Intermittent Fasting!
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The dogma here is that all that matters is calories in, calories out, even though fat, carbs and proteins are metabolized differently (with different losses) when converted to energy inside the body. Every statement that goes against that dogma gets wooed. *shrug*I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).14 -
Thanks for the support @lowcarbmale
Everyone finds what works for them. Sadly some people end up thinking what works for them is best for others.
I.f. works well for me ... and I'm seeing better than expected results. If people are curious about my experiences with it they are welcome to friend or message me.7 -
lowcarbmale wrote: »
The dogma here is that all that matters is calories in, calories out, even though fat, carbs and proteins are metabolized differently (with different losses) when converted to energy inside the body. Every statement that goes against that dogma gets wooed. *shrug*I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).
CICO is not dogma - it is scientifically proven fact.14 -
No it's not. A calorie is a unit of energy. The way energy can and will be used is not always the same. You can argue for that, but it's not correct. If you don't believe me ask somebody who studied chemistry or physics.lowcarbmale wrote: »
The dogma here is that all that matters is calories in, calories out, even though fat, carbs and proteins are metabolized differently (with different losses) when converted to energy inside the body. Every statement that goes against that dogma gets wooed. *shrug*I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).
CICO is not dogma - it is scientifically proven fact.22 -
lowcarbmale wrote: »
No it's not. A calorie is a unit of energy. The way energy can and will be used is not always the same. You can argue for that, but it's not correct. Mass in mass out is a scientifically proven fact.lowcarbmale wrote: »
The dogma here is that all that matters is calories in, calories out, even though fat, carbs and proteins are metabolized differently (with different losses) when converted to energy inside the body. Every statement that goes against that dogma gets wooed. *shrug*I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).
CICO is not dogma - it is scientifically proven fact.
Just for my own clarification, are you arguing against the First Law of Thermodynamics or am I misunderstanding? To be fair it's early and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet...10 -
lowcarbmale wrote: »
No it's not. A calorie is a unit of energy. The way energy can and will be used is not always the same. You can argue for that, but it's not correct. Mass in mass out is a scientifically proven fact.lowcarbmale wrote: »
The dogma here is that all that matters is calories in, calories out, even though fat, carbs and proteins are metabolized differently (with different losses) when converted to energy inside the body. Every statement that goes against that dogma gets wooed. *shrug*I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).
CICO is not dogma - it is scientifically proven fact.
Just for my own clarification, are you arguing against the First Law of Thermodynamics or am I misunderstanding? To be fair it's early and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet...
Yes you are misunderstanding.
The First Law of Thermodynamics only applies in isolated systems, which the body is clearly not. In the CICO dogma you ignore several dynamic processes: How much CO2 you breath out, how much H20 you lose through sweat or urine, how much and what kind of waste you produce and how much energy of the food you eat can actually be accessed by the body after taking into account that it needs to be processed by the body first and there sometimes are several steps of conversion to get to the kind of energy you need in the body.
Just for fun let's assume there are three types of inputs u1,u2,u3 to a given system.
u1 represents food that is super easy to digest
u2 represents food that is easy to digest
u3 represents food that is hard to digest
Each input has the value 1=100g of food when it enters.
There is an input-function f1(u1), f2(u2), f3(u3) for each input. For simplicity, let's assume the total amount of energy your body will be able to use is sum = f1(u1) + f2(u2) +f3(u3).
To digest u1 (super easy) let's assume no energy is lost to make the energy available to the body, so 100% of the energy can be used in the body
To digest u2 (easy) let's assume 5% of energy is lost to make the energy available to the body, so 95% of the energy can be used in the body
To digest u2 (easy) let's assume 20% energy is lost to make the energy available to the body, so 80% of the energy can be used in the body.
It is clear that sum = f1(u1) + f2(u2) +f3(u3) = 1*1 + 0.95*1 + 0.8*1 is less than 3. If it gets all inputs through f1 (sum = 3*1), the result would be 3.
Now replace u1, u2, u3 with fat, protein and carbs and think about it.
Also neglected here is, that some types of food are primarly used for energy purposes ( carbs, fat), while other (protein) have other functions like muscle replacement in the body.
