Low carb Vs keto
Replies
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Depending on the vegetables you choose, you can have really quite large quantities on keto. The recommended daily intake of vegetables (in my country, at least) is 400g. I consistently eat around 500g or 600g per day whilst staying well under my 20g carb allowance.
Ketogenic diets can be very effective for those trying to lose weight whilst dealing with metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, type II diabetes, etc. (They also seem to be effective in curbing appetite which makes it easier for those who have been persistently hungry on other regimes to eat at a calorie deficit.) However, if these issues don't apply to you, I wouldn't stress about carb reduction too much.3 -
Anyway, OP, has any of the feedback been helpful? Any other thoughts/questions before we get off on a detour about some silly Netflix movie (there are huge numbers of Netflix flicks about nutrition and they tend to be extreme and contradict each other). I just hate it when people claim "carbs" are bad, when the evidence does not support that and as you noted in your first post, vegetables -- largely carbs -- are some of the healthiest options. Like foods that are high in fat and even protein, those high in carbs are quite variable. I happen to think low carbing can be helpful to some, though, and might well be worth experimenting with to see what carb level you prefer.7
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Anyway, OP, has any of the feedback been helpful? Any other thoughts/questions before we get off on a detour about some silly Netflix movie (there are huge numbers of Netflix flicks about nutrition and they tend to be extreme and contradict each other).
They're not colloquially known as Mockumentaries for nothing.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Here's what I don't understand. If these claims were actually true and backed by legitimate human-based scientific evidence, why wouldn't everyone be hopping on the keto train?
Or are the majority of us so dense/uneducated that we stubbornly choose to cling to our carbs even though they're apparently killing us?
This is the part that make no sense to me.
Cause the big bad food industry has us all addicted to the carbz and we have no free will when it comes to what we eat.
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MercifulRelease wrote: »Depending on the vegetables you choose, you can have really quite large quantities on keto. The recommended daily intake of vegetables (in my country, at least) is 400g. I consistently eat around 500g or 600g per day whilst staying well under my 20g carb allowance.
Ketogenic diets can be very effective for those trying to lose weight whilst dealing with metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, type II diabetes, etc. (They also seem to be effective in curbing appetite which makes it easier for those who have been persistently hungry on other regimes to eat at a calorie deficit.) However, if these issues don't apply to you, I wouldn't stress about carb reduction too much.
Spinach is one of the lowest carbohydrate vegetables and 100 grams has 3.8 grams of carbohydrates. So eating 600 grams would be over 20 grams of carbohydrates. What vegetables are you eating 600 grams of while being "well under" 20 grams of carbohydrates?11 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »
Here's what I don't understand. If these claims were actually true and backed by legitimate human-based scientific evidence, why wouldn't everyone be hopping on the keto train?
Or are the majority of us so dense/uneducated that we stubbornly choose to cling to our carbs even though they're apparently killing us?
This is the part that make no sense to me.
But don't ya know, the big bad government, which is so full of moles that it has information leaks constantly about national security secrets and its innermost workings, is secretly engaging in a massive cover up to keep us addicted to carbs? And the only people who can set us free are people who a financial interest in promoting Ketogenic diets?8 -
Ok guys, lets get back om topic. If we want to battle the claims, we can move the portion to a new thread2
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I don't feel that all carbs are bad which is why I have a vegetable serving with my protein. There are carbs I consider bad like highly processed grains which I doubt people living in blue zones buy by box load. I choose to not be a vegetarian because I like meat. Blue zones don't interest me because there are so many variables to choose from it would be difficult to nail down the exact causality of of these pockets of longevity. Is it the water, the air, the local source of food, is it genetics and on and on.
I can't move to a blue zone so if is related to an environmental factor I can't benefit. If its genetic related that train left the station a long time ago. If it is diet related I have modified mine in a way that suits me and my goals. I also know that it is a healthier diet and lifestyle then I had before. The Magic Pill documentary is what started me down the path researching and ultimately choosing a low carb / high fat way of eating. It however is not the bible that I point to to justify my choice, it merely made me curious. Blue zones don't offend me so I think if someone wants to bring up the Magic Pill in a discussion titled "Keto Vs Low Carb" it shouldn't bother the Blue Zone folks.
