IS IT TIME TO STOP BULKING? (Pics included)
wallyr1
Posts: 20 Member
Stats January:
6’0
170lb
Never measured body fat but by that pic I included definitely under 12%
Stats now (September):
6’0
206lb
Not sure about b.f.
Really proud of the strength and muscle I gained, but I get pretty embarrassed without a shirt on, something that wasn’t a problem for me before. Is this just part of bulking I take it? Would now be a good time to start cutting? And if so, tips? I wanted to wait to cut till I felt like I added quality muscle. People are telling me I look a lot bigger, but idk personally I still feel like I don’t have enough muscle on my frame.
6’0
170lb
Never measured body fat but by that pic I included definitely under 12%
Stats now (September):
6’0
206lb
Not sure about b.f.
Really proud of the strength and muscle I gained, but I get pretty embarrassed without a shirt on, something that wasn’t a problem for me before. Is this just part of bulking I take it? Would now be a good time to start cutting? And if so, tips? I wanted to wait to cut till I felt like I added quality muscle. People are telling me I look a lot bigger, but idk personally I still feel like I don’t have enough muscle on my frame.
3
Replies
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I would say it's time to cut, you've added 36 lbs in 8 months or so, you'll be lucky if 10lbs of that is lean muscle.
Your strength goes up when you have more total mass, which is one of the reasons why you see strength gains with a higher body fat percentages. It's a reasons why powerlifters are often carrying a decent amount of body fat, it helps their leverages and their lifts.
I don't have much advice for cutting beyond keep your protein intake high, to preserve as much of the muscle mass that you have gained.
Good luck!0 -
You look great and I definitely see progress with your physique. Most people do not reach their goal in one bulk cycle, it can take many cycles and many years to get the muscle base and size they want.
You did really well with your gain, so I would cut, then run another bulk when you lean out again.1 -
I'm with the others. Time to cut.0
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Yeah 36lb gain is gonna be primarily fat and some water retention, but I’d start a cut. What were your cals at above maintenance? I would have done a leaner bulk. What program were you running. Not trying to sound rude or mean, but for 8 months of bulking, it seems as you could have spent time more wisely/ seen more optimal results5
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »Yeah 36lb gain is gonna be primarily fat and some water retention, but I’d start a cut. What were your cals at above maintenance? I would have done a leaner bulk. What program were you running. Not trying to sound rude or mean, but for 8 months of bulking, it seems as you could have spent time more wisely/ seen more optimal results
Ive been doing a PHUL routine a found on muscle strength. Lifting ~6 days a week, focusing on compounds lifts.
As for diet, I started at 3K and slowly increased. The last 3-4 months though I stopped tracking. I started seeing good results and noticed that the more I ate the more my lifts went up, so I let myself get messy after that.
Yeah I get I added excess fat, but I still feel I made some pretty solid results. My PR on bench went from 185lb to 250lb, so the strength gains are there.
I think transitioning to a cut is a good idea, but I don’t wanna go overboard and end up losing the muscle I put on. What’s a good way to gauge what calories I should get back to? And for how long/ how much weight per month should I be expecting to loose at the most? When’s a good time to stop cutting too?1 -
Bulking up to gain muscle is counter productive and slows down muscle gain. Sorry, Its not effective, you dont feel better for doing it and it impedes progress. The bulk just slows you down, stifles recovery, and your digestive system uses so much energy to metabolize all that food, energy that should go into building muscle. Yeh Ive done it many times and know better now. One day you have to lose all that fat man! The best gains I made was when I was slightly leaner than felt comfortable. I know, your weights drop, but the only reason you are lifting those weights is that you have mass, not strength. Lose that mass and see what happens to the so called strength. A 300 pound man can push a car by himself, not because hes strong, he has weight/bulk/mass behind him. A skinny guy who can squat 350 pounds can push the car just as well and will push it twice as far, because he has strength, and fitness. Dont bulk up. Over time I guarantee it slows down your gains. Oh, if you want to cut efficiently, start running or cycling every 3rd or 4th day.16
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Bulking up to gain muscle is counter productive and slows down muscle gain. Sorry, Its not effective, you dont feel better for doing it and it impedes progress. The bulk just slows you down, stifles recovery, and your digestive system uses so much energy to metabolize all that food, energy that should go into building muscle. Yeh Ive done it many times and know better now. One day you have to lose all that fat man! The best gains I made was when I was slightly leaner than felt comfortable. I know, your weights drop, but the only reason you are lifting those weights is that you have mass, not strength. Lose that mass and see what happens to the so called strength. A 300 pound man can push a car by himself, not because hes strong, he has weight/bulk/mass behind him. A skinny guy who can squat 350 pounds can push the car just as well and will push it twice as far, because he has strength, and fitness. Dont bulk up. Over time I guarantee it slows down your gains. Oh, if you want to cut efficiently, start running or cycling every 3rd or 4th day.
