Karma
Or if you prefer English, cause and effect.
It's often described as a quasi magical thing associated with Eastern and New Age religious beliefs of reincarnation.
Or it's associated with a tit for tat philosophy, to be delivered eventually in a cut and dry way. Loosely reminiscent of the Old Testament An Eye For An Eye code of ethics but passively ascribed to rather than actively.
In other words good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people at least eventually.
Ok Debbie Downer here, I know. But I see the people of the worst character traits reaping tremendous comforts and worldly advantages. While those committed to a behavioral model of honesty and generosity and harmlessness suffer the most, in both the short and the long run.
What do you think? Is there a transcendent, Universal scale of Justice?
And if there is, are any of us equipped to understand it?
It's often described as a quasi magical thing associated with Eastern and New Age religious beliefs of reincarnation.
Or it's associated with a tit for tat philosophy, to be delivered eventually in a cut and dry way. Loosely reminiscent of the Old Testament An Eye For An Eye code of ethics but passively ascribed to rather than actively.
In other words good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people at least eventually.
Ok Debbie Downer here, I know. But I see the people of the worst character traits reaping tremendous comforts and worldly advantages. While those committed to a behavioral model of honesty and generosity and harmlessness suffer the most, in both the short and the long run.
What do you think? Is there a transcendent, Universal scale of Justice?
And if there is, are any of us equipped to understand it?
1
Replies
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I think *kitten* happens to everyone. And I think all people have the ability to do good and to do bad, we're just people.1
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personally i think there's good and bad sure. black and white.
but sometimes, those choices can be the same thing. shades of grey.
maybe sometimes you gotta be a bad person to help a good person.
should someone who does bad for the right reasons still need a karmic comeuppance?
i don't think any of them ever truly balance each other out regardless. no scales of justice for it.
so i also don't think someone who chooses "bad" ever pays for it specifically, at least not anymore than anybody else, and not in a "karmic" manner.
i think it's okay to believe in karma though, to hope for it where it doesn't exist.
human lives are all about trying to balance the scales, making order from chaos.
every day, your entire life, you're going to have to work on balancing things.
so it's at least nice to hope that sometimes things may tip your way.5 -
What do you think? Is there a transcendent, Universal scale of Justice?
nope
But I see the people of the worst character traits reaping tremendous comforts and worldly advantages. While those committed to a behavioral model of honesty and generosity and harmlessness suffer the most, in both the short and the long run.
IME really crappy people usually don't get too much long term good out of life, they might for a while but eventually friends and family all figure out they are *kitten* and they lose their support system. There are those brilliant con artists and what not who somehow make everyone love em and get what they want all the time, but that's not really your average joe.
Then there are the middle grounders, they are mostly good friend or family but willing to do some bad things to get what they want in life. They tend to be the most successful, they can maintain their support system and keep climbing.
Then there are the givers. They have a hard time, they look out for everyone else and no one looks out for them. A little selfishness is important for survival IMO.4 -
No and no.
The only transcendent "force" is homeostasis.1 -
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I don't believe in Karma (Christian here) as some type of cosmic force, but I've observed that, generally, sooner or later, what goes around comes around.1
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Admittedly this thread was inspired by my study of and experience working with Cluster B personalities. Malignantly and consistently manipulative personalities to put it basically.
Evil is real (my belief, also consistent with Christian belief) and those who completely turn themselves over to it can often brag of a lifetime of success skillfully manipulating others. The rewards aren't only worldly and material, but represented in social currency as well - loyal lackies, flying monkees, that sort of thing.
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leut_underpants wrote: »Admittedly this thread was inspired by my study of and experience working with Cluster B personalities. Malignantly and consistently manipulative personalities to put it basically.
Evil is real (my belief, also consistent with Christian belief) and those who completely turn themselves over to it can often brag of a lifetime of success skillfully manipulating others. The rewards aren't only wordly and material, but represented in social currency as well - loyal lackies, flying monkers, that sort of thing.
What's a flying monker?
Someone who is prone to dole out narcissistic abuse.
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leut_underpants wrote: »Admittedly this thread was inspired by my study of and experience working with Cluster B personalities. Malignantly and consistently manipulative personalities to put it basically.
Evil is real (my belief, also consistent with Christian belief) and those who completely turn themselves over to it can often brag of a lifetime of success skillfully manipulating others. The rewards aren't only wordly and material, but represented in social currency as well - loyal lackies, flying monkers, that sort of thing.
