rice carbs, vegetables, and protein. And added Carolina Reaper for taste.0 -
Will Honey work as a quick carb while doing the long swims?
I got a squeeze bottle of honey at the market.
Can't find the usually stuff when I'm in China. No store sells them. It is only on line. And I am not doing online shopping on a chinese website.0 -
Will Honey work as a quick carb while doing the long swims?
I got a squeeze bottle of honey at the market.
Can't find the usually stuff when I'm in China. No store sells them. It is only on line. And I am not doing online shopping on a chinese website.
Yes. I have used a mixture of honey, blackstrap molasses and salt as an endurance fuel on a number of occasions. Would be good to have water as well as the honey.2 -
Will Honey work as a quick carb while doing the long swims?
I got a squeeze bottle of honey at the market.
Can't find the usually stuff when I'm in China. No store sells them. It is only on line. And I am not doing online shopping on a chinese website.
Yes. I have used a mixture of honey, blackstrap molasses and salt as an endurance fuel on a number of occasions. Would be good to have water as well as the honey.
That is the plan. Plenty of water with Propel powder added. A squeeze bottle of honey. So each 2200m, approximately 45 minutes, several gulps of water and healthy squeeze of honey.
Planning 11km for tomorrow.
Boiled chinese dumplings for breakfast.2 -
Honey worked great. Great taste returned to normal in the same time, after 11km today, as after my regular swim.
5x2200. A squirt of honey between each set.
No dizziness afterwards either.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions.2 -
Congrats on a very long swim!!!2
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Just saw a swype fail. HEART RATE returned to normal in the sane time that it takes.......1
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Late to this thread. Great that the honey has helped. FWIW, my own 2.5 hour workouts on a bike seem to have depleted some electrolytes (probably sodium) that I'll need to more rigorously replace during the event.
Re: ordering from a Chinese website. I read (New Yorker) that jd.com prides itself on getting orders right and on customer satisfaction. Some deliveries executed by drone.
FYI, very recently, the CEO was accused and released from Minneapolis detention for sexual assault.1 -
kayak4water wrote: »Late to this thread. Great that the honey has helped. FWIW, my own 2.5 hour workouts on a bike seem to have depleted some electrolytes (probably sodium) that I'll need to more rigorously replace during the event.
Re: ordering from a Chinese website. I read (New Yorker) that jd.com prides itself on getting orders right and on customer satisfaction. Some deliveries executed by drone.
FYI, very recently, the CEO was accused and released from Minneapolis detention for sexual assault.
I bring a bunch of Propel powder with me. I can buy the honey here. It has the added benefit of helping with outdoor allergy.
The suggestions here then using the honey gives me more confidence that I'll hit the 16km goal.0 -
I think you'll probably be fine - I've been watching this thread since it started and really my primary thought has been that you need to change your thinking from "I'm not an athlete but I do these long swims, how do I fuel for these swims?" to, "I am a non-competitive athlete doing an endurance sport - how do I fuel?"3
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I think you'll probably be fine - I've been watching this thread since it started and really my primary thought has been that you need to change your thinking from "I'm not an athlete but I do these long swims, how do I fuel for these swims?" to, "I am a non-competitive athlete doing an endurance sport - how do I fuel?"
Thank you. I'd been biting my tongue about this same point.
"I'm not an athlete, I just do this complicated or challenging physical activity regularly, work hard, and try to improve my skill at it." NopeNopeNope. You're an athlete.1 -
I think you'll probably be fine - I've been watching this thread since it started and really my primary thought has been that you need to change your thinking from "I'm not an athlete but I do these long swims, how do I fuel for these swims?" to, "I am a non-competitive athlete doing an endurance sport - how do I fuel?"
Thank you. I'd been biting my tongue about this same point.
"I'm not an athlete, I just do this complicated or challenging physical activity regularly, work hard, and try to improve my skill at it." NopeNopeNope. You're an athlete.
That "I'm not an athlete" is a left over childhood imprint. Grew up in a family of athletes. I was the only one that sucked at every sport one needed to excel at too be accepted.
And then there is the occasional open water competition snob on here that made a backhanded comment when I posted the first time I did 10km pool swim.
People that have athletes all their lives can sometimes forget that not everyoneis like them.
At 57, I guess I'm finally giving myself permission to be an "athlete. " 2 -
16.06km, 10 miles today. 5 hours 52 minutes. Average pace 2:12/100m
Chinese dumplings for breakfast. Honey during the swim. I felt like I could have gone farther but didn't want to push it.
Thanks again for the all the suggestions.
I'll try some more if them when I get home from this trip.1
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