So many things I could say about how wrong your post is....5 -
Bulking up to gain muscle is counter productive and slows down muscle gain. Sorry, Its not effective, you dont feel better for doing it and it impedes progress. The bulk just slows you down, stifles recovery, and your digestive system uses so much energy to metabolize all that food, energy that should go into building muscle. Yeh Ive done it many times and know better now. One day you have to lose all that fat man! The best gains I made was when I was slightly leaner than felt comfortable. I know, your weights drop, but the only reason you are lifting those weights is that you have mass, not strength. Lose that mass and see what happens to the so called strength. A 300 pound man can push a car by himself, not because hes strong, he has weight/bulk/mass behind him. A skinny guy who can squat 350 pounds can push the car just as well and will push it twice as far, because he has strength, and fitness. Dont bulk up. Over time I guarantee it slows down your gains. Oh, if you want to cut efficiently, start running or cycling every 3rd or 4th day.
Who's recommending bulking up to 300 pounds? Bulking and cutting are cycles. If you aren't crazy and a natural, a moderate or a lean bulk to a reasonable body fat percentage and then a cut to keep you in a fairly optimal partitioning zone is the fastest way to add muscle. The only other option is a recomp - which is extremely slow and fairly useless if you are well below your target weight. Do you think that everybody is ok with being "skinny but strong"? Some people have a goal of being more than just "strong" - although I'd contend that a dude pushing 20% body fat that can squat 500# is significantly stronger than someone, regardless of how skinny they might be, that can only squat 350.3 -
Well, you have more courage than myself for bulking (we have very similar stats & frames).
Not going to lie, being on the tall side, it's going to take many years of lifting to have that look of a complete frame as opposed to being labeled "lanky" (tough being tall)
I would also vote for "cut". Maybe be a bit more conservative on bulking next time (15-20lbs max)? The few times in my life I've bulked, I could only tolerate up to 185-190lb range (did not like how clothes felt/fit, chest and back started getting fat, just felt slow/less agile, & unhealthy)1 -
Quick google. Arnold, 7 times Mr Olympia knows a thing or two. And the advice holds for anyone the same today as yesterday. You bulkers are just slowing down your gains.
Arnold: “One hint I can give is not to ‘bulk up,’ or let yourself put on a lot of extra fat weight during your training that will only have to be dieted off for the contest. Bodybuilders are apt to do this because being heavier makes them feel bigger, but this is an illusion— that extra weight is not working muscle and it does them no good whatsoever.”
Oh and I didnt say bulk up to 300 pounds or be happy with skinny but strong. Talk about taking a simple illustration out of context!
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Quick google. Arnold, 7 times Mr Olympia knows a thing or two. And the advice holds for anyone the same today as yesterday. You bulkers are just slowing down your gains.
Arnold: “One hint I can give is not to ‘bulk up,’ or let yourself put on a lot of extra fat weight during your training that will only have to be dieted off for the contest. Bodybuilders are apt to do this because being heavier makes them feel bigger, but this is an illusion— that extra weight is not working muscle and it does them no good whatsoever.”