What's a flying monker?
Oops sorry, auto correct screwed that up. I'll edit it. I meant flying monkees, like those in the Wizard of Oz' who did wicked witch's bidding but had no ability to understand what they were really involved in.1 -
777Gemma888 wrote: »leut_underpants wrote: »Admittedly this thread was inspired by my study of and experience working with Cluster B personalities. Malignantly and consistently manipulative personalities to put it basically.
Evil is real (my belief, also consistent with Christian belief) and those who completely turn themselves over to it can often brag of a lifetime of success skillfully manipulating others. The rewards aren't only wordly and material, but represented in social currency as well - loyal lackies, flying monkers, that sort of thing.
What's a flying monker?
Someone who is prone to dole out narcissistic abuse.
Totally.2 -
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MistressSara wrote: »
The thing about Christian belief is that everyone is a sinner and if we all got what we deserved it would not be nice. That’s how it differs from a belief in karma which includes the belief that humans can do good and rewards are earned. Sorry for the religious talk. I’ll delete if anyone finds it offensive.Admittedly this thread was inspired by my study of and experience working with Cluster B personalities. Malignantly and consistently manipulative personalities to put it basically.
Evil is real (my belief, also consistent with Christian belief) and those who completely turn themselves over to it can often brag of a lifetime of success skillfully manipulating others. The rewards aren't only wordly and material, but represented in social currency as well - loyal lackies, flying monkers, that sort of thing.
Getting back to my original muse though, Christianity supports reward for goodness and punishment for badness as do all the Abrahamic religions and all the reincarnation based Eastern religions. All of these differ with each other in their narrative of how, in detail, Justice is served.
Also homeostasis was mentioned upthread, which was an interesting contribution from a non religious perspective.
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leut_underpants wrote: »Admittedly this thread was inspired by my study of and experience working with Cluster B personalities. Malignantly and consistently manipulative personalities to put it basically.
Evil is real (my belief, also consistent with Christian belief) and those who completely turn themselves over to it can often brag of a lifetime of success skillfully manipulating others. The rewards aren't only worldly and material, but represented in social currency as well - loyal lackies, flying monkees, that sort of thing.
I'm not sure the mentally ill of that type are going to pick up on the social signals that keep most of us in check. Also not sure Christianity even holds the mentally ill accountable. Karma shouldn't care at all though, karma should be messing those people up for sure. If it's not, nothing is real anymore, man.
Manipulative personalities aren't classicly mentally ill like schizoids, delusionals and psychotics. The manipulative tend to know exactly what they're doing.
I don't want to get in over my head with the clinical lingo though. I'll just use the word manipulative.2 -
leut_underpants wrote: »leut_underpants wrote: »Admittedly this thread was inspired by my study of and experience working with Cluster B personalities. Malignantly and consistently manipulative personalities to put it basically.
Evil is real (my belief, also consistent with Christian belief) and those who completely turn themselves over to it can often brag of a lifetime of success skillfully manipulating others. The rewards aren't only worldly and material, but represented in social currency as well - loyal lackies, flying monkees, that sort of thing.
I'm not sure the mentally ill of that type are going to pick up on the social signals that keep most of us in check. Also not sure Christianity even holds the mentally ill accountable. Karma shouldn't care at all though, karma should be messing those people up for sure. If it's not, nothing is real anymore, man.
Manipulative personalities aren't classicly mentally ill like schizoids, delusionals and psychotics. The manipulative tend to know exactly what they're doing.
I don't want to get in over my head with the clinical lingo though. I'll just use the word manipulative.
Wait, isn't your refusal to get in over your head a form of manipulation? You're minimizing the possible scenarios in which you could be wrong. Setting yourself up for success. This seems fishy.
I'd even postulate that you know exactly what you're doing.
Oh no I'll have to delete this thread now1 -
I like the idea of karma, like "fairness", treat people how you'd like to be treated kinda thing
I don't believe in it tho
Classic example is babies who suffer and die, no "karma" there
I do sometimes think when "bad" things happen to me of what I may have done to deserve it...and I can always find a guilt that I can attribute to it.
Maybe not "an eye fo an eye" but I've wronged, and deserve to be wronged (or righted) myself, altho when good things happen I don't think I deserve them in the same way as the bad.1 -
I like the idea of karma, like "fairness", treat people how you'd like to be treated kinda thing
I don't believe in it tho
Classic example is babies who suffer and die, no "karma" there
I do sometimes think when "bad" things happen to me of what I may have done to deserve it...and I can always find a guilt that I can attribute to it.
