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First day of keto. Feel sick

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  • CNG24CNG24 Member Posts: 432 Member Member Posts: 432 Member
    Electrolytes!!!! Also Magnesium softgels for constipation. Def sounds like peeps suffering from Keto Flu. Exogenous/therapeutic Ketones can help with keto flu too :)
    edited September 2018
  • amywizengamotamywizengamot Member, Premium Posts: 14 Member Member, Premium Posts: 14 Member
    It is hard to start!!! I’m following a ketogenic diet for health reasons as well and it seemed very unfair to me that it makes you feel so much worse before improvements begin.

    I second the need for magnesium and vitamin supplements — they really will help. (B vitamins!!) If you start out with the recommended carb limit, you can slowly ratchet up your fat intake to make it easier on your system. I hope that this works for you and you end up feeling great!
  • gaelicstormgaelicstorm Member Posts: 94 Member Member Posts: 94 Member
    Are you taking oral meds for your blood sugar? If you are, there are times they can act up when we take in too much fat.

    You might also be able to significantly lower your numbers through going low-carb instead of keto but adding in some physical activity. Many people see a positive change in blood sugar numbers after losing 5-10% of their body weight.

    My carbs vary anywhere from 50 to 120 (if I'm having a treat day).
  • rsclausersclause Member Posts: 3,124 Member Member Posts: 3,124 Member
    What happened to me is I started researching keto and as I started to entertain the idea I started reducing carbs. I think this slower transition was better than just throwing the switch. I gradually increased fat over about a week. I did get a slightly off feeling and increased my salt intake. After I became comfortable with my progress I added MCT oil to my coffee and increased my fat a bit more. I have been losing weight and inches but plan on continuing LCHF diet indefinitely.
  • TheHuff_TheHuff_ Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    Hey guys! Wow so much response. THANK YOU SO MUCH. There's a lot to reply to so I'll be concise:

    The magnesium and electrolytes are a good idea. I'll look into them. For those mentioning multi-vitamins, I don't actually take any. Maybe I should? I'm concerned about expenses though and aim to get most of my nutrition from food.

    Regarding my extreme reaction to keto on the first day, I have no idea why. I cooked 1tbsp vegetable oil, half a small onion, half 1tbsp ginger garlic paste, 3 eggs, 2 cups raw spinach and salt and spice, with half cup grated cheddar cheese. It tasted amazing but I could only eat half. It was sickening how fatty it was. I also sprinkled some flax seeds on top. I've had 1 cup of grapes since then which has reduced the sick feeling but I'm surprisingly full considering how little I've eaten today.

    Meds: I don't take any meds and don't have diabetes but I have PCOS which is thought to be caused by insulin resistance, hence why I'm trying to reduce carbs etc

    I realise reducing carbs more slowly and not as extremely as keto but like I said, today was kind of a spontaneous experiment. Is it worth persevering and continuing?

    The food suggestions like avocado and nuts are great, thanks! I can't eat bacon.

    I didn't realise insulin is released every hour?? Wow

    I've been getting healthy for a while and have reduced things like chocolate. My main vice is foods such as rice :/ any ideas?

    I just can't fathom how much fat one needs to eat on a low carb or high fat diet. It's an immense amount! And I still don't understand how it's healthy except that it somehow burns as a cleaner fuel than glucose and reduces insulin resistance over time.

    Thanks so much again everyone!
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,755 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,755 MFP Moderator
    TheHuff_ wrote: »
    Hey guys! Wow so much response. THANK YOU SO MUCH. There's a lot to reply to so I'll be concise:

    The magnesium and electrolytes are a good idea. I'll look into them. For those mentioning multi-vitamins, I don't actually take any. Maybe I should? I'm concerned about expenses though and aim to get most of my nutrition from food.

