No DOMS= no muscle gain?

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erinelizabeth882
erinelizabeth882 Posts: 102 Member
edited April 2019 in Fitness and Exercise
I’ve been doing a boot camp class 2-3 times/week since about last July. We use weights (I use 5-12 pound dumbbells depending on the exercise) and do cardio, plyos, etc. I feel like my fitness progress has been slower than expected. I think I had more DOMS when I started but haven’t been feeling any for quite a while, even though I feel like I’m working really hard in sessions and picking weights that are a challenge for me, especially in the arms. Does not having DOMS mean you aren’t gaining muscle? I feel like I’ve gained little definition or gain. I know weight loss and “toning up” is 80% nutrition and 20% exercise and I’m working on the nutrition and calorie portion more recently but I want to make sure I’m not wasting my time if I should be doing something different.

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  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    edited April 2019
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    DOMS does not indicate muscle gain or a good workout. It's just your body responding to you doing something different. Also if you are in a deficit and doing boot camp classes, you are fairly unlikely to see any significant (if any) muscle gain. In the end it really depends on your goals. If you enjoy the classes and are seeing progress, keep up with them they sound fun. However, if you want the best chance of preserving muscle while losing weight ("toning up"), I would recommend a proper lifting program at some point. But again if you are seeing desired results, you definitely don't have to go that route and can keep up with what you are doing.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,293 Member
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    Have you been using the same weight all along? If so, I would suggest increasing the weight.

    but to answer your question DOMs =/= muscle gain. Usually, DOMs goes away or becomes much musch less once your body gets used to the new exercises you are doing.
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
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    DOMs is neither necessary nor sufficient to cause muscle growth.
    Muscle growth seems to be a function of progressive overload - if your general lifting goes up in intensity (generally weight on bar), volume (reps per set, sets per workout), or frequency (workouts per time), your muscles will have to grow.
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    edited April 2019
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    magnusthenerd wrote: »
    DOMs is neither necessary nor sufficient to cause muscle growth.
    Muscle growth seems to be a function of progressive overload - if your general lifting goes up in intensity (generally weight on bar), volume (reps per set, sets per workout), or frequency (workouts per time), your muscles will have to grow.

    Plus sufficient fuel (if someone is significantly overweight or obese in some cases) or calories. I can still make this kind of progress in a deficit when no muscle is being gained.
  • shadow2soul
    shadow2soul Posts: 7,692 Member
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    I rarely get DOMS past the first week of something new. It’s a common misconception that if you don’t experience DOMS you didn’t have a good workout. I currently have some DOMS in my calf muscles, because the other day I decided to run for the first time in about 8 months or so. :laugh: I actually did surprisingly well endurance wise. That said I started Strong Curves beginners program 4 weeks ago after not lifting heavy for over a year and lots of DOMS week 1, but that’s it. I’ve upped my weights on some exercises as well so I am seeing progress without the soreness. Who wants to be sore all the time anyway? I know I sure don’t.
  • steph2strong
    steph2strong Posts: 426 Member
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    On the flip side I get DOMS ALL the time, but not any muscle growth unless I start surplus eating, and then usually the DOMS lessen!
  • MikePTY
    MikePTY Posts: 3,814 Member
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    I rarely get DOMS anymore in any of my training (weight lifting, martial arts training, etc), because as my fitness level improves, my body gets more used to it. But I've just started taking up hiking, and because it's new and my body hasn't adjusted to it, any time I go on a hike I am sore for days afterwards. It doesn't mean that hike was better exercise or built more muscle, just that my body was not accustomed to that type of exercise.
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
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    sardelsa wrote: »
    magnusthenerd wrote: »
    DOMs is neither necessary nor sufficient to cause muscle growth.
    Muscle growth seems to be a function of progressive overload - if your general lifting goes up in intensity (generally weight on bar), volume (reps per set, sets per workout), or frequency (workouts per time), your muscles will have to grow.

    Plus sufficient fuel (if someone is significantly overweight or obese in some cases) or calories. I can still make this kind of progress in a deficit when no muscle is being gained.

    If you can still make significant progress in at least one of those domains without decreasing another, I'd say you're growing muscle, regardless of whether you are in a deficit or not. When I say significant progress, I mean more than just a few workouts because you could always do more at a work by accumulating more fatigue, which will stall.
    I'd be surprised by any natural lifter past the middle of intermediate consistently presenting progressive overload while in a deficit.
  • erinelizabeth882
    erinelizabeth882 Posts: 102 Member
    edited April 2019
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    Thank you all! I’ve been hesitant to spend effort on learning lifting at this point because I’m mostly concerned about losing fat. I think I have a fair amount of muscle that would be visible if I decrease my fat. I figure the boot camp is giving me some resistance training with cardio to help me maintain some muscle while I’m losing fat with my calorie deficit. Lifting is quite intimidating to me (I know I know, I need to just learn and do it!) but I figure I need to lose the fat and then I can see if I need to do more resistance training to get the definition or gain I want?
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,293 Member
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    erinelizabeth882 wrote: »
    Thank you all! I’ve been hesitant to spend effort on learning lifting at this point because I’m mostly concerned about losing fat. I think I have a fair amount of muscle that would be visible if I decrease my fat. I figure the boot camp is giving me some resistance training with cardio to help me maintain some muscle while I’m losing fat with my calorie deficit. Lifting is quite intimidating to me (I know I know, I need to just learn and do it!) so I figure I need to lose the fat and then I can see if I need to do more resistance training to get the definition or gain I want?

    Keep in mind that it is much easier to maintain the muscle you already have then it is to build new muscle. so if you are considering lifting the best day to start in your weight loss journey is today! That way at your goal weight you will have a lower BF% and will more than likely be happier with your results
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
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    erinelizabeth882 wrote: »
    Thank you all! I’ve been hesitant to spend effort on learning lifting at this point because I’m mostly concerned about losing fat. I think I have a fair amount of muscle that would be visible if I decrease my fat. I figure the boot camp is giving me some resistance training with cardio to help me maintain some muscle while I’m losing fat with my calorie deficit. Lifting is quite intimidating to me (I know I know, I need to just learn and do it!) so I figure I need to lose the fat and then I can see if I need to do more resistance training to get the definition or gain I want?

    Definition will come from losing fat, and will be much more significant if you lift weights to give you the best chance to retain muscle. You don't have to wait until you lose fat before you start lifting. That is a huge misconception and often leads to dissatisfaction with body composition when someone gets to goal. At that point it will be much more difficult to build the muscle lost (I've been there many years ago, beyond frustrating) vs saving it during weight loss in the first place.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    erinelizabeth882 wrote: »
    I’ve been doing a boot camp class 2-3 times/week since about last July. We use weights (I use 5-12 pound dumbbells depending on the exercise) and do cardio, plyos, etc. I feel like my fitness progress has been slower than expected. I think I had more DOMS when I started but haven’t been feeling any for quite a while, even though I feel like I’m working really hard in sessions and picking weights that are a challenge for me, especially in the arms. Does not having DOMS mean you aren’t gaining muscle? I feel like I’ve gained little definition or gain. I know weight loss and “toning up” is 80% nutrition and 20% exercise and I’m working on the nutrition and calorie portion more recently but I want to make sure I’m not wasting my time if I should be doing something different.

    DOMs is a result of novice training, or doing something different that works different muscles. If you're training regularly, you really shouldn't have DOMs, or they should be minimal.

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