Low carb diet and cheat days
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JohnPaulEightyOne
Posts: 127 Member
So I'm fairly new to the low-carb/keto diet. The food is delicious and very easy to eat. The "problem" is that I enjoy taking one day a week to just eat whatever I want since this is a day I'm usually out being social. I know that with the keto diet, the idea is to be in ketosis and a cheat day (or even a meal) can kick you out of ketosis for several days. What I want to know is if being in ketosis is just some sort of bonus. Does it just increase fat burning? Or does a high fat, low carb diet like this REQUIRE you to always be in ketosis?
I guess what I'm trying to find out is if a low-carb/keto diet can still work with a cheat day. Or should I rearrange my macros for a bit more balance?
I guess what I'm trying to find out is if a low-carb/keto diet can still work with a cheat day. Or should I rearrange my macros for a bit more balance?
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Replies
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sixtosounds wrote: »So I'm fairly new to the low-carb/keto diet. The food is delicious and very easy to eat. The "problem" is that I enjoy taking one day a week to just eat whatever I want since this is a day I'm usually out being social. I know that with the keto diet, the idea is to be in ketosis and a cheat day (or even a meal) can kick you out of ketosis for several days. What I want to know is if being in ketosis is just some sort of bonus. Does it just increase fat burning? Or does a high fat, low carb diet like this REQUIRE you to always be in ketosis?
I guess what I'm trying to find out is if a low-carb/keto diet can still work with a cheat day. Or should I rearrange my macros for a bit more balance?
All studies indicate there is no advantage to the keto diet or being in ketosis for fat loss. A calorie deficit is all you need to lose weight. I should warn you though that a single day of eating can erase your deficit for the week so it is better to log it and find out how much it is costing you.20 -
Keto isn't necessary to lose weight. Some find it easier to stick to a calorie deficit.
Cheat days eating whatever you want would make trying keto a losing proposition for you. It's a *very* restrictive way of eating and you'd be constantly trying to catch up again.
Calorie deficit is what is necessary to lose weight. If you go nuts one day a week, you will probably not maintain that deficit and either not lose weight, or possibly slowly gain if you really go nuts.
Try fitting in smaller portions of things you like daily or weekly while still staying in a calorie deficit.
Many find the word "cheat" offensive and will argue semantics. You are really only cheating yourself if you decide to go overboard.4 -
You don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat. If it's your choice to do a low carb diet, that's fine. If you want to have a cheat day once a week, that's fine too if it keeps you adherent to a caloric deficit overall; that's what burns fat.7
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Yeah, I was just trying something new, and it is a fun way to eat. But I don't think it's helped me much, if any. Lots of water weight that fluctuated. I lost all the weight with a balanced diet, and if I learned anything from Mr. Miyagi it's that balance is the key.6
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Excuse me for getting up on my soap box but keto is something I'm passionate about. Balance is for suckers and so "it's all about calories in and calories out". Those cliche's don't work for everybody. For men with more muscle mass, more power to you.
50-something woman here, sedentary job, light exercise 4-5 days a week. I eat 1200 balanced calories a day and still don't lose weight. Keto is the only thing that works for me because it burns stored fat. I also feel fantastic on it and when I don't eat carbs, I have a lot more mental clarity and no cravings for carbs. You don't have to count calories on keto but I do because it's easy to go over board with all the fat you're eating.
