Keto vs calorie counting
Replies
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magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.4 -
I know many say both keto and calorie counting are one in the same, as someone will lose weight due to having a calorie deficit. The first month on keto people lose a large amout of water weight, but I'm seeing people each month lose 10-20 pounds a month vs calorie counting people are barely loosing 4-8 pounds a month. So wouldn't keto be a better weight loss option?
I actually have never heard a single person say keto and calorie counting are one and the same. That's because calorie counting and calorie deficit are not synonymous.
You can lose weight on keto without counting calories.
You can lose weight on any diet without counting calories.
You cannot lose weight on keto without being in a calorie deficit.
You cannot lose weight on any diet without being in a calorie deficit.
As others have said, losing 10-20 lbs/ month is not appropriate or desirable for most people.
Even losing 8 lbs in a month is not appropriate for everyone.
If you have less than 50 lbs to lose - a rate of loss of 1 lb/week is what you should be aiming for.
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Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »
Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.
No, the circle of people losing weight by counting calorie is entirely inside the circle for people losing limbs. That means that the only people losing weight by counting calories are people losing limbs.
Or is that not applied to any circle? It's just words hanging in the air?
In that case, circle around "people losing limbs" wouldn't clarify, it is the only way to make this a functional Venn diagram. But you still need that circle to overlap the carb and calorie counting because that happens. Some amputees count carbs, I'm sure of it.
As it is, as a Venn diagram, this thing is a HOT MESS.8 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »
Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.
No, the circle of people losing weight by counting calorie is entirely inside the circle for people losing limbs. That means that the only people losing weight by counting calories are people losing limbs.
Or is that not applied to any circle? It's just words hanging in the air?
In that case, circle around "people losing limbs" wouldn't clarify, it is the only way to make this a functional Venn diagram. But you still need that circle to overlap the carb and calorie counting because that happens. Some amputees count carbs, I'm sure of it.
As it is, as a Venn diagram, this thing is a HOT MESS.
Amputees aren't losing limbs, they're people who have lost limbs. I'm not sure how interesting the small intersection of people undergoing amputation (amputators?) in a calorie deficit is.
Though I suppose now that I brought up the losing fat from limbs, amputators are people losing body fat without a recomp or calorie deficit since their limb is bound to have fat in it. Or should amputation be looked at as a calorie deficit activity - the most extreme calorie burning activity?
Does this help?
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magnusthenerd wrote: »
Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.
No, the circle of people losing weight by counting calorie is entirely inside the circle for people losing limbs. That means that the only people losing weight by counting calories are people losing limbs.
Or is that not applied to any circle? It's just words hanging in the air?
In that case, circle around "people losing limbs" wouldn't clarify, it is the only way to make this a functional Venn diagram. But you still need that circle to overlap the carb and calorie counting because that happens. Some amputees count carbs, I'm sure of it.
As it is, as a Venn diagram, this thing is a HOT MESS.
Thank you! I can see enough of the intention to appreciate the joke, but someone doesn't understand how Venn diagrams work.
1) presumably all people losing limbs lose weight whether or not they eat at a deficit
2) it's possible to lose weight without losing a limb
3) some people who count calories and carbs fail to lose weight or to be in a deficit1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »
Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.
No, the circle of people losing weight by counting calorie is entirely inside the circle for people losing limbs. That means that the only people losing weight by counting calories are people losing limbs.
Or is that not applied to any circle? It's just words hanging in the air?
In that case, circle around "people losing limbs" wouldn't clarify, it is the only way to make this a functional Venn diagram. But you still need that circle to overlap the carb and calorie counting because that happens. Some amputees count carbs, I'm sure of it.
As it is, as a Venn diagram, this thing is a HOT MESS.
Think of this as a funny Venn diagram, not a functional Venn diagram7 -
kshama2001 wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.
No, the circle of people losing weight by counting calorie is entirely inside the circle for people losing limbs. That means that the only people losing weight by counting calories are people losing limbs.
Or is that not applied to any circle? It's just words hanging in the air?
In that case, circle around "people losing limbs" wouldn't clarify, it is the only way to make this a functional Venn diagram. But you still need that circle to overlap the carb and calorie counting because that happens. Some amputees count carbs, I'm sure of it.