Maybe not "an eye fo an eye" but I've wronged, and deserve to be wronged (or righted) myself, altho when good things happen I don't think I deserve them in the same way as the bad.
Sometimes evil happens to you and you don't deserve it. 2 -
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Big believer in what goes around, comes around". We may not always be there to see it, but I believe it happens.1
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elsie6hickman wrote: »Big believer in what goes around, comes around". We may not always be there to see it, but I believe it happens.
Judge Judy also says this.1 -
A ladys dog attacked my dog, I filed a police report. 2 months later I found a tortoise, it was that ladys tortoise, she was missing it so much and gave me $100 for finding it and we've been on good terms since. (she takes better care of her dog now too, and it hasn't been loose since).
I had a major unexpected bill, hubby and I didn't know how to make ends meet that month... a stranger came up to me in subway and gave me a wad of cash and walked away.
Two days ago I lost my dogs poop bag holder, yesterday I went to a benefit party for rescue dogs and they gave me a goodie bag, inside lo and behold was a brand new dog poop bag holder.
I could go on and on... I feel like everyday my life is full of these weird coincidences. I just keep wondering WHY, and how did I ever get so lucky? Whenever I am in need of something , it always seems to appear right at the right time.....2 -
A ladys dog attacked my dog, I filed a police report. 2 months later I found a tortoise, it was that ladys tortoise, she was missing it so much and gave me $100 for finding it and we've been on good terms since. (she takes better care of her dog now too, and it hasn't been loose since).
I had a major unexpected bill, hubby and I didn't know how to make ends meet that month... a stranger came up to me in subway and gave me a wad of cash and walked away.
Two days ago I lost my dogs poop bag holder, yesterday I went to a benefit party for rescue dogs and they gave me a goodie bag, inside was a brand new dog poop bag holder.
I could go on and on... I feel like everyday my life is full of these weird coincidences. I just keep wondering WHY, and how did I ever get so lucky?
I love this1 -
A ladys dog attacked my dog, I filed a police report. 2 months later I found a tortoise, it was that ladys tortoise, she was missing it so much and gave me $100 for finding it and we've been on good terms since. (she takes better care of her dog now too, and it hasn't been loose since).
I had a major unexpected bill, hubby and I didn't know how to make ends meet that month... a stranger came up to me in subway and gave me a wad of cash and walked away.
Two days ago I lost my dogs poop bag holder, yesterday I went to a benefit party for rescue dogs and they gave me a goodie bag, inside lo and behold was a brand new dog poop bag holder.
I could go on and on... I feel like everyday my life is full of these weird coincidences. I just keep wondering WHY, and how did I ever get so lucky? Whenever I am in need of something , it always seems to appear right at the right time.....
Does this one worry you? I feel like I would be wondering when the mob was going to come take me out or something0 -
Back in the 70's and 80's I chased a lot of women. Successfully. Left a lot of broken hearts. Upset Parents.
Now I have 3 daughters and 4 granddaughters. Karma?3 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »Back in the 70's and 80's I chased a lot of women. Successfully. Left a lot of broken hearts. Upset Parents.
Now I have 3 daughters and 4 granddaughters. Karma?
Yep. Doesn't sound at all fair to me but you seem to be fine with it.0 -
I think people get carried away with their own anecdotal evidence to describe broad spectrums of life. I also believe a persons bias will determine how they see things. I dont feel qualified to deem the average someone evil or not, nor do i feel qualified in determining what is deserved for another.3
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I think people get carried away with their own anecdotal evidence to describe broad spectrums of life. I also believe a persons bias will determine how they see things. I dont feel qualified to deem the average someone evil or not, nor do i feel qualified in determining what is deserved for another.
well geeze, what good are you then?2 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »Back in the 70's and 80's I chased a lot of women. Successfully. Left a lot of broken hearts. Upset Parents.
Now I have 3 daughters and 4 granddaughters. Karma?
Yep. Doesn't sound at all fair to me but you seem to be fine with it.
Live and learn.
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jennifer_417 wrote: »I don't believe in Karma (Christian here) as some type of cosmic force, but I've observed that, generally, sooner or later, what goes around comes around.
Yep. That's karma.0
This discussion has been closed.
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