Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Whey protein / supplement dangers?
JustinAnimal
Posts: 1,335 Member
in Debate Club
I'm looking for responses from experts. I'm sorry that I did not take the time to research this myself. I am with co-workers and we're trying to work through an issue.
We know of a someone who works with young adults and coaches them in weight lifting. That person generally gives their young adults creatine, whey protein, and I'm not sure what else in the way of supplements (I believe this person has given them pre-workout supplements, which always reminded me of being on crack and I quit taking after the first time).
First question: is this dangerous? I've heard of whey protein and other supplements taxing your liver or kidneys, and that this might not be a good idea for people, let's say, ranging from 12 to 18 years old.
Second question: could that be even more dangerous (or simply dangerous to begin with) if these young adults are either underfed, undernourished, or both. Could going in with an empty stomach, or stomach full of non-nutritive foods (not debating clean or not, but lots of sugary stuff in their bellies instead of complex carbs or high-protein foods [in non-supplement form])?
Thanks for the patience and my ignorance. Thanks for any potential responses. Trying to help young people, not be horribly obnoxious. I hope I didn't post this in the wrong forum.
We know of a someone who works with young adults and coaches them in weight lifting. That person generally gives their young adults creatine, whey protein, and I'm not sure what else in the way of supplements (I believe this person has given them pre-workout supplements, which always reminded me of being on crack and I quit taking after the first time).
First question: is this dangerous? I've heard of whey protein and other supplements taxing your liver or kidneys, and that this might not be a good idea for people, let's say, ranging from 12 to 18 years old.
Second question: could that be even more dangerous (or simply dangerous to begin with) if these young adults are either underfed, undernourished, or both. Could going in with an empty stomach, or stomach full of non-nutritive foods (not debating clean or not, but lots of sugary stuff in their bellies instead of complex carbs or high-protein foods [in non-supplement form])?
Thanks for the patience and my ignorance. Thanks for any potential responses. Trying to help young people, not be horribly obnoxious. I hope I didn't post this in the wrong forum.
2
Replies
-
I don't know the answer, but I'd be pissed if someone gave my 14-year-old son any type of supplement. Once he's 18, though, that's his choice.
I've used pre-workout, BCAA's, creatine and protein powder. The only one I still use is protein powder. The rest did nothing or I didn't like it.6 -
As young as 12? I stopped taking a pre-workout sup after a weeks time. I felt absolutely manic after taking it and can't imagine pre/early teens being given anything that might cause the same.
I'll bow out here as others have far more knowledge than I, but would just say I would personally call someone's attention to that.2 -
Sorry, not an expert. But whey protein is just a component of dairy, so I can't imagine why it would be dangerous. I also doubt what "types" of foods were in their stomachs at the time would make a difference.
Having said that, ITA with @quiksylver296 that if anyone was giving my kid supplements without my permission we would have a very unpleasant meeting about it.
Hopefully you get some more experience-grounded replies!6 -
He's just "giving" it to them? Whey is relatively expensive and so is any typical "pre-workout". Creatine is relatively cheap but supplying numerous individuals with it would still have a cost... are you sure the young adults aren't supplying their own product?
Anyhow - protein supplementation isn't going to be dangerous; especially in the context of a shake before or after a workout session. Most contain at most 25-30g of protein and I'd also wager that if those "young adults" are underfed/undernourished it could possibly be beneficial.
Creatine is already in many of the foods we eat. Most people who eat plenty of meat for example probably see little to no benefit in supplementation as they are already getting as much as their bodies can use from their normal diet. The dosage usually recommended of 5g a day after the loading phase isn't going to cause any issues unless that person has already heavily compromised kidneys - and then they would already be on a restrictive diet and protocol.
Pre-workouts? Hell no. I don't even think most adults need them. I'm not sure I'd ever compare them to a drug like crack... not really in the same ballpark but still not something I think any kid should be using - regardless how used to chugging Red Bulls or Monsters they may be.
I do absolutely think that the parents should know about all of it and give their permission first.7 -
My $0.02
As someone else pointed out, if these supplements (or anything else) are being given to kids without parental consent/approval, all bets are off.
However, there is nothing inherently wrong or dangerous about whey protein or creatine. Hell if the kids have as sugary, devoid-of-nutrient diets as you're talking about (don't get me started on the "clean" comment...), whey supplementation would probably be an improvement.
As far as pre-workouts go, you don't even know for sure the kids are being given that though, right? You just "believe" it. So, IF - and that is a conditional - IF this person is giving the kids pre-workout, you don't know what kind it is, whether it's stimulant-based or not, etc. While MOST pre-workout formulas are stimulant-based, certainly not all of them are. So there are a lot of "if's" in that.
IF a minor, IF no parental consent, IF given pre-workout, IF pre-workout contains stimulants...