    Regarding my extreme reaction to keto on the first day, I have no idea why. I cooked 1tbsp vegetable oil, half a small onion, half 1tbsp ginger garlic paste, 3 eggs, 2 cups raw spinach and salt and spice, with half cup grated cheddar cheese. It tasted amazing but I could only eat half. It was sickening how fatty it was. I also sprinkled some flax seeds on top. I've had 1 cup of grapes since then which has reduced the sick feeling but I'm surprisingly full considering how little I've eaten today.

    Meds: I don't take any meds and don't have diabetes but I have PCOS which is thought to be caused by insulin resistance, hence why I'm trying to reduce carbs etc

    I realise reducing carbs more slowly and not as extremely as keto but like I said, today was kind of a spontaneous experiment. Is it worth persevering and continuing?

    The food suggestions like avocado and nuts are great, thanks! I can't eat bacon.

    I didn't realise insulin is released every hour?? Wow

    I've been getting healthy for a while and have reduced things like chocolate. My main vice is foods such as rice :/ any ideas?

    I just can't fathom how much fat one needs to eat on a low carb or high fat diet. It's an immense amount! And I still don't understand how it's healthy except that it somehow burns as a cleaner fuel than glucose and reduces insulin resistance over time.

    Thanks so much again everyone!

    You can be low carb and not have a ton of fat. You would focus a bit more on protein, which is not a bad thing during weight loss. If you have PCOS, you dont' need to go keto, you can manage your carbs a bit. Many see success on 100g or less. Now if keto makes you more compliant or you feel better, by all means, but don't force your self if it causes other issues.
  • TheHuff_TheHuff_ Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    100g seems way more manageable! Thanks!
  • 23rochelle2323rochelle23 Member Posts: 269 Member Member Posts: 269 Member
    Try out cauliflower rice as a replacement for normal rice - alternatively there is a ‘zero rice’ type product similar to the miracle noodles (made out of non digestible starch so v low cal/carb)

    Doing that alone may significantly reduce your carb intake if you have a mainly rice based diet.

    Also, as @psuLemon mentioned you can focus more on increased protein rather than added fat. I follow a lazyish keto protocol (carbs 10-50) The only ‘intentional’ fat I add is when I have cream with berries (because it’s delicious). Every time I’ve checked on medical urinalysis/ketone blood testing strips I’ve been in ketosis (I don’t bother checking now because I’m not doing it for a medical reason - purely because it’s an enjoyable way of eating for me).

    Good luck
  • nvmomketonvmomketo Member Posts: 12,020 Member Member Posts: 12,020 Member
    I'd bet money that what you felt was low electrolytes, mainly low sodium. Symptoms of low electrolytes are headaches, fatigue, brain fog, moodiness, stomach upset and BM issues, muscle weakness and possibly muscle spasms.

    When you cut carbs your insulin drops. Insulin is partially responsible for water and electrolyte retention. Most will lose water weight and sodium once insulin starts falling. You need to replace those lost electrolytes with at least 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day. For reference, there is 2300 mg of sodium in a teaspoon of salt. Eating a half teaspoon of salt a couple if times a day will help. Others prefer to have a couple cups of salty boullion, drink pickle juice, take salt tablets, or make their own salty Mio "keto-aide". There is usually no need to worry about taking too much sodium as your kidneys will excrete any excess, caution may be needed if you gave kidney problems but not if you are healthy.

    Also, early on in ketosis, you with use your glycogen stores which may take days to fully replace. You'll lose additional water and sodium with that.

    If you do not take care of sodium, you'll start leeching magnesium and potassium out of your body and they may get low too.

    I know it seems like a lot, but if you look into some reliable sources, you'll see it repeated.

    It is possible that too much fat too fast could cause some stomach upset and diahrrea, especially coconut oil. If you increase fat slowly over a week or month, that will not be an issue though.

    Good luck. I've been keto for a few years to control my blood glucose and help with other health issues. Happily it made weight management rather effortless for me too. I wish you the same success.
  • TheHuff_TheHuff_ Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I'd bet money that what you felt was low electrolytes, mainly low sodium. Symptoms of low electrolytes are headaches, fatigue, brain fog, moodiness, stomach upset and BM issues, muscle weakness and possibly muscle spasms.

