intermittent fasting 16:8
Replies
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As a relative newbie here at MFP, although a seasoned discussion forum active participant and moderator, I’ve quickly learned that IF is a volatile topic, sort of like religion, politics, cholesterol or vegan discussions.
Us IF practitioners would do better here talking amongst ourselves or with one another.6 -
IF has been so good for me. I am someone who is not interested in counting calories/points, etc. So IF has helped me immensely it gives me structure and control. Even when I have a day where I am eating whatever I want in the amounts I want (and we all do this) I still feel in control as long as I keep it in my eating window (6 to 8 hours). I do not struggle with that all or nothing mentality that I used to.
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Many of the people who disagree with the idea that there are benefits to IF beyond calorie control are those who have been doing it the longest.
The question: what evidence is there of specific claimed benefits? is not one that should be restricted to those who do IF. It's a fact question.
The question: does IF help me achieve my personal goals (such as restricting calories) is not actually a controversial one at MFP, as pretty much everyone agrees that it can be helpful for some in doing that.
What I find confusing is that some seem to think IF (something like 16:8) is some new and extreme thing that is difficult, and requires support. I eat breakfast now (and have a schedule that is more like eat at 6-12-9, no snacking), but I went years not eating breakfast and eating a late lunch and then dinner, and never thought that was even uncommon, let alone difficult. If it's really hard for someone, they might not be someone for whom the schedule is helpful (although I'd try it for a while before deciding that, if interested).
I think eating schedules can be very helpful, but don't think IF in the eating window format is really that different than any other way of having an eating schedule -- such as my own.
I think 5:2 or ADF is different and would be harder for me, and I find those interesting/intriguing to some degree. A friend of mine does 5:2 (for a vanity lb loss and now maintenance) and loves it.4 -
i kind of was just hoping to hear from those who had success with it, i didnt mean for it to become a controversial topic
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leahcollett1 wrote: »i kind of was just hoping to hear from those who had success with it, i didnt mean for it to become a controversial topic
I don't think it's a controversial topic. I think the way people talk about it is controversial. I think the overwhelming majority are in agreement on IF and how/when/why it can be beneficial. But that conversation requires a degree of context most people simply don't take the time to type out.
So if you are looking for people's experieces with IF, what exactly do you want to know?
Personally, I've- Gained weight on IF
- Lost weight on IF
- Felt really good on IF
- Felt really *kitten* on IF
- Become more prone to ED/binging on IF.
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those that have had real good success in losing weight with IF and counting calories on here.1
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leahcollett1 wrote: »those that have had real good success in losing weight with IF and counting calories on here.
We can make anything controversial here
I think there have been a lot of posts here from folks who found IF helped them control their appetite and stick to their calorie goal, so if that's what you are hoping to accomplish, it's certainly worth a shot! It does that for some people and not others.
There are other more "theoretical" benefits to IF that have not been adequately studied and tested, or there are studies that support it and studies that don't, and that's where the arguments start.
If you try it, give it a couple of weeks at least, and let us know how it goes!1 -
This group may be of interest to @leahcollett1 or others. I don't fast or have an opinion on the subject but am aware of the group.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/49-intermittent-fasting0 -
I think there have been a lot of posts here from folks who found IF helped them control their appetite and stick to their calorie goal, so if that's what you are hoping to accomplish, it's certainly worth a shot! It does that for some people and not others.
This. (Many people just think of it as skipping breakfast.)
I am a big fan of eating schedules as a good way to control calories for some, and it has worked well for me. I used to not be hungry in the morning, and I likely maintained weight during much of that period because I limited when I ate (I was in an environment where I had other habits that otherwise would have led to weight gain).
I now like breakfast so don't do it, but do something similar in that I don't snack and eat three regular meals. Many people here do a 2-meal schedule, however, or three meals in a more limited time, and many of them say that's helpful for them.
One reason I like having a set schedule is that I tend not to think about eating outside my normal eating time. Trying to graze all day is unsatisfying for me and I can eat a huge amount without even noticing. (However, some really like that mode of eating, people are different.)
At this time of year there are snacks around my office all the time, and that I'm not always in eating mode is quite helpful for me.0 -
leahcollett1 wrote: »those that have had real good success in losing weight with IF and counting calories on here.
Lost 25 lbs on it in 5 months. I did not count calories, however I just tried to eat in moderation, ate what I wanted but when I ate something such as chips/chocolate, etc. I just ate less of it. I would eat unlimited fruits and veggies though.
My eating window was 6 to 8 hours on average.
I am a big exerciser too...would do 30 minute kickboxing 5x per week as well as hiking/walking/stair climbing, etc. about 3x per week as well.