Let's bear in mind also, supplements can get pricey. An average pre-workout is $30 for 30 servings. Whey can often be around $1/scoop. Creatine is dirt cheap. But let's say this person is giving all these kids multiple supplements...how many kids are they giving this stuff to? I know some really good-hearted coaches who will help kids on their teams who can't afford some necessities but how many people are gonna be dropping that much $$$ every practice day?
Also, is this actually a "weightlifting" coach or just a "strength training" coach? If these kids are actually involved in true weightlifting (read: Oly lifting), chances are they have some significant parental backing because freakin' shoes for Oly lifting start at around $100 and average $250+ a pair. Not to mention other gear, competition fees, etc. As opposed to just a group of kids who gets together and lifts weights after school sometimes?
There are just a lot of "eh....maybe..." factors going on in the OP that should be considered before making a sweeping judgment of what is going on here10 -
Per a quick google, creatine and preworkout are not recommended for anyone under 18; creatine says on the label and the general consensus seems to be that the level of stimulants in preworkout isn't great.
Whey is ok as long as it's necessary. If these kids are getting a balanced diet it's just bro-science that they need whey for some sick gainz. In all actuality, if they don't have a balanced diet and/or aren't getting sufficient protein from other food, it may actually be good for them.2 -
jseams1234 wrote: »He's just "giving" it to them? Whey is relatively expensive and so is any typical "pre-workout" product. Creatine is relatively cheap but supplying numerous individuals with it would still have a cost...
reminds me of how around Halloween all the stories about people putting MDMA and marijuana and all that into kids' candies to SNEAKILY give them drugs...that cost money...often significant amounts of money...I mean, people go to jail for it but they're just going to be throwing it around at random little kids for free? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.8 -
Dangerous? Likely no, but there is no objective evidence available to decide either way as no one will authorize testing on this population as they cannot enter into a legal agreement.
I'll default to my standard statement - if it is regulated as a "supplement", this means that there is no objective evidence to support that the product has any impact and holds minimal risk to the public.0 -
I don't think anyone has brought this up, but why does the coach feel that this is necessary?0
-
My girls have been taking whey
Protein since they were 2 years old,
Absolutely not issues what so ever 😂
4 -
I eat cottage cheese near daily. Good source of whey protein. Yogurt for the casein.
If all the kids ate getting is proteins, I wouldnt worry about it. Other additives may be an issue.0 -
The whey protein should be fine. My whey has supplement guidelines for all ages from toddler to elderly (1/2 scoop for toddlers, etc) including pregnant/breastfeeding women. I occasionally toss a scoop in their smoothies if it will be a meal replacement smoothie. They regularly consume large quantities of Greek-style yogurt (because they love it), which has plenty of protein.
There are non-stimulant based pre-workouts. Need more information. I'm assuming this coach either has parental involvement or some kind of signed consent form.2 -
I think it's more the pre-workout that had me concerned, although I thought I had read general concerns about the kidneys' ability to process any and all of it... of course, could be woo.
As for the why-is-coach-giving-away-expensive-supplements sentiment, I believe it's just getting the kids pumped about gym culture and lifting. This person is a P.E. teacher at a high school, but pretty much just does lifting with them.1 -
The P.E. teacher should not be dispensing any kind of supplements in the form of foods or pills. None.
Some People May Be Allergic to Whey Protein
Symptoms of allergy may include hives, rashes, facial swelling, throat and tongue swelling and a runny or stuffy nose. In some cases, whey allergy may trigger anaphylaxis, a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction.
The parents need to pay the school a visit or call the Superintendent.1 -
Whey protein is made out of milk, is milk dangerous ?1
-
I'm seriously skeptical he's giving away that stuff all the time to everyone. A 30 serving tub of pre-workout is 30 bucks, and it's really 10-15 servings for anyone with a caffeine tolerance2
-
Whey is food. No worries there.
Creatine is safe unless you’ve got kidney disease, however it needs to be taken 5g a day, every day - as a preworkout or lifting days only its fairly useless.
Preworkout supplements are a concern simply because you’ve no idea what he’s actually giving the students.1 -
If by young adult you mean teenagers, then there's no need for them to use creatine or protein supplements. As teenagers, they already have what no supplement will give them - youth. No supplement can match that. Generally, neither creatine or protein powders/drinks will hurt them if they are healthy.
One thing Id point out to the coach and the kids is to remember creatine only makes the muscles more powerful. it doesn't improve the strength/power of ligaments or tendons. Because of this there is a slight chance of injuries with creatine use. Its rare but I have met those who its happened to.
Bottom line. For young adults, just eat and exercise and let nature take care of the rest. Heres a review on creatine and kids if it helps: Do Kids Need Creatine?0 -
Creatine can become dangerous if you have kidney problems or dont drink adequate amounts of water while on it.2
-
I would love to know who disagreed with my statement. Do some research.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.2K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 895 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions