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Why the aches and pains right around 40?
ninerbuff
Posts: 48,984 Member
in Debate Club
This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Replies
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Thanks for that cheerful and uplifting message.
~signed, 65 is the new 4032 -
Lol. I guess I’m eight years past the expiration date.
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This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yeah, your guess is wrong. 40 to 45 isn't barring murder and accident, it's including death from those causes and others, such as pregnancy complications, death in child birth, and higher rates of infant mortality. Once a male made it out of childhood and a woman made it past her child-bearing years, life expectancy isn't all that different then and now. Certainly not that different based on the body "wearing out" (as opposed to succumbing to one of the types of cancers that have high cure rates now, or succumbing to a heart attack or stroke that you might survive now with rapid treatment. As you said in the first place, "the body really hasn't changed [much] for thousands of years," so why would you think people were dying of natural causes at age 40?
Also, I would dispute your premise that "aches and pains really start to pick up around age 40 or so." I'm in my late 50s and am not any more prone to aches and pains than when I was 30, and I know a lot of people who have the same experience. If you're not obese (and maybe even if you are) and you stay active, and you don't do stupid things like try to make up for inactivity with one-day-a-week or one-weekend-a-month workouts, and you were not so unfortunate as to lose the genetic lottery when it comes to things like arthritis, there's no reason you should be experiencing more aches and pains at 40 than at 20.
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My aches and pains started to ramp up in my 20's.
In my 50's I have less pain and soreness than in my 30's and 40's.
Something still hurts or aches everyday but with a lower magnitude.
Generalisations are generally unhelpful.
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I'm going to suggest the aches and pains are to a large part caused by our lifestyle. In the last 100 years we have not only become more sedentary (this especially in the last 40 or so) but our movements have become much less varied. Typical person today gets up sits in some mode of transportation, sits looking at a computer (or if moving is doing some highly repetitive task), sits on the way home, does a few odd chores then sits again in front of a screen. If the person breaks that pattern on some rare occasion, like shoveling snow they are in pain for weeks. 100 years ago people's movements had much more variety in them. Even factory work was much more varied before wide adaptation of the assembly line with very specific and limited job tasks.
In addition due to our lifestyles our sympathetic nervous system (flight or fight) is turned on much more in the last 40 years due to stress (some enviromental, some brought on by ourselves). From Harvard Health:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/understanding-the-stress-response
A stressful situation — whether something environmental, such as a looming work deadline, or psychological, such as persistent worry about losing a job — can trigger a cascade of stress hormones that produce well-orchestrated physiological changes. A stressful incident can make the heart pound and breathing quicken. Muscles tense and beads of sweat appear.
This combination of reactions to stress is also known as the "fight-or-flight" response because it evolved as a survival mechanism, enabling people and other mammals to react quickly to life-threatening situations. The carefully orchestrated yet near-instantaneous sequence of hormonal changes and physiological responses helps someone to fight the threat off or flee to safety. Unfortunately, the body can also overreact to stressors that are not life-threatening, such as traffic jams, work pressure, and family difficulties.
Over the years, researchers have learned not only how and why these reactions occur, but have also gained insight into the long-term effects chronic stress has on physical and psychological health. Over time, repeated activation of the stress response takes a toll on the body. Research suggests that chronic stress contributes to high blood pressure, promotes the formation of artery-clogging deposits, and causes brain changes that may contribute to anxiety, depression, and addiction. More preliminary research suggests that chronic stress may also contribute to obesity, both through direct mechanisms (causing people to eat more) or indirectly (decreasing sleep and exercise).
As a sample of one, I had an office job and long commute for 35+years. I had back, neck and various other body part pains, even though I was exercising pretty much daily. I had digestive issues from my excess consumption of vitamin I (Ibuprofen). I lost my job in a corporate restructuring at age 60 and was purposely off work for 6 months. During that time I continued to get up at 5:30 but instead for the corporate rat race I spent about 4-5 hours of the day in various forms of purposeful exercise and did mobility work every day. I was also taking a class so I spend some time studying and did worked on home improvement projects (most of them physical). In addition to the varied movement, my sympathetic nervous system was pretty much turned off.
Guess what, my aches and pains started going away. After 6 months I went back to work in a corporate office environment and my pain issues are coming back. Not as bad as before, at least partially due to a lower stress level, but worse than the pain free 6 months.
Just my $.02.11 -
I think the old guy has some valid points
Also could it be by the time we're 40/50 things are just catching up? I have been dealing with a shoulder issue and my physio guy said it's been from overuse. I had a major back issue on my 20 from over use in the teens.
I also do think hours of being sedentary at desk jobs have terrible effects on us. We have so little time then to be active we perhaps push ourselves a little too much.
