Gaining strength in a deficit

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  • RealWorldStrengthLLC
    RealWorldStrengthLLC Posts: 552 Member
    edited October 2018
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    Chieflrg wrote: »
    youcantflexcardio wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Many factors can it be...

    1. You have added volume and your training is optimal stimulas in relations to your short come back..
    2. Your form had been improved.
    3. Your PR territory was governed by bad programming.
    4. You're not actually in a 1000 calorie deficit.
    5. Your fatigue has disapated from lack of volume and you're body is responding with a peak.
    6. You didn't test a true PR previously.

    Most of these don't equate to strength gains just better performance.

    Without knowing your programming and training, there isn't much we can guess.




    1. My training program is the same as when I came back to lifting in April.
    2. My form is solid...has been for years
    3. See 1
    4. I'm at a 1000 cal deficit. I'm losing 2lbs a week, like clockwork, and have been for over 2 months.
    5. See 1
    6. 2 months ago I struggle to deadlift 425 for 1. Yesterday I did 455 for 2 and probably had a 3rd in me. I know what weights I could lift, I write everything down - every set, every rep.

    1. If your programming has exactly the same stimulas,(reps, sets, intensity) you didn't for a fact gain strength. If you added weight to your lifts as you stated, your stimulas has changed. Post your an April workout and a current one from your logs if you disagree.
    2. Post a vid of four months ago and a current and let's see if your form has improved? If not, maybe we can give you done tips to further your progress.
    3. See 1
    4. As long as you calorie intake has dropped progressively this is possible.
    5. How are you measuring your fatigue within your programming? What timetable do you peak for each different lift within your programming?
    6. One test alone doesn't equate a true 1RM of strength. We all have bad days, weeks, or months. Again post vid of grindy 425 dead and 455×2@RPE 9.5 and I would hazard your form has improved and adaptation has taken place.

    My post as stated were examples of some of the things that can attribute to more weight lifted, of course not all. Things can get fuzzy without more data on you as a individual. Show examples of your data from workouts and vids from that time frame and we can give you the science why it could be happening as you asked for.

    I look forward to seeing your data/vids and congrats on your improvements!

    Unfortionately, I train alone, so no one to take vids. However - here are pics of my training log - The tan one is my back from about 2 weeks after the 425 deadlift in question (8/23) - as you can see, I did a deload after struggling with that. This is roughly 2 weeks after I started tracking food and put myself at a deficit (since we are talking about Deadlifts I chose to post back day). The green one is my back day last Saturday where I pulled 455 x 2 easy. If you can't read my crap handwriting just ask. For reference my formula for tracking is:
    EXCERSISE - reps@weight, the / separates the sets.

    EDIT: OK so I'm going to do a second edit to transcribe the logs since my photo post isn't working. Wait one...

    LOGS:

    8/23/18, BACK

    Lat Pull - 10@165/10@165/10@170/10@170
    Deadlifts - 5@315 (warm up) / 3@405/3@405
    Dumbell row - 10@85/10@85/10@85/10@85
    SUPERSET:
    Straight arm pull - 12@80/12@80/12@80
    Cable row - 12@180/12@180/13@180

    10/6/18 BACK

    Iso lateral high row - 10@230/10@230/11@230/10@230

    Deads - 5@315 (WU)/2@455/2@405
    DB Row - 10@100/10@100/10@100/10@100
    SUPERSET:
    Straight arm pull - 10@90/10@90/10@90
    Cable Row - 6@225/6@225/6@225

    STRONGMAN SUPERSET:
    315lbs Deadlift - 5/5/6/8
    Sledgehammer tire hits, 16lbs sledge - 30 sec/30sec/30sec/30sec

  • 100_PROOF_
    100_PROOF_ Posts: 1,168 Member
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    IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »
    I've been telling people it happened to me.

    Maybe you'll be more convincing to them than I was.

    Gaining strength isn't the same thing as gaining muscle
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
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    youcantflexcardio wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    youcantflexcardio wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Many factors can it be...

    1. You have added volume and your training is optimal stimulas in relations to your short come back..
    2. Your form had been improved.
    3. Your PR territory was governed by bad programming.
    4. You're not actually in a 1000 calorie deficit.
    5. Your fatigue has disapated from lack of volume and you're body is responding with a peak.
    6. You didn't test a true PR previously.

    Most of these don't equate to strength gains just better performance.

    Without knowing your programming and training, there isn't much we can guess.




    1. My training program is the same as when I came back to lifting in April.
    2. My form is solid...has been for years
    3. See 1
    4. I'm at a 1000 cal deficit. I'm losing 2lbs a week, like clockwork, and have been for over 2 months.
    5. See 1
    6. 2 months ago I struggle to deadlift 425 for 1. Yesterday I did 455 for 2 and probably had a 3rd in me. I know what weights I could lift, I write everything down - every set, every rep.

