Sounds to me like a good rest would do your body and your mind far more good than pumping iron.
Stress is not good for you - you seem to me at least a bit stressed and possibly too self-imposed goal orientated rather than listening to what your body actually needs.
That tortoise won the race...and enjoyed the view on the way no doubt!
Good luck with those long work days
Oh I'm definitely goal oriented, I just want to get this over with so I can move on with the next thing, and maintain on the way down as best as I can. My life is not super stressful right now, and I have a lot of time other than on these few super long work days, so I thought I'd put in a really good effort.
You have 30lbs to lose no? That's more or less the number of pounds that I have left until I hit my goal weight (more like 25 but close enough), though I appear to be taking a less aggressive approach with regards to calories. What exactly are you waiting to do that you can't do now? The way you're at it, you're on a path to crashing and burning by way of not consuming enough calories to sustain your exercising.
Don't weight training 5 days a week is a recipe to plateau right away and be exhausted without making any real gains. A body needs rest.
What's going to happen when you reach your goal? For most of us, losing weight slowly is a useful learning experience, it helps recalibrate your sense of what a reasonable diet is. This is something you're going to need once you get to your goal weight of you want to stay there.
I'm not much of a morning person either, but since I know I'll be physically tired at the end of the day and would not want to exercise at that time, I've gotten in the habit of exercising within 15 minutes of waking up. I do accordingly work out at home with a calisthenics routine, and it has been working for me. So far, I've dropped 13 lbs. in two months, going from 140 lbs. to 127 lbs., which is just 2 lbs. shy of my weight loss goal. Therefore, working out in the morning works. The consistency of it, combined with a good diet will take the pounds off for sure.
You need to eat more, and change to a more modest goal per week. What you’re doing is not sustainable and you can’t perform well in the gym because your deficit is too big.
Plus, I’d cut the day of agressive cardio, if you’re looking to gain muscle, cardio won’t help.
Cardio done with proper load regulation within a well written program can be beneficial to lifting which can help with hypertrophy or strength gains.
It might not be necessary for a lifter but at some point it can certainly be beneficial opposed to not for many individuals.
I DO agree with your correction, and your comment. OP’s schedule and deficit sounds alarming, and the HEAVY cardio he/she mentioned on top of everything else was just too much.
I’ve been on an agressive fitness/work schedule - only one rest day and working lots of hours - and it was wrecking me... and I was on maintainance calories. Not in a deficit. Cardio was sacrificed for my sanity.
I do the cardio the day after leg day as it helps with recovery, the extra blood pumping down there makes it so I'm less sore. Otherwise I'm hobbling for a few days.
Also the cardio is with max resistance, so I imagine that it works the muscle a bit. It's like auxiliary leg day haha
So if you are getting a good enough workout in (that's debatable with what you've shared) that requires the normal 24-48 hrs of recovery/rebuild - you are killing that by trying to have another tough leg day basically. Recovery cardio is indeed great, another hard workout ....
Of course how the body responds to this routine you got over time is not actually being able to push yourself to the point of causing much if any damage that requires repair anyway.
Oh, while you are in this state it will feel like you are giving it your all - for the state you are in.
But it's not actually to the point of doing much if any benefit for the muscles for what the lifting could do.
Therefore not much needed for recovery since not much damaged.
The fact you may have increased on some lifts really has a huge bearing on where did you start in training when you started this diet/routine?
If just starting the lifting - then you would be having increases merely based on CNS improvements of using the muscles, and form improvements.
Likely not even getting the full potential there.
Well, it'll be great if you can report back how it's going near the end.
As of yet all the topics I've seen of similar goals and methods has ended with confirmed failure well before goal was reached - or no reporting back but verification of profile showed a going off the rails.
So if you are getting a good enough workout in (that's debatable with what you've shared) that requires the normal 24-48 hrs of recovery/rebuild - you are killing that by trying to have another tough leg day basically. Recovery cardio is indeed great, another hard workout ....
There was a fantastic meta-analysis by Greg Nuckols in the June 2018 issue of Monthly Application in Strength Sports (MASS) where they compared research data from over 99 studies, "includes 80 studies assessing DOMS, 17 studies assessing perceived fatigue, 19 studies assessing inflammatory markers, and 37 studies assessing proxies of muscle damage. Recovery interventions assessed included active recovery, stretching, massage, massage + stretching, electrostimulation, compression garments, water immersion, contrast water therapy, cryotherapy, and hyperbaric therapy."
I can't link to the actual MASS article because it's password-protected, but I'll copy/paste two relevant tidbits here:
"Active recovery, massage, compression garments, immersion, contrast water therapy, and cryotherapy all significantly reduced DOMS, while stretching, electrostimulation, and hyperbaric therapy had no significant effects. Of note, massage was the most effective intervention for reducing DOMS."
