If we are going to be honest here....
QueenofCups
Posts: 365 Member
Why is it that most women are led to believe that the only way we will be desirable by the opposite sex (if straight, same sex if gay), is if we are a certain weight/size/look?
Is it society? And if so, isn't society made up of the collective consciousness of all men and women?
Is it MOST guys are not that superficial, but they are influenced by same said society?
Or is it just women attacking each other, playing games, being competitive; we set the limitations on each other and it has nothing to do with men at all?
Why is it that after 11 years of marriage to a man that I find attractive, I still feel like he would leave me in a heartbeat if something better came along? And I still want some kind of validation from other men in the world that I am, in fact, attractive enough.
Why is it that I always feel like the worst choice among any women in a room? If I am the thinnest, I am the ugliest. If I am the prettiest, I am the dumbest, if I am the smartest I am the fattest?
Am I alone here?
Is it society? And if so, isn't society made up of the collective consciousness of all men and women?
Is it MOST guys are not that superficial, but they are influenced by same said society?
Or is it just women attacking each other, playing games, being competitive; we set the limitations on each other and it has nothing to do with men at all?
Why is it that after 11 years of marriage to a man that I find attractive, I still feel like he would leave me in a heartbeat if something better came along? And I still want some kind of validation from other men in the world that I am, in fact, attractive enough.
Why is it that I always feel like the worst choice among any women in a room? If I am the thinnest, I am the ugliest. If I am the prettiest, I am the dumbest, if I am the smartest I am the fattest?
Am I alone here?
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Replies
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You already know my stance! I only tell you every other day ;-) But for those out there who don't know it, we can't blame society for our own low self-esteem. You have to believe in yourself and love yourself for who you are on any given day. You are all YOU have!2
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I think all of that ties into self-worth and that is something that nearly all women struggle with. You have to remind yourself that looking a certain way/size/shape is not what is important. Loving yourself and all of your flaws and all of your awesomeness is the best way to slowly overcome those feelings of 'she is thinner than me' or 'she is prettier than me'.
It takes a lot of conscious effort and time to rewire our self-esteem.
What I think is desirable usually ends with my guy laughing awkwardly at me, asking why I did all that 'extra work' to look pretty? I would bring home magazines and ask which woman looked the best and try to mimic her style. My guy would always reply, 'These women aren't you, so they aren't going to look the best at all.' or something like that.
Even with him standing fully in my corner, telling me I am the only one he wants to see, I still struggle with those same feelings as you. It is a real battle.0 -
You have to love yourself first. You sound as if you may have some insecurity issues. I was there once. I am on a weight loss journey for my health. Not to look good for my husband, he loves me no matter what. Look inward and upward, and discover that you are loved!!1
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well, to each his or her own. What is "hot" to one guy/gal is not to the next. It is all in the eye of the beholder. Never doubt yourself, or you are leaving yourself open to doubt from others.0
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You have to believe in yourself and love yourself for who you are on any given day. You are all YOU have!
Love it!!!0 -
I'm not sure, but it seems that women never find themselves to be as beautiful as the guys around them know they are.0
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You already know my stance! I only tell you every other day ;-) But for those out there who don't know it, we can't blame society for our own low self-esteem. You have to believe in yourself and love yourself for who you are on any given day. You are all YOU have!
I totally agree. I honestly think what makes one person attractive over another is often their confidence in themselves. There will always be someone prettier, skinnier, smarter in the room, but I am the only me. And I am learning to think that that is enough. It is a daily process, though. :ohwell:0 -
Confidence is all that matters, believe me. Ive been large my entire life and have never honestly been turned down by a man. I've always been confident in how beautiful i am on the inside and it radiates.0
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Well, I believe it. My husband and I married I weighed 210 (got as big as 247). I'm a size 8 now *in the 150's and losing*, and he and I haven't had much to do with one another since I lost the weight. He had the vision, not me in this case. So it can work both ways. He wanted a conservative, modest wife...and I changed once I had my third and last child. I'm obviously a great mother to my boys, but we lead different lives, and for now...it works for us. Sad situation, but I'm making it the most positive it can be. I love the person I became, and I'm definitely not turning back...even if it costs me my marriage.0
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I read this somewhere this morning and I just remembered it. It so resonates with your post.
"Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You." ~ Dr. Seuss0 -
In my opinion it is not "normal" society as much as it is the media. Us everyday folk do not look at a woman who is size 12, 14, 16... and think "she's fat". I agree our own insecurities are what lead us to believe the lie, but where do those insecurities come from? The media. The media who show us pictures and commercials and whatnot of overly thin people and tell us that is the "norm". No it is not!!! Look beyond that to find what is truly beautiful. Do we, when we are really loving someone, let what they look like determine how we feel about them? I hope not. So why do we expect them to love us based on how we look? I was a size 8 most of my adult life. Now that I have gained weight, I am happy to be bigger; never thought I'd say that, but it's true. If I stay at this size, I would be satisfied. And I'll tell you something else, I think my husband prefers it (though he would NEVER say that)0
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I understand where you are coming from. I do not know if it is society, or our own low self-esteem that others have mentioned, but I can tell you that it is real to me. I am recently divorced. My husband was very overweight, as was I. I also felt that he would leave me if something better came along (that is not the reason for our divorce, though), but I think that train of though came more from his dating history than from my self-esteem.
Anyway, I could look at him and love him with all my heart, and want him physically as well, even though he was so overweight. I finally had to tell myself that if I could love him and want only him with his weight as it was, then he could love and want me with my weight as it was.
Yes, he could be a dork, he could drive me insane when he got on political rants, but I loved him and wanted only him. So, why can't we believe they feel the same way? I dunno. It's just something we have to train ourselves to believe.0 -
I'm sorry, but I've never understood this. You should know how wonderful you are. You live with yourself every single day.
I know I'm strong, and when push comes to shove, I can surprise myself. I know I'm an awesome mom. I know I'm a terrific wife. I know that I'm smart and funny. My family is lucky to have me (as I am lucky to have them - I'm not all arrogance here).
Yes, I've got some weight I need to lose to be happy with my body. So yes, sometimes I'm self-conscious about that (but less and less since I've started MFP!).
But it's just my body image that has suffered. My SELF-image is not affected by my weight. They are SEPERATE issues.
Love yourself. Be kind to yourself. Realize what your strenghs are and what is awesome about you. Because everyone has something awesome to be proud of!!0 -
Love yourself. Be kind to yourself. Realize what your strenghs are and what is awesome about you. Because everyone has something awesome to be proud of!!
Love this!!0 -
I have learned you get what you think about ! You need to change what you are thinking about. Your husband chose you and stood behind that choice for years! I would go get an affirmation DVD form the book store and play it all day everyday Louise L. Hay has a good one.
I use to think why me alot and now I think why not me ? Some one has to be the pretty smart sexy dynamic one ! Why not you ? dont u got a turn ? Plus u can look how ever you choose these days at any size! You can buy cloths and change hair styles any time you choose. Google a few actresses and see the diffrent looks they have for diffrent roles ! I change my look with my mood and people always tell me Im sexy. Im still fat, not the smartest and not the prettiest all the time but I am armed with the truth ... to some one, some where, all the time I am the most beautiful woman in the world. I never know where they are so i just act like im going to see them every day and guess what I do!
I know every woman on the planet is to somebody, some where, all the time, everything they wanted and dreamed of and I never forget ! and neither should you !0 -
I have learned you get what you think about ! You need to change what you are thinking about. Your husband chose you and stood behind that choice for years! I would go get an affirmation DVD form the book store and play it all day everyday Louise L. Hay has a good one.
I use to think why me alot and now I think why not me ? Some one has to be the pretty smart sexy dynamic one ! Why not you ? dont u got a turn ? Plus u can look how ever you choose these days at any size! You can buy cloths and change hair styles any time you choose. Google a few actresses and see the diffrent looks they have for diffrent roles ! I change my look with my mood and people always tell me Im sexy. Im still fat, not the smartest and not the prettiest all the time but I am armed with the truth ... to some one, some where, all the time I am the most beautiful woman in the world. I never know where they are so i just act like im going to see them every day and guess what I do!
I know every woman on the planet is to somebody, some where, all the time, everything they wanted and dreamed of and I never forget ! and neither should you !
Love it!0 -
Why is it that most women are led to believe that the only way we will be desirable by the opposite sex (if straight, same sex if gay), is if we are a certain weight/size/look?
Women aren't LED to believe that ... most women WANT to believe that. If you can convince yourself that it's society's fault that you're undesirable because you're overweight, then you can avoid taking personal responsibility for becoming a better person (and it's not being thin that makes you better; it's caring enough about yourself to make positive lifestyle changes).