    1. If your programming has exactly the same stimulas,(reps, sets, intensity) you didn't for a fact gain strength. If you added weight to your lifts as you stated, your stimulas has changed. Post your an April workout and a current one from your logs if you disagree.
    2. Post a vid of four months ago and a current and let's see if your form has improved? If not, maybe we can give you done tips to further your progress.
    3. See 1
    4. As long as you calorie intake has dropped progressively this is possible.
    5. How are you measuring your fatigue within your programming? What timetable do you peak for each different lift within your programming?
    6. One test alone doesn't equate a true 1RM of strength. We all have bad days, weeks, or months. Again post vid of grindy 425 dead and 455×2@RPE 9.5 and I would hazard your form has improved and adaptation has taken place.

    My post as stated were examples of some of the things that can attribute to more weight lifted, of course not all. Things can get fuzzy without more data on you as a individual. Show examples of your data from workouts and vids from that time frame and we can give you the science why it could be happening as you asked for.

    I look forward to seeing your data/vids and congrats on your improvements!

    Unfortionately, I train alone, so no one to take vids. However - here are pics of my training log - The tan one is my back from about 2 weeks after the 425 deadlift in question (8/23) - as you can see, I did a deload after struggling with that. This is roughly 2 weeks after I started tracking food and put myself at a deficit (since we are talking about Deadlifts I chose to post back day). The green one is my back day last Saturday where I pulled 455 x 2 easy. If you can't read my crap handwriting just ask. For reference my formula for tracking is:
    EXCERSISE - reps@weight, the / separates the sets.

    EDIT: OK so I'm going to do a second edit to transcribe the logs since my photo post isn't working. Wait one...

    LOGS:

    8/23/18, BACK

    Lat Pull - 10@165/10@165/10@170/10@170
    Deadlifts - 5@315 (warm up) / 3@405/3@405
    Dumbell row - 10@85/10@85/10@85/10@85
    SUPERSET:
    Straight arm pull - 12@80/12@80/12@80
    Cable row - 12@180/12@180/13@180

    10/6/18 BACK

    Iso lateral high row - 10@230/10@230/11@230/10@230

    Deads - 5@315 (WU)/2@455/2@405
    DB Row - 10@100/10@100/10@100/10@100
    SUPERSET:
    Straight arm pull - 10@90/10@90/10@90
    Cable Row - 6@225/6@225/6@225

    STRONGMAN SUPERSET:
    315lbs Deadlift - 5/5/6/8
    Sledgehammer tire hits, 16lbs sledge - 30 sec/30sec/30sec/30sec

    1.  I'm seeing a 17% increase in DB row a accessory lift that could increase your deadlift.   So you did indeed add some volume and stimulas within your training.  You lowered the volume for your deadlifts. This allows you to increase the intensity. In the future if you want to compare strength changes you might find using the same reps scheme or RPE at submaximal weight more accurate.
    2.  You are incorporating deloads, one way to disapate fatigue.  This might make the weight move up, but not necessarily your true 1RM.
    3.  You workout alone without any video comformation of your form while also stating your form is and has been rock solid for years.  How would you know without a coach or vid to review?  I suggest you buy a either a $10 android stand off amazon or prop your phone up against weights or the like and taking a vid from a direct side angle and posting it back here.  I think you will get alot of useful feedback by doing so.  Which can help your training progression.
  • RealWorldStrengthLLC
    RealWorldStrengthLLC Posts: 552 Member
    edited October 2018
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    I know my firm is solid because during my time in the military, I had a lieutenant who had a degree in kinesiology - when I showed up to his unit, he corrected my form on EVERYTHING. Made me deload and start at really light weights. He's also the one who's advice started me on the no shoes squats and Deadlifts, which I still do to this day.

    How did I lower the volume of Deadlifts? I added 4 more sets at the end as a superset with sledgehammer tire hits? Wouldn't that be a 100% + increase?

    I really think the guy who had the point about my body being lighter was on to something. It's almost a 1:1 ratio for the pounds I've dropped compared to the weight I've added to DL. The same could be said for squats actually.
  • RealWorldStrengthLLC
    RealWorldStrengthLLC Posts: 552 Member
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    I am not opposed to discussing my form, I will get a video next time I train with someone
  • WillingtoLose1001984
    WillingtoLose1001984 Posts: 240 Member
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    I gain strength too and I'm a woman!
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    You gain strength via neuromuscular adaptation - increased efficiency in fiber recruitment and rate coding.

    And as several others have said, you can gain considerable strength (via the above) without gaining any appreciable size (hypertrophy).
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,565 Member
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    AnvilHead wrote: »
    You gain strength via neuromuscular adaptation - increased efficiency in fiber recruitment and rate coding.

    And as several others have said, you can gain considerable strength (via the above) without gaining any appreciable size (hypertrophy).

    QFT. I had dropped serious cycling for several years, then picked it back up in the middle of a 50 pound weight loss. I started off with the expected barely able to get up a small incline, but within 5 months of focused training was able to manage a 4 mile serious climb on a long ride.

    Since I never carried any fat in my legs it was easy to see that while the muscles were a bit more visible there was no increase in bulk. I hadn't gained any muscle, I just strengthened the muscle I already had.
  • Keto_Vampire
    Keto_Vampire Posts: 1,670 Member
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFeDghNwEBc[/youtube]

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