To me as I have stated prior I am not a calorie counter, etc. no desire to do that so personally IF has kept me structured and in control. So for me it has worked and is easy to fit in with my lifestyle.1 -
leahcollett1 wrote: »those that have had real good success in losing weight with IF and counting calories on here.
Did ADF for my weight loss phase (alternated between maintenance level days and then very low calorie days, usually 3oo-400 calories). I used 5:2IF during the transition period between weight loss and maintenance, where I had 5 maintenance days a week, with two 500 calorie days mixed in. Since transitioning into maintenance I've done mostly 16:8IF, with some mental calorie math here and there, as well as using my food scale to measure out calorie dense things that I'm not good at eyeballing. When the scale crept out of my 5lb maintenance range I'd incorporate 5:2IF until I was back in the range. Then this year I made a conscious decision to take a break from maintenance/IF and focus on other things (a new job mostly). Proceeded to gain a few pounds and had to bump up to size 6 jeans, which irritates me, so I'm back to being mindful of my calorie intake and doing 16:8IF. After the holidays I'll most likely go back to 5:2IF, to get rid of the few pounds I've gained.3 -
Easy cliffnote of IF
Benefits: psychological maybe for some
Scientific literature: zero proof of PHYSIOLOGICAL benefits (evidence maybe) but there are meta analysis studies and credible citations/ studies that far outweigh and negates disprove “IF claims and benefits”
It’s a preference based/ timed way of eating. 2000 calories in your “eating window” is gonna be no different than 2000 calories eaten intuitively2 -
No. No. No.
Not reputable.
ETA: stupid quote function didn’t work. This was in reference to the “interesting” “compelling” “Fung” post.4 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »Easy cliffnote of IF
Benefits: psychological maybe for some
Scientific literature: zero proof of PHYSIOLOGICAL benefits (evidence maybe) but there are meta analysis studies and credible citations/ studies that far outweigh and negates disprove “IF claims and benefits”
It’s a preference based/ timed way of eating. 2000 calories in your “eating window” is gonna be no different than 2000 calories eaten intuitively
There is some evidence that IF helps those who are insulin resistant with processing carbs and maintaining better insulin levels. That has been shown in a recent meta analysis of 11 or 12 studies. But that isn't applied to those without metabolic issues.
OP, personally i didn't do well with IF. I am a breakfast eater and fasting made it more difficult to stay within my calorie range.1 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »pierinifitness wrote: »You’ll get a lot if you read this completely and not the the summary as one naysayer here did when I posted it elsewhere at MFP recently:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5064803/pdf/12967_2016_Article_1044.pdf
Thanks for that.Conclusions: Our results suggest that an intermittent fasting program in which all calories are consumed in an 8-h
window each day, in conjunction with resistance training, could improve some health-related biomarkers, decrease
fat mass, and maintain muscle mass in resistance-trained males.
I actually had some time yesterday and reviewed the JISSN site and found IF articles. The studies I found pretty much said the same thing. The one thing that really caught my eye is the comment about maintaining muscle mass. When comparing IF with CR to just CR, the IF with CR participants seem to maintain their muscle mass better than just CR. Although weight management might be similar enough, managing lean muscle mass better is actually a big bonus if that's something you care about. Improving health-related biomarkers is also pretty critical as well and I do know people personally that have done IF, include me, that have seen the biomarker improvement. I really hope IF research continues, it's pretty interested.
Are you saying your biomarkers have improved using IF, with no weight loss?
My brother-in-law I don't believe has lost any weight, but his cholesterol has improved without any real changes in diet. Pre-IF, I lost about 5lbs with calorie restriction alone, nothing major, 230 to 226 / 225 depending. With IF I'm only down to 222. We're not talking major weight here, I really don't have much to lose. The only variable that changed for me is adding IF into the mix, literally nothing else has changed. All joking aside, I've become more of a bourbon connoisseur than I was previously but I would think that more frequent & small alcoholic drinks would be more negative to my overall health, so that's not likely the variable that's driving the changes.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »I have found some very interesting and compelling information from a number of sources. You can check out Dietdoctor.com, Dr Jason Fung, Dr Eric Berg, Dr John Bergman, to mention only a few.
"Interesting" "compelling" and based in actual science are two very different things, sadly.
May I respectfully suggest you look beyond the glossy surface and dig a little deeper on your sources? Or you can enter those names in the search engine here for lots of factual information.
I was trying to avoid being ridiculed which seems to be the way in this thread.
I have been educating myself in IF/EF for a long time.
