How to not mess up hormones when starting IF?
sanda4930
Posts: 4 Member
Advise is much appreciated! x
10
Replies
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Do you have a link for IF messing up hormones so we can get some context and vet your source?7
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Why would IF mess up your hormones?3
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I keep seeing this pop up. Does anyone have concrete sources/research on this? I don't do IF but I am very curious if there is any truth to it affecting hormones in women.3
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You do realize that everyone intermittently fasts, right? If you were to skip breakfast, which is one of the more common things to do, you would likely only be adding 4 or so hours to what you do normally.6
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This is nonsense. Everyone "fasts." Some people just fast longer than others.8
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Why on earth would someone "woo" someone for asking a question and trying to get more information?
@sanda4930 I did a search, and yes, there is a bunch of stuff out on the internet about IF and hormones. I just did a quick read through, and of the information I saw, there was some research out there about hormonal changes during IF, but, and that's a Sir-Mix-A-Lot sized but, many of the hormone claims I saw were kind of tangentially related. It was a lot of "we know xyz hormones show changes based on this actual research, and we know these other hormones have a connection to the xyz hormone changes, so we are saying these other hormones are showing changes as well." I didn't see a lot of research showing an actual researched correlation.
I wouldn't worry too much about the hormone aspect unless you have a medical history of issues with hormone changes, in which case you should be talking to your doctor. Even if you are observing some changes when you start IF, there are a lot of different protocols out there you can try, it's not a one size fits all.18 -
I've done intermittent fasting for 6 months through the program Faster Way to Fat Loss and have not had any issues at all. My biggest advice is to make sure you get good quality food during the time you do eat, and hitting your macros in the right proportion.5
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I keep seeing this pop up. Does anyone have concrete sources/research on this? I don't do IF but I am very curious if there is any truth to it affecting hormones in women.
I'm sure I once saw a link on here saying that women are better off doing 10/14 but I can't find it anywhere...1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I'm sure I once saw a link on here saying that women are better off doing 10/14 but I can't find it anywhere...
I thought the same and am relatively certain I saw it on Lyle McDonald's site at one point but I've combed the site to look for it but can't find it.
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I believe it was also the OP. But I've seen it mentioned several times by many different people.
I do remember Lyle McDonald mentioning something in his women's book about fasting leading to some issues in women but he did mention there was limited research @KickboxFanatic and @TavistockToad3 -
I believe it was also the OP. But I've seen it mentioned several times by many different people.
I do remember Lyle McDonald mentioning something in his women's book about fasting leading to some issues in women but he did mention there was limited research @KickboxFanatic and @TavistockToad
It was a couple of years ago I first heard it... I'll have a Google...2 -
I believe it was also the OP. But I've seen it mentioned several times by many different people.
I do remember Lyle McDonald mentioning something in his women's book about fasting leading to some issues in women but he did mention there was limited research @KickboxFanatic and @TavistockToad
Martin Berkhan talked about it as part of leangains but I believe that was based on his work with women, more so than actual research.1 -
5
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Why on earth would someone "woo" someone for asking a question and trying to get more information?
@sanda4930 I did a search, and yes, there is a bunch of stuff out on the internet about IF and hormones. I just did a quick read through, and of the information I saw, there was some research out there about hormonal changes during IF, but, and that's a Sir-Mix-A-Lot sized but, many of the hormone claims I saw were kind of tangentially related. It was a lot of "we know xyz hormones show changes based on this actual research, and we know these other hormones have a connection to the xyz hormone changes, so we are saying these other hormones are showing changes as well." I didn't see a lot of research showing an actual researched correlation.
I wouldn't worry too much about the hormone aspect unless you have a medical history of issues with hormone changes, in which case you should be talking to your doctor. Even if you are observing some changes when you start IF, there are a lot of different protocols out there you can try, it's not a one size fits all.
I would guess that people are trying to express that they don't believe IF has an impact on hormones, but that's just a guess. Since you can see the who hit woo, you could PM them and ask.
OP, this:TavistockToad wrote: »
suggests that the science is not yet transferred to people. Unless you have some additional information that we could look at more closely, I wouldn't worry about it at this point. If you have medical conditions that may be influenced by IF, then I suggest seeing your doctor and asking for a referral to a Registered Dietician to ensure you are meeting your medical needs along with your nutritional needs.5 -
I believe it was also the OP. But I've seen it mentioned several times by many different people.