"This meta-analysis paints a pretty muddy picture for active recovery. On one hand, it was one of the most effective strategies for reducing DOMS, but it actually slightly increased perceived fatigue 24 hours post-training, on average (though the confidence interval for perceived fatigue was really wide). This meta-analysis also doesn’t do stretching any favors: While stretching continues to be a popular post-workout recommendation (with people claiming it will reduce soreness), it didn’t have any effect on either DOMS or perceived fatigue."
You need to eat more, and change to a more modest goal per week. What you’re doing is not sustainable and you can’t perform well in the gym because your deficit is too big.
Plus, I’d cut the day of agressive cardio, if you’re looking to gain muscle, cardio won’t help.
Cardio done with proper load regulation within a well written program can be beneficial to lifting which can help with hypertrophy or strength gains.
It might not be necessary for a lifter but at some point it can certainly be beneficial opposed to not for many individuals.
I DO agree with your correction, and your comment. OP’s schedule and deficit sounds alarming, and the HEAVY cardio he/she mentioned on top of everything else was just too much.
I’ve been on an agressive fitness/work schedule - only one rest day and working lots of hours - and it was wrecking me... and I was on maintainance calories. Not in a deficit. Cardio was sacrificed for my sanity.
I do the cardio the day after leg day as it helps with recovery, the extra blood pumping down there makes it so I'm less sore. Otherwise I'm hobbling for a few days.
Also the cardio is with max resistance, so I imagine that it works the muscle a bit. It's like auxiliary leg day haha
So if you are getting a good enough workout in (that's debatable with what you've shared) that requires the normal 24-48 hrs of recovery/rebuild - you are killing that by trying to have another tough leg day basically. Recovery cardio is indeed great, another hard workout ....
Of course how the body responds to this routine you got over time is not actually being able to push yourself to the point of causing much if any damage that requires repair anyway.
Oh, while you are in this state it will feel like you are giving it your all - for the state you are in.
But it's not actually to the point of doing much if any benefit for the muscles for what the lifting could do.
Therefore not much needed for recovery since not much damaged.
The fact you may have increased on some lifts really has a huge bearing on where did you start in training when you started this diet/routine?
If just starting the lifting - then you would be having increases merely based on CNS improvements of using the muscles, and form improvements.
Likely not even getting the full potential there.
Well, it'll be great if you can report back how it's going near the end.
As of yet all the topics I've seen of similar goals and methods has ended with confirmed failure well before goal was reached - or no reporting back but verification of profile showed a going off the rails.
That's the desired outcome, though. I'm well aware of CNS, and that my strength gains are likely due to the physical understanding of how to inherently use the muscle. There have been some obvious muscle gains, on the arms and legs, but they are minimal, and visibly will likely remain so until I switch up the diet at goal weight. I have a large frame, and actually a surprising amount of strength. With about 3 months of training, I'm leg pressing nearly 600. Not all of the gains have been extraordinary; my bench is still unfortunately weak, but I understand I'm not really building a ton of muscle right now. Maintaining my muscle mass on the way down, as there still is quite a bit, would be a tremendous success.
The cardio really does help with the soreness. Leg day is the most impressive day, but it is also the most painful. Without the cardio the next day, I would really hurt. The heavy resistance I think is just due to the lower body strength I've unlocked; it just isn't as heavy for me. Im really not bragging, and I'm not saying it isn't hard, it just is nowhere near as hard as when I started. I don't feel a ton of muscle burning after the blood is pumping. This cardio day is also followed immediately by a rest day.
I'm not going anywhere this time. Don't you worry. And I am planning for more substantial changes to the diet if there are any dips or longer plateauing of strength. This just hasn't happened yet, and, surprisingly, I haven't found the low calorie diet incredibly difficult so long as I'm in a place where I have control of meal production. Well, until maybe now where I'm trying to fit 150 grams of protein in lol.
So if you are getting a good enough workout in (that's debatable with what you've shared) that requires the normal 24-48 hrs of recovery/rebuild - you are killing that by trying to have another tough leg day basically. Recovery cardio is indeed great, another hard workout ....
There was a fantastic meta-analysis by Greg Nuckols in the June 2018 issue of Monthly Application in Strength Sports (MASS) where they compared research data from over 99 studies, "includes 80 studies assessing DOMS, 17 studies assessing perceived fatigue, 19 studies assessing inflammatory markers, and 37 studies assessing proxies of muscle damage. Recovery interventions assessed included active recovery, stretching, massage, massage + stretching, electrostimulation, compression garments, water immersion, contrast water therapy, cryotherapy, and hyperbaric therapy."
