Muscle gain while calorie counting; What is the logic behind plateau considering calories in/out?
Spadesheart
Posts: 479 Member
So since last year, in total I have lost 45 pounds. I gained 15 back, but since mid December I've managed to trim off 25. I am 6'3", as man, and have been losing around 2-3 pounds a week with the exception of a couple slowdowns, one of which is now.
When I do put in a solid effort (which has been thrice) my weight usually plateaus around this point, but I must say that I've been trying even harder this time. Along with the calorie reduction which amounts to 1200-1500 calories consumed daily, I've integrated a good deal of gym time. I go about 5-6 days a week, 4 days of which are weight training, and 1-2 days are fairly intense cardio where I'll burn 900-1160 calories according to the machine. I do not readjust my intake to account for the calories burned working out, and still consume 1200-1500 daily.
My weight loss stalled a week after I started doing proper weight training in January, but recovered in a week or two. This last week as I've been going to the gym, I've been noticing that I'm quite a bit stronger, 30-40% Vs the week prior, especially on my legs which I'm attributing to the resistance cardio on the elliptical and AMT. Unfortunately, my weight loss also seems to have stalled these last 2 weeks.
If weight loss is a matter of calories in Vs calories out, what is the logical explanation for weight loss stalling when clearly building muscle? Is it water retention or something? I use the sauna after every trip to help deal with that discrepancy. I'm just trying to understand why my weight loss isn't accelerating considering the extra expenditure. I'm not upset or discouraged or anything, I understand this is the long game, but I'm honestly just curious why this happens. I get that muscle is heavier than fat, but it wouldn't make sense considering that I'm not eating more anyway.
Any explanation would be appreciated! Thanks!
When I do put in a solid effort (which has been thrice) my weight usually plateaus around this point, but I must say that I've been trying even harder this time. Along with the calorie reduction which amounts to 1200-1500 calories consumed daily, I've integrated a good deal of gym time. I go about 5-6 days a week, 4 days of which are weight training, and 1-2 days are fairly intense cardio where I'll burn 900-1160 calories according to the machine. I do not readjust my intake to account for the calories burned working out, and still consume 1200-1500 daily.
My weight loss stalled a week after I started doing proper weight training in January, but recovered in a week or two. This last week as I've been going to the gym, I've been noticing that I'm quite a bit stronger, 30-40% Vs the week prior, especially on my legs which I'm attributing to the resistance cardio on the elliptical and AMT. Unfortunately, my weight loss also seems to have stalled these last 2 weeks.
If weight loss is a matter of calories in Vs calories out, what is the logical explanation for weight loss stalling when clearly building muscle? Is it water retention or something? I use the sauna after every trip to help deal with that discrepancy. I'm just trying to understand why my weight loss isn't accelerating considering the extra expenditure. I'm not upset or discouraged or anything, I understand this is the long game, but I'm honestly just curious why this happens. I get that muscle is heavier than fat, but it wouldn't make sense considering that I'm not eating more anyway.
Any explanation would be appreciated! Thanks!
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Replies
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If I’m reading correctly, you’re netting like 300 calories a day (based on not eating your exercise calories back?).
Also, how do you know you’re burning so many calories? How are you measuring your calorie intake? Like on a food scale? I’m surprised you’re even functioning based on your calculations.4 -
So many things....
- As a tall man, you should not be consuming fewer than 1500 calories per day and probably need a fair bit more than that to properly fuel your organs.
- It is generally recommended not to lose more than 1% of your body weight per week which is no more than 2lbs/week for most people.
- The way MFP works, you are supposed to eat back your exercise calories in order to properly fuel your body for basic organ function and muscle repair.
- New or increased exercise can lead to water retention for muscle repair masking weight loss.
- You do not gain muscle while losing weight, but you can increase strength and help minimize muscle loss.
- 2 weeks with no loss is not a plateau. Come back if it has been at least 6 weeks with no loss and you are confident in all of your logging including using a food scale.
- As body weight decreases, so do your caloric needs. I DO NOT recommend you drop your calories though since it sounds like you could already be severely undereating.
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I can't get past the fact that you are seriously undereating (if your calories are accurate). You are headed down a bad path.
