Carbs vs fat

Mrsindepenant1 · January 2019

Lately I have been going slightly over my fat % but well under my carb % pretty much what I go over in fat is almost as much as I’m under in my carbs. How will this affect my weight loss? I assume it’s better to be consuming good fats than carbs for weight loss? Most of the days I’m eating are good. We are dairy farming so I consume a fair bit of raw dairy products and home kill meat. Google is conflicting, it says it doesn’t matter it’s calorie for calorie, it also says fats better than carbs and also says the whole limiting carbs is pointless and fat is worse.
So what worked for other mfp members? All helps appreciated.

kami3006 · January 2019

Many of us see our protein and fat numbers as minimums and let carbs fall where they may.

For weight loss, as long as you're within your calorie deficit, you'll lose regardless of your macro breakdown.

janejellyroll · January 2019

It won't, really.

Weight loss is created by a calorie deficit. It isn't "better" to go over on fats than it is to eat carbohydrates (except as it fits your personal preferences), it's just one of many possible eating patterns that is compatible with a diet that meets your nutritional needs. I personally eat more carbohydrates and have success, others eat like you do and have success. What everyone successful at weight loss has in common -- the calorie deficit.

Google is just a search engine, it has no position on fats. You're reading a collection of search results, some may be great and others may be absolute trash. Evaluate the reliability of the source itself, not the search engine.

lemurcat2 · January 2019

Mrsindepenant1 wrote: »

Lately I have been going slightly over my fat % but well under my carb % pretty much what I go over in fat is almost as much as I’m under in my carbs. How will this affect my weight loss?

It won't. Carbs vs. fat don't determine weight loss, calories do.

I assume it’s better to be consuming good fats than carbs for weight loss?

No, unless it affects how hungry you are and whether you stick to your deficit it doesn't matter.

Google is conflicting, it says it doesn’t matter it’s calorie for calorie, it also says fats better than carbs and also says the whole limiting carbs is pointless and fat is worse.

Google isn't really a source, you have to evaluate the sources it brings up.

For weight loss, it doesn't matter.

For nutrition, some foods high in carbs have more micronutrients and fiber than other foods high in carbs (and many people call "carbs" foods that are really as much fat as carbs), some foods higher in fat have more nutrition or offer more benefits than other foods high in fat, some find it more beneficial to limit sat fat some and stick more to fish or plant-sourced fats in general like those in avocados, olives/olive oil, nuts and seeds, as well as fatty fish -- these are what are often called "healthy fats" (but for the vast majority of people getting fat from dairy, eggs, and animals is also fine, although, IMO, in moderation, as with most things). There's a lot more detail I could go into (like omega 3), but in general, unless you have a specific health issue, you don't need to overcomplicate it, for nutrition/health you'd just want to make sure you eat a generally healthy diet with enough protein and a variety of vegetables. If you like and feel satisfied with how you are eating, sounds good! I ate slightly more fat and slightly fewer carbs than MFP's default the whole time I was losing weight, since I just prefer that.

psuLemon · January 2019

Calories > all

Protein + fiber > all for satiety

Also, eat in a way that supports your goals, your eating style and addresses your goals.

zeejane03 · January 2019

Calories is what matters for weight loss, not macros ratios.

Since the WHO recommends less than 30% of your daily calories to be from fat, I aim to hit that or lower and then up my carbs, which are a high satiety food for me. But, hitting a higher fat intake isn't going to do anything negative for your weight loss, as long as you're hitting your calorie targets.

cwolfman13 · January 2019

Mrsindepenant1 wrote: »

Lately I have been going slightly over my fat % but well under my carb % pretty much what I go over in fat is almost as much as I’m under in my carbs. How will this affect my weight loss? I assume it’s better to be consuming good fats than carbs for weight loss? Most of the days I’m eating are good. We are dairy farming so I consume a fair bit of raw dairy products and home kill meat. Google is conflicting, it says it doesn’t matter it’s calorie for calorie, it also says fats better than carbs and also says the whole limiting carbs is pointless and fat is worse.
So what worked for other mfp members? All helps appreciated.

Your macros don't matter for weight loss...calories are what matter. There's nothing particularly magical about MfP's default macros settings...people change them all the time for preference or performance.

JBanx256 · January 2019

Calories are the base of your pyramid of nutritional priorities.
Macros only need to be addressed when you've got the calorie balance dialed-in.

