Anybody had to totally give up deadlifts and squats?

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Replies

  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    edited November 2018
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    @Chieflrg Thank you. Hmm. I’ll try to answer. Doc didn’t give me details on how to reduce training. He first said that I should take time off. When that was met with “sad face”, he said to stop the deadlifting and squats. Then just generally said I didn’t need to go “all out”, but I think he was responding to me being disappointed he was telling me to stop my fav movements.

    I had the pain for about 1.5 years. Started as the usual, hmmm - I must’ve worked too hard - I’ll soak, foam roll, yoga, stretch more, pills, massage etc, until I realized I wasn’t getting very far and saw a doc.

    If I recall correctly, my trainer will usually add more weight (maybe 5-10 lbs) each time we have a session (2x week). We dont deadlift each time and the squats vary - some with trx, goblet, barbell back. Sometimes he’ll keep that weight for the three sets of about 10 reps. Sometimes within the session, he’ll increase the weight 5-10lbs after each set. By the time I’m finished the set, I’m spent - hard maybe to finish the last one or two. And I never ever feel pain with any squat or deadlift - not even a twinge. And my trainer is aware of my hip, back issues and great to tell me when my form is off - even with shoulders, breathing, etc.

    As I was writing this, i realized one movement that could be a cause?? Anyone has issues with kettlebell swings? There’s this one move where my trainer has me swing the bell across my body, bring (with like a torque) the bell up to my shoulder and then press it up (like a clean and press). Doesn’t hurt in the movement, but maybe it’s the twisting?

    I agree with "not going all out", but certainly challenging is appropriate.

    If your trainer is adding 5-10lbs per session, at your body weight that is more than likely inappropriate and poor load management for the average responder to training. For somebody who is currently limitsed to150lbs or less regardless of rep scheme, a 5lb increment may be too much to recover from not alone 10lbs if you are having problems completing the las two reps. One should be able to walk away with two or three in the tank in most cases with a rigid spine.

    Topping off your dosage of useful stress with Kettle ball swings could be part of the culprit, but I would look into load management all around first, not just a particular movement.

    When you complete a workout, how do rate your session?
    10 being the hardest grindy workout ever
    9 being got through it but was rather tough
    8 challenging but feeling good
    7 a bitveasy,v wanting more

    Also want to clarify I'm going strictly by the info you give us. I'm not bashing your PT.
  • JAYxMSxPES
    JAYxMSxPES Posts: 193 Member
    Doctor told me I would never squat again after I hurt my back, not true. Find a good Sports Medicine doctor if you can.
  • CeeBeeSlim
    CeeBeeSlim Posts: 1,348 Member
    @Chieflrg Hmmm. I would say at least a 9. I can’t say I have anything left in the tank when I get to the end of a FINAL set of an exercise.

    So for example, if I do exercise x at 10 lbs at 10-12 reps and I’m challenged but can complete it, the next set may be the same lbs and reps, but that final set is when he may jump 5 or 10 lbs, have me do less reps, but I can barely finish - in fact he’s helping me finish.

    His hand may be on the lat pulldown bar, leg curls, ab crunches bars - actually helping me with the last 3-5 reps. Not spotting but actually helping me.

    He never says “ok, let’s stop at 8 then .” He’ll help me til we get to 10, 12, 15 whatever - like it’s more important to get the pre-established number of reps than just saying what I’m thinking which is. “Ok. you did your best on your own, even if it was 8, no need to get to 16.”

    I thought it may be a psychological thing trainers do to pump one up?!

    Hope that makes sense.
  • JAYxMSxPES
    JAYxMSxPES Posts: 193 Member
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    @Chieflrg Hmmm. I would say at least a 9. I can’t say I have anything left in the tank when I get to the end of a FINAL set of an exercise.

    So for example, if I do exercise x at 10 lbs at 10-12 reps and I’m challenged but can complete it, the next set may be the same lbs and reps, but that final set is when he may jump 5 or 10 lbs, have me do less reps, but I can barely finish - in fact he’s helping me finish.

    His hand may be on the lat pulldown bar, leg curls, ab crunches bars - actually helping me with the last 3-5 reps. Not spotting but actually helping me.

    He never says “ok, let’s stop at 8 then .” He’ll help me til we get to 10, 12, 15 whatever - like it’s more important to get the pre-established number of reps than just saying what I’m thinking which is. “Ok. you did your best on your own, even if it was 8, no need to get to 16.”

    I thought it may be a psychological thing trainers do to pump one up?!

    Hope that makes sense.

    I would ask him to stop that. The focus should be on good quality reps; controlled on the way down and strong on the way up. If he's doing upright rows to help you, then he's not really helping you. Unless you're focusing on eccentric lifting, a spotter helping that much isn't productive.
  • Fittreelol
    Fittreelol Posts: 2,535 Member
    Is anyone going to talk about how bad that animated lady's deadlift form is? No wonder her back hurts.
  • mutantspicy
    mutantspicy Posts: 624 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    Just for context..

    There are also a lot of very competant doctors out there, who know what they know, know it, and know when to refer patients to other specialists. I bet there are more people going to the wrong doctor than there are doctors who don't give a *kitten* or who just want to write scripts and take advantage of insurance.