I'm inclined to believe there are significant benefits, especially when you consider that
"The 2016 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine was awarded to Japan’s Dr. Yoshinori Ohsumi for his discoveries of the underlying mechanisms of a physiological process called autophagy. Autophagy is a natural process by which the body degrades and recycles damaged cells, proteins and toxins...... This is the body’s way of cleaning house. It happens during starvation, calorie restriction, and fasting."
http://lifespa.com/fasting-research-wins-nobel-prize-medicine-right/
Can I ask how long you've been researching IF? Because I've been involved in IF protocols for around 7 years now, and while it's been a helpful tool for me to manage my calorie intake, nothing about my experience or research of IF has led me to believe there's any significant benefits beyond that.
(as a reference point I got involved in IF back when it was mostly an unknown, I connected with a small group of dieting 'outliers' who were doing JUDDD, which is ADF. This was before Mosley and Varady brought IF to the mainstream, and Berkhan was a small time blogger).
I have barely looked into research. That being said, I don't experience stomach pains anymore. I think eating my calories in 2 meals close in proximity is definitely doing something to my digestive system. But I've only been at this for a few weeks so I will report back.0 -
For those who are pro IF, is there some links that show actual positive effects for IF?0
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foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there. If I just wanted POSITIVE I would have changed my boolean query...instead, I used a very unbiased 'intermittent fasting'.0 -
foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there.
I think the accuracy and relevancy of the studies are what matter. Are there studies in here that you find particularly compelling when it comes to the benefits of IF or did you just Google?1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there.
I think the accuracy and relevancy of the studies are what matter. Are there studies in here that you find particularly compelling when it comes to the benefits of IF or did you just Google?
Not just Google but Google Scholar! My university of old doesn't maintain licenses for alumni...the reader can check out the articles to see if they are peer reviewed if they are so inclined. There are positive and negative and neutral effects I am certain with anything, even with IF. Everyone can say it has no positive impact, and that is fine for them, but I have noticed many positive impacts with symptoms of IBS with myself. Sure, it is anecdotal but it is still something to consider.0 -
foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there.
I think the accuracy and relevancy of the studies are what matter. Are there studies in here that you find particularly compelling when it comes to the benefits of IF or did you just Google?
Not just Google but Google Scholar! My university of old doesn't maintain licenses for alumni...the reader can check out the articles to see if they are peer reviewed if they are so inclined. There are positive and negative and neutral effects I am certain with anything, even with IF. Everyone can say it has no positive impact, and that is fine for them, but I have noticed many positive impacts with symptoms of IBS with myself. Sure, it is anecdotal but it is still something to consider.
Since you are skeptical about the validity of studies (which you seem to be) and believe your personal experience with IF is what people should take into account, why answer the question at all?
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janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there.
I think the accuracy and relevancy of the studies are what matter. Are there studies in here that you find particularly compelling when it comes to the benefits of IF or did you just Google?
Not just Google but Google Scholar! My university of old doesn't maintain licenses for alumni...the reader can check out the articles to see if they are peer reviewed if they are so inclined. There are positive and negative and neutral effects I am certain with anything, even with IF. Everyone can say it has no positive impact, and that is fine for them, but I have noticed many positive impacts with symptoms of IBS with myself. Sure, it is anecdotal but it is still something to consider.
Since you are skeptical about the validity of studies (which you seem to be) and believe your personal experience with IF is what people should take into account, why answer the question at all?
chill out there Mashed Potatoes, and stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there.
I think the accuracy and relevancy of the studies are what matter. Are there studies in here that you find particularly compelling when it comes to the benefits of IF or did you just Google?
Not just Google but Google Scholar! My university of old doesn't maintain licenses for alumni...the reader can check out the articles to see if they are peer reviewed if they are so inclined. There are positive and negative and neutral effects I am certain with anything, even with IF. Everyone can say it has no positive impact, and that is fine for them, but I have noticed many positive impacts with symptoms of IBS with myself. Sure, it is anecdotal but it is still something to consider.
Since you are skeptical about the validity of studies (which you seem to be) and believe your personal experience with IF is what people should take into account, why answer the question at all?
I don't believe she's arguing the validity of studies and I think I understand what she means. Basically, with many things exercise & nutrition you will find a variety of results in the peer-reviewed studies. For just about anything you will find studies that suggest that the results are positive, suggests absolutely nothing and that further research is warranted, or suggests that the results are negative. Even within those results, you'll find outliers. In school for my degree I read well over 400 pieces of peer-reviewed research and I can with confidence that very few things are ever absolute in the realm of exercise & nutrition. Note that I didn't say nothing is absolute, just fewer than most people would expect.
As it pertains to IF specifically, there is peer-reviewed research that shows some positive and some negative or that it doesn't really matter when you compare IF to basic calorie restriction. Granted, if we're talking just sheer weight loss IF and basic Calorie restriction show basically the same results. Which I think most of us would expect. However, the IF results do suggest that IF is better at maintaining lean muscle mass. There are others that suggest certain health markers do improve.