RAFLowCarb · January 2019

You guys are really not helping this person out. The old adage of a calorie is a calorie has been debunked. A calorie of carbohydrates has a different imapct than fat/protein in your body due to hormones such as insulin. I understand the WHO say the 30% thing but it’s based on 1950s science a poor epidemiology. See ‘The Truth about sugar’ by Prof Robert Lustig on YouTube or read Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (or listen/watch him on YouTube/podcasts) to get the truth. Essentially - the best diet is one that eliminates refined carbs and pretty much all sugar. You’re then left with eating healthy (Ie not veg/seed based) fats and moderate protein. It’s not the fat that’s making the world obese and diabetic - it’s the carbs.

lemurcat2 · January 2019

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

The old adage of a calorie is a calorie has been debunked. A calorie of carbohydrates has a different imapct than fat/protein in your body due to hormones such as insulin.

No, if you think "a calorie is a calorie" has been debunked, you don't understand what it means. (Hint: it does not mean that all foods are the same or that overall diet does not matter for nutrition and health.)

It is important to get in fat and protein (and on a lower cal diet I'd watch protein especially), but for the average person it is unlikely either (and especially fat) will be too low for health. I'd still keep protein higher than recommended merely for health to protect against muscle loss, however.

So no disagreement that fat, protein, and carbs serve different roles in the body.

But that does not mean that eating a higher fat diet is better for weight loss or that carbs will be a problem.

What matters for weight loss is: (1) calories; (2) what results in you specifically being more sated and less likely to feel hungry and go off the diet; and (3) what results in you feeling better, having more energy, and otherwise more likely to be active and stick with the way of eating.

Apart from weight loss, nutrition is very important too, but obviously carbs aren't a problem for that unless you ignore everything else and make bad choices in general (choosing less nutrient-dense foods too often, including carbs, fats, or a mix, usually a mix), resulting in a bad diet.

Lustig and Taubes are not unimpeachable authorities. Indeed, there are numerous threads around here where people debunk many of their claims, including the idea that insulin interferes with weight loss (and the Hall studies funded by NuSi contradicts the claim as well).

Veg-based fats are fine, btw, especially from olives, olive oil, avocado, avocado oil, nuts and seeds. Sat fat probably should be consumed in moderation, not to excess -- that's the standard advice now, while total fat amount may not matter, too much sat fat, especially from animal sources is still potentially an issue. (Walter Willett, among many others.)

Omega 3:6 ratio likely matters and is off in the average diet of someone who eats a lot of highly-processed foods, factory-farmed meat, and little fatty fish, but if you don't you probably have no need to worry about it. For example, I eat almost nothing with things like soybean oil added, and lots of fatty fish (and although I think it's not nearly as important other than for personal reasons, get most of my meat/eggs from local, family farms).

zeejane03 · January 2019

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

You guys are really not helping this person out. The old adage of a calorie is a calorie has been debunked. A calorie of carbohydrates has a different imapct than fat/protein in your body due to hormones such as insulin. I understand the WHO say the 30% thing but it’s based on 1950s science a poor epidemiology. See ‘The Truth about sugar’ by Prof Robert Lustig on YouTube or read Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (or listen/watch him on YouTube/podcasts) to get the truth. Essentially - the best diet is one that eliminates refined carbs and pretty much all sugar. You’re then left with eating healthy (Ie not veg/seed based) fats and moderate protein. It’s not the fat that’s making the world obese and diabetic - it’s the carbs.

Not true, it's excess calories that cause weight gain, which then leads to health problems. Been there, done that and once I got the calories thing figured out I lost the extra weight and improved all my health markers. I eat a higher carb woe as well, usually coming in over 200g a day. I'm in excellent health with a current BMI in the low 20s.

And using Taubes as a resource really isn't going to help your case here.

psuLemon · January 2019

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

You guys are really not helping this person out. The old adage of a calorie is a calorie has been debunked. A calorie of carbohydrates has a different imapct than fat/protein in your body due to hormones such as insulin. I understand the WHO say the 30% thing but it’s based on 1950s science a poor epidemiology. See ‘The Truth about sugar’ by Prof Robert Lustig on YouTube or read Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (or listen/watch him on YouTube/podcasts) to get the truth. Essentially - the best diet is one that eliminates refined carbs and pretty much all sugar. You’re then left with eating healthy (Ie not veg/seed based) fats and moderate protein. It’s not the fat that’s making the world obese and diabetic - it’s the carbs.