    This is very true. Unfortunately in this country very few people can afford the right doctors, and some of us are very lucky to have insurance that will get us thru emergencies, but to get the kind of real advice necessary for fitness that is out there for real legit. Most regular folk can't afford that. Unless you have pro sponsors and even then you may not get real support. Which is why I say online research is our only recourse, but good luck sorting thru all the garbage. The barbell medicine guys are pretty great, but they are talking to gen pop scenario of body builders, which is better than nothing. Generally speaking there are very few people on this earth who can afford sports medicine doctors to review their individual case.
  • kelly_e_montana
    kelly_e_montana Posts: 1,999 Member
    Get another opinion from someone in sports medicine. You are not lifting super heavy, just similar to real life movements. Plenty of powerlifters have comeback from back problems. Every time I've had any kind of an injury the doctor has told me just to switch hobbies and I think that's a really low lying fruit way to go about life. I've always come back even stronger.
  • trdrsix0s
    trdrsix0s Posts: 11 Member
    If it doesn't hurt to squat or deadlift I would keep doing it. Perhaps after rehabbing disc. Have to listen to your body for answers. IMHO many doctors are overly conservative in their activity recommendations. I had a Dr in H. S. Tell me I could never overhead press again bc of bulging disc. Found another dr rehabbed disc and went on to press 225 pounds overhead a few years later. I'd think you could modify volume and intensity. To keep squat d/l to actually help yourback stay healthy.

    I'd find a doc with sports medicine background and tell him your goals.
  • LoveMyLife_NYC
    LoveMyLife_NYC Posts: 230 Member
    I'd definitely get a second opinion. I know everyone's body is different, but I can tell you when I had a major accident 6 years ago, my spine curved the wrong way, my muscles spasmed, and my hips rotated out of alignment. The doctor told me to remain on a couch, take muscle relaxers, and hope I don't get arthritis. He said running and weight lifting were going to make it worse, and maybe eventually I'd walk without limping. I ditched him and got a trainer and a PT. I strengthened all the muscles around my injury, stretched a lot, and eventually added significant weight to my squats and deadlifts. Within months, I ran my first 10K race and lost 4 pants sizes. It was a long and painful journey and something that still comes back to haunt me if I'm not careful, but lifting weights saved my quality of life. You know your own body and what makes it hurt vs. what makes it feel better. Find a doc who is also an athlete. They don't like to be sidelined with injuries either and are more likely to help you get back to crushing your goals.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    mutantspicy wrote: »
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    Just for context..

    There are also a lot of very competant doctors out there, who know what they know, know it, and know when to refer patients to other specialists. I bet there are more people going to the wrong doctor than there are doctors who don't give a *kitten* or who just want to write scripts and take advantage of insurance.

    This is very true. Unfortunately in this country very few people can afford the right doctors, and some of us are very lucky to have insurance that will get us thru emergencies, but to get the kind of real advice necessary for fitness that is out there for real legit. Most regular folk can't afford that. Unless you have pro sponsors and even then you may not get real support. Which is why I say online research is our only recourse, but good luck sorting thru all the garbage. The barbell medicine guys are pretty great, but they are talking to gen pop scenario of body builders, which is better than nothing. Generally speaking there are very few people on this earth who can afford sports medicine doctors to review their individual case.

    Maybe it's just my experience, but I think getting to see good doctors is more about asking the right questions and correctly identifying/describing your issues and goals than it is insurance or funding. Or maybe my injuries and problems and goals and whatnot simply haven't painted me into such a tight corner that it's become an issue.
  • BrianKMcFalls
    BrianKMcFalls Posts: 190 Member
    Get a second opinion, if you can find a doctor who lifts, that's probably your best case scenario. A doctor who doesn't do anything, is fine telling you to not do anything. Lots of doctors (and everyday folk), think old people should get weak and waste away, cause that's "normal".
  • Erik8484
    Erik8484 Posts: 458 Member
    Another recommendation that you see a doctor that specialises in sports medicine. Someone with a focus on getting people healthy so that they can do their sport again.
  • CeeBeeSlim
    CeeBeeSlim Posts: 1,348 Member
    Thanks all. I think I need to find the RIGHT sports medicine doc. I did go to one first - a female who lifted whose about my age. She told me to squat, touch my toes, checked my form and said I needed phys therapy to strengthen my hips and core and to stop taking the pain pills i was taking that she thought should be off the market (interestingly the same pills that this new doc told me to start taking three times a day!) and to stretch more. I only went to this second doc because the first seemed to not address the pain I was in. This second - although is prob now I realize not the best - did address the pain which has given me some much needed relief.
  • notarunnermfp
    notarunnermfp Posts: 43 Member
    edited December 2018
    I was powerlifting (305 squat/345 dead in competition) until my back began bothering me while peaking for a meet 1.5 years ago and have been in chronic pain for the past year. I was diagnosed with Degenerative Disc disease. After seeing my recent imaging and comparing to an MRI from 8 years ago, my long time chiropractor and a neurosurgeon I saw recently both agreed that it would be best if I stop squatting and deadlifting. I tried to rehab and rebuild my squats/deads while working with a physical therapist before this, but my pain only become worse.
    I know many people are able to recover or work through back injuries (I had several bulged discs on the previous MRI and went on to powerlift with no issues until recently) but in my situation now I feel it is best if I try to minimize loading my spine and no longer squat/deadlift.
    It has been really difficult to get motivated to lift again, but through working back slowly and trying different things, I have found a routine I am satisfied with for bodybuilding purposes. Leg press, barbell hip thrust, leg curl and extn, walking lunges, abductor work, etc. are the bulk of my lower body training. I would really like to find a belt squat to see if that would be a good option for lower body work while minimizing loading my spine.

    Like I said, I know other people have had very different experiences and may disagree with giving them up, and for you that may not be the answer, but in my experience I have not been able to get back to them.
    (I'm unsure if I'm kind of a special case, as I already had degeneration and several bulged discs at 17. Degeneration is 'normal', but my doc said my spine looks more like a 50-60 year old than a 25 year old.. I hope to try a different doctor or PT in the future, but for now I'm still trying to pay off the bills I've accrued getting this far.)
    I have not been told to stop exercising or lifting entirely, just to be easy on my spine. That’s been my experience, I gave them up.

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