I think life expectancy used to be 30s. Now it's much older and that's not necessarily because of advances in modern medicine we just understand more what it takes to be healthy and we don't have things like the plague so I guess science has contributed to that with vaccines.2 -
The assumption that people in the past didn't have aches and pains or issues in their 40s is clearly false the more one studies archeology. The "Ice Man" had tattoos that were over arthritis points, for example, and he was in his 40s and was eating an excellent diet and getting plenty of exercise and in excellent physical shape otherwise. He also had heart disease, so making the case it's not always a modern "lifestyle disease".
Biologically, humans are quite unique in that we "keep on living" well past childbearing age - most animals do not. There's debate on whether this is due to our tool use, the "grandmother effect" in which elders made key contributions to the survival of grandchildren, or biological fluke.0 -
Personally I've never felt fitter than I do now, I'm 50 in a few months (gaaa still can't get used to that number, mentally I'm somewhere in my 20's LOL)... but when I turned 40 I was overweight and when I think about it I remember one day at that age pulling a muscle in my neck washing the car! that was the first time I thought, hey body you are starting to show your age!
Also when I was heavier I had hip problems, sciatica and in agony for months at a time - losing weight sorted that out.
People do live longer now than yesteryear but we have so much more knowledge now, better diets in general and a good health service.
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Keep 'em coming. The insight from everyone is good to see. I don't have the full answers at all, just what I've learned and from college (a long time ago) and from ongoing interest of reading and studying new technologies for health. I am no means an expert on the subject, but it's peaked my curiosity now and I may just start studying up on it more out of it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but at some point, until maybe the last couple of centuries, natural selection played a part.
Before we had medical advances, those who were dealt a bad hand genetically didn't have as much opportunity to pass on their genes.
Today, people are living longer. Even those who may have not have had as long a life in the past.
Before vision correction, I probably wouldn't have survived as I couldn't even see across a large room when I was a child. How would I hunt, etc?
Today, with vision correction, I've lived long enough to experience the joys of arthritis. Oddly, it's not my knees or hips, but my shoulder. One would think it would be my legs, having carried excess weight for years. But instead, sports and probably military service did a number on one of my shoulders.
I'm not sure I have more aches and pains, other than the arthritis. But I do know it takes longer (for me) to recover from an injury in my 50s than it did when I was in my 20s.3 -
LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »Personally I've never felt fitter than I do now, I'm 50 in a few months (gaaa still can't get used to that number, mentally I'm somewhere in my 20's LOL)... but when I turned 40 I was overweight and when I think about it I remember one day at that age pulling a muscle in my neck washing the car! that was the first time I thought, hey body you are starting to show your age!
Also when I was heavier I had hip problems, sciatica and in agony for months at a time - losing weight sorted that out.
People do live longer now than yesteryear but we have so much more knowledge now, better diets in general and a good health service.
Me too, I turn 61 in March, up until 57 I was aging rapidly, had constant pain in my hips etc, started exercising, eating sensibly and the weight fell off and as if by magic the pain disappeared.4 -
This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Even today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@Theoldguy1 pretty much nailed this one, but I'll add a bit.
Activity is the predominant variable. The majority of the inventions over the last century have been ones of convenience. We have fulfilled all needs and solely concerned with wants in the Western world. We are reaching the point where we are going to have to implement intentional inefficiency to increase physical activity.
I would agree that certain elements of performance peak and then diminish, but this is entirely based upon the sport. Adventure racing and many endurance sports are dominated by people in their 40s, but there is an element of experience and energy maintenance at play.
As for life expectancy, we've simply removed the majority of environmental and medical influences.2 -
I had aches and pains (especially my back hurting) around 40 because I was carrying 30-40 extra pounds that I didn't need and was not working out whatsoever. Now that I am 46 I have no aches and pains (other than the day after I had the chance to work out with David Goggins, LOL), because I have lost the extraneous weight, am in a normal BMI, lift heavier weights on a regular basis, and have a greater cardio capacity. (I did not lift like I should have over the summer, and noticed after a while that the back issues were starting to return, but fixed that by strengthening my core once again).
Interestingly in Psalm 90, which was written around 500 B.C., the expectation is that 70 years is our life expectancy, and we might hit 80 with strength:
"The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."
The Psalm goes on to explain what the point of old age is:
"So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom."
This was written in the Bronze age, so the culture that produced it may have had a somewhat easier life than the hunter-gatherers (maybe???), but their medicine was just as primitive as a caveman's. For the older, nearsighted leader you posit, sure, some bloody, shortsighted cultures might have displaced him and killed him or her off, but plenty of other cultures would value their elders--their wisdom and knowledge--and give them places and positions of honor in their tribes. We are humans, not beasts, so an older person who has developed wisdom would know when they were failing physically and step aside (some may need more encouragement than others of course). A good example can be seen with Native Americans and the historic respect they gave to their tribal elders. A leader going blind would obviously not continue as a war chief, but could most certainly continue as a civil chief and/or an elder.