I do remember Lyle McDonald mentioning something in his women's book about fasting leading to some issues in women but he did mention there was limited research @KickboxFanatic and @TavistockToad
Martin Bekham talked about it as part of leangains but I believe that was based on his work with women, more so than actual research.
Thanks @psuLemon I will check it out.
I think at the end of the day if you are fasting as a female and you notice your cycles or stress levels being affected, I would reconsider or experiment with decreasing the fasting window. I am sure there are many variables and there is no strict guideline, just as I would imagine how leanness and bodyfat% will affect women's hormones at different levels.2 -
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I don’t fast (except for religious reasons, so not daily), so I have no real horse in this race, but I did stumble across this article the other day that may be helpful
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-intermittent-fasting/0 -
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-for-women#health-benefits
Check out the section under Intermittent Fasting May Affect Men and Women Differently. Not sure if this information is correct but they included links to their source of data.0 -
I saw from your other post, OP, that you want to lose without counting calories. Can I suggest that you not use IF as your method of creating a deficit unless you're maintaining at your current weight? I've had success with IF and counting calories, and I have definitely gained weight while doing IF when not paying attention. A shortened eating window won't work if you're still eating too much. The magic is in the calorie deficit, you've got to figure out a good way for you to create it.5
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I think that I've seen people pretty much in agreement with the following:
1) many of the studies of the benefits of intermittent fasting were rat studies.
1a) Did you know that rat/mouse students are usually done only on male animals?
2) of the studies done in human beings, many were done only on men and/or postmenopausal women
3) the few studies that have included female organisms have found inconsistent results for women, many of them don't show positive results and some do show possible negative results for women/female mice.
That's not exactly "woo."5 -
Based on my experience, the first time I practiced IF during Lent 2009, I lost 17 lbs. in 40 days not counting calories. What I learned from that experience is how hard it is to eat the calories one can eat in a normal eating pattern unless you're practicing gluttony. And, if you are practicing gluttony, you're not going to achieve weight loss no matter what eating schedule protocol you follow.
There are some credible studies, in my opinion about IF that don't involve rats. I've shared at least one in the past, one that involved men who regular lifted weights for strength training. I read the study carefully and thought it was convincing pro-IF. Of course, there are studies that support the opposite. It's the nature of research and will always be.
Bottom line, it's rather easy to eat less with a restricted feeding window, unless you're a glutton.12 -
pierinifitness wrote: »Based on my experience, the first time I practiced IF during Lent 2009, I lost 17 lbs. in 40 days not counting calories. What I learned from that experience is how hard it is to eat the calories one can eat in a normal eating pattern unless you're practicing gluttony. And, if you are practicing gluttony, you're not going to achieve weight loss no matter what eating schedule protocol you follow.
There are some credible studies, in my opinion about IF that don't involve rats. I've shared at least one in the past, one that involved men who regular lifted weights for strength training. I read the study carefully and thought it was convincing pro-IF. Of course, there are studies that support the opposite. It's the nature of research and will always be.
Bottom line, it's rather easy to eat less with a restricted feeding window, unless you're a glutton.
What have you found in relation to women's hormones?3 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »pierinifitness wrote: »Based on my experience, the first time I practiced IF during Lent 2009, I lost 17 lbs. in 40 days not counting calories. What I learned from that experience is how hard it is to eat the calories one can eat in a normal eating pattern unless you're practicing gluttony. And, if you are practicing gluttony, you're not going to achieve weight loss no matter what eating schedule protocol you follow.
There are some credible studies, in my opinion about IF that don't involve rats. I've shared at least one in the past, one that involved men who regular lifted weights for strength training. I read the study carefully and thought it was convincing pro-IF. Of course, there are studies that support the opposite. It's the nature of research and will always be.
Bottom line, it's rather easy to eat less with a restricted feeding window, unless you're a glutton.
What have you found in relation to women's hormones?
I need to know too.
