Proper abs/overall core workout and how/where to incorporate it in your training?

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duteshredded
duteshredded Posts: 32 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Hi, any advice on how I should start training my abs and overall just core muscles properly and how I would add them into a push pull legs 2x a week routine?

I’ve went from 100kg to around now floating between 55-60kg with visible abs when tensing them although I’ve never even trained them they’re just small blocks on my stomach lol never thought I’d see them and now that I can I want to start training them along with all the other muscles like serratus and obliques etc..

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  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    edited May 2019
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    I usually have lifters to use a ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes 1-2 per week depending on the stimulus in the programming for the individual.

    For those who can do a full standing or kneeling roll out I have them do a ROM they can do and eventually they will get full range.

    Planks is a decent option and sitting V holds are a higher level option.

  • duteshredded
    duteshredded Posts: 32 Member
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    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I usually have lifters to use a ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes 1-2 per week depending on the stimulus in the programming for the individual.

    For those who can do a full standing or kneeling roll out I have them do a ROM they can do and eventually they will get full range.

    Planks is a decent option and sitting V holds are a higher level option.

    Cheers bro I’ll look them up n see what I can do, just gonna fit some sort of ab training in twice a week probs
  • pierinifitness
    pierinifitness Posts: 2,231 Member
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    I’ll present another thought. No direct ab/core work in necessary if your primary exercises get the job done and diet is stellar.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
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    pierinifitness wrote: »
    I’ll present another thought. No direct ab/core work in necessary if your primary exercises get the job done and diet is stellar.

    I would argue that building a higher work capacity will help progression of certain lifts. In other words the primary lifts such as the squat, deadlifts, and bench can definitely benefit from added stimulus that is more easily recovered from at some point in training.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
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    pierinifitness wrote: »
    I’ll present another thought. No direct ab/core work in necessary if your primary exercises get the job done and diet is stellar.

    IMO, depends on the end goal.

    Given how important core muscles/stability are to many lifts and much of every day life, training those muscles specifically with those benefits in mind has plenty of merit. Training the core to "get abs" has less merit.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 5,948 Member
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    Chieflrg wrote: »
    pierinifitness wrote: »
    I’ll present another thought. No direct ab/core work in necessary if your primary exercises get the job done and diet is stellar.

    I would argue that building a higher work capacity will help progression of certain lifts.     In other words the primary lifts such as the squat, deadlifts, and bench can definitely benefit from added stimulus that is more easily recovered from at some point in training.

    100%
  • steph2strong
    steph2strong Posts: 426 Member
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    Specifically training my core has had great carry over in improving my sprinting, rowing and lifting ability. I train my core most days of the week my favourite exercises being spiderman planks, army crawl planks, kettlebell swings and v-ups. I also do a lot of unilateral body work which helps train my core stability and balance. What I don't do is "isolate the abs" since your "core" includes your hip/pelvic girdle, back, glutes and abs and training all in conjunction is what is going to have the athletic carry over.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,473 Member
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    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I usually have lifters to use a ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes 1-2 per week depending on the stimulus in the programming for the individual.

    For those who can do a full standing or kneeling roll out I have them do a ROM they can do and eventually they will get full range.

    Planks is a decent option and sitting V holds are a higher level option.

    Could you explain the use of an ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes? I love the ab wheel, I can't see anyone doing it for 6-7 minutes straight with the possible exception of an elite athlete.

    How do you split this up? Thanks.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I usually have lifters to use a ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes 1-2 per week depending on the stimulus in the programming for the individual.

    For those who can do a full standing or kneeling roll out I have them do a ROM they can do and eventually they will get full range.

    Planks is a decent option and sitting V holds are a higher level option.

    Could you explain the use of an ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes? I love the ab wheel, I can't see anyone doing it for 6-7 minutes straight with the possible exception of an elite athlete.

    How do you split this up? Thanks.

    Of course.

    You would take breaks throughout the entire 6-7 minutes. The amount of sets and rest is up to the individual.

    Its basically a AMRAP with auto regulation.

    The governors I have is the person must not exceed RPE 8 or two left in the tank. Take needed rest, and begin set when comfortable. Using the Valsalva maneuver on all reps.

    As mentioned previously, it's okay if full ROM is not there early on in training. The goal is to eventually get full ROM for maximum benefits. I suggest to only roll once or twice farther out than previous sessions if they feel comfortable. Eventually after enough volume and useful stress is built up, one will be able to use full range.

  • pierinifitness
    pierinifitness Posts: 2,231 Member
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    I find the KB work I do along with pull-ups fires my core effectively. KB swings and various carries (waiter, rack and suitcase varieties) are what I consider KB work covering a wide range of muscles, including ab/core musculature. I don't consider any of these things I do direct ab/core work. That's what I meant in my earlier post.

    I'm always amazed after a 100 rep pull-up workout how worked my abs feel. I've done my fair share of direct ab/core work before. It's time-consuming. Got better return on my investment doing barbell good mornings and the benefit provided to strengthening my core and improving squat performance than all the v-ups, planks, you name it direct ab work I did.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 5,948 Member
    edited May 2019
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    fernt21 wrote: »
    Specifically training my core has had great carry over in improving my sprinting, rowing and lifting ability. I train my core most days of the week my favourite exercises being spiderman planks, army crawl planks, kettlebell swings and v-ups. I also do a lot of unilateral body work which helps train my core stability and balance. What I don't do is "isolate the abs" since your "core" includes your hip/pelvic girdle, back, glutes and abs and training all in conjunction is what is going to have the athletic carry over.

    I have a similar take as well. I train my core specifically to attain a press hand stand. V-ups, pike press, L-sits, crow holds, toes to bar etc.

    To @pierinifitness point, I do however agree that isolated core work is not needed for general strength and aesthetics...
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,209 Member
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    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I usually have lifters to use a ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes 1-2 per week depending on the stimulus in the programming for the individual.

    Pro tip: Start with 1 minute your first session, and see how you feel the next day. ;)

    Also watch 2 or 3 tutorials on youtube, especially Scooby's.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
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    Cherimoose wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I usually have lifters to use a ab wheel with a timer set for 6-7 minutes 1-2 per week depending on the stimulus in the programming for the individual.

    Pro tip: Start with 1 minute your first session, and see how you feel the next day. ;)

    Also watch 2 or 3 tutorials on youtube, especially Scooby's.

    That tip could be useful for most for sure.

    The day after a.w. is always a bit of a chuckle when setting up to bench and arching.
  • duteshredded
    duteshredded Posts: 32 Member
    edited May 2019
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    Cheers guys, the main thing I’m concerned about is developing more of pretty much everything there is in the core area and had a guess that crunches just weren’t enough. The Apollo’s belt is what I’m sorting looking to achieve. I’ll give the rollouts a try and see how they are
  • pierinifitness
    pierinifitness Posts: 2,231 Member
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    Stuart McGill has what is known as The Big 3 as safe ab/core training. His readings deserve a careful read based on his research and experience on this subject:

    https://www.acefitness.org/education-and-resources/professional/expert-articles/7077/low-back-rehab-exercises-stuart-mcgill-s-big-three

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