    When you cut carbs your insulin drops. Insulin is partially responsible for water and electrolyte retention. Most will lose water weight and sodium once insulin starts falling. You need to replace those lost electrolytes with at least 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day. For reference, there is 2300 mg of sodium in a teaspoon of salt. Eating a half teaspoon of salt a couple if times a day will help. Others prefer to have a couple cups of salty boullion, drink pickle juice, take salt tablets, or make their own salty Mio "keto-aide". There is usually no need to worry about taking too much sodium as your kidneys will excrete any excess, caution may be needed if you gave kidney problems but not if you are healthy.

    Also, early on in ketosis, you with use your glycogen stores which may take days to fully replace. You'll lose additional water and sodium with that.

    If you do not take care of sodium, you'll start leeching magnesium and potassium out of your body and they may get low too.

    I know it seems like a lot, but if you look into some reliable sources, you'll see it repeated.

    It is possible that too much fat too fast could cause some stomach upset and diahrrea, especially coconut oil. If you increase fat slowly over a week or month, that will not be an issue though.

    Good luck. I've been keto for a few years to control my blood glucose and help with other health issues. Happily it made weight management rather effortless for me too. I wish you the same success.

    Wow thank you so much! Such a thorough and informational post. I really appreciate it
  • TheHuff_TheHuff_ Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    Try out cauliflower rice as a replacement for normal rice - alternatively there is a ‘zero rice’ type product similar to the miracle noodles (made out of non digestible starch so v low cal/carb)

    Doing that alone may significantly reduce your carb intake if you have a mainly rice based diet.

    Also, as @psuLemon mentioned you can focus more on increased protein rather than added fat. I follow a lazyish keto protocol (carbs 10-50) The only ‘intentional’ fat I add is when I have cream with berries (because it’s delicious). Every time I’ve checked on medical urinalysis/ketone blood testing strips I’ve been in ketosis (I don’t bother checking now because I’m not doing it for a medical reason - purely because it’s an enjoyable way of eating for me).

    Good luck

    I went and bought some cauliflower today! Thanks so much for your response
  • qweck3qweck3 Member, Premium Posts: 346 Member Member, Premium Posts: 346 Member
    I'd suggest joining the Keto group on MFP. Not saying the information here is right or wrong but they can help you with a general consensus of regular practicers of Keto. There are a few diabetics on there as well.

    I've used Keto and am off pills completely with an average 3 month blood sugar of 104. It works in controlling diabetes but many tweaks will need to be done to get to your fit.
  • nvmomketonvmomketo Member Posts: 12,020 Member Member Posts: 12,020 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I'd bet money that what you felt was low electrolytes, mainly low sodium. Symptoms of low electrolytes are headaches, fatigue, brain fog, moodiness, stomach upset and BM issues, muscle weakness and possibly muscle spasms.

    When you cut carbs your insulin drops. Insulin is partially responsible for water and electrolyte retention. Most will lose water weight and sodium once insulin starts falling. You need to replace those lost electrolytes with at least 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day. For reference, there is 2300 mg of sodium in a teaspoon of salt. Eating a half teaspoon of salt a couple if times a day will help. Others prefer to have a couple cups of salty boullion, drink pickle juice, take salt tablets, or make their own salty Mio "keto-aide". There is usually no need to worry about taking too much sodium as your kidneys will excrete any excess, caution may be needed if you gave kidney problems but not if you are healthy.

    Also, early on in ketosis, you with use your glycogen stores which may take days to fully replace. You'll lose additional water and sodium with that.

    If you do not take care of sodium, you'll start leeching magnesium and potassium out of your body and they may get low too.

    I know it seems like a lot, but if you look into some reliable sources, you'll see it repeated.

    It is possible that too much fat too fast could cause some stomach upset and diahrrea, especially coconut oil. If you increase fat slowly over a week or month, that will not be an issue though.

    Good luck. I've been keto for a few years to control my blood glucose and help with other health issues. Happily it made weight management rather effortless for me too. I wish you the same success.