I think the aches and pains are just a function of the machinery wearing out over time--some might get it at 40, some at 60, etc. depending on their genetics and how their life has treated them--but maybe it is also a built-in signal, not to curl of and die, but to slow the heck down, start developing some wisdom, function as a living library and entertainment system for the tribe, keep a sharp eye on the camp, tend the fire, and teach all the little rugrats--your grandchildren and the grandchildren of your brothers-in-arms--all the things they need to know to carry on the strength and the beliefs of the tribe.8 -
My sense is that probability of aches and pains, in a super broad sense, increase with age, but both health habits and genetics have a big influence on what age, and which issues.
We have (possibly major) influence on outcomes, but not control.
If it matters, I'm 63.
And, as a cancer survivor and 20+ years a cancer widow, I'm simply happy and grateful when I wake up every day. Strong and energetic is a bonus.
<curmudgeon>
40 is just kids.
</curmudgeon>-9 -
If only we had some method that could test what happens to people living a traditional life style of hunter-gatherers, and what they're like in their 40s. Oh, right...
Sure, diseases wipe out a lot of people, and you'll definitely slow down with age, but people like the koi-san and other hunter-gathers suggest the declines we see in civilization are not pure genetic programming.0 -
This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
From your description, it doesn't sound like he does much. Would he even hit the minimum recommended? How long are his daily walks? Are they really daily or is it 3-4X per week? How often is occasional body weight exercises? Every January? I'm 48 and feel great. It does take a bit longer for me to recover, but no aches and/or pains that are not due to overuse/over-training.
I run 6-7 days a week (some days I double) and strength train 3x per week (2X per week when heavy training for key race).
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This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Did you by any chance suggest he see a doctor to rule out a medical cause for this onset of unexplained aches and pains? Autoimmune diseases spring to mind, but I'm sure there are lots of other potential medical issues this could be a symptom of.1 -
LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »Personally I've never felt fitter than I do now, I'm 50 in a few months (gaaa still can't get used to that number, mentally I'm somewhere in my 20's LOL)... but when I turned 40 I was overweight and when I think about it I remember one day at that age pulling a muscle in my neck washing the car! that was the first time I thought, hey body you are starting to show your age!
Also when I was heavier I had hip problems, sciatica and in agony for months at a time - losing weight sorted that out.
People do live longer now than yesteryear but we have so much more knowledge now, better diets in general and a good health service.
Good point. I feel better at 63 (because I'm stronger, fitter, lighter, more active, and healthier) than I did at 43.5 -
I'm also 63. No aches, no pains. My body protests a bit if I do a lot of high-impact stuff all at once, but when I stop doing it, it stops hurting. I bike and lift heavy things and pretty much rely on my body in the same way I ever did.5
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I was around 40 when degenerative osteoarthritis started becoming more painful in joints I injured in my 20's.
Life happens.
Adapt or get fat. 2 -
I was plagued by aches and pains from knackered joints in my 20s.
Those joints hurt much less now I'm in my 40s - because I am WAY, WAY fitter than I was in my 20s, and thus my muscles and tendons are able to take a lot of the strain off the joints themselves.2 -
This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You're forgetting (or just not realizing) that there's a higher risk of cephalopelvic disproportion (in short, the infants head being larger than their mother's pelvis) with people of small stature. Most 10-13 year olds fit that bill as they haven't stopped growings. This can, quite logically, lead to major complications and death to both the mother and the infant.
In short, 10-13 years old is not an optimal time for a girl to give birth.6 -
Oh I know the majority of my aches and pains are just from wear and tear. I tennis elbow and golfers elbow, patellar tendinitis in my left knee, a little biceps tendinitis and just the old "getting out of bed" creaks and cracks. So they're not unexplained.lynn_glenmont wrote: »This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Did you by any chance suggest he see a doctor to rule out a medical cause for this onset of unexplained aches and pains? Autoimmune diseases spring to mind, but I'm sure there are lots of other potential medical issues this could be a symptom of.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You're forgetting (or just not realizing) that there's a higher risk of cephalopelvic disproportion (in short, the infants head being larger than their mother's pelvis) with people of small stature. Most 10-13 year olds fit that bill as they haven't stopped growings. This can, quite logically, lead to major complications and death to both the mother and the infant.
In short, 10-13 years old is not an optimal time for a girl to give birth.