I can't link to the actual MASS article because it's password-protected, but I'll copy/paste two relevant tidbits here:
"Active recovery, massage, compression garments, immersion, contrast water therapy, and cryotherapy all significantly reduced DOMS, while stretching, electrostimulation, and hyperbaric therapy had no significant effects. Of note, massage was the most effective intervention for reducing DOMS."
"This meta-analysis paints a pretty muddy picture for active recovery. On one hand, it was one of the most effective strategies for reducing DOMS, but it actually slightly increased perceived fatigue 24 hours post-training, on average (though the confidence interval for perceived fatigue was really wide). This meta-analysis also doesn’t do stretching any favors: While stretching continues to be a popular post-workout recommendation (with people claiming it will reduce soreness), it didn’t have any effect on either DOMS or perceived fatigue."
Wasn't referring to DOMS and helping the soreness.
Was referring to the actual repair of muscle that has been torn up from a really good resistance workout.
You can get to the point you don't even have DOMS but still need repair of the muscle.
You can also get DOMS and not really do that much damage but overstretch muscle.
So DOMS is not a good sign if you are doing damage.
And yes cardio can be great for recovery in that 24-48 hrs of repair time - it's usually called Active Recovery aerobic for a reason, but what was described by OP as cardio done the next day is not that really.
Hi, I know the feeling, I work 14 hour night shifts 5 days a week and have daily chores like kids shopping etc to do as well as getting a couple of hours sleep where poss. I go to the gym first thing after I drop the kids off so I don't miss it but I only go 3 days a week with some cardio and some weights each time I'm fairly new to the gym so still improving and I'm also trying to lose weight ( another 2 stone to go) but I have it set to lose 1-2 lb a MONTH so although I am tired from lack of sleep I'm not tired because of lack of food. I prefer to take longer and relax a bit more than push too much and regret missing out on meals out , family time away from the gym or sleep! Hopefully you will figure out a good balance for yourself , good luck ! X
So if you are getting a good enough workout in (that's debatable with what you've shared) that requires the normal 24-48 hrs of recovery/rebuild - you are killing that by trying to have another tough leg day basically. Recovery cardio is indeed great, another hard workout ....
There was a fantastic meta-analysis by Greg Nuckols in the June 2018 issue of Monthly Application in Strength Sports (MASS) where they compared research data from over 99 studies, "includes 80 studies assessing DOMS, 17 studies assessing perceived fatigue, 19 studies assessing inflammatory markers, and 37 studies assessing proxies of muscle damage. Recovery interventions assessed included active recovery, stretching, massage, massage + stretching, electrostimulation, compression garments, water immersion, contrast water therapy, cryotherapy, and hyperbaric therapy."
I can't link to the actual MASS article because it's password-protected, but I'll copy/paste two relevant tidbits here:
"Active recovery, massage, compression garments, immersion, contrast water therapy, and cryotherapy all significantly reduced DOMS, while stretching, electrostimulation, and hyperbaric therapy had no significant effects. Of note, massage was the most effective intervention for reducing DOMS."
"This meta-analysis paints a pretty muddy picture for active recovery. On one hand, it was one of the most effective strategies for reducing DOMS, but it actually slightly increased perceived fatigue 24 hours post-training, on average (though the confidence interval for perceived fatigue was really wide). This meta-analysis also doesn’t do stretching any favors: While stretching continues to be a popular post-workout recommendation (with people claiming it will reduce soreness), it didn’t have any effect on either DOMS or perceived fatigue."
People try to use hyperbaric chambers for DOMS? The world is a crazy place.
I only work out after work, 8 and sometimes 10 hour work days. I just do it, because I need to sleep in as long as possible in the morning. BTW, I am single with no responsibilities except moi.
I work 12 hr shifts, 5:30 to 5:30. I just go. If I think I will need fuel then I have something in my bag to eat. But I simply go. Even if my workout sucks, I feel good knowing I did something.
NEVER sacrifice sleep for workout. I used to do it and it was not sustainable and very stressful on your body especially since you are already stressing it with a diet. When life get’s crazy busy my personal care priorities are sleep >> workout >> diet
NEVER sacrifice sleep for workout. I used to do it and it was not sustainable and very stressful on your body especially since you are already stressing it with a diet. When life get’s crazy busy my personal care priorities are sleep >> workout >> diet
Yeah I definitely can't handle it on calorie deficits. It's a really fine balance right now.
Replies
...you are hardcore in a way that I have to bow down to.
You have 30lbs to lose no? That's more or less the number of pounds that I have left until I hit my goal weight (more like 25 but close enough), though I appear to be taking a less aggressive approach with regards to calories. What exactly are you waiting to do that you can't do now? The way you're at it, you're on a path to crashing and burning by way of not consuming enough calories to sustain your exercising.