    You don't replace liver glycogen.. if you did, your body wouldn't produce ketones.

    That doesn't make sense to me. Liver glycogen will be replaced. It may not be immediate, but it is replaced. Those in ketosis do (usually) eat some carbs; plus they become quite good at gluconeogenesis (which occurs in the liver).
  • nvmomketonvmomketo Member Posts: 12,020 Member Member Posts: 12,020 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I'd bet money that what you felt was low electrolytes, mainly low sodium. Symptoms of low electrolytes are headaches, fatigue, brain fog, moodiness, stomach upset and BM issues, muscle weakness and possibly muscle spasms.

    When you cut carbs your insulin drops. Insulin is partially responsible for water and electrolyte retention. Most will lose water weight and sodium once insulin starts falling. You need to replace those lost electrolytes with at least 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day. For reference, there is 2300 mg of sodium in a teaspoon of salt. Eating a half teaspoon of salt a couple if times a day will help. Others prefer to have a couple cups of salty boullion, drink pickle juice, take salt tablets, or make their own salty Mio "keto-aide". There is usually no need to worry about taking too much sodium as your kidneys will excrete any excess, caution may be needed if you gave kidney problems but not if you are healthy.

    Also, early on in ketosis, you with use your glycogen stores which may take days to fully replace. You'll lose additional water and sodium with that.

    If you do not take care of sodium, you'll start leeching magnesium and potassium out of your body and they may get low too.

    I know it seems like a lot, but if you look into some reliable sources, you'll see it repeated.

    It is possible that too much fat too fast could cause some stomach upset and diahrrea, especially coconut oil. If you increase fat slowly over a week or month, that will not be an issue though.

    Good luck. I've been keto for a few years to control my blood glucose and help with other health issues. Happily it made weight management rather effortless for me too. I wish you the same success.

    You don't replace liver glycogen.. if you did, your body wouldn't produce ketones.

    That doesn't make sense to me. Liver glycogen will be replaced. It may not be immediate, but it is replaced. Those in ketosis do (usually) eat some carbs; plus they become quite good at gluconeogenesis (which occurs in the liver).

    I don't know how it doesn't make sense. As a result of glycogen depletion (non skeletal/muscle), your body will produce ketones for an energy source. If it repleniselhed glycogen through glucenogenesis, it would stop producing ketones, so you would be back to burning carbs instead of ketones. Your liver can hold roughly 300-500g. A level that would never by achieve through keto dieting.

    I know you want to believe that keto dieters can achieve and perform at the levels that carb dieters are at, but they aren't. Its why there are so few keto elite athletes.

    As I understand it, the liver only holds 90-120 g of glycogen, and not 300-500 g. That sounds more like the muscles'glycogen store.

    The liver's glycogen supply can be used up in less than half a day for someone who is carb based for their fuel source. That will deplete their glycogen storage, but gluconeogenesis can make more. The body's minimum glucose use is about what the liver can store, and that minimum glucose need tends to shrink once someone is fat adapted and the brain is using ketones rather than glucose for fuel.

    It isn't a glucose/glycogen or fat/ketones debate. Someone eating zero carbs will still use all of those for fuel, just the amounts in each group will vary.

    I can see where you would say that one would never be in ketosis if the liver actually stored 300-500 g glycogen, but it doesn't. The body does become adapted to using fat and ketones for fuel so even if glucose is available, the body is not compelled to use only glucose unless excessive/high amounts of glucose are present. But glucose will get used along with fat and ketones.

    If you believe there is no glycogen stored in my liver, that means I am using glucose only as my liver produces it.... You do not believe that the liver will replenish and its own glycogen store?

    And Athletics have nothing to do with this topic unless you are referring to muscle glycogen stores, which definitely do not stay depleted. Glycogen is available there too.
  • TheHuff_TheHuff_ Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    Hey guys, sorry I don't know about this topic so can't really input anything but it's interesting to read your thoughts. Thanks :) I'm learning
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