I think that because IF is such a hot topic that we'll continue to see more and more research done over the next couple years, so it should be interesting either way the results go.1 -
foxtrot1965 wrote: »I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there. If I just wanted POSITIVE I would have changed my boolean query...instead, I used a very unbiased 'intermittent fasting'.
The post you seemed to be replying to asked for links that showed proof of positive effects of IF, so I think most people would've interpreted your post as you presenting a list supporting positive results of IF, since you didn't say anything else.
Unfortunately, we often get people here who when asked for proof, just throw back a list of links they claim are proof, but when actually read thru it turns out most of the sources are not supportive at all, so it kind of looked like that's what was going on.4 -
foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there.
I think the accuracy and relevancy of the studies are what matter. Are there studies in here that you find particularly compelling when it comes to the benefits of IF or did you just Google?
Not just Google but Google Scholar! My university of old doesn't maintain licenses for alumni...the reader can check out the articles to see if they are peer reviewed if they are so inclined. There are positive and negative and neutral effects I am certain with anything, even with IF. Everyone can say it has no positive impact, and that is fine for them, but I have noticed many positive impacts with symptoms of IBS with myself. Sure, it is anecdotal but it is still something to consider.
Since you are skeptical about the validity of studies (which you seem to be) and believe your personal experience with IF is what people should take into account, why answer the question at all?
chill out there Mashed Potatoes, and stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater
I'm perfectly chill, but thanks for the concern.
If you can't identify if there is a baby in the bathwater (AKA, the good study in the giant Google-produced list), how do you expect anyone else to be able to? You're asking us to never drain the bath because there *could* be a baby in it, but who knows, what is truth anyway?4 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »foxtrot1965 wrote: »
You do realize that not all these studies show a benefit, right?
One of them concludes that IF as practiced during Ramadan has limited positive impacts, doesn't appear to positively impact metabolism, and results in disrupted circadian rhythms and sleep patterns. They conclude the negative changes are significant enough that it "could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/81076
Anyone can Google, the question was about actual positive effects. Presumably the people sharing the studies would have at least done a cursory read of them.
I happen to think that having a wide breadth of studies, negative and positive, are helpful. There are positive ones in there.
I think the accuracy and relevancy of the studies are what matter. Are there studies in here that you find particularly compelling when it comes to the benefits of IF or did you just Google?
Not just Google but Google Scholar! My university of old doesn't maintain licenses for alumni...the reader can check out the articles to see if they are peer reviewed if they are so inclined. There are positive and negative and neutral effects I am certain with anything, even with IF. Everyone can say it has no positive impact, and that is fine for them, but I have noticed many positive impacts with symptoms of IBS with myself. Sure, it is anecdotal but it is still something to consider.
Since you are skeptical about the validity of studies (which you seem to be) and believe your personal experience with IF is what people should take into account, why answer the question at all?
I don't believe she's arguing the validity of studies and I think I understand what she means. Basically, with many things exercise & nutrition you will find a variety of results in the peer-reviewed studies. For just about anything you will find studies that suggest that the results are positive, suggests absolutely nothing and that further research is warranted, or suggests that the results are negative. Even within those results, you'll find outliers. In school for my degree I read well over 400 pieces of peer-reviewed research and I can with confidence that very few things are ever absolute in the realm of exercise & nutrition. Note that I didn't say nothing is absolute, just fewer than most people would expect.
As it pertains to IF specifically, there is peer-reviewed research that shows some positive and some negative or that it doesn't really matter when you compare IF to basic calorie restriction. Granted, if we're talking just sheer weight loss IF and basic Calorie restriction show basically the same results. Which I think most of us would expect. However, the IF results do suggest that IF is better at maintaining lean muscle mass. There are others that suggest certain health markers do improve.
I think that because IF is such a hot topic that we'll continue to see more and more research done over the next couple years, so it should be interesting either way the results go.
It could be that she isn't arguing the validity of studies, but when someone posts a giant pile of studies in response to a specific request and then says they think a "wide breadth" is more important any individual study, it strikes me as similar to saying that it doesn't really matter what a study shows.
Typically, the type of person who discusses studies with statements like "Everyone can say . . . " is someone who is actively discounting the role that studies have in helping us understand human nutrition (or anything, really). It's a rhetorical throwing up of hands and asking "How can we ever know the truth anyway?"
That she follows it up with an appeal for us to consider her anecdotal experience instead of studies confirms my suspicions.
A more thoughtful approach to a large number of studies on a subject is figuring out how to effectively evaluate them, not just be impressed by the large number of them and conclude that the truth must bounce around between them evenly.4
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