Anybody had to totally give up deadlifts and squats?
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Yes I had a doctor tell me upon diagnosing me a autoimmune disease that progressively attacks my joints to stop deadlifting and squatting. He said it would ruin my skeletal system.
It took less than 6 months for me to need a cane or wheelchair every day. He tried prescribing drugs to slow the disease which didn't help much.
Once I was in a wheelchair I started to lift again. Figuring what do I have to lose at that point.
Eight years later, I'm off the meds. Walk fine. Even broke many state powerlifting USAPL records for my age group including squats and deadlifts.
I love this. Three years ago and some change I had an ischemic stroke and basically couldn't move my right side. A significant amount of control came back in rehab so that, when I was sent home I was walking with a cane.
It will be 3 years ago of December 3rd that I left my cane at home and limped to my gym, hoping no one would notice. Though my gait was bad I was able (with effort) to put both feet in position to squat and press the bar and deadlift 65 pounds. I came back two days later and squatted 50 lbs, bench pressed the bar, and deadlifted 70 lbs...
Some weeks later I found my cane in a corner of a room and couldn't remember when I had last used it.
The week before this Thanksgiving I deadlifted 385. A couple days later I deadlifted 375 for a triple and felt like I had another rep in me. At 50 I am stronger than I have ever been in my life.
Getting stronger is amazing medicine. Doctors and physical therapists have no idea.
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You can do all kinds of leg machines that work just as well for the quads, hamstrings and inner/outer thighs. If you enjoy doing DL and Squats do them if you feel it's not causing you pain. I wouldnt let the doctor scare me of what could happen in the future if u keep doing them.0
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@awnurmarc I think that’s exactly what happened. He did mean “be careful”. Thank you for the advice. I never thought I’d be one to miss deadlifts let alone having deadlift in my vocabulary. I’m no spring chick!
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@jjpptt2 interesting. Is the inflammation you mention the usual muscle soreness or something else? I do feel sore afterwards, but this feels like pain.0
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CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@jjpptt2 interesting. Is the inflammation you mention the usual muscle soreness or something else? I do feel sore afterwards, but this feels like pain.
Impossible to know through the internet. Could be either, neither, or both.0 -
@shor0814 @Chieflrg Hi. I’m attaching a link to something that was close to what the doc showed me. Starting around 3:02 is the deadlift and squat discussion. This isn’t it exactly but close. But note, my form is NOT whatever she is demonstrating. Not even close! @chieflrg Thanks for sharing your inspiring experience. Sooo cool!
https://youtu.be/83NGwB-jiZE 0 -
I shouldn't chime in. But since we are slamming doctors ... hard to resist.
Doctors see sick people. They study illness and injury. So, they see two people who squat and have some discomfort and they jump to the conclusion that this squatting thing must be horrible!
But, they don't see all the people who squat and are healthier because of it. Then they often fail to acknowledge that it is better to be active than to be sedentary.
DRIVES me absolutely crazy!
I don't know how many times I have heard someone say, for instance: "Yeah, my orthopedist told me that no one over 50 should run because it is too hard on the knees. He says he sees it in his office all the time."
Well, duh. No Runner goes to the doctor to get a consult because their knees are fine.
They only see problems.
But I see the well runners, some of them quite old, jogging around the park every day and, I can tell you, they look a whole lot healthier and stronger than the sedentary, overweight guy.
I am not saying that is the case with the OP here. He should seek some expert advice. But seek it from a trainer, or a physical therapist whose goal is to keep people moving....6 -
Just for context..
There are also a lot of very competant doctors out there, who know what they know, know it, and know when to refer patients to other specialists. I bet there are more people going to the wrong doctor than there are doctors who don't give a *kitten* or who just want to write scripts and take advantage of insurance.5 -
Just for context..
There are also a lot of very competant doctors out there, who know what they know, know it, and know when to refer patients to other specialists. I bet there are more people going to the wrong doctor than there are doctors who don't give a *kitten* or who just want to write scripts and take advantage of insurance.
Agreed.0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@shor0814 @Chieflrg Hi. I’m attaching a link to something that was close to what the doc showed me. Starting around 3:02 is the deadlift and squat discussion. This isn’t it exactly but close. But note, my form is NOT whatever she is demonstrating. Not even close! @chieflrg Thanks for sharing your inspiring experience. Sooo cool!https://youtu.be/83NGwB-jiZE
Did he actually diagnose a bulged disc through imaging or was it just his assumption on what was happening? Either way, I would get a second opinion from a doctor that is a bit more aware of fitness related injuries. Sports doctor or something similar.