To add, I am not a glutton. What do you mean by glutton? that is a derogatory term.3 -
pierinifitness wrote: »Based on my experience, the first time I practiced IF during Lent 2009, I lost 17 lbs. in 40 days not counting calories. What I learned from that experience is how hard it is to eat the calories one can eat in a normal eating pattern unless you're practicing gluttony. And, if you are practicing gluttony, you're not going to achieve weight loss no matter what eating schedule protocol you follow.
There are some credible studies, in my opinion about IF that don't involve rats. I've shared at least one in the past, one that involved men who regular lifted weights for strength training. I read the study carefully and thought it was convincing pro-IF. Of course, there are studies that support the opposite. It's the nature of research and will always be.
Bottom line, it's rather easy to eat less with a restricted feeding window, unless you're a glutton.
WHOA! Have you never encountered calorie dense food before?
Different people have different amounts of calories available to them. It is ridiculous to assert that eating past your deficit in a small window of time requires gluttony. A single entree from some restaurants will do it for some people and that is hardly binge eating. Also many people, myself included, practice high volume low calorie consumption for part of our calories. It is not uncommon for me to eat over 2 pounds of vegetables and nearly a pound of fish for lunch. Is that gluttony? I could easily replace those low calorie options with something higher and sail right past my maintenance for the day.
While I don't hold myself to some sort of OMAD protocol I do eat almost all of my daily calories for lunch and it still very much requires mindful eating which I do with the assistance of calorie counting.
If you have a very high TDEE and a restricted diet maybe it would require some level of gluttony for you but I don't think you should make generalizations like gluttony about other people.13 -
pierinifitness wrote: »Based on my experience, the first time I practiced IF during Lent 2009, I lost 17 lbs. in 40 days not counting calories. What I learned from that experience is how hard it is to eat the calories one can eat in a normal eating pattern unless you're practicing gluttony. And, if you are practicing gluttony, you're not going to achieve weight loss no matter what eating schedule protocol you follow.
There are some credible studies, in my opinion about IF that don't involve rats. I've shared at least one in the past, one that involved men who regular lifted weights for strength training. I read the study carefully and thought it was convincing pro-IF. Of course, there are studies that support the opposite. It's the nature of research and will always be.
Bottom line, it's rather easy to eat less with a restricted feeding window, unless you're a glutton.
Eh, I seriously doubt it's hard to overeat in a 18:6 pattern for a lot of people. That's really just noon to 6, which is the main time a lot of people eat without a window. Same for any other window one might pick. I find it easier to eat 3 (sometimes 2) meals a day, however spread, than to have snacking within any period, since I find meals filling and grazing not. There are people who are exactly the opposite. Does that make them the glutton, or me? Or does it mean we are all smart to find what works for us.
I can't imagine eating all my calories in one meal (for anything but an extreme deficit) and for me it would mean I'd have to be stuffing myself uncomfortably or eating a nutritionally poor diet vs what I normally eat -- does that mean I'm more or less of a glutton than someone who enjoys OMAD?
Maybe it's better not to impose offensive judgments on people because a particular eating strategy works better or worse for them. I find eating 3 meals a day a very easy pattern to maintain on but I don't call people who find other patterns easier "gluttons." Weird that someone feels the need to do that kind of thing.14 -
pierinifitness wrote: »Based on my experience, the first time I practiced IF during Lent 2009, I lost 17 lbs. in 40 days not counting calories. What I learned from that experience is how hard it is to eat the calories one can eat in a normal eating pattern unless you're practicing gluttony. And, if you are practicing gluttony, you're not going to achieve weight loss no matter what eating schedule protocol you follow.
There are some credible studies, in my opinion about IF that don't involve rats. I've shared at least one in the past, one that involved men who regular lifted weights for strength training. I read the study carefully and thought it was convincing pro-IF. Of course, there are studies that support the opposite. It's the nature of research and will always be.
Bottom line, it's rather easy to eat less with a restricted feeding window, unless you're a glutton.
My TDEE is around 1800 cals. So you're saying I must be a glutton if I can eat 1800 calories between noon and six?