Also seems an age based on modern nutrition. I'm not sure about time of first menses in traditional cultures, but I believe records for the USA in the 1800s put the age more at 16.6 -
I'd also add that, based on looking back at historical statistics, evolution doesn't much care if it loses a bunch of mothers and children. It just makes sure to create plenty of extras along the way, so it can waste a few . . . quite a few, historically, in fact.
(Yes, I'm aware I'm anthropomorphizing evolution. It's metaphorical, folks.)7 -
two words. tom brady6
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I'd also add that, based on looking back at historical statistics, evolution doesn't much care if it loses a bunch of mothers and children. It just makes sure to create plenty of extras along the way, so it can waste a few . . . quite a few, historically, in fact.
(Yes, I'm aware I'm anthropomorphizing evolution. It's metaphorical, folks.)
The birth canal issue? New research is questioning if natural selection explains birth canal issues or if it is genetic drift. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/10/birth-canals-are-different-all-over-world-countering-long-held-evolutionary-theory1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »I'd also add that, based on looking back at historical statistics, evolution doesn't much care if it loses a bunch of mothers and children. It just makes sure to create plenty of extras along the way, so it can waste a few . . . quite a few, historically, in fact.
(Yes, I'm aware I'm anthropomorphizing evolution. It's metaphorical, folks.)
The birth canal issue? New research is questioning if natural selection explains birth canal issues or if it is genetic drift. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/10/birth-canals-are-different-all-over-world-countering-long-held-evolutionary-theory
Not specifically birth canal. Intending more to speak to the point that early motherhood is dangerous to mother and child (which it possibly is). History suggests that while we humans think maternal/child mortality a sad outcome to be avoided, history cheerfully rolls on despite pretty terrible results in that arena for centuries, possibly millennia.
If we breed early, and some of us survive, and someone survives long enough to raise those children who survive, until they can reach breeding age, we have a sustainable species, and sustainability in the stronger genetic lines as well.
The "wearing out" hypothesis for 40+ aches and pains has some credibility, in that scheme. Perhaps we moderns are living longer than needful (from an evolutionary standpoint), I dunno. As an individual (who is not a longevity/geriatric-health researcher), I think it's suboptimal to shift focus, more than fleetingly, from "what can I do to stay strong and healthy as long as possible" to "why am I having more aches and pains at 40". It's amusing to discuss, though.
I believe you're correct about earlier menses in the modern era, though. I haven't followed it closely, but had the impression that there's a lot of debate about why.
Edited: typo2 -
There's also the, if we breed often enough, there will be enough children who survive to help support the family. That implies that a. a bunch of infants and children were dying and b. if children started having children in their teens/preteens then they would have likely been having them into their adulthood as well.
That said, I'm not an anthropologist.1 -
Oh I know the majority of my aches and pains are just from wear and tear. I tennis elbow and golfers elbow, patellar tendinitis in my left knee, a little biceps tendinitis and just the old "getting out of bed" creaks and cracks. So they're not unexplained.lynn_glenmont wrote: »This was a discussion I had with a client just a few days ago. He wasn't overweight, he walked daily and did some minimal bodyweight exercise occasionally. He asked if I knew why aches and pains in joints, etc. start to really pick up around age 40 or so.
So just going back to my learning of physiology, the human body really hasn't changed for thousands of years. If we're looking at it objectively, like any other animal we instinctively look to procreate to carry our genes down line. In the early human years on Earth, all we did was what other animals did. Females start to have periods about 10-13 years old. Obviously at that time, they can get pregnant. Males are also high in testosterone around the same age. IF the goal was to just rear children and feed them, then this would be a good age because there's less complications with birth and one is still young enough and fleet enough to gather/kill for food and feed the family. Ev en today, most people's peak physical performance was in their teens and into their mid 20's or so. Without medical intervention, what is the average human life expectancy barring being killed by accident or murder back then? Probably right around 40-45 years old (a guess). So by the time you hit 40, the body is getting worn out. You don't run as fast and you likely don't see as well either. If you're the male leader of the group and can't lead as well, normally a younger male will challenge and likely beat you out. And so on and so on.
Of course now with medical intervention and technology, along with understanding how cells work, better option for food for complete nutrition (not just berries and freshly killed meat), and physical exercise, we've obviously been able to extend human life expectancy to much much higher years. But also look at how much less physical one becomes and how much more fragile we are in those later years.
So why 40? IMO (and based on evidence) it's because the human body likely wasn't made to last too much longer than that naturally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Did you by any chance suggest he see a doctor to rule out a medical cause for this onset of unexplained aches and pains? Autoimmune diseases spring to mind, but I'm sure there are lots of other potential medical issues this could be a symptom of.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
??? But you weren't talking about your aches and pains, you were talking about a client's aches and pains. Unless "asking for a client" is the new "asking for a friend"?4
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