Oh and I didnt say bulk up to 300 pounds or be happy with skinny but strong. Talk about taking a simple illustration out of context!
It's a lot easier to put on significant amounts of muscle without a huge bulk if you're jacking monster steroid stacks. Just sayin'.
Pro bodybuilders' advice rarely translates to Joe Average in the gym, who's nowhere near as 'pharmaceutically enhanced'.7 -
Quick google. Arnold, 7 times Mr Olympia knows a thing or two. And the advice holds for anyone the same today as yesterday. You bulkers are just slowing down your gains.
Arnold: “One hint I can give is not to ‘bulk up,’ or let yourself put on a lot of extra fat weight during your training that will only have to be dieted off for the contest. Bodybuilders are apt to do this because being heavier makes them feel bigger, but this is an illusion— that extra weight is not working muscle and it does them no good whatsoever.”
Oh and I didnt say bulk up to 300 pounds or be happy with skinny but strong. Talk about taking a simple illustration out of context!
Unless your also a juicer don’t take advice from juicers. Nattys do need to run bulk and cut cycles to add significant lean mass over a long period of time. But clean or slow bulk is typically optimal3 -
It's a lot easier to put on significant amounts of muscle without a huge bulk if you're jacking monster steroid stacks. Just sayin'.
Pro bodybuilders' advice rarely translates to Joe Average in the gym, who's nowhere near as 'pharmaceutically enhanced'.
Dosnt matter. Its the principle. The steroid takers still want maximum results. And bulking up slows down those results. They know that, and if they wanted to bulk they could explode if they wanted and push huge weights. By the way bulking up over a few months and pushing heavy too fast can easily lead to injury. And really, when you bulk youre just getting fat.
9 -
Bulking up to gain muscle is counter productive and slows down muscle gain. Sorry, Its not effective, you dont feel better for doing it and it impedes progress. The bulk just slows you down, stifles recovery, and your digestive system uses so much energy to metabolize all that food, energy that should go into building muscle. Yeh Ive done it many times and know better now. One day you have to lose all that fat man! The best gains I made was when I was slightly leaner than felt comfortable. I know, your weights drop, but the only reason you are lifting those weights is that you have mass, not strength. Lose that mass and see what happens to the so called strength. A 300 pound man can push a car by himself, not because hes strong, he has weight/bulk/mass behind him. A skinny guy who can squat 350 pounds can push the car just as well and will push it twice as far, because he has strength, and fitness. Dont bulk up. Over time I guarantee it slows down your gains. Oh, if you want to cut efficiently, start running or cycling every 3rd or 4th day.
I've run three bulks so far. Maybe you are referring to dirty bulks where you gain way too much in a short period of time? Yea that is probably not a great idea for most people. What about a lean slow and steady bulk. I can assure you my progress has been above and beyond I could ever achieve if I did not decide to bulk. I did not get fat. I felt amazing and would do it again and again. So.. to each their own.5 -
Progress is what counts. if it works for you keep doing it. If you did not add fat, then you really havent bulked. A lean bulk sounds contradictory to me and dosnt sound like a bulk as I understand it. Bulking is adding body weight, say over 6-9 months so you can lift more and supposedly add more muscle than you otherwise would have. Then when you lose that 20 pounds give or take, youve gained more muscle, so the theory goes.