And yes, most men are superficial when it comes to women with whom they hope to be romantically involved. So are women. That is biological. It's not societal; it's not a conscious choice we make. And that's a good thing because that means different people are attracted to different things. So there is no single "look" that will make you desirable to every man/woman you meet, and that works to your advantage. Imagine if there truly were only one way to look in order to get a date.
I just don't find much compassion for my sex on this topic because it isn't men who are making us feel like we have to be a size 2 with enormous boobs to be attractive. We do it to ourselves.1 -
I'm not sure, but it seems that women never find themselves to be as beautiful as the guys around them know they are.
Totally agree...it is amazing how horrible we think we look, but in the eyes of men we aren't nearly as ugly as we think. My husband tells me daily how beautiful I am...of course, I hear even more compliments since I've lost weight....but I think it's because he wants me to keep up the work. I honestly have always felt he meant it when he tells me I beautiful.0 -
We do it to ourselves.
Amen, sista!!!0 -
"I just don't find much compassion for my sex on this topic because it isn't men who are making us feel like we have to be a size 2 with enormous boobs to be attractive. We do it to ourselves."
Sorry - i don't agree. Hopefully, it doesn't happen to you, but when you find your husband repeatedly looking at "women" on the internet who are size 2 with enormous boobs rather than being with you, you find a little compassion. And yes, it was his problem, not mine, but it did affirm the feeling of insecurity.1 -
Do you have my Someone's address? Evidently I lost it along the way and I'd love to find him.I know every woman on the planet is to somebody, some where, all the time, everything they wanted and dreamed of and I never forget ! and neither should you !
Seriously- we do it to ourselves. I am not my body, but I feel my body reflects poorly on me. That's why I'm changing it. I want people to see the fit, adventurous, playful, fantastic person that I am.0 -
Sorry - i don't agree. Hopefully, it doesn't happen to you, but when you find your husband repeatedly looking at "women" on the internet who are size 2 with enormous boobs rather than being with you, you find a little compassion. And yes, it was his problem, not mine, but it did affirm the feeling of insecurity.
But that's not "men." That's one person with a messed up view of love.
I'm incredibly lucky that I've been surrounded by real men my entire life, so I know what a good man looks like. I also know they are not extinct, and they do not deserve to be generalized with all the negativity that results from a woman having a bad relationship with a bad guy.
Most men will show you (even TELL you) exactly who and what they are if you bother to pay attention. The problem is that women today are so emotionally messed up that even when they meet someone who is completely wrong for them, they play the "But I'll fix him, and it'll be romantic and awesome!" game. And by the time they figure out that fixing someone is not their responsibility (and not possible anyway), it's too late. Life is about choices, and when you make the wrong one, it's not always about someone else.1 -
Sorry - i don't agree. Hopefully, it doesn't happen to you, but when you find your husband repeatedly looking at "women" on the internet who are size 2 with enormous boobs rather than being with you, you find a little compassion. And yes, it was his problem, not mine, but it did affirm the feeling of insecurity.
But that's not "men." That's one person with a messed up view of love.
I'm incredibly lucky that I've been surrounded by real men my entire life, so I know what a good man looks like. I also know they are not extinct, and they do not deserve to be generalized with all the negativity that results from a woman having a bad relationship with a bad guy.
Most men will show you (even TELL you) exactly who and what they are if you bother to pay attention. The problem is that women today are so emotionally messed up that even when they meet someone who is completely wrong for them, they play the "But I'll fix him, and it'll be romantic and awesome!" game. And by the time they figure out that fixing someone is not their responsibility (and not possible anyway), it's too late. Life is about choices, and when you make the wrong one, it's not always about someone else.
Talk about generalizing negativity...you just 'negatively generalized' women. You talk as if any bad relationship is the woman's fault. That's not always the case, my dear. And my ex "TOLD" me and "SHOWED" me one thing while we were dating, but then "TOLD" me and "SHOWED" me a whole other thing after we were married. And you want to make that MY fault? Seriously?!?!2 -
I appreciate all the uplifting comments. And you are all absolutely right. I do need to love myself and accept myself.
Sarah - I love that Dr. Seuss quote.
I want to clarify that I am the ONLY one who thinks these things about physical attractiveness. Meaning, I find beauty in everyone and everything just as they are. Just haven't quite figured out how to turn it around on myself.