The stereotype of overweight people having to be undisciplined, lazy, and/or gluttonous is unnecessarily cruel and counterproductive.16 -
pierinifitness wrote: »Based on my experience, the first time I practiced IF during Lent 2009, I lost 17 lbs. in 40 days not counting calories. What I learned from that experience is how hard it is to eat the calories one can eat in a normal eating pattern unless you're practicing gluttony. And, if you are practicing gluttony, you're not going to achieve weight loss no matter what eating schedule protocol you follow.
There are some credible studies, in my opinion about IF that don't involve rats. I've shared at least one in the past, one that involved men who regular lifted weights for strength training. I read the study carefully and thought it was convincing pro-IF. Of course, there are studies that support the opposite. It's the nature of research and will always be.
Bottom line, it's rather easy to eat less with a restricted feeding window, unless you're a glutton.
You lost weight therefore anyone who doesn't is a glutton. That's exactly what the short version of this post reads. I would much rather see members posting information about how to stay within their calorie goals regardless of their way of eating and/or choices of volume or calorie dense foods.
Your post does nothing but enforce a mind set geared towards an eating disorder.15 -
Came back here for a visit after my post yesterday and was surprised at all my "fan mail" post replies. It seems like my choice of the glutton work struck a nerve with some. I think I have a good understanding of the glutton word but the posts here had me doubting. So, I decided to do an internet search and confirm a good definition. This is what I found:
Gluttony - habitual greed or excess in eating - so, a glutton is one who practices gluttony.
I'm a glutton in remission. Despite my first adult fitness, health and wellness journey in my mid 30's (in the late 1980's) and keeping a good bodyweight for over 35 years, I did fall off the wagon a couple years ago and slowly added 35 lbs. that weren't necessary. I did so by dropping my guard and being a glutton, eating in excess of what my body needed to maintain a healthy weight. Consequently, I gained weight, as in excessive weight. It's a perfect example of CICO, something that is constantly preached here at MFP. And, everyone who has gained excessive weight - 25. lbs. 50 lb. 100 lbs. or hundreds of lbs. did so by a habitual greed or excess in eating. In other words, being a glutton and practicing gluttony.
Sometimes, the truth hurts but words have a precise meaning, generally, and I chose to be as precise as I could when making my comments yesterday.
Not trying to be politically correct, just frank. It doesn't mean that someone who's a glutton is a bad person, just that they're a glutton. I was a glutton but now my gluttony is in remission. Could I become a glutton again. You betcha and probably so could everyone here who is on a path of achieving their ideal weight or who have done so by diligently practicing eating the correct amount of food, of managing what can be an unregulated desire to eat an excessive amount of food for whatever reason.
Now, someone asked me what my comment had to do about female hormones. I probably got off original topic as did others and for that I ask for your forgiveness. But, and this will result in more stones being thrown at me, this female hormone stuff is not a free card to hang your hat on with regard to weight gain. Men have hormones too. You don't hear me going around blaming my weight gain on my hormones. Nope, it's because I am or was a glutton. Now given, hormones can wreck havoc with one's body and us guys can have our testosterone which can contribute to us being ballistic at times, even get into fights, exhibit road rage, you name it. We all have a responsibility to manage our emotions and thoughts and be responsible for our conduct as a human being. If I eat like a glutton, I'll gain weight and I won't be blaming it on my hormones. Nor will I cry about it because I've gained a few lbs. and attribute it to my hormones. This hormone thing blame game is a woo at it's finest.
I'm practicing OMAD right now for Lent 2019 and am eating during a 2-hour window. Since I don't have any additional weight that I choose to lose, I'm eating enough calories to maintain my weight and I have thus far with three weeks under my belt. Now, if I was a glutton and practicing OMAD, which is possible, I'd gain weight. CICO is CICO as so many here constantly remind others. And, yes I agree, that it's possible to be a glutton during a short feeding window.
I've got an action=packed work day so won't be able to check back and reply to any new comments. Enjoy your day.
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@pierinifitness this was more in regards to IF and female hormones.... how long periods without food could potentially affect menstrual cycles and fertility. No one is blaming anything on weight gain. I would love to be able to control and manage my fertility with my weight alone. Oh how lovely that would be!!
And by your definition I am a glutton every time I bulk (and have to eat a excessive amount of food despite being full all the time) otherwise I would not look how I do in my profile photo. So I am thankful for the ability to do that.8
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