As far as your training plan, I am not a fan of what seems to be a random program of adding weight and "high" reps to fatigue. Just going by what you describe as your program you may be getting to near exhaustion on your deadlift and getting some back rounding without realizing it. We do funny things at exhaustion and your trainer may not be seeing it.
If it was me in this situation I would drop everything for a bit to see how my back responds then start by trying one exercise for a couple of weeks, evaluate my back and then switch exercises to find out which one is the culprit since you are not feeling it in the moment. If you find the culprit I would take a lot of video and get feedback on what is going on.
If I got everything straightened out I would find a know, well structured, and proven plan and stick to it.2 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@Chieflrg Thank you. Hmm. I’ll try to answer. Doc didn’t give me details on how to reduce training. He first said that I should take time off. When that was met with “sad face”, he said to stop the deadlifting and squats. Then just generally said I didn’t need to go “all out”, but I think he was responding to me being disappointed he was telling me to stop my fav movements.
I had the pain for about 1.5 years. Started as the usual, hmmm - I must’ve worked too hard - I’ll soak, foam roll, yoga, stretch more, pills, massage etc, until I realized I wasn’t getting very far and saw a doc.
If I recall correctly, my trainer will usually add more weight (maybe 5-10 lbs) each time we have a session (2x week). We dont deadlift each time and the squats vary - some with trx, goblet, barbell back. Sometimes he’ll keep that weight for the three sets of about 10 reps. Sometimes within the session, he’ll increase the weight 5-10lbs after each set. By the time I’m finished the set, I’m spent - hard maybe to finish the last one or two. And I never ever feel pain with any squat or deadlift - not even a twinge. And my trainer is aware of my hip, back issues and great to tell me when my form is off - even with shoulders, breathing, etc.
As I was writing this, i realized one movement that could be a cause?? Anyone has issues with kettlebell swings? There’s this one move where my trainer has me swing the bell across my body, bring (with like a torque) the bell up to my shoulder and then press it up (like a clean and press). Doesn’t hurt in the movement, but maybe it’s the twisting?
I agree with "not going all out", but certainly challenging is appropriate.
If your trainer is adding 5-10lbs per session, at your body weight that is more than likely inappropriate and poor load management for the average responder to training. For somebody who is currently limitsed to150lbs or less regardless of rep scheme, a 5lb increment may be too much to recover from not alone 10lbs if you are having problems completing the las two reps. One should be able to walk away with two or three in the tank in most cases with a rigid spine.
Topping off your dosage of useful stress with Kettle ball swings could be part of the culprit, but I would look into load management all around first, not just a particular movement.
When you complete a workout, how do rate your session?
10 being the hardest grindy workout ever
9 being got through it but was rather tough
8 challenging but feeling good
7 a bitveasy,v wanting more
Also want to clarify I'm going strictly by the info you give us. I'm not bashing your PT.2 -
Doctor told me I would never squat again after I hurt my back, not true. Find a good Sports Medicine doctor if you can.0
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@Chieflrg Hmmm. I would say at least a 9. I can’t say I have anything left in the tank when I get to the end of a FINAL set of an exercise.
So for example, if I do exercise x at 10 lbs at 10-12 reps and I’m challenged but can complete it, the next set may be the same lbs and reps, but that final set is when he may jump 5 or 10 lbs, have me do less reps, but I can barely finish - in fact he’s helping me finish.
His hand may be on the lat pulldown bar, leg curls, ab crunches bars - actually helping me with the last 3-5 reps. Not spotting but actually helping me.
He never says “ok, let’s stop at 8 then .” He’ll help me til we get to 10, 12, 15 whatever - like it’s more important to get the pre-established number of reps than just saying what I’m thinking which is. “Ok. you did your best on your own, even if it was 8, no need to get to 16.”
I thought it may be a psychological thing trainers do to pump one up?!
Hope that makes sense.0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@Chieflrg Hmmm. I would say at least a 9. I can’t say I have anything left in the tank when I get to the end of a FINAL set of an exercise.
So for example, if I do exercise x at 10 lbs at 10-12 reps and I’m challenged but can complete it, the next set may be the same lbs and reps, but that final set is when he may jump 5 or 10 lbs, have me do less reps, but I can barely finish - in fact he’s helping me finish.
His hand may be on the lat pulldown bar, leg curls, ab crunches bars - actually helping me with the last 3-5 reps. Not spotting but actually helping me.