I am better than I used to be. And I will continue to get better. I believe that.
I am blessed to have people in my life that are very supportive and helpful in my journey, so I know one day I will look in the mirror and be proud of what I see. I am not as disgusted as I used to be. There's progress there. 0 -
Sorry - i don't agree. Hopefully, it doesn't happen to you, but when you find your husband repeatedly looking at "women" on the internet who are size 2 with enormous boobs rather than being with you, you find a little compassion. And yes, it was his problem, not mine, but it did affirm the feeling of insecurity.
But that's not "men." That's one person with a messed up view of love.
I'm incredibly lucky that I've been surrounded by real men my entire life, so I know what a good man looks like. I also know they are not extinct, and they do not deserve to be generalized with all the negativity that results from a woman having a bad relationship with a bad guy.
Most men will show you (even TELL you) exactly who and what they are if you bother to pay attention. The problem is that women today are so emotionally messed up that even when they meet someone who is completely wrong for them, they play the "But I'll fix him, and it'll be romantic and awesome!" game. And by the time they figure out that fixing someone is not their responsibility (and not possible anyway), it's too late. Life is about choices, and when you make the wrong one, it's not always about someone else.
Talk about generalizing negativity...you just 'negatively generalized' women. You talk as if any bad relationship is the woman's fault. That's not always the case, my dear. And my ex "TOLD" me and "SHOWED" me one thing while we were dating, but then "TOLD" me and "SHOWED" me a whole other thing after we were married. And you want to make that MY fault? Seriously?!?!
She didn't make it your fault...and a passive/aggressive response doesn't fix what one jerk did either.
My ex, was the worst of the worst...and it truly isn't her fault. Her view of the world is so skewed that no amount of love, generosity, affection...or anything but negativity could get through. She's an extreme example of what the young lady above was talking about. The results/fallout of that relationship will affect my kids for years to come.
My current girlfriend is sweet, kind, intelligent...TELLS me what she wants from me, and shows me daily (and yes, i mean in a non sexual manner) precisely WHY it's so, so worth it to do everything I possibly can to make her happy.
So...what conclusions can we draw from these two examples? Well..honestly...not a lot, other than there are all kinds of women out ther...which means...wait?!...likely, there are all kinds of men too!! But, the fact is that it's NOT society that is making you believe that you have to be a certain thing. It's yourselves. I have a friend, she's tall, and has a bigger frame than many women...and yet she still manages to be very, very attractive. Bigger framed taller women are not my type, at ALL (I'm a short guy)...yet she pulls it off with grace and confidence I've only rarely seen in women that fit what this thread assumes is societies 'ideal'. My girlfriend is the opposite, in size and frame etc. She's petite...yet isn't skinny (she works out almost daily and is strong and healthy...much more attractive imo). She has that same confidence. But here is the thing...it has NOTHING to do with their bodies you see? They are attractive on the inside, know it...and it shines through like a beacon. EVERYONE sees it.
To me, that is 'societies ideal'...and they flat own it.
You all could too...if you made the choice.0 -
Sorry - i don't agree. Hopefully, it doesn't happen to you, but when you find your husband repeatedly looking at "women" on the internet who are size 2 with enormous boobs rather than being with you, you find a little compassion. And yes, it was his problem, not mine, but it did affirm the feeling of insecurity.
But that's not "men." That's one person with a messed up view of love.
I'm incredibly lucky that I've been surrounded by real men my entire life, so I know what a good man looks like. I also know they are not extinct, and they do not deserve to be generalized with all the negativity that results from a woman having a bad relationship with a bad guy.
Most men will show you (even TELL you) exactly who and what they are if you bother to pay attention. The problem is that women today are so emotionally messed up that even when they meet someone who is completely wrong for them, they play the "But I'll fix him, and it'll be romantic and awesome!" game. And by the time they figure out that fixing someone is not their responsibility (and not possible anyway), it's too late. Life is about choices, and when you make the wrong one, it's not always about someone else.
Talk about generalizing negativity...you just 'negatively generalized' women. You talk as if any bad relationship is the woman's fault. That's not always the case, my dear. And my ex "TOLD" me and "SHOWED" me one thing while we were dating, but then "TOLD" me and "SHOWED" me a whole other thing after we were married. And you want to make that MY fault? Seriously?!?!
She didn't make it your fault...and a passive/aggressive response doesn't fix what one jerk did either.