As it is, as a Venn diagram, this thing is a HOT MESS.
Think of this as a funny Venn diagram, not a functional Venn diagram
They make non-funny Venn Diagrams?7 -
I didn't know people took up keto to deliberately reduce their libido!JeromeBarry1 wrote: »People who are fat-adapted, and wish to engage in athletic endeavors, can.
The whole advantage to properly fat-adapted athletes is that one does not hit the wall in North America nor bonk in the UK. The limit, therefore, of their body's ability to metabolize fat is defined as their daily need to do so.
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magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.
No, the circle of people losing weight by counting calorie is entirely inside the circle for people losing limbs. That means that the only people losing weight by counting calories are people losing limbs.
Or is that not applied to any circle? It's just words hanging in the air?
In that case, circle around "people losing limbs" wouldn't clarify, it is the only way to make this a functional Venn diagram. But you still need that circle to overlap the carb and calorie counting because that happens. Some amputees count carbs, I'm sure of it.
As it is, as a Venn diagram, this thing is a HOT MESS.
Amputees aren't losing limbs, they're people who have lost limbs. I'm not sure how interesting the small intersection of people undergoing amputation (amputators?) in a calorie deficit is.
Though I suppose now that I brought up the losing fat from limbs, amputators are people losing body fat without a recomp or calorie deficit since their limb is bound to have fat in it. Or should amputation be looked at as a calorie deficit activity - the most extreme calorie burning activity?
Does this help?
Okay, if you get to be pedantic about not calling a person an amputee until the limb is gone, then fine. I take that back. But I get to be pedantic, too.
It doesn't matter how interesting it is. This isn't statistics and probability. It's set theory. Your interest in the overlap doesn't matter, all that matters is if it exists. There are people currently on a low calorie diet while in the process of having a limb amputated or losing one due to gangrene/frostbite or some manner of necrotizing fasciitis etc.
In fact, if you are losing a limb from frostbite or gangrene or necrotizing fasciitis, you probably aren't eating very well at all due to the usual circumstances of these events so I would imagine a substantial fraction of the losing limbs circle would be inside the people in a calorie deficit circle.2 -
When you want to know the truth, go to a good source, here is what Layne Norton phD in Nutritional Science and imo weight loss expert had to say about it
https://youtu.be/9ZYQ6_35TLw
It is down to calories in and calories out, still works, not super healthy if you consume a lot of saturated fat, but if you can stick to that better than a regular diet, do what works for you.
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magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Well, technically, if you are losing fat, your limbs should be losing fat too, just not all of the limb.WinoGelato wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Best. Venn. Diagram. EVER.
I'm sorry but that Venn diagram implies that people losing weight by counting carbs represent a subset of people losing limbs. That's a terrible Venn diagram.
Yes, an ellipse around limbs would clarify, but there's also the label "People losing weight" crossing both boundaries that is supposed to be the label for the largest circle.
No, the circle of people losing weight by counting calorie is entirely inside the circle for people losing limbs. That means that the only people losing weight by counting calories are people losing limbs.
Or is that not applied to any circle? It's just words hanging in the air?
In that case, circle around "people losing limbs" wouldn't clarify, it is the only way to make this a functional Venn diagram. But you still need that circle to overlap the carb and calorie counting because that happens. Some amputees count carbs, I'm sure of it.
As it is, as a Venn diagram, this thing is a HOT MESS.
Amputees aren't losing limbs, they're people who have lost limbs. I'm not sure how interesting the small intersection of people undergoing amputation (amputators?) in a calorie deficit is.
Though I suppose now that I brought up the losing fat from limbs, amputators are people losing body fat without a recomp or calorie deficit since their limb is bound to have fat in it. Or should amputation be looked at as a calorie deficit activity - the most extreme calorie burning activity?
Does this help?
Okay, if you get to be pedantic about not calling a person an amputee until the limb is gone, then fine. I take that back. But I get to be pedantic, too.