He never says “ok, let’s stop at 8 then .” He’ll help me til we get to 10, 12, 15 whatever - like it’s more important to get the pre-established number of reps than just saying what I’m thinking which is. “Ok. you did your best on your own, even if it was 8, no need to get to 16.”
I thought it may be a psychological thing trainers do to pump one up?!
Hope that makes sense.
I would ask him to stop that. The focus should be on good quality reps; controlled on the way down and strong on the way up. If he's doing upright rows to help you, then he's not really helping you. Unless you're focusing on eccentric lifting, a spotter helping that much isn't productive.0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@Chieflrg Hmmm. I would say at least a 9. I can’t say I have anything left in the tank when I get to the end of a FINAL set of an exercise.
So for example, if I do exercise x at 10 lbs at 10-12 reps and I’m challenged but can complete it, the next set may be the same lbs and reps, but that final set is when he may jump 5 or 10 lbs, have me do less reps, but I can barely finish - in fact he’s helping me finish.
His hand may be on the lat pulldown bar, leg curls, ab crunches bars - actually helping me with the last 3-5 reps. Not spotting but actually helping me.
He never says “ok, let’s stop at 8 then .” He’ll help me til we get to 10, 12, 15 whatever - like it’s more important to get the pre-established number of reps than just saying what I’m thinking which is. “Ok. you did your best on your own, even if it was 8, no need to get to 16.”
I thought it may be a psychological thing trainers do to pump one up?!
Hope that makes sense.
If you are doing 9's routinely, that is absolute poor internal load management. It's beating the body up with insufficient recovery. It is not thinking long term. We are not robots and can repeatedly do things near or at failure and not expect to eventually break.
Sounds like a comercial gym PT that tries to tire out a person so the person thinks they did something.
Volume should be challenging, but you shouldn't walk away thinking you can't walk away. I repeat, volume doesn't necessarily have to be hard and tiring to be useful for progress.5 -
Is anyone going to talk about how bad that animated lady's deadlift form is? No wonder her back hurts.0
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Just for context..
There are also a lot of very competant doctors out there, who know what they know, know it, and know when to refer patients to other specialists. I bet there are more people going to the wrong doctor than there are doctors who don't give a *kitten* or who just want to write scripts and take advantage of insurance.
This is very true. Unfortunately in this country very few people can afford the right doctors, and some of us are very lucky to have insurance that will get us thru emergencies, but to get the kind of real advice necessary for fitness that is out there for real legit. Most regular folk can't afford that. Unless you have pro sponsors and even then you may not get real support. Which is why I say online research is our only recourse, but good luck sorting thru all the garbage. The barbell medicine guys are pretty great, but they are talking to gen pop scenario of body builders, which is better than nothing. Generally speaking there are very few people on this earth who can afford sports medicine doctors to review their individual case.0 -
Get another opinion from someone in sports medicine. You are not lifting super heavy, just similar to real life movements. Plenty of powerlifters have comeback from back problems. Every time I've had any kind of an injury the doctor has told me just to switch hobbies and I think that's a really low lying fruit way to go about life. I've always come back even stronger.1
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If it doesn't hurt to squat or deadlift I would keep doing it. Perhaps after rehabbing disc. Have to listen to your body for answers. IMHO many doctors are overly conservative in their activity recommendations. I had a Dr in H. S. Tell me I could never overhead press again bc of bulging disc. Found another dr rehabbed disc and went on to press 225 pounds overhead a few years later. I'd think you could modify volume and intensity. To keep squat d/l to actually help yourback stay healthy.
I'd find a doc with sports medicine background and tell him your goals.0 -
I'd definitely get a second opinion. I know everyone's body is different, but I can tell you when I had a major accident 6 years ago, my spine curved the wrong way, my muscles spasmed, and my hips rotated out of alignment. The doctor told me to remain on a couch, take muscle relaxers, and hope I don't get arthritis. He said running and weight lifting were going to make it worse, and maybe eventually I'd walk without limping. I ditched him and got a trainer and a PT. I strengthened all the muscles around my injury, stretched a lot, and eventually added significant weight to my squats and deadlifts. Within months, I ran my first 10K race and lost 4 pants sizes. It was a long and painful journey and something that still comes back to haunt me if I'm not careful, but lifting weights saved my quality of life. You know your own body and what makes it hurt vs. what makes it feel better. Find a doc who is also an athlete. They don't like to be sidelined with injuries either and are more likely to help you get back to crushing your goals.2
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