You need to research metabolic ward studies, de novo lipogenesis and ask yourself why Gary Taubes' company is pretty much done. Calories matter. If you don't believe that eat 6000 calories of low carb and see how that goes for you.

Fact - fats store as body fat more than carbs and protein (which doesn't really have a storage ability).

You also need to look into blue zones. They are the healthiest and longest living places in the world. They consume 70-80% of their diet in carbs.

zeejane03 · January 2019

psuLemon wrote: »

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

You guys are really not helping this person out. The old adage of a calorie is a calorie has been debunked. A calorie of carbohydrates has a different imapct than fat/protein in your body due to hormones such as insulin. I understand the WHO say the 30% thing but it’s based on 1950s science a poor epidemiology. See ‘The Truth about sugar’ by Prof Robert Lustig on YouTube or read Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (or listen/watch him on YouTube/podcasts) to get the truth. Essentially - the best diet is one that eliminates refined carbs and pretty much all sugar. You’re then left with eating healthy (Ie not veg/seed based) fats and moderate protein. It’s not the fat that’s making the world obese and diabetic - it’s the carbs.

You need to research metabolic ward studies, de novo lipogenesis and ask yourself why Gary Taubes' company is pretty much done. Calories matter. If you don't believe that eat 6000 calories of low carb and see how that goes for you.

Fact - fats store as body fat more than carbs and protein (which doesn't really have a storage ability).

You also need to look into blue zones. They are the healthiest and longest living places in the world. They consume 70-80% of their diet in carbs.

Yep, that's what I'm loosely modeling my woe after right now-a mostly whole foods, high plant/high carb woe, with fish included. It's working really well for me right now and I'm achieving my weight management goals with little fuss.

psuLemon · January 2019

zeejane03 wrote: »

psuLemon wrote: »

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

You guys are really not helping this person out. The old adage of a calorie is a calorie has been debunked. A calorie of carbohydrates has a different imapct than fat/protein in your body due to hormones such as insulin. I understand the WHO say the 30% thing but it’s based on 1950s science a poor epidemiology. See ‘The Truth about sugar’ by Prof Robert Lustig on YouTube or read Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (or listen/watch him on YouTube/podcasts) to get the truth. Essentially - the best diet is one that eliminates refined carbs and pretty much all sugar. You’re then left with eating healthy (Ie not veg/seed based) fats and moderate protein. It’s not the fat that’s making the world obese and diabetic - it’s the carbs.

You need to research metabolic ward studies, de novo lipogenesis and ask yourself why Gary Taubes' company is pretty much done. Calories matter. If you don't believe that eat 6000 calories of low carb and see how that goes for you.

Fact - fats store as body fat more than carbs and protein (which doesn't really have a storage ability).

You also need to look into blue zones. They are the healthiest and longest living places in the world. They consume 70-80% of their diet in carbs.

Yep, that's what I'm loosely modeling my woe after right now-a mostly whole foods, high plant/high carb woe, with fish included. It's working really well for me right now and I'm achieving my weight management goals with little fuss.

I should also add...

The 100% best diet, is the one a person can adhere to and that meets their goals.

I lost 50lbs and kept it off for 6 years +. I did it while eating 100g+ of sugar and 250g + a day.

RAFLowCarb · January 2019

Of course a 6000 calorie LCHF diet will cause someone to gain weight (unless they are somehow doing marathons every day). However, people just getting told to ‘eat less’ is too simple. It suggests that everyone is just a glutton/greedy - and that’s the main cause of the obesity epidemic. That’s bull... I agree that nutrient density is important though. People can obviously just cut calories and still have a crappy diet and loose weight - but the focus should be on full health. As for veg oils - I should have been more specific.... Avo/olive are good but fruit oils! Nut/seed oils as long as they are cold pressed and not unstable.

psuLemon · January 2019

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

Of course a 6000 calorie LCHF diet will cause someone to gain weight (unless they are somehow doing marathons every day). However, people just getting told to ‘eat less’ is too simple. It suggests that everyone is just a glutton/greedy - and that’s the main cause of the obesity epidemic. That’s bull... I agree that nutrient density is important though. People can obviously just cut calories and still have a crappy diet and loose weight - but the focus should be on full health. As for veg oils - I should have been more specific.... Avo/olive are good but fruit oils! Nut/seed oils as long as they are cold pressed and not unstable.

