Anybody had to totally give up deadlifts and squats?
CeeBeeSlim
Posts: 1,356 Member
Hi. This is essentially what my doc told me today given issues with my lower back and hip (herniated disc, pinched nerve, hip impingement). When he saw the crushed look on my face, he reinforced through animated pics what the movements were doing to my back and hip, and it then made sense to him why I haven’t gotten rid of my pain. I was crushed since I’ve been working with a personal trainer, losing inches, and getting so much stronger. I then asked if they were still bad if my form was correct. I could tell he wanted me to stop but just said continue to exercise but either go lighter or find something else to do. Anyone have any experience or thoughts? I finally was in my zone and excited to reach my goals by end of year. I’m a relative newbie to lifting but almost everything I’ve read put so much value on deadlifts and squats. Is doc being too strict?
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Replies
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I have a pinched nerve in my arm and had to give up any barbell movements and and other exercise that involved my arm. It is absolutely devastating.
I don't think they are being to strict. If your lifting and still having pain there is a problem there. I would hold off on workouts, can you see a PT?1 -
^ She's right. If you don't like what you are being told, go get a second opinion.
If that one is the same, I assume there will still be other forms of exercise you can do. You just have to find one.
Good luck!1 -
@Fflpnari Thank you. I’ve seen a p/t in the doc’s own practice. He told me he doesn’t ever tell folks not to do something unless it’s clearly exacerbating an issue. The doc was more definitive to those two specific movements. Because I never felt pain at all in the moment doing deadlifts and squats, i told him I was fine with those. The doc explained sometimes I won’t feel it in the moment, it’s afterwards when I’d feel the pain. How long did you have to stop using anything that involved your arm? That’s tough!!0
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What causes you pain or makes it worse? Is your pain worse on days you workout?
Its been over a year now since I hurt it. Originally my healthcare team didn't know it was pinched. I kept lifting just much less than normal and it never got any better. They did nerve testing and found the problem. Now I am waiting to see ortho about having surgery.0 -
Yes -- I stopped doing them because I did not like the increased glute/booty that was coming from them. I liked my pancake *kitten*, damnit.
You don't have to do squads and deadlifts to be a lifter. You can work out your arms, pecs, and chest instead. Works nicely for functional strength, too.
Focus on upper body and core work instead. It's still lifting, but it's not going to hurt you.7 -
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Of course it's hard to give up a favorite exercise. But you don't have to give up your goals. You can still get stronger and lose inches. Perhaps ask for referral to physical therapist who can give you exercises that are safe for your condition and allow you to meet your goals if your trainer can't do this.2
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I would get a second opinion. Pain is a very tricky subject and just because you experience perceived pain doesn't mean it the movements the lifts is the cause at all.
What were these animated pics?
Most doctors unfortunately don't know the benefits of strength training. Hearing hip impingement for a reason not to deadlift or squat raises a few questions I would want opinion of another doctor preferably one that understands barbell training.
Being new to lifting and perhaps poor load management by your PT could very well be the problem, who knows.
Curiously, what does your PT have you doing rep/set/weight?
I wish your well.
*Edit to add*
Yes I had a doctor tell me upon diagnosing me a autoimmune disease that progressively attacks my joints to stop deadlifting and squatting. He said it would ruin my skeletal system.
It took less than 6 months for me to need a cane or wheelchair every day. He tried prescribing drugs to slow the disease which didn't help much.
Once I was in a wheelchair I started to lift again. Figuring what do I have to lose at that point.
Eight years later, I'm off the meds. Walk fine. Even broke many state powerlifting USAPL records for my age group including squats and deadlifts.
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^ I agree. This will get woo'd out of the park. But sorry doctors are mostly drug dealing quacks pushing pain pills and most of them have zero knowledge of the real pros and cons of weight lifting and exercise. Some things you can try to help your lower back pain, and hip pain that have helped me fight thru the aches. Hang from a pull up bar let your spine decompress, then do some leg raises if you can. Mostly just let your weight do the work. Light core work - keep your lower back tight to the floor slightly raise you chest and do some leg lifts or circles, spell your name forward and backward with your feet, while keeping the small of the back tight to the floor. Seriously! Hip bridges a lot of different varieties to try to open your hips. Lastly do vinyasa yoga flows with some warrior and triangle pose to get your hips moving. But also take videos of your weight lifting and compare to or ask pro's online.