When you bulk the fat % in your body goes up, quite alot, because you cant add muscle as fast as you can add fat (weight that helps you lift more). Theres alot more to it than that as well. Your metabolism is a biggie. Some people can eat anything, stuff it in till they feel sick and not gain weight. Thats not bulking. Your natural ability/muscle size to begin with and genetic ability to gain muscle also matters. Your job/situation and how much energy that takes out of your day, the quality of your diet, supplements, training program (most people overtrain and run down the bodys energy levels), rest/sleep. I bulked for half a dozen comps. I ended up using valuable energy running off the fat the 6 weeks before the competition when I should have been conserving energy to maintain/grow muscle mass. I never took steroids either. Gave up because I couldnt compete with the juice takers.9 -
Progress is what counts. if it works for you keep doing it. If you did not add fat, then you really havent bulked. A lean bulk sounds contradictory to me and dosnt sound like a bulk as I understand it. Bulking is adding body weight, say over 6-9 months so you can lift more and supposedly add more muscle than you otherwise would have. Then when you lose that 20 pounds give or take, youve gained more muscle, so the theory goes.
When you bulk the fat % in your body goes up, quite alot, because you cant add muscle as fast as you can add fat (weight that helps you lift more). Theres alot more to it than that as well. Your metabolism is a biggie. Some people can eat anything, stuff it in till they feel sick and not gain weight. Thats not bulking. Your natural ability/muscle size to begin with and genetic ability to gain muscle also matters. Your job/situation and how much energy that takes out of your day, the quality of your diet, supplements, training program (most people overtrain and run down the bodys energy levels), rest/sleep. I bulked for half a dozen comps. I ended up using valuable energy running off the fat the 6 weeks before the competition when I should have been conserving energy to maintain/grow muscle mass. I never took steroids either. Gave up because I couldnt compete with the juice takers.
I didn't say I didn't gain fat... I didn't get fat. And I gained 15 lbs in 7 months which is pretty standard for a female with my stats and goals. There are many reasons people have issues bulking and it is definitely not for everyone. But for me it was the best thing I ever did
6 -
:-) For sure, for some people, with certain metabolisms it works. 15 pounds is probably 4-5 pound of muscle gain depending on how long youve been lifting. And pushing weights, as well as adding muscle are a great shaping tool too.4
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Quick google. Arnold, 7 times Mr Olympia knows a thing or two. And the advice holds for anyone the same today as yesterday. You bulkers are just slowing down your gains.
Arnold: “One hint I can give is not to ‘bulk up,’ or let yourself put on a lot of extra fat weight during your training that will only have to be dieted off for the contest. Bodybuilders are apt to do this because being heavier makes them feel bigger, but this is an illusion— that extra weight is not working muscle and it does them no good whatsoever.”
Oh and I didnt say bulk up to 300 pounds or be happy with skinny but strong. Talk about taking a simple illustration out of context!
Good job referencing someone who’s test levels were probably 6000+.....5 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »Quick google. Arnold, 7 times Mr Olympia knows a thing or two. And the advice holds for anyone the same today as yesterday. You bulkers are just slowing down your gains.
Arnold: “One hint I can give is not to ‘bulk up,’ or let yourself put on a lot of extra fat weight during your training that will only have to be dieted off for the contest. Bodybuilders are apt to do this because being heavier makes them feel bigger, but this is an illusion— that extra weight is not working muscle and it does them no good whatsoever.”
Oh and I didnt say bulk up to 300 pounds or be happy with skinny but strong. Talk about taking a simple illustration out of context!
Good job referencing someone who’s test levels were probably 6000+.....
You totally meant "over 9000!!!"...ng/dL that is
2 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Quick google. Arnold, 7 times Mr Olympia knows a thing or two. And the advice holds for anyone the same today as yesterday. You bulkers are just slowing down your gains.
Arnold: “One hint I can give is not to ‘bulk up,’ or let yourself put on a lot of extra fat weight during your training that will only have to be dieted off for the contest. Bodybuilders are apt to do this because being heavier makes them feel bigger, but this is an illusion— that extra weight is not working muscle and it does them no good whatsoever.”
Oh and I didnt say bulk up to 300 pounds or be happy with skinny but strong. Talk about taking a simple illustration out of context!
Good job referencing someone who’s test levels were probably 6000+.....
