Bulk or nah?
OnalimOjag
Posts: 79 Member
I’ve already posted this question with a photo of me when I just woke up and people told me to bulk but I’m really not sure. Here are my photos as of tonight. I’m 140lbs and 5’6
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Replies
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Kind of bloated as I’ve had eaten a lot today and ate an ice cream a few hours ago.0
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This is
me when I’m not bloated and have just woken up0 -
I mean I would if I wasn’t still fat, only for vanity reasons though. I feel like it it transforms you like day and night. It’s up to you.2
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I mean I would if I wasn’t still fat, only for vanity reasons though. I feel like it it transforms you like day and night. It’s up to you.
I would really love to bulk and gain some muscle but I know that if you have too much fat, you won’t really gain a lot of muscle when you bulk so that’s where I’m at right now cause I don’t mind gaining some fat as long as I am gaining muscle as well. I just hate how bloated I get when I’m eating a lot especially with high carbs.0 -
@psuLemon @AnvilHead any advice for OP?2
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Your body weight is good but you don't have much definition. I'd recomp for a bit and get leaner before a bulk. Develop some muscle and lose some fat. Then bulk. Your body fat looks a little too high to maximize the benefits of a bulk but I wouldn't cut more.8
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »@psuLemon @AnvilHead any advice for OP?
Yeah - read the responses he got to his last thread on the exact same topic, which he posted two weeks ago. Nothing has changed between then and now except that he's apparently awake now.5 -
@OnalimOjag What's your goal?
You mentioned vanity in one of the posts above so I assume you have an aesthetic in mind?
What you do with your body depends on what you are aiming to achieve. Not on the comments of some random internet forum users who have no idea of what you are trying to achieve.
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If your goal is still "get stronger and look better" then recomp would match those goals as you will get leaner and stronger by adding some muscle and losing some fat.
Look better is very subjective though and I'm assuming you want a lean look - some like that look and some prefer a bigger look. Think Bruce Lee v. Bolo Yeung in the film Enter the Dragon perhaps.
Yes I'm showing my age!
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Bulk bulk bulk!5
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I would just do a body recomp even if the progress is slower. Body recomp means eating at maintenance right?2
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OnalimOjag wrote: »Thanks for all the suggestions. I would just do a body recomp even if the progress is slower. Body recomp means eating at maintenance right?
At or around maintenance calories, it doesn't have to be precisely maintenance calories.2 -
Your training regime and workout intensity is way more important. Dont bulk by the way. It will slow your progress.8
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Your training regime and workout intensity is way more important. Dont bulk by the way. It will slow your progress.
You keep saying this. It's not true in any way. I'm not saying the OP needs to bulk. If he's at the weight he wants to be and his goal isn't to gain a significant amount of muscle beyond his current weight then a recomp is probably the best way to go. It will depend on his goals.
What would you advise a dude who is very thin, maybe even underweight, who wants to be 50 pounds heavier and yoked? How do you suppose that person is going to ADD that amount of mass and muscle without eating in a surplus, which is what a bulk basically is. Eating in a surplus. That surplus can be very small - what is typically called a lean bulk, or it can be more aggressive, especially for a new lifter who is significantly underweight.
Do you really understand what a bulk is? ... or are you still stuck on the idea that a bulk just means eating uncontrollably until you are fat? How are you supposed to, in your view, add weight and mass to a physique, without exceeding maintenance calories? A recomp sure as hell isn't going to add significant weight (shouldn't really add any, technically).7 -
So what % of that 50 pounds do you think is muscle over a 12 month period? Well that depends hugely on what you do in and out of the gym. Hence my comment on training program and intensity.
Bulking in my mind is increasing your fat level beyond that at which your body naturally tends to sit (a healthy amount for you) for the one goal of pushing more weight and supposedly building muscle mass at a faster rate. I believe fat mass in excess of what is healthy, reduces overall fitness, efficiency of your system and muscle building efficiency and that its a fallacy that you build muscle faster if you have 15 pounds extra fat. Ive bulked a few times in the past. I personally dont think it helped me. I made my best gains when I was well into my cutting program, and in fact it was a giant pain getting the fat off again.
And yes, I believe you need to take in more calories than you burn, for growth to occur. How many calories varies from person to person ie if youre skinny or fat to start with. Your Job/Workout design/training intensity/rest, mostly determines how fast you put muscle on. Theres so much more to it than "should I bulk or not". I looked at the photos and gave my opinion based on my experience.7 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »@psuLemon @AnvilHead any advice for OP?
Yeah - read the responses he got to his last thread on the exact same topic, which he posted two weeks ago. Nothing has changed between then and now except that he's apparently awake now.
sorry I didnt read that post and didnt know it existed.3 -
So what % of that 50 pounds do you think is muscle over a 12 month period? Well that depends hugely on what you do in and out of the gym. Hence my comment on training program and intensity.
Bulking in my mind is increasing your fat level beyond that at which your body naturally tends to sit (a healthy amount for you) for the one goal of pushing more weight and supposedly building muscle mass at a faster rate. I believe fat mass in excess of what is healthy, reduces overall fitness, efficiency of your system and muscle building efficiency and that its a fallacy that you build muscle faster if you have 15 pounds extra fat. Ive bulked a few times in the past. I personally dont think it helped me. I made my best gains when I was well into my cutting program, and in fact it was a giant pain getting the fat off again.
And yes, I believe you need to take in more calories than you burn, for growth to occur. How many calories varies from person to person ie if youre skinny or fat to start with. Your Job/Workout design/training intensity/rest, mostly determines how fast you put muscle on. Theres so much more to it than "should I bulk or not". I looked at the photos and gave my opinion based on my experience.