Males should eat at least 1500 calories net. Since you are much taller than the average male, 1500 is too low for you.
I'm a 44 yoa female, 5'9', and I can lose on 2000 calories per day.3 -
You are not going to gain muscle mass based on your current very high deficits. You have probably been losing a good deal of muscle mass along the way though, even if you think you have been getting stronger.
This is not a healthy path to be on. Based on your exercise and size I wouldn't eat anything less than 2000 calories a day and that is probably pushing it.1 -
Spadesheart wrote: »So since last year, in total I have lost 45 pounds. I gained 15 back, but since mid December I've managed to trim off 25. I am 6'3", as man, and have been losing around 2-3 pounds a week with the exception of a couple slowdowns, one of which is now.
When I do put in a solid effort (which has been thrice) my weight usually plateaus around this point, but I must say that I've been trying even harder this time. Along with the calorie reduction which amounts to 1200-1500 calories consumed daily, I've integrated a good deal of gym time. I go about 5-6 days a week, 4 days of which are weight training, and 1-2 days are fairly intense cardio where I'll burn 900-1160 calories according to the machine. I do not readjust my intake to account for the calories burned working out, and still consume 1200-1500 daily.
My weight loss stalled a week after I started doing proper weight training in January, but recovered in a week or two. This last week as I've been going to the gym, I've been noticing that I'm quite a bit stronger, 30-40% Vs the week prior, especially on my legs which I'm attributing to the resistance cardio on the elliptical and AMT. Unfortunately, my weight loss also seems to have stalled these last 2 weeks.
If weight loss is a matter of calories in Vs calories out, what is the logical explanation for weight loss stalling when clearly building muscle? Is it water retention or something? I use the sauna after every trip to help deal with that discrepancy. I'm just trying to understand why my weight loss isn't accelerating considering the extra expenditure. I'm not upset or discouraged or anything, I understand this is the long game, but I'm honestly just curious why this happens. I get that muscle is heavier than fat, but it wouldn't make sense considering that I'm not eating more anyway.
Any explanation would be appreciated! Thanks!
Slowdowns happen because the number on the scale is not just the weight of your fat, it's the weight of everything else in your body too, most of which you have no control over, mostly water weight which fluctuates constantly. It is also true that logging food and exercise is a human endeavor, which means it's not perfect, so while you may think you are in a specific deficit every day, logging inaccuracies will affect your results.
Your net calories are almost certainly off. A toddler wouldn't be able to survive on the calories you are quoting. Having said that, unless you still have 75+ lbs to lose and are currently 250lbs or more, losing 2-3 lbs per week is very aggressive, and you risk losing way more muscle than you would want, especially considering all the exercise you are doing.
Check out these posts when you get a chance:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10084670/it-is-unlikely-that-you-will-lose-weight-consistently-i-e-weight-loss-is-not-linear/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1234699/logging-accurately-step-by-step-guide/p12 -
If I’m reading correctly, you’re netting like 300 calories a day (based on not eating your exercise calories back?).
Also, how do you know you’re burning so many calories? How are you measuring your calorie intake? Like on a food scale? I’m surprised you’re even functioning based on your calculations.
Only up to 2 days per week while doing cardio, which is likely inaccurate regardless. It's what the machine tells me. The rest is weight training. Calorie intake is measured while counting in the recipe, or weighing.
Honestly I haven't been finding it that hard. I imagine my intake is accurate within 20%.0 -
So many things....
- As a tall man, you should not be consuming fewer than 1500 calories per day and probably need a fair bit more than that to properly fuel your organs.
- It is generally recommended not to lose more than 1% of your body weight per week which is no more than 2lbs/week for most people.
- The way MFP works, you are supposed to eat back your exercise calories in order to properly fuel your body for basic organ function and muscle repair.
- New or increased exercise can lead to water retention for muscle repair masking weight loss.
- You do not gain muscle while losing weight, but you can increase strength and help minimize muscle loss.
- 2 weeks with no loss is not a plateau. Come back if it has been at least 6 weeks with no loss and you are confident in all of your logging including using a food scale.