PS your doing good by coming here and asking and not just taking no for answer. A lot of people simply just look for an excuse to not do it. If you are making progress, but its causing you pain. It could be form, it could be that you routine is over loading too much in one direction or another. Keep asking questions and provide more details about your routine you'll get better answers.4 -
@Chieflrg Thank you. The doc had an animated detailed pic of a spine with discs, nerves, etc and was able to show what my body is doing as I am doing a deadlift or a squat. The pressure as I go down and forward he showed would be pressing on the nerve. Just strange I thought that I don’t feel that in the moment - otherwise I’d stop.
I’ve been working with the PT for about 7 weeks now, so I’ve gone from bodyweight to about 65 lbs back squat.
And 40 in the beginning to about 105 lbs deadlift. 3-4 sets. The first is usually a warm up set. 10-12 reps. Sometimes in a exercise like a deadlift the first set is 95, then 100, then 105.
I’m 5’3 and 54. About 135 trying to get to 125, just FYI.0 -
Please go visit BarbellMedicine.com and read Austin Baracki on pain... before you decide to give up these awesome barbell movements.1
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@awnurmarc Thanks! Will check it out. While researching I came across this:
https://cstrainingsystems.com/stop-deadlifting-stop-squatting/0 -
Did the doctor diagnose something wrong with your spine that is different from the average spine that causes a problem with a normal human movement? It would be interesting to see how his model moves the spine when deadlifting or squatting vs. the rest of the population.CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@Chieflrg Thank you. The doc had an animated detailed pic of a spine with discs, nerves, etc and was able to show what my body is doing as I am doing a deadlift or a squat. The pressure as I go down and forward he showed would be pressing on the nerve. Just strange I thought that I don’t feel that in the moment - otherwise I’d stop.
I’ve been working with the PT for about 7 weeks now, so I’ve gone from bodyweight to about 65 lbs back squat.
And 40 in the beginning to about 105 lbs deadlift. 3-4 sets. The first is usually a warm up set. 10-12 reps. Sometimes in a exercise like a deadlift the first set is 95, then 100, then 105.
I’m 5’3 and 54. About 135 trying to get to 125, just FYI.
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CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@Chieflrg Thank you. The doc had an animated detailed pic of a spine with discs, nerves, etc and was able to show what my body is doing as I am doing a deadlift or a squat. The pressure as I go down and forward he showed would be pressing on the nerve. Just strange I thought that I don’t feel that in the moment - otherwise I’d stop.
I’ve been working with the PT for about 7 weeks now, so I’ve gone from bodyweight to about 65 lbs back squat.
And 40 in the beginning to about 105 lbs deadlift. 3-4 sets. The first is usually a warm up set. 10-12 reps. Sometimes in a exercise like a deadlift the first set is 95, then 100, then 105.
I’m 5’3 and 54. About 135 trying to get to 125, just FYI.
I see. Seems very odd for a doctor to tell you to stop doing movements we do every day in the gym or every day life. That might create more of a problem long term. Just odd, though maybe there is some missing info here. Doctor telling you to lower the weight might be appropriate, though how much lower? Perhaps less frequent or less volume of either reps or sets would be more appropriate instead with the info we have here. There are several components to different types of load management he isn't addressing. Once again he has more information and knowledge of you.
Is this pain you had before or just started recently?
Are you experiencing pain during or sometime after training or both?
Has the PT changed your stance or your range if motion at any time in reference to the pain or otherwise?
How frequent are you deadlifting and squatting?
In the seven weeks of training, how did you progress to 3-4 sets of 10-12 from body weight to loaded dosage. The more detailed with estimated reps left in the tank with weight on barbell in the past seven weeks would be more helpful.