It doesn't matter how interesting it is. This isn't statistics and probability. It's set theory. Your interest in the overlap doesn't matter, all that matters is if it exists. There are people currently on a low calorie diet while in the process of having a limb amputated or losing one due to gangrene/frostbite or some manner of necrotizing fasciitis etc.
In fact, if you are losing a limb from frostbite or gangrene or necrotizing fasciitis, you probably aren't eating very well at all due to the usual circumstances of these events so I would imagine a substantial fraction of the losing limbs circle would be inside the people in a calorie deficit circle.
Sure and the gangrene group might have an odd overlap with carb counting for diabetic reasons, but I don't think I have the pixels for that proportionality of the tendril snaking across that.
I also left off the giant eagles from the diagram since I'm waiting for them to swoop in and fix it.3 -
Something that will help you with this is to look up the biggest loser study. Doing keto its so hard for me to take in too much calories because i am satiated. I do try to stick to mfp goal though.2
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I'm one of those people who is doing keto and counting calories. I'm diabetic and keto has a marked effect on my blood sugar. I know that to lose weight I need to be in a calorie deficit, so I'm counting calories too. I don't think they're mutually exclusive, and I disagree with anyone who is saying in keto calories don't matter.7
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estherdragonbat wrote: »Keto is unnatural. Don't chase the newest fad diet thinking it is a shortcut. There are long term consequences to keto and it doesn't teach you how to eat in the long run for maintenance. Keto is for today 1200 calories is for life.
That's depressing. And false.
P.S. Not doing keto either, but I'm closing today on 1605 calories, and within 10lbs of goal weight.
No kidding. Very sad.
I'm about 4 years into mostly keto and eating around 2000 kcal a day. And still losing a bit each month.1 -
Leaving aside Venn diagrams and pedantics of where diabetic eagles fit into the picture.........
OP, I have never heard anyone say keto and counting calories are one and the same.
Counting calories is a tool to create a calorie deficit.
Keto is a way of eating - sure, a way that tends to be lower calorie than more carb containing diets and thus may create a deficit for some people without counting - but nevertheless a way of eating, not a tool for weight loss in itself.
The success of any method depends on creating a calorie deficit but the success does not depend on how many lb's one loses per month.
I ate far from keto or even low carb - and I lost at a rate of an average of 1/2 lb per week.
Does this make my diet a failure???
I would think not, since I only had 10 kg (around 22lb) to lose so losing it all in one month would of been a terrible plan.
(as it was, I lost it in 10 months - about a kg per month)
The best weight loss option is one that is sustainable for you and in which you create a calorie deficit to lose at the approriate rate for you.
That can be keto with/without calorie counting for some people - but I am not one of them.4 -
correction - leaving aside pedantry, not pedantics.
Before we have any pedants disecting my grammar.
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Keto and calorie counting are not one in the same. They are very, very different concepts that may or may not get you to the same place.1
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I'm one of those people who is doing keto and counting calories. I'm diabetic and keto has a marked effect on my blood sugar. I know that to lose weight I need to be in a calorie deficit, so I'm counting calories too. I don't think they're mutually exclusive, and I disagree with anyone who is saying in keto calories don't matter.
I agree. I also do Keto and count calories. I’ve lost weight strictly counting calories, I’ve lost weight on Keto and counting. The key to me is what kind of WOE are you going to stick to. I believe any sort of diet (and calorie deficit) works IF YOU STICK TO IT. Calorie counting, weight watchers, Keto, paleo, whatever... Any of those work if you stick to them. It’s a matter of actually sticking to it. I’ve lost enough weight now that I get asked fairly often how I’m doing it.. I’ll tell them, but will also always tell them that.
OP: Keto May or may not be for you. It’s not some magical diet where you drop a ton of weight. You still have to restrict calories, it’s just a way of eating that some people find more sustainable than other ways. I have over 100lbs to lose and I can tell you I’m not losing 10-20 pounds every month. I follow several people on Instagram and YouTube who do Keto and none of them are losing 10-20 pounds a month. I have a few friends at work on Keto and they also aren’t losing weight at that rate. 10-20 pounds is not normal or healthy... And whatever tales you’ve heard about that kind of weight loss should not be your determining factor on whether you try Keto or not.
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