Anyone take St Johns Wort?
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Examine.com has a write up on it. The headline...Hypericum Perforatum (St. John's Wort) is an anti-depressant herb that is commonly used for its neurological effects. While it appears effective, it is well known to adversely interact with a variety of pharmaceuticals.
Lots more here: https://examine.com/supplements/hypericum-perforatum/1 -
Other than hypomania (which is common if you have bipopar 2 and take an AD without a mood stabilizer) I have never really had any negative side effects with most ADs (I have tried quite a few)2
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I wonder if I can raise the flag for the use of vit D. I don't have links at my finger tips to support the increasing understanding of its role in our health, now being thought to function more as a mineral than a vitamin. Here in the UK it is suggested we should take year round vit D because our position on the globe and we don't all spend enough time outside.
All the very best.4 -
My husband had extreme effects to SSRIs and cycled through several before being diagnosed as bipolar 2. Once he got on meds for that, no issues. Sometimes reactions to medications means the diagnosis is wrong.
*not saying this is the case here...just some food for thought.2 -
Thanks for all the replies. I'm on day 2 but only taking one capsule when it recommends 1 capsule 3 times a day but i'm a bit wary. Maybe i will increase to 2 a day in a week or so. We don't really "do" therapy in this country, I can imagine it being expensive. I suppose I could go back to the docs and talk to him he's good. I don't want to be put on any SSRI's though cos i had them before (Paxil) and they made me go nuts lol
That's a common warning sign of bipolar disorder. It doesn't mean you have it. But if "nuts" is mania or hypomania (which is what I get; I am type 2 bipolar), it isn't unusual for SSRIs to trigger it. When I get hypomanic "just because", it is usually happy puppy hypomania, which bothers other people more than me (because I am suddenly much smarter than them, or at least I think so). When I get it from an SSRI trigger, it is irritable/paranoid hypomania which is no fun for me or anyone else.5 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Other than hypomania (which is common if you have bipopar 2 and take an AD without a mood stabilizer) I have never really had any negative side effects with most ADs (I have tried quite a few)
Mood stabilizer (lamictal in my case) doesn't stop the ADs from triggering me. I was able to titrate wellbutrin to a level where it didn't do that but then it wasn't effective. Increasing the lamictal helped though. The depression sied of BP2 really sucks but for some reason they are a lot better at treating the euphoria.2 -
My husband had extreme effects to SSRIs and cycled through several before being diagnosed as bipolar 2. Once he got on meds for that, no issues. Sometimes reactions to medications means the diagnosis is wrong.
*not saying this is the case here...just some food for thought.
That's how I got my bipolar 2 diagnosis. I would become hypomanic. It took many years to figure it out. I was told I was too "happy" to be depressed. Crazy as hypomania in response to antidepressants is a major sign of Bipolar 2.4 -
CarvedTones wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Other than hypomania (which is common if you have bipopar 2 and take an AD without a mood stabilizer) I have never really had any negative side effects with most ADs (I have tried quite a few)
Mood stabilizer (lamictal in my case) doesn't stop the ADs from triggering me. I was able to titrate wellbutrin to a level where it didn't do that but then it wasn't effective. Increasing the lamictal helped though. The depression sied of BP2 really sucks but for some reason they are a lot better at treating the euphoria.
My current Dr (not a psych) refuses to give me a mood stabilizer at all unfortunately. I've tried so many ADs but the only time they don't cause hm is when the dose is so low it doesn't help. I was on an AD specifically for weight gain, appetite and nausea control (Mirtazipine) and it worked well for that but I couldn't handle the hm. I really wanted to stay on it so I started taling heavy duty sleeping pills to counteract the 1 hour of sleep a night I was getting but eventually has to go off of it. There's only 1 thing that helps my mood without hm but I'm not allowed to mention that here lol2 -
tcunbeliever wrote: »You may find a D3 supplement to be better mood support than St. John's Wort...particularly since you live where there is not a lot of sunshine, and you are probably low if you don't already supplement.
yeah I was going to tell op to have her vitamin D checked as that can make you feel like she is
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singingflutelady wrote: »Other than hypomania (which is common if you have bipopar 2 and take an AD without a mood stabilizer) I have never really had any negative side effects with most ADs (I have tried quite a few)
I wish i could take them, i bet it would help but the last time i tried i couldn't get past day 2, i had 50 panic attacks, vomited 13 times and was threatening to jump off a bridge. I had tried 2 different ones before i was scared shitless to ever try again.4 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Other than hypomania (which is common if you have bipopar 2 and take an AD without a mood stabilizer) I have never really had any negative side effects with most ADs (I have tried quite a few)
I wish i could take them, i bet it would help but the last time i tried i couldn't get past day 2, i had 50 panic attacks, vomited 13 times and was threatening to jump off a bridge. I had tried 2 different ones before i was scared shitless to ever try again.