Ah, but you see... We say "bulk" and mean Tomato. You say "bulk" and mean Ford. You are basically defining the term based on a few assumptions. First, nobody with any sense is suggesting that a person who is over-fat should bulk. The suggestion is 10%-13% body fat to start a bulk and then not to bulk over 15% body fat. Which, for all intents and purposes is still fairly lean and a very healthy/fit body fat percentage. Personally, I bulk until about 20% and that is STILL a healthy body fat percentage. Nobody says that you build faster with extra fat. Partitioning basically states that the higher the percentage of body fat then more of those gains (ratio wise at least) will be fat. This is why you don't bulk past a certain point - diminishing returns.
You didn't make any "gains" while deep into your "cutting program" unless you were obese to begin with and a newbie to lifting. You may have gained some strength, IF you CNS adaptations had room for it - once again typically only for newbies. Do you really think that intermediate to advanced lifters can typically gain muscle and lose fat at the same time?
Look, based on that wrinkled picture of you in your prime that you used to have up on your profile (that WAS you?) and your current physique, I'm going to hazard a guess here. You are or were a pretty advanced lifter who had pretty much reached their genetic limits for gains. Yes, there is a limit. You kept bulking and cutting and stopped seeing any real progress. All you saw were fat gains.... you understand that this is typical? Advanced lifters near their genetic natural limits really shouldn't be bulking... or if they do they should really really be careful to keep it as lean as they can as any muscle gains will be extremely limited. Gains are not linear and the more progress you make the slower those gains become.
Anyways, you state, "And yes, I believe you need to take in more calories than you burn, for growth to occur..."
Well, that is a bulk. Keeping the surplus moderate and starting at a fairly lean body fat percentage will keep fat gains to a minimum. Once you start crossing the line and partitioning becomes less than optimal. Cut.
"Bulking in my mind is increasing your fat level beyond that at which your body naturally tends to sit (a healthy amount for you)"
This is a bulk taken way too far. It's still a bulk - but taken too far. Nobody is advocating for this. Having to cut from this point would be a pitta. I know, I've done it.12 -
Ok, we are talking different definitions. Theres no universal definition of "bulking" A bulk can be 1 pound a year if you want. It sounds like you are talking slow gainers? I have no problem with a "slow bulk" to a few percent over what the body fat % is that genetics have decided for you (what you know as normal). The body naturally adjusts that up or down anyway depending on environment.
Its really hard to calculate BFP anyway. Most people wouldnt have a clue. Mirror is the best guide. Calipers a good and cheap way too.
Theres no hard evidence that "bulking" gives you any advantage, so why do it.
My comment to the OP was based on his photos. I think we could help him better by seeing what hes doing in and out of the gym.
Hes probably at a % fat that is normal for him and he dosnt need any more fat on him, from the pics. So I believe it would be counterproductive for him.
The real muscle building gets done in the gym (partnered with recuperation). Get the program/split, or not/intensity/days on and off right, and bulking becomes the least of your concern. And recuperation, your energy system, and exercise stress. A whole new important subject, we could probably disagree on
When you bulk (or cut), you cause an artificial change to your normal hormone levels. You have a natural body "set point" (% fat, hormone levels etc) determined by genetics. Dont mess with it too much. If you get into this bulk cut bulk cut etc scenario you are messing with your own hormones and energy system.
I certainly believe in adding more calories than you expend to gain muscle. No other way. But how much and which calories is not a cookie cutter recipe for all. Everyone needs a different amount of cals and type of cals.
The wrinkled pic? All I can say is that if I wanted a fake pic, I would have chosen something way better than that! Yes me at 29 yo, after 3 years consistent training. I reached most of my potential, not all. I needed to take juice to win from there, and wouldnt do it. Cheating in my book! Its true, gains slow when you get to that point, but what you do get, is a fuller musculature and more detail, from the extra exercises you do at that level, Cheers 3 -
Hooboy! I was with you till set point. Nope. Just nope. Somatypes and now set point? You really need to find better reading material. Like studies maybe?4
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Set point is a way of describing what you have been born with in terms of how your body functions when you gain/lose weight. Call it what you want. Your body knows what it is.5
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Set point is a way of describing what you have been born with in terms of how your body functions when you gain/lose weight. Call it what you want. Your body knows what it is.
Then how do people gain or lose large amounts of weight? If set point is a thing, that wouldn't happen. Because logic....3 -
Set point is just where your own hormones, BFP, metabolism, wants you to exist at, regardless of training. Just a dumb new term, like so many other terms that are bandied about that Ive read. Its set by genetics. For example, when I lose too much body fat, my body is always wanting to get back to what it wants me to be at. I'll call it normalisation. What no one seems to want to talk about is programs, workout intensity, maximising energy levels and recuperation. This is 3/4 of your muscle gain pie chart, give or take 6
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OnalimOjag wrote: »Thanks for all the suggestions. I would just do a body recomp even if the progress is slower. Body recomp means eating at maintenance right?
Best of luck to you Bro. Reassuring not everyone favors instant gratification (quicker results) which often comes at the expense/compromise of quality results
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »OnalimOjag wrote: »Thanks for all the suggestions. I would just do a body recomp even if the progress is slower. Body recomp means eating at maintenance right?
Best of luck to you Bro. Reassuring not everyone favors instant gratification (quicker results) which often comes at the expense/compromise of quality results
Thanks man! I wouldn’t mind a slower progress as I’m not in a hurry to more muscles plus winter is coming up so I’d rather be eating at around maintenance than cutting! Lol!2
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