What's going to happen when you reach your goal? For most of us, losing weight slowly is a useful learning experience, it helps recalibrate your sense of what a reasonable diet is. This is something you're going to need once you get to your goal weight of you want to stay there.
So if you are getting a good enough workout in (that's debatable with what you've shared) that requires the normal 24-48 hrs of recovery/rebuild - you are killing that by trying to have another tough leg day basically. Recovery cardio is indeed great, another hard workout ....
Of course how the body responds to this routine you got over time is not actually being able to push yourself to the point of causing much if any damage that requires repair anyway.
Oh, while you are in this state it will feel like you are giving it your all - for the state you are in.
But it's not actually to the point of doing much if any benefit for the muscles for what the lifting could do.
Therefore not much needed for recovery since not much damaged.
The fact you may have increased on some lifts really has a huge bearing on where did you start in training when you started this diet/routine?
If just starting the lifting - then you would be having increases merely based on CNS improvements of using the muscles, and form improvements.
Likely not even getting the full potential there.
Well, it'll be great if you can report back how it's going near the end.
As of yet all the topics I've seen of similar goals and methods has ended with confirmed failure well before goal was reached - or no reporting back but verification of profile showed a going off the rails.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2018.00403/full
There was a fantastic meta-analysis by Greg Nuckols in the June 2018 issue of Monthly Application in Strength Sports (MASS) where they compared research data from over 99 studies, "includes 80 studies assessing DOMS, 17 studies assessing perceived fatigue, 19 studies assessing inflammatory markers, and 37 studies assessing proxies of muscle damage. Recovery interventions assessed included active recovery, stretching, massage, massage + stretching, electrostimulation, compression garments, water immersion, contrast water therapy, cryotherapy, and hyperbaric therapy."
I can't link to the actual MASS article because it's password-protected, but I'll copy/paste two relevant tidbits here:
"Active recovery, massage, compression garments, immersion, contrast water therapy, and cryotherapy all significantly reduced DOMS, while stretching, electrostimulation, and hyperbaric therapy had no significant effects. Of note, massage was the most effective intervention for reducing DOMS."
"This meta-analysis paints a pretty muddy picture for active recovery. On one hand, it was one of the most effective strategies for reducing DOMS, but it actually slightly increased perceived fatigue 24 hours post-training, on average (though the confidence interval for perceived fatigue was really wide). This meta-analysis also doesn’t do stretching any favors: While stretching continues to be a popular post-workout recommendation (with people claiming it will reduce soreness), it didn’t have any effect on either DOMS or perceived fatigue."
That's the desired outcome, though. I'm well aware of CNS, and that my strength gains are likely due to the physical understanding of how to inherently use the muscle. There have been some obvious muscle gains, on the arms and legs, but they are minimal, and visibly will likely remain so until I switch up the diet at goal weight. I have a large frame, and actually a surprising amount of strength. With about 3 months of training, I'm leg pressing nearly 600. Not all of the gains have been extraordinary; my bench is still unfortunately weak, but I understand I'm not really building a ton of muscle right now. Maintaining my muscle mass on the way down, as there still is quite a bit, would be a tremendous success.
The cardio really does help with the soreness. Leg day is the most impressive day, but it is also the most painful. Without the cardio the next day, I would really hurt. The heavy resistance I think is just due to the lower body strength I've unlocked; it just isn't as heavy for me. Im really not bragging, and I'm not saying it isn't hard, it just is nowhere near as hard as when I started. I don't feel a ton of muscle burning after the blood is pumping. This cardio day is also followed immediately by a rest day.
I'm not going anywhere this time. Don't you worry. And I am planning for more substantial changes to the diet if there are any dips or longer plateauing of strength. This just hasn't happened yet, and, surprisingly, I haven't found the low calorie diet incredibly difficult so long as I'm in a place where I have control of meal production. Well, until maybe now where I'm trying to fit 150 grams of protein in lol.
Wasn't referring to DOMS and helping the soreness.
Was referring to the actual repair of muscle that has been torn up from a really good resistance workout.
You can get to the point you don't even have DOMS but still need repair of the muscle.
You can also get DOMS and not really do that much damage but overstretch muscle.
So DOMS is not a good sign if you are doing damage.
And yes cardio can be great for recovery in that 24-48 hrs of repair time - it's usually called Active Recovery aerobic for a reason, but what was described by OP as cardio done the next day is not that really.
People try to use hyperbaric chambers for DOMS? The world is a crazy place.
This. I get up at 5am not 3 but the same applies to me. Get it done before work. I'd get up earlier if I had to.
Yeah I definitely can't handle it on calorie deficits. It's a really fine balance right now.