- As body weight decreases, so do your caloric needs. I DO NOT recommend you drop your calories though since it sounds like you could already be severely undereating.
The increase in muscle size is measurable though. My legs and arms are considerably more muscular, the legs measurably so as they aren't thick (I'm more top heavy.)
Currently 225.1 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »I can't get past the fact that you are seriously undereating (if your calories are accurate). You are headed down a bad path.
Males should eat at least 1500 calories net. Since you are much taller than the average male, 1500 is too low for you.
I'm a 44 yoa female, 5'9', and I can lose on 2000 calories per day.
You look tough as nails! Congrats!
I'm going a bit hard, clearly. But I know I won't do it unless I do. There have been some healthy results though; my resting heart rate has gone down like 20 BPM, and my blood pressure too.
I really haven't been finding the diet too hard to maintain. I'm really surprised by the really strong response to the contrary.
The calories are likely accurate within 20% +/-. I measure while making the recipes, and weigh as well.0 -
Spadesheart wrote: »So many things....
- As a tall man, you should not be consuming fewer than 1500 calories per day and probably need a fair bit more than that to properly fuel your organs.
- It is generally recommended not to lose more than 1% of your body weight per week which is no more than 2lbs/week for most people.
- The way MFP works, you are supposed to eat back your exercise calories in order to properly fuel your body for basic organ function and muscle repair.
- New or increased exercise can lead to water retention for muscle repair masking weight loss.
- You do not gain muscle while losing weight, but you can increase strength and help minimize muscle loss.
- 2 weeks with no loss is not a plateau. Come back if it has been at least 6 weeks with no loss and you are confident in all of your logging including using a food scale.
- As body weight decreases, so do your caloric needs. I DO NOT recommend you drop your calories though since it sounds like you could already be severely undereating.
The increase in muscle size is measurable though. My legs and arms are considerably more muscular, the legs measurably so as they aren't thick (I'm more top heavy.)
Currently 225.
Size increase is likely water retention for muscle repair. Strength increase is neuromuscular adaptation, which can happen pretty fast for new lifters.
Under ideal circumstances, a young man gaining half a pound to a pound of muscle a week would be getting a really good result. Ideal circumstances include a calorie surplus (not a crazy-high calorie deficit), and sufficient protein (questionably achievable on very low calories), among other things. You aren't gaining much if any muscle, certainly not enough to outpace any reasonable rate of fat loss.
If what you're saying about intake and calorie burn is even remotely accurate, you're severely undereating, and about to hit a big ol' wall you can't yet see in front of you.
As a 5'5" 59 year old woman, I lost most of 50 pounds (and fairly quickly) on more calories than you say you're currently netting. I ate 1200 plus exercise for a while, but got weak and fatigued; it took several weeks to recover. I don't recommend fast loss.
Stress, physical and mental, also can cause water retention. That may be in play here in addition to factors others have mentioned.
5 -
Spadesheart wrote: »So many things....
- As a tall man, you should not be consuming fewer than 1500 calories per day and probably need a fair bit more than that to properly fuel your organs.
- It is generally recommended not to lose more than 1% of your body weight per week which is no more than 2lbs/week for most people.
- The way MFP works, you are supposed to eat back your exercise calories in order to properly fuel your body for basic organ function and muscle repair.
- New or increased exercise can lead to water retention for muscle repair masking weight loss.
- You do not gain muscle while losing weight, but you can increase strength and help minimize muscle loss.
- 2 weeks with no loss is not a plateau. Come back if it has been at least 6 weeks with no loss and you are confident in all of your logging including using a food scale.
- As body weight decreases, so do your caloric needs. I DO NOT recommend you drop your calories though since it sounds like you could already be severely undereating.
The increase in muscle size is measurable though. My legs and arms are considerably more muscular, the legs measurably so as they aren't thick (I'm more top heavy.)
Currently 225.
Size increase is likely water retention for muscle repair. Strength increase is neuromuscular adaptation, which can happen pretty fast for new lifters.