As for some of the more abstract hypothesis like will keto or LCHF affect cancer, alzheimer's etc. I doubt we will ever know in my lifetime (even if I were in a blue zone). Aside from no one will probably ever fund it, there is just not enough data beyond anecdotal observation at this point.10 -
What’s the “carb food industry”? Carbohydrates are one of three major macronutrients and are present in Whole Foods like fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy, as well as many commercially prepared foods. It’s such a diverse group of foods I’m struggling to understand who the one agency who is profiting by keeping us all addicted. Is it Big Broccoli that is secretly behind all this?Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
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I don't feel that all carbs are bad which is why I have a vegetable serving with my protein. There are carbs I consider bad like highly processed grains which I doubt people living in blue zones buy by box load. I choose to not be a vegetarian because I like meat. Blue zones don't interest me because there are so many variables to choose from it would be difficult to nail down the exact causality of of these pockets of longevity. Is it the water, the air, the local source of food, is it genetics and on and on.
I can't move to a blue zone so if is related to an environmental factor I can't benefit. If its genetic related that train left the station a long time ago. If it is diet related I have modified mine in a way that suits me and my goals. I also know that it is a healthier diet and lifestyle then I had before. The Magic Pill documentary is what started me down the path researching and ultimately choosing a low carb / high fat way of eating. It however is not the bible that I point to to justify my choice, it merely made me curious. Blue zones don't offend me so I think if someone wants to bring up the Magic Pill in a discussion titled "Keto Vs Low Carb" it shouldn't bother the Blue Zone folks.
As for some of the more abstract hypothesis like will keto or LCHF affect cancer, alzheimer's etc. I doubt we will ever know in my lifetime (even if I were in a blue zone). Aside from no one will probably ever fund it, there is just not enough data beyond anecdotal observation at this point.
The very point of studying the blue zones is to identify the non-variables, things that can be implemented by anyone regardless of their geographic location or genetics. That you call out "so many variables" as a reason it doesn't interest you is actually an indication that you don't really understand what is involved.
Bringing up the blue zones and "The Magic Pill" as some sort of equivalents is ridiculous. That you're not offended by the reality of the blue zones is great. That doesn't mean that people are somehow obligated to pretend that Pete Evans isn't a quack.
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janejellyroll wrote: »I don't feel that all carbs are bad which is why I have a vegetable serving with my protein. There are carbs I consider bad like highly processed grains which I doubt people living in blue zones buy by box load. I choose to not be a vegetarian because I like meat. Blue zones don't interest me because there are so many variables to choose from it would be difficult to nail down the exact causality of of these pockets of longevity. Is it the water, the air, the local source of food, is it genetics and on and on.
I can't move to a blue zone so if is related to an environmental factor I can't benefit. If its genetic related that train left the station a long time ago. If it is diet related I have modified mine in a way that suits me and my goals. I also know that it is a healthier diet and lifestyle then I had before. The Magic Pill documentary is what started me down the path researching and ultimately choosing a low carb / high fat way of eating. It however is not the bible that I point to to justify my choice, it merely made me curious. Blue zones don't offend me so I think if someone wants to bring up the Magic Pill in a discussion titled "Keto Vs Low Carb" it shouldn't bother the Blue Zone folks.
As for some of the more abstract hypothesis like will keto or LCHF affect cancer, alzheimer's etc. I doubt we will ever know in my lifetime (even if I were in a blue zone). Aside from no one will probably ever fund it, there is just not enough data beyond anecdotal observation at this point.
The very point of studying the blue zones is to identify the non-variables, things that can be implemented by anyone regardless of their geographic location or genetics. That you call out "so many variables" as a reason it doesn't interest you is actually an indication that you don't really understand what is involved.
Bringing up the blue zones and "The Magic Pill" as some sort of equivalents is ridiculous. That you're not offended by the reality of the blue zones is great. That doesn't mean that people are somehow obligated to pretend that Pete Evans isn't a quack.
Yes I think suggesting that the air quality in Blue Zones is potentially a prominent contributing factor in their overall health and longevity is a bit of a red herring. Shying away from contradictory research because it’s too complex and instead relying on the simplification is a propaganda based Netflix “documentary” isn’t really a strong testimonial for your position.9 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
What’s the “carb food industry”? Carbohydrates are one of three major macronutrients and are present in Whole Foods like fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy, as well as many commercially prepared foods. It’s such a diverse group of foods I’m struggling to understand who the one agency who is profiting by keeping us all addicted. Is it Big Broccoli that is secretly behind all this?Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
What do a carrot farmer, the guy who invented the Doritos Locos taco, and the grandma who always offers you an oatmeal raisin cookie have in common? In this essay, I will outline the deep state connections of the "carb food industry" . . .14 -
I don't feel that all carbs are bad which is why I have a vegetable serving with my protein.