That possibility could be hypomania. I can not sleep when on AD. When I am on a mood stabilizer as well it is much better.3 -
Been taking it forever, love it. One in the morning and one before bed. Also maybe you should try ginseng. And b vitamins. That's my let's be chill and happy prescription.4
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singingflutelady wrote: »My husband had extreme effects to SSRIs and cycled through several before being diagnosed as bipolar 2. Once he got on meds for that, no issues. Sometimes reactions to medications means the diagnosis is wrong.
*not saying this is the case here...just some food for thought.
That's how I got my bipolar 2 diagnosis. I would become hypomanic. It took many years to figure it out. I was told I was too "happy" to be depressed. Crazy as hypomania in response to antidepressants is a major sign of Bipolar 2.
Wow that is a scary thought of diagnosis for me
I don't know how i would feel but everytime i go to the docs he says i have a little bit of depression and anxiety. He's never diagnosed me with regular depression but i guess thats my fault because I keep a happy demeanor on the outside but feel so lost on the inside. The other day i had to watch comedies to stop myself from just bursting into tears for no reason .I was so upset but I don't understand why. I felt like a fool. Eventually i just cried for an hour cos i couldn't take the build up and repressing it any longer. I felt a bit better after, had a bath and went to bed early.
I have vitamin D here so i will begin this and maybe magnesium too to try boost myself.
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singingflutelady wrote: »My husband had extreme effects to SSRIs and cycled through several before being diagnosed as bipolar 2. Once he got on meds for that, no issues. Sometimes reactions to medications means the diagnosis is wrong.
*not saying this is the case here...just some food for thought.
That's how I got my bipolar 2 diagnosis. I would become hypomanic. It took many years to figure it out. I was told I was too "happy" to be depressed. Crazy as hypomania in response to antidepressants is a major sign of Bipolar 2.
Wow that is a scary thought of diagnosis for me I don't know how i would feel but everytime i go to the docs he says i have a little bit of depression and anxiety. He's never diagnosed me with regular depression but i guess thats my fault because I keep a happy demeanor on the outside but feel so lost on the inside. The other day i had to watch comedies to stop myself from just bursting into tears for no reason .I was so upset but I don't understand why. I felt like a fool. Eventually i just cried for an hour cos i couldn't take the build up and repressing it any longer. I felt a bit better after, had a bath and went to bed early.
I have vitamin D here so i will begin this and maybe magnesium too to try boost myself.
I am a closet crier when I get depressed. I can't do the happy face but I don't tell people outside of my care team how bad it is.
I hear you about the scary diagnosis. The social stigma isn't as bad as it used to be, but it still exists. You tell people you are depressed and they try to cheer you up. Tell them you have ADHD and some people will roll their eyes and some will joke about it, but it doesn't ever seem to make anyone uncomfortable or think less of you. Tell them you are bipolar and they hide the knives.5 -
Hi - I am just chiming in as a retired mental health professional. I concur with previous advice about getting a reputable brand of St. Johns Wort (as key ingredient varies among brands), and noting that the SSRI hypomanic effect is possible with St. Johns Wort as well although not as common as the SSRI component of SJW is usually lower than what is prescribed. I like your idea of starting low and building up. I like the advice about vitamin D3. Some people have also found a complex vitamin B supplement helpful. These are things to talk over with your primary care provider. I would also suggest getting a light box and using it every morning for 15-30 minutes. In the US we can get them via amazon, and the one that I use in the fall/winter is a sphere gadget technologies box. I don't think it's available now but it was about US$40. The key is getting one that gives 10,000 lux
If you find that these approaches aren't helping as much as you would like them to, please do consider seeing a counselor. I know that the NHS in the UK is big on cognitive behavioral therapy and that is a time-limited approach that can be really useful. Also, I would be remiss if I didn't advise you to consult with your primary care provider as there are physical health conditions that have depression as one of the symptoms.
Finally, having depression is not a sign of weakness or anything to feel foolish about. It's very common, and can be quite challenging. I am glad you are looking into things that might help
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What general part of the world do you live in? If you're in Europe or North America I'm more than willing to bet that there are therapists given where I have lived as well as people I know who live in various areas of the world and are in or have been in therapy. Going to therapy is pretty stigmatized in a lot of places, the US included (where I currently live), that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying (or at the very least seeing if your insurance covers it and/or how much it costs without insurance). Depending on where you are there could also be therapists who charge on a sliding scale.Thanks for all the replies. I'm on day 2 but only taking one capsule when it recommends 1 capsule 3 times a day but i'm a bit wary. Maybe i will increase to 2 a day in a week or so. We don't really "do" therapy in this country, I can imagine it being expensive. I suppose I could go back to the docs and talk to him he's good. I don't want to be put on any SSRI's though cos i had them before (Paxil) and they made me go nuts lol
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What general part of the world do you live in? If you're in Europe or North America I'm more than willing to bet that there are therapists given where I have lived as well as people I know who live in various areas of the world and are in or have been in therapy. Going to therapy is pretty stigmatized in a lot of places, the US included (where I currently live), that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying (or at the very least seeing if your insurance covers it and/or how much it costs without insurance). Depending on where you are there could also be therapists who charge on a sliding scale.Thanks for all the replies. I'm on day 2 but only taking one capsule when it recommends 1 capsule 3 times a day but i'm a bit wary. Maybe i will increase to 2 a day in a week or so. We don't really "do" therapy in this country, I can imagine it being expensive. I suppose I could go back to the docs and talk to him he's good. I don't want to be put on any SSRI's though cos i had them before (Paxil) and they made me go nuts lol
Again thanks everyone for the great insights. I did used to take a B complex but found they gave me the jitters did anyone else find this?? I'm from Ireland and only a few years ago if you were on AD's people would say you're a basket case etc. Or people would be like, oh think of all the good things in your life, there are people far worse off than you, what do you have to be depressed about... not very helpful
I'm afraid i will look ridiculous to a therapist because I really don't have things to be so down about. I mean we all get sad over this or that but i'm constantly overwhelmed with a few minor changes in life and my health. Maybe anxiety making a comeback? I have a tiny bit of xanax which helps extremely, (to me its like a summers day in a pill) if i get really bad, but they don't like giving that out here , i'm only allowed less than 10 a year(i take them in halfs when needed on real bad days) 3 -
Hi - I am just chiming in as a retired mental health professional. I concur with previous advice about getting a reputable brand of St. Johns Wort (as key ingredient varies among brands), and noting that the SSRI hypomanic effect is possible with St. Johns Wort as well although not as common as the SSRI component of SJW is usually lower than what is prescribed. I like your idea of starting low and building up. I like the advice about vitamin D3. Some people have also found a complex vitamin B supplement helpful. These are things to talk over with your primary care provider. I would also suggest getting a light box and using it every morning for 15-30 minutes. In the US we can get them via amazon, and the one that I use in the fall/winter is a sphere gadget technologies box. I don't think it's available now but it was about US$40. The key is getting one that gives 10,000 lux
If you find that these approaches aren't helping as much as you would like them to, please do consider seeing a counselor. I know that the NHS in the UK is big on cognitive behavioral therapy and that is a time-limited approach that can be really useful. Also, I would be remiss if I didn't advise you to consult with your primary care provider as there are physical health conditions that have depression as one of the symptoms.
Finally, having depression is not a sign of weakness or anything to feel foolish about. It's very common, and can be quite challenging. I am glad you are looking into things that might help
Are these lights good!?? I've had this suggestion before but was afraid it wouldnt work and i'd waste my money. If it would definitely help i would get one1 -
What general part of the world do you live in? If you're in Europe or North America I'm more than willing to bet that there are therapists given where I have lived as well as people I know who live in various areas of the world and are in or have been in therapy. Going to therapy is pretty stigmatized in a lot of places, the US included (where I currently live), that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying (or at the very least seeing if your insurance covers it and/or how much it costs without insurance). Depending on where you are there could also be therapists who charge on a sliding scale.Thanks for all the replies. I'm on day 2 but only taking one capsule when it recommends 1 capsule 3 times a day but i'm a bit wary. Maybe i will increase to 2 a day in a week or so. We don't really "do" therapy in this country, I can imagine it being expensive. I suppose I could go back to the docs and talk to him he's good. I don't want to be put on any SSRI's though cos i had them before (Paxil) and they made me go nuts lol
Again thanks everyone for the great insights. I did used to take a B complex but found they gave me the jitters did anyone else find this?? I'm from Ireland and only a few years ago if you were on AD's people would say you're a basket case etc. Or people would be like, oh think of all the good things in your life, there are people far worse off than you, what do you have to be depressed about... not very helpfulI'm afraid i will look ridiculous to a therapist because I really don't have things to be so down about. I mean we all get sad over this or that but i'm constantly overwhelmed with a few minor changes in life and my health. Maybe anxiety making a comeback? I have a tiny bit of xanax which helps extremely, (to me its like a summers day in a pill) if i get really bad, but they don't like giving that out here , i'm only allowed less than 10 a year(i take them in halfs when needed on real bad days)
Having depression is not about feeling depressed about specific things. It's a medical, mental condition that can happen for no outer reason at all. Some people with it don't even feel sad. Some feel next to nothing. No reputable therapist is going to judge you for feeling depressed or anxious. They are there to help you find ways to manage it.8 -
Believe me, a therapist is used to talking with people who are anxious and depressed when there's absolutely no external cause. If you are depressed for "no reason", you have a mental health issue. I found it helpful to be honest with my doctor about everything (especially crying jags when there's nothing wrong you can put your finger on). If you're minimizing your experience to your doctor, there's no way your doctor can give you the help you need. So do your best to not presume that a doctor or a therapist will think you're being ridiculous!
A therapist is trained to help you (1) talk through these challenging issues and (2) explore with you some coping mechanisms you might not have thought of.
And if you're concerned that other people are going to try to jolly you out of your down moods or shame you for not simply being grateful for what you have, do this: do not tell other people your diagnosis and do not tell them what medications you're taking. It's nobody's business. And if a person hasn't experienced clinical depression, all they are familiar with is having "the blues" when there's actually something wrong in their lives like a death in the family or problems with a co-worker or a romantic breakup, etc. A therapist or counselor is someone who can actually listen to you and help you. Best of luck!5
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