This would add another function f4(u3) which would deduct from the total amount of energy that can be used to "burn energy" inside the body.. so you would receive sum = f1(u1) + f2(u2) +f3(u3) - f4(u4)15 -
lowcarbmale wrote: »
No it's not. A calorie is a unit of energy. The way energy can and will be used is not always the same. You can argue for that, but it's not correct. If you don't believe me ask somebody who studied chemistry or physics.lowcarbmale wrote: »
The dogma here is that all that matters is calories in, calories out, even though fat, carbs and proteins are metabolized differently (with different losses) when converted to energy inside the body. Every statement that goes against that dogma gets wooed. *shrug*I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).
CICO is not dogma - it is scientifically proven fact.
It doesn't matter how the energy is used - whether to power digestion, physical activity, inner cell processes, etc - it is still used and has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is food and drink and ALL of those processes are accounted for in CICO. If you have some proof that it is wrong, please present it here and then fill out your application for the Nobel prize for disproving the laws of thermodynamics.9 -
lowcarbmale wrote: »lowcarbmale wrote: »
No it's not. A calorie is a unit of energy. The way energy can and will be used is not always the same. You can argue for that, but it's not correct. Mass in mass out is a scientifically proven fact.lowcarbmale wrote: »
The dogma here is that all that matters is calories in, calories out, even though fat, carbs and proteins are metabolized differently (with different losses) when converted to energy inside the body. Every statement that goes against that dogma gets wooed. *shrug*I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).
CICO is not dogma - it is scientifically proven fact.
Just for my own clarification, are you arguing against the First Law of Thermodynamics or am I misunderstanding? To be fair it's early and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet...
Yes you are misunderstanding.
The First Law of Thermodynamics only applies in isolated systems, which the body is clearly not. In the CICO dogma you ignore several dynamic processes: How much CO2 you breath out, how much H20 you lose through sweat or urine, how much and what kind of waste you produce and how much energy of the food you eat can actually be accessed by the body after taking into account that it needs to be processed by the body first and there sometimes are several steps of conversion to get to the kind of energy you need in the body.
Just for fun let's assume there are three types of inputs u1,u2,u3 to a given system.
u1 represents food that is super easy to digest
u2 represents food that is easy to digest
u3 represents food that is hard to digest
Each input has the value 1=100g of food when it enters.
There is an input-function f1(u1), f2(u2), f3(u3) for each input. For simplicity, let's assume the total amount of energy your body will be able to use is sum = f1(u1) + f2(u2) +f3(u3).
To digest u1 (super easy) let's assume no energy is lost to make the energy available to the body, so 100% of the energy can be used in the body
To digest u2 (easy) let's assume 5% of energy is lost to make the energy available to the body, so 95% of the energy can be used in the body
To digest u2 (easy) let's assume 20% energy is lost to make the energy available to the body, so 80% of the energy can be used in the body.
It is clear that sum = f1(u1) + f2(u2) +f3(u3) = 1*1 + 0.95*1 + 0.8*1 is less than 3. If it gets all inputs through f1 (sum = 3*1), the result would be 3.
Now replace u1, u2, u3 with fat, protein and carbs and think about it.
Also neglected here is, that some types of food are primarly used for energy purposes ( carbs, fat), while other (protein) have other functions like muscle replacement in the body.
This would add another function f4(u3) which would deduct from the total amount of energy that can be used to "burn energy" inside the body.. so you would receive sum = f1(u1) + f2(u2) +f3(u3) - f4(u4)
I believe TEF is factored into most calorie calculations and has been shown to make a very small difference in overall energy expenditure. But I don't see how that has anything to do with IF, so I'll leave it at that.
If you'd like to debate the "dogma" of CICO, there are several threads in the Debate forum you could bump.16 -
I believe CICO is dogma ... but "calories burned" is quite complicated.
Around 85% of calories we burn are from digestion and homeostasis. A fever burns more calories than jogging.
Humans are VERY efficient at things like walking. More walking makes a teeny tiny difference in calories burned.