My ex, was the worst of the worst...and it truly isn't her fault. Her view of the world is so skewed that no amount of love, generosity, affection...or anything but negativity could get through. She's an extreme example of what the young lady above was talking about. The results/fallout of that relationship will affect my kids for years to come.
My current girlfriend is sweet, kind, intelligent...TELLS me what she wants from me, and shows me daily (and yes, i mean in a non sexual manner) precisely WHY it's so, so worth it to do everything I possibly can to make her happy.
So...what conclusions can we draw from these two examples? Well..honestly...not a lot, other than there are all kinds of women out ther...which means...wait?!...likely, there are all kinds of men too!! But, the fact is that it's NOT society that is making you believe that you have to be a certain thing. It's yourselves. I have a friend, she's tall, and has a bigger frame than many women...and yet she still manages to be very, very attractive. Bigger framed taller women are not my type, at ALL (I'm a short guy)...yet she pulls it off with grace and confidence I've only rarely seen in women that fit what this thread assumes is societies 'ideal'. My girlfriend is the opposite, in size and frame etc. She's petite...yet isn't skinny (she works out almost daily and is strong and healthy...much more attractive imo). She has that same confidence. But here is the thing...it has NOTHING to do with their bodies you see? They are attractive on the inside, know it...and it shines through like a beacon. EVERYONE sees it.
To me, that is 'societies ideal'...and they flat own it.
You all could too...if you made the choice.
Fantastic response! Made me smile and feel all fuzzy on the inside
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Companies couldn't sell you things if you were happy with your hair and skin as it is, your simple clothing, and just being an average woman who's ok with exercising to be healthy and making wise food choices. Women are more susceptible to care about socially constructed ideas of beauty because most of us are born and raised being told (or not told) how pretty (or not pretty) we are. Most of our value lies in how we look from the day we're born.
Advertising companies are fully versed in the psychology of the human mind. And it's not that they're "evil" or anything - they just know how to get you to do/buy things. We're not even aware of it most of the time because we're so used to it. My confidence has always been a little high, but it went through the roof when I stopped watching TV and reading magazines (even "fitness" related ones). There's no need to constantly feel like you could be doing better - and the "better" I'm referring to isn't even something you come up with yourself - it's what someone else tells you is better. Seriously, I challenge any woman to give up TV shows and magazines for a year. See what happens.0 -
Women are more susceptible to care about socially constructed ideas of beauty because most of us are born and raised being told (or not told) how pretty (or not pretty) we are. Most of our value lies in how we look from the day we're born.
Yes, exactly.
Whilst it is for the individual to bear personal responsibility for thinking for themselves on getting an objective viewpoint on how the world is in reality then how it is projected through various mediums, such as advertising, it can be surprisingly difficult. You simply cannot disregard the affect that socialisation and social conditioning can have on people. Not only women, but men as well.
If you look at standards of beauty across the ages and what women have aspired to become they have changed radically . A woman in a painting by Rubens epitomised the height of beauty in her time. They had ample curves and would be considered "fat" by today's standards. This tells us that beauty is very much a subjective as opposed to objective benchmark and is driven by things over and above nature. In today's age it is market forces.
We all are bombarded from cradle to grave by images of what we "should" look like. It is not suprising that many of us get effectively brainwashed by this constant conditioning...0 -
Most men will show you (even TELL you) exactly who and what they are if you bother to pay attention. The problem is that women today are so emotionally messed up that even when they meet someone who is completely wrong for them, they play the "But I'll fix him, and it'll be romantic and awesome!" game. And by the time they figure out that fixing someone is not their responsibility (and not possible anyway), it's too late. Life is about choices, and when you make the wrong one, it's not always about someone else.
Wish I'd known this when I was 18.0 -
there are several kinds of men out there:
1. those who prefer barbies
2. those who like athletic women
3. those who like mature [age] women
4. those who like younger women
5. those who like thick/curvy women
6. those who like willowy women
7. those who like very very large women
8. those who like other men.
aaaall of the types of dudes have the potential to be terrific partners, oooor complete jerks. you have to find the guy who isnt a jerk.
i know my husband likes thick curvy women. he likes how i look now. but i want to loose weight. he will still love me, but admits he will have to adjust to how i look if i loose weight. will he 'check out' other women if i become stick thin? yeah. probably. but its neither his fault or mine if that happens. he likes what he likes. and i dont blame him for that.0
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