Under ideal circumstances, a young man gaining half a pound to a pound of muscle a week would be getting a really good result. Ideal circumstances include a calorie surplus (not a crazy-high calorie deficit), and sufficient protein (questionably achievable on very low calories), among other things. You aren't gaining much if any muscle, certainly not enough to outpace any reasonable rate of fat loss.
If what you're saying about intake and calorie burn is even remotely accurate, you're severely undereating, and about to hit a big ol' wall you can't yet see in front of you.
As a 5'5" 59 year old woman, I lost most of 50 pounds (and fairly quickly) on more calories than you say you're currently netting. I ate 1200 plus exercise for a while, but got weak and fatigued; it took several weeks to recover. I don't recommend fast loss.
Stress, physical and mental, also can cause water retention. That may be in play here in addition to factors others have mentioned.
This is good information to know! A little sad as it may be.
Sigh. The diet has been working so well so far, and I haven't been finding it terribly difficult. I was really surprised by the degree of alarm here. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to change it up until I hit the goal weight, which is about another 30 pounds.0 -
Definitely don't go under 1200 calories. As others have mentioned you may need more. But plateaus are normal! Just stick to it and you'll eventually see a "whoosh!" I feel like a lot of people have experienced being able to trigger a whoosh by either eating at maintenance calories instead of at a deficit or having a cheat meal with carbs. Not sure the science behind it but it seems to work! I think it was proposed that the fat cells are holding onto water to try and maintain their shape/volume, then when they get fed they essentially say "I'm fed, I don't need this water anymore!" And release it all.2
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Why do you use the sauna after your workouts ?
You want that extra water... it's how your body sends glycogen and electrolytes through your muscles.
You seem "number on the scale obsessed" ... 90% of us get that way sometimes; me included, so I don't mean it judgey.
But I would encourage you to embrace water-weight. When lifting your muscles will hold water to help them recharge and heal. Its a good thing. No need to sauna after the workouts.
What are your goals ? To look and feel better? Let your body hold some water whome lifting.
If you are crashing weight to make a wrestling match I'd be on "team sauna".
Last note: you can gain easily 50% strength without gaining any muscle mass. The muscles only activate a % of the fibers all at once, when you lift, you start to get better at USING the muscle you have... and, as above, water.
There's a near zero chance you have gained any Dry Lean Mass4 -
Austinbutikofer wrote: »Definitely don't go under 1200 calories. As others have mentioned you may need more. But plateaus are normal! Just stick to it and you'll eventually see a "whoosh!" I feel like a lot of people have experienced being able to trigger a whoosh by either eating at maintenance calories instead of at a deficit or having a cheat meal with carbs. Not sure the science behind it but it seems to work! I think it was proposed that the fat cells are holding onto water to try and maintain their shape/volume, then when they get fed they essentially say "I'm fed, I don't need this water anymore!" And release it all.
I am trying my best, and do eat more if I average under 1200 for sure. Thanks for your reply!
I have a cheat day when I reach goals, solid reward, even if I can't eat as much anymore hahaha.
Maybe when I hit 215, I'll do a week of just maintainence to reset my body a bit.0 -
Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »Why do you use the sauna after your workouts ?
You want that extra water... it's how your body sends glycogen and electrolytes through your muscles.
You seem "number on the scale obsessed" ... 90% of us get that way sometimes; me included, so I don't mean it judgey.
But I would encourage you to embrace water-weight. When lifting your muscles will hold water to help them recharge and heal. Its a good thing. No need to sauna after the workouts.
What are your goals ? To look and feel better? Let your body hold some water whome lifting.
If you are crashing weight to make a wrestling match I'd be on "team sauna".
Last note: you can gain easily 50% strength without gaining any muscle mass. The muscles only activate a % of the fibers all at once, when you lift, you start to get better at USING the muscle you have... and, as above, water.
There's a near zero chance you have gained any Dry Lean Mass
I absolutely am right now. Literally 5 pounds from now will be the lightest I've ever been as an adult, I've been really waiting to get there with baited breath. This is usu5 where I plateau or give up, so I've been putting in a good deal of extra effort.
Well, at least there's some good conditioning happening for when I do hit goal weight, then I can do a bit of healthy bulking if I so choose, and probably have an easier time.
Will definitely drink more water, moving forward.0
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