Also I second Barbellmedicine. Baraki, Feigenbaum, and the doctors they added recently who specialize with pain have helped me personally with the info they put out. You might even swim I to the forum there and ask for help with detailed info.
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I'd also get more opinions... and I want to be sure about whether it was the lifting (the actual movement) that was causing the problems or the inflammation/tightness that often sets in after training.1
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That's a bummer but I'm sure there are other exercises you do that you will like as well. I agree with asking for a referral to a physical therapist.0
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Have you tried going to a chiropractor? I would also find it devastating not being able to squat or deadlift anymore.5
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@Chieflrg Thank you. Hmm. I’ll try to answer. Doc didn’t give me details on how to reduce training. He first said that I should take time off. When that was met with “sad face”, he said to stop the deadlifting and squats. Then just generally said I didn’t need to go “all out”, but I think he was responding to me being disappointed he was telling me to stop my fav movements.
I had the pain for about 1.5 years. Started as the usual, hmmm - I must’ve worked too hard - I’ll soak, foam roll, yoga, stretch more, pills, massage etc, until I realized I wasn’t getting very far and saw a doc.
If I recall correctly, my trainer will usually add more weight (maybe 5-10 lbs) each time we have a session (2x week). We dont deadlift each time and the squats vary - some with trx, goblet, barbell back. Sometimes he’ll keep that weight for the three sets of about 10 reps. Sometimes within the session, he’ll increase the weight 5-10lbs after each set. By the time I’m finished the set, I’m spent - hard maybe to finish the last one or two. And I never ever feel pain with any squat or deadlift - not even a twinge. And my trainer is aware of my hip, back issues and great to tell me when my form is off - even with shoulders, breathing, etc.
As I was writing this, i realized one movement that could be a cause?? Anyone has issues with kettlebell swings? There’s this one move where my trainer has me swing the bell across my body, bring (with like a torque) the bell up to my shoulder and then press it up (like a clean and press). Doesn’t hurt in the movement, but maybe it’s the twisting?0 -
Your doctor does not know what he's talking about. I don't necessarily mean his diagnosis. I mean his advice. He doesn't know which movement are causing you problems (assuming that's the case) or what the risk really is. Notice how his advice changed. He really meant "be careful out there" but didn't think that sounded like professional enough. You may indeed cause yourself injury in the gym and you may do it by sneezing. The only thing we can be sure of is that stronger people are harder to injure. So staying weak is problematic too.
I'm just a guy who lifts and who has been inducted to the barbell cult, so take this for what is is (or isn't) worth: I would get rid of weight bearing conditioning work before slower heavy lifting. So if you want to eliminate something, I'd dump kettlebells before deadlifts. Another thing you might do is settle on one form of squat so you have one movement pattern to perfect and see how your hips handle it.
But again, please visit BarbellMedicine.com and search the site. They've helped people (with free advice) in a similar situation.2 -
Yes I had a doctor tell me upon diagnosing me a autoimmune disease that progressively attacks my joints to stop deadlifting and squatting. He said it would ruin my skeletal system.
It took less than 6 months for me to need a cane or wheelchair every day. He tried prescribing drugs to slow the disease which didn't help much.
Once I was in a wheelchair I started to lift again. Figuring what do I have to lose at that point.
Eight years later, I'm off the meds. Walk fine. Even broke many state powerlifting USAPL records for my age group including squats and deadlifts.
I love this. Three years ago and some change I had an ischemic stroke and basically couldn't move my right side. A significant amount of control came back in rehab so that, when I was sent home I was walking with a cane.
It will be 3 years ago of December 3rd that I left my cane at home and limped to my gym, hoping no one would notice. Though my gait was bad I was able (with effort) to put both feet in position to squat and press the bar and deadlift 65 pounds. I came back two days later and squatted 50 lbs, bench pressed the bar, and deadlifted 70 lbs...
Some weeks later I found my cane in a corner of a room and couldn't remember when I had last used it.