CICO isn't too simple, it's simple mathematics. What is difficult is the emotional and behavioral aspects of dieting. So we are not suggesting being a glutton or not eating nutrient dense foods. But eating nutrient dense foods, by not means, suggest that you need or should focus on low carb/high fat. Especially considering there is substantial evidence there are benefits to fruits, veggies, oats and whole grains, regardless if you want to believe in the science or not.

Ultimately, diet has very little impact on overall health. The biggest impact is maintaining a healthy weight and exercise. Even more so, good body composition provides even better improvements because more muscle = greater insulin sensitivity.

johnslater461 · January 2019

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

You guys are really not helping this person out. The old adage of a calorie is a calorie has been debunked. A calorie of carbohydrates has a different imapct than fat/protein in your body due to hormones such as insulin. I understand the WHO say the 30% thing but it’s based on 1950s science a poor epidemiology. See ‘The Truth about sugar’ by Prof Robert Lustig on YouTube or read Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (or listen/watch him on YouTube/podcasts) to get the truth. Essentially - the best diet is one that eliminates refined carbs and pretty much all sugar. You’re then left with eating healthy (Ie not veg/seed based) fats and moderate protein. It’s not the fat that’s making the world obese and diabetic - it’s the carbs.

seska422 · January 2019

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

Of course a 6000 calorie LCHF diet will cause someone to gain weight (unless they are somehow doing marathons every day). However, people just getting told to ‘eat less’ is too simple. It suggests that everyone is just a glutton/greedy - and that’s the main cause of the obesity epidemic. That’s bull... I agree that nutrient density is important though. People can obviously just cut calories and still have a crappy diet and loose weight - but the focus should be on full health. As for veg oils - I should have been more specific.... Avo/olive are good but fruit oils! Nut/seed oils as long as they are cold pressed and not unstable.

Suggesting the reduction of calorie intake is not too simple and doesn't imply gluttony. Creeping weight gain is a thing for many. An average of 250 calories over maintenance per day would lead to about 26 pounds gained per year. The opposite is also true and that means that shaving calories here and there can lead to weight loss without upending someone's preferred way of eating.

The focus of weight loss is weight loss and that, by itself, leads to improved health markers for obese people. A plan that someone won't follow is useless.

lemurcat2 · January 2019

RAFLowCarb wrote: »

However, people just getting told to ‘eat less’ is too simple.

No one is just being told to eat less unless they specifically ask a question where that's the only possible answer.

If you actually read what people said above, nutrition and satiety were both covered. Your assumption that that means more fat and fewer carbs is just wrong. For a subset of people, higher fat may help with satiety.

It suggests that everyone is just a glutton/greedy - and that’s the main cause of the obesity epidemic.

Overeating is absolutely the cause of the obesity epidemic. I don't think that means "everyone is just a glutton/greedy" -- I think it's normal human behavior to want to eat when food is available, especially high cal food that is appealing to us. Given evolutionary pressures it would be strange if that weren't a common thing. Historically there have been many more barriers to prevent overeating -- not just scarcity, but also time for preparation, pre-prepared foods not tasting as good or lasting as well, and social and cultural restrictions on eating outside of certain times and certain ways. Also, we were more active on average.

The claim that it's because we eat less fat is wrong because we simply don't. We eat more fat than ever, along with more carbs and more calories.

People never actually followed the advice to eat a lower fat diet.

This OP's question was simple: can I eat more fat than MFP's guidelines and still lose. The answer received was correct: yes, you should make sure you are getting enough protein, but fat vs. carbs is more about personal preference. (My answer and some others were actually more detailed than that.)

OP's other question: is lower carb and higher fat actually better for weight loss? The answer again was correct: no, not unless you are someone who finds that that way of eating is more sating. Nutritionally there are better and worse choices within the categories, but for weight loss if you hit your calories your fat vs. carbs percentages don't matter.

Mrsindepenant1 · January 2019

Thanks for all of the advice! I spent some time researching last night and looking over the sources that gave the advice too. I’m pretty happy with eating less carbs and higher fat as long as it’s healthy fats obviously. My sugar is low (except for yesterday) and my protein intake is good. Iv lost 2.5kg in 5 days though probably some water weight. I did tend to live off a lot of carbs so I think the reduction has been good albeit not too intentional.

Carbs vs fat

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