Good.Blue zones don't interest me because there are so many variables to choose from it would be difficult to nail down the exact causality of of these pockets of longevity. Is it the water, the air, the local source of food, is it genetics and on and on.
It's probably the diet and lifestyle, and we can learn from both. There are similarities as well as differences between the varied blue zones.
The Magic Pill seems to be spreading bad information, based on the poster claiming that "carbs" are bad for us.8 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
What’s the “carb food industry”? Carbohydrates are one of three major macronutrients and are present in Whole Foods like fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy, as well as many commercially prepared foods. It’s such a diverse group of foods I’m struggling to understand who the one agency who is profiting by keeping us all addicted. Is it Big Broccoli that is secretly behind all this?Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
It's also absurd to think that the "big carb" part of "big ag" somehow totally dominates over "big protein." Animal agriculture in the US is quite powerful (and actually one reason for subsidies on some staple foods that are carbs, i.e., corn, as industrial corn is commonly used as animal feed).5 -
I agree that bringing up the blue zones to compare to the Magic Pill was not needed. The Magic Pill is a show on reducing carbs to treat health issues like IR, autism, obesity and such, whereas the blue zones have multiple lifestyle factors that affect a person's longevity, not to mention the fact that those in the blue zones tend to have lower rates of the health issues being treated in the show.
One is preventative life style, area, genetics and other factors (often including a diet high in unrefined and minimally processed, whole food carbs) whereas the show is just about treating a handful of lifestyle based health issues with a diet lower in carbs (mainly refined and processed).
Blue zones would be relevant to bring up when Magic Pill is mentioned as a motivator to look into low carb for improved health only if the blue zones have been shown to help treat those health issues too. Two different topics. Like comparing apples and... Steak. Jmo.18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
What’s the “carb food industry”? Carbohydrates are one of three major macronutrients and are present in Whole Foods like fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy, as well as many commercially prepared foods. It’s such a diverse group of foods I’m struggling to understand who the one agency who is profiting by keeping us all addicted. Is it Big Broccoli that is secretly behind all this?Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
What do a carrot farmer, the guy who invented the Doritos Locos taco, and the grandma who always offers you an oatmeal raisin cookie have in common? In this essay, I will outline the deep state connections of the "carb food industry" . . .
I look forward to reading the rest of this. I'm a little disappointed that grandma's been in bed with Big Dorito this whole time. The carrot farmer I wouldn't put past her though. She's from a humble background.11 -
Netflix flicks argue that blue zone like diets treat all those same conditions as well or better than low carb. "Forks Over Knives" is one such example.
I'm not a fan of FoK (except that I'm a fan of whole foods and vegetables), but the problem is bringing up "The Magic Pill" to claim that carbs are bad for us, which is not accurate. Lots of diets help with obesities and related conditions.
Can we get back to OP's question? -- the claim that carbs are bad for us and that we should take "The Magic Pill" seriously was the claim that derailed this.8 -
I agree that bringing up the blue zones to compare to the Magic Pill was not needed. The Magic Pill is a show on reducing carbs to treat health issues like IR, autism, obesity and such, whereas the blue zones have multiple lifestyle factors that affect a person's longevity, not to mention the fact that those in the blue zones tend to have lower rates of the health issues being treated in the show.
One is preventative life style, area, genetics and other factors (often including a diet high in unrefined and minimally processed, whole food carbs) whereas the show is just about treating a handful of lifestyle based health issues with a diet lower in carbs (mainly refined and processed).
Blue zones would be relevant to bring up when Magic Pill is mentioned as a motivator to look into low carb for improved health only if the blue zones have been shown to help treat those health issues too. Two different topics. Like comparing apples and... Steak. Jmo.
Faulting the blue zone lifestyles for not producing evidence that it will treat certain lifestyle-induced health issues because the lifestyle creates fewer lifestyle-induced health issues . . . I think I need to log off now.16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
What do a carrot farmer, the guy who invented the Doritos Locos taco, and the grandma who always offers you an oatmeal raisin cookie have in common? In this essay, I will outline the deep state connections of the "carb food industry" . . .
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk 6
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