The week before this Thanksgiving I deadlifted 385. A couple days later I deadlifted 375 for a triple and felt like I had another rep in me. At 50 I am stronger than I have ever been in my life.
Getting stronger is amazing medicine. Doctors and physical therapists have no idea.
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You can do all kinds of leg machines that work just as well for the quads, hamstrings and inner/outer thighs. If you enjoy doing DL and Squats do them if you feel it's not causing you pain. I wouldnt let the doctor scare me of what could happen in the future if u keep doing them.0
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@awnurmarc I think that’s exactly what happened. He did mean “be careful”. Thank you for the advice. I never thought I’d be one to miss deadlifts let alone having deadlift in my vocabulary. I’m no spring chick!
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@jjpptt2 interesting. Is the inflammation you mention the usual muscle soreness or something else? I do feel sore afterwards, but this feels like pain.0
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CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@jjpptt2 interesting. Is the inflammation you mention the usual muscle soreness or something else? I do feel sore afterwards, but this feels like pain.
Impossible to know through the internet. Could be either, neither, or both.0 -
@shor0814 @Chieflrg Hi. I’m attaching a link to something that was close to what the doc showed me. Starting around 3:02 is the deadlift and squat discussion. This isn’t it exactly but close. But note, my form is NOT whatever she is demonstrating. Not even close! @chieflrg Thanks for sharing your inspiring experience. Sooo cool!
https://youtu.be/83NGwB-jiZE 0 -
I shouldn't chime in. But since we are slamming doctors ... hard to resist.
Doctors see sick people. They study illness and injury. So, they see two people who squat and have some discomfort and they jump to the conclusion that this squatting thing must be horrible!
But, they don't see all the people who squat and are healthier because of it. Then they often fail to acknowledge that it is better to be active than to be sedentary.
DRIVES me absolutely crazy!
I don't know how many times I have heard someone say, for instance: "Yeah, my orthopedist told me that no one over 50 should run because it is too hard on the knees. He says he sees it in his office all the time."
Well, duh. No Runner goes to the doctor to get a consult because their knees are fine.
They only see problems.
But I see the well runners, some of them quite old, jogging around the park every day and, I can tell you, they look a whole lot healthier and stronger than the sedentary, overweight guy.
I am not saying that is the case with the OP here. He should seek some expert advice. But seek it from a trainer, or a physical therapist whose goal is to keep people moving....6 -
Just for context..
There are also a lot of very competant doctors out there, who know what they know, know it, and know when to refer patients to other specialists. I bet there are more people going to the wrong doctor than there are doctors who don't give a *kitten* or who just want to write scripts and take advantage of insurance.5 -
Just for context..
There are also a lot of very competant doctors out there, who know what they know, know it, and know when to refer patients to other specialists. I bet there are more people going to the wrong doctor than there are doctors who don't give a *kitten* or who just want to write scripts and take advantage of insurance.
Agreed.0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@shor0814 @Chieflrg Hi. I’m attaching a link to something that was close to what the doc showed me. Starting around 3:02 is the deadlift and squat discussion. This isn’t it exactly but close. But note, my form is NOT whatever she is demonstrating. Not even close! @chieflrg Thanks for sharing your inspiring experience. Sooo cool!https://youtu.be/83NGwB-jiZE
Did he actually diagnose a bulged disc through imaging or was it just his assumption on what was happening? Either way, I would get a second opinion from a doctor that is a bit more aware of fitness related injuries. Sports doctor or something similar.
As far as your training plan, I am not a fan of what seems to be a random program of adding weight and "high" reps to fatigue. Just going by what you describe as your program you may be getting to near exhaustion on your deadlift and getting some back rounding without realizing it. We do funny things at exhaustion and your trainer may not be seeing it.
If it was me in this situation I would drop everything for a bit to see how my back responds then start by trying one exercise for a couple of weeks, evaluate my back and then switch exercises to find out which one is the culprit since you are not feeling it in the moment. If you find the culprit I would take a lot of video and get feedback on what is going on.
If I got everything straightened out I would find a know, well structured, and proven plan and stick to it.2
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