Gut microbes and microbiome in general greatly affect our absorption of calories consumed too.
"Metabolism" is a varied and complicated process and changes as a result of hormonal changes ...
... which is why I like i.f. is promotes the hormones which improve metabolic rates.
In this area ... we can both be right.14 -
I encourage others to read this great healthline article explaining why fasting does burn more fat than 5-6 meals a day, even for the same net daily caloric intake:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-and-weight-loss#section1
Some hormonal changes are highlighted as follows:
Insulin: Insulin increases when we eat. When we fast, insulin decreases dramatically (4). Lower levels of insulin facilitate fat burning.
Human growth hormone (HGH): Levels of growth hormone may skyrocket during a fast, increasing as much as 5-fold (5, 6). Growth hormone is a hormone that can aid fat loss and muscle gain, among other things (7, 8, 9).
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline): The nervous system sends norepinephrine to the fat cells, making them break down body fat into free fatty acids that can be burned for energy (10, 11).
Interestingly, despite what the 5-6 meals a day proponents would have you believe, short-term fasting may actually increase fat burning.
Two studies have found that fasting for about 48 hours boosts metabolism by 3.6-14% (12, 13). However, fasting periods that are longer can suppress metabolism (14).
The article doesn't explain how IF burns more fat, it theorizes that it might.
There are some interesting theories out there about IF and if you'd like to do IF in the hope that some of these theories pan out, I totally get that. But there is simply not enough data that is consistent over multiple studies to say it has definite advantages outside of appetite control. That's all anyone is saying. We just want folks to stop stating things as facts when they are actually theoretical.
FYI, Healthline is an article farm, and the author of that article has a Bachelor's in medicine and "has spent years reading books, blogs and scientific studies on nutrition". I've seen many Healthline articles linked here over the years, and have been disappointed by how little the studies cited in those articles has actually supported the article's point on a regular basis.9 -
Back to the original subject... which I hope my first post was clear but perhaps was not... so to expound:
Personally i do IF because once dinner comes around ... I can't really eat more than 700 calories without feeling stuffed.
I've never been a breakfast guy ... being hungry leading into lunch is annoying but I get by.
It works for me. My body, my personality ... and if others want to try it and discuss anyone is free to friend and/or message me.
... I kind of get into the hunger feelings ... it's a mental game for me. ...its gotten ti the point I'm concerned I'm losing TOO fast.5 -
Back to the original subject... which I hope my first post was clear but perhaps was not... so to expound:
Personally i do IF because once dinner comes around ... I can't really eat more than 700 calories without feeling stuffed.
I've never been a breakfast guy ... being hungry leading into lunch is annoying but I get by.
It works for me. My body, my personality ... and if others want to try it and discuss anyone is free to friend and/or message me.
... I kind of get into the hunger feelings ... it's a mental game for me. ...its gotten ti the point I'm concerned I'm losing TOO fast.
Your intake is 700 calories a day? Not a good idea. Eating at lunchtime will add some calories to your day.6 -
No no that's just how much it takes to feel "full" for me. I eat about 1300 to 1600 a day ... 2 meals and a snack/protein shake
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I tend to eat at 2 or 3 and again 7 p.m. ... I dont time it i just play every day by ear0
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I basically do 16:8 IF by skipping breakfast. I then eat lunch, have a snack usually a couple pieces of fruit, and then dinner. I just drink some black coffee to get me through the fast which usually isn't a problem. I workout fasted usually. I don't like doing cardio on a full belly.0
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I credit i.f. for making it easy to eat 1300 cals in a day.1 -
I credit i.f. for making it easy to eat 1300 cals in a day.
I don't think that's necessarily a good thing either.......6 -
I credit i.f. for making it easy to eat 1300 cals in a day.
That's not really something to be proud of.... in your other thread you asked and were told about the health risks of losing weight too rapidly. You shouldn't be looking for easy ways to under eat. As a wise rabbit used to say, "the winner is the one who eats the most and still loses the weight..."10 -
I credit i.f. for making it easy to eat 1300 cals in a day.
I don't think that's necessarily a good thing either.......
cosigned...4
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