You totally meant "over 9000!!!"...ng/dL that is
Exactly why I put the “+” sign1 -
Why would Arnold’s test levels
Be that high ? He’s said before his
Drugs of choice were d-Bol and primo
Both of which won’t raise test levels2 -
Why would Arnold’s test levels
Be that high ? He’s said before his
Drugs of choice were d-Bol and primo
Both of which won’t raise test levels
...because the base of any stack is Testosterone. The general dosage is about 500mg a week. Pro's sometime use much more. This is with cypionate and enanthate. Proprionate is dosed every other day, up to 150-200mg. They don't often talk about the T dosing because it's assumed. The only real variance is the other AAS's in the stack.
For some perspective - I'm on TRT. I inject 100mg a week. Mid cycle I've tested as high as 1200 ng/dL and in my trough I test at 800 ng/dL. Think about what a 500mg+ dose a week would do.1 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Why would Arnold’s test levels
Be that high ? He’s said before his
Drugs of choice were d-Bol and primo
Both of which won’t raise test levels
...because the base of any stack is Testosterone. The general dosage is about 500mg a week. Pro's sometime use much more. This is with cypionate and enanthate. Proprionate is dosed every other day, up to 150-200mg. They don't often talk about the T dosing because it's assumed. The only real variance is the other AAS's in the stack.
For some perspective - I'm on TRT. I inject 100mg a week. Mid cycle I've tested as high as 1200 ng/dL and in my trough I test at 800 ng/dL. Think about what a 500mg+ dose a week would do.
Totally agree that that 500mg ew is pretty
Standard these days, just not back in the 70’s
My Friends on 200mg ew and is only
Around 900 ng/dl, guess everybody’s different0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Why would Arnold’s test levels
Be that high ? He’s said before his
Drugs of choice were d-Bol and primo
Both of which won’t raise test levels
...because the base of any stack is Testosterone. The general dosage is about 500mg a week. Pro's sometime use much more. This is with cypionate and enanthate. Proprionate is dosed every other day, up to 150-200mg. They don't often talk about the T dosing because it's assumed. The only real variance is the other AAS's in the stack.
For some perspective - I'm on TRT. I inject 100mg a week. Mid cycle I've tested as high as 1200 ng/dL and in my trough I test at 800 ng/dL. Think about what a 500mg+ dose a week would do.
Totally agree that that 500mg ew is pretty
Standard these days, just not back in the 70’s
My Friends on 200mg ew and is only
Around 900 ng/dl, guess everybody’s different
That’s pretty normal if he’s only taking 200mg a week.0 -
Why would Arnold’s test levels
Be that high ? He’s said before his
Drugs of choice were d-Bol and primo
Both of which won’t raise test levels
Haha LOL at this. Running dbol for as long he would of had to would wreck him. Also he would have felt like shyttttttt if he wasn’t on test and taking those 2 compounds he would have felt like death as well. He was taking more than whatever video you saw, way more!0 -
Has anyone read the book by Dr. Andrew Winge "The program" He takes a scientific approach to adding muscle and losing fat and has the body to prove it works. He recognizes as much as we are the same, we all have different body types and for sure genetics play a big part. He suggest less sets but to muscle failure with more time to rest. Torn muscle fibers must first repair before they can grow and that takes time. Of course if you have a steroid fueled workout then you can go 7 days a week hours a day and still add mass. I tried this. I worked my arms everyday, 3 sets of 20. I gained 1/4 inch of muscle in two weeks. I work chest 1 rep to failure with 3 days rest in between. I gained 1/2 of muscle mass. Now that was with the right diet and plenty of protein especially during pre and post workout.8
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So as for starting to cut, I don’t wanna loose my strengths gains. Should I look at ~4lb a month? Just include a bit more cardio? Nothing too drastic right?
I just don’t wanna feel like I overdid the bulk to the point where when I try to cut I lose the fat that I gained as well as the muscle, done that before, not fun0 -
You didn’t over bulk. Excellent progress. I’d recommend a mini cut. Go to the Revive Stronger website and look it up. They have a very thorough explanation.0
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