I played around with it for a few years, yo-yo'd a bit but it wasn't until I got serious that I got consistent results. My experience has shown, when you cheat and are no longer in ketosis, not only does it take you 3-7 days to get back into ketosis, but it becomes incrementally harder each time. Ketosis is a sign your body is excreting ketones i.e. you are burning fat for fuel, you are fat-adapted so it absolutely is important. It doesn't matter what shade of purple you are on the stick, any ketones means you are in ketosis. I happen to usually be in the dark or "Large" area on the stick because I'm diligent about my carbs. Your body WANTS to burn carbs for fuel, it's much easier so when you give it carbs, it will use them and again, it gets harder and harder to become fat adapted. If you are serious about weight loss, keto will do it but you have to stick with 20-30 g. carbs per day or if you cheat, make it one item. For example, at dinner, have a potato, a dinner roll, a beer or a dessert-not all of them and of course, get right back at it, don't "wait until Monday" and don't do it every week. Keto is not for the casual dieter, it is a lifestyle. If you're not doing it 110%, you're really not doing it, you're just doing low carb. Just my two cents.22 -
^^ And yet, I lost all my weight as a 50-something woman eating whatever type food I want and still lost my 70+ pounds and have kept it off for 12 years. Never keto.Excuse me for getting up on my soap box but keto is something I'm passionate about. Balance is for suckers and so "it's all about calories in and calories out". Those cliche's don't work for everybody. For men with more muscle mass, more power to you.
50-something woman here, sedentary job, light exercise 4-5 days a week. I eat 1200 balanced calories a day and still don't lose weight. Keto is the only thing that works for me because it burns stored fat
Balance is not for suckers and the body does burn fat if you are in a calorie deficit.
It is in fact about calories in < calories out for weight loss.
Oh. And I didn't eat 1200 calories for long. I lost most of my weight at 1500 plus exercise calories, so more like 1800-1900. Including ice cream and bread and chips, etc. Your understanding of weight loss is flawed.17 -
The short answer is discover your sweet spot that works for you which may be different than what others share, and run with it. It’ll likely be that which cultivates and sustains consistency and discipline.
I found mine, here’s hoping you find yours.
My final two cents - get rid of the cheat word and replace it with treat. Words matter. You really don’t want to cheat yourself, do you?2 -
I have to back up Knosti a little on this. If you want to do the keto way of eating, don't do "cheat" days. It's counterproductive. That would not be nutritional ketosis. Keto is not the same as other low carb plans. If you choose low carb, then maybe cheats or treats will work for you.
For some people, eating too much carbs creates the situation of having too much insulin in their blood, and this excess insulin will prohibit fat loss or make it really difficult (compared to someone without excess insulin). Everybody has their unique problems to figure out. One size does not necessarily fit all.
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5487935/)9 -
Excuse me for getting up on my soap box but keto is something I'm passionate about. Balance is for suckers and so "it's all about calories in and calories out". Those cliche's don't work for everybody. For men with more muscle mass, more power to you.
50-something woman here, sedentary job, light exercise 4-5 days a week. I eat 1200 balanced calories a day and still don't lose weight. Keto is the only thing that works for me because it burns stored fat. I also feel fantastic on it and when I don't eat carbs, I have a lot more mental clarity and no cravings for carbs. You don't have to count calories on keto but I do because it's easy to go over board with all the fat you're eating.
I played around with it for a few years, yo-yo'd a bit but it wasn't until I got serious that I got consistent results. My experience has shown, when you cheat and are no longer in ketosis, not only does it take you 3-7 days to get back into ketosis, but it becomes incrementally harder each time. Ketosis is a sign your body is excreting ketones i.e. you are burning fat for fuel, you are fat-adapted so it absolutely is important. It doesn't matter what shade of purple you are on the stick, any ketones means you are in ketosis. I happen to usually be in the dark or "Large" area on the stick because I'm diligent about my carbs. Your body WANTS to burn carbs for fuel, it's much easier so when you give it carbs, it will use them and again, it gets harder and harder to become fat adapted. If you are serious about weight loss, keto will do it but you have to stick with 20-30 g. carbs per day or if you cheat, make it one item. For example, at dinner, have a potato, a dinner roll, a beer or a dessert-not all of them and of course, get right back at it, don't "wait until Monday" and don't do it every week. Keto is not for the casual dieter, it is a lifestyle. If you're not doing it 110%, you're really not doing it, you're just doing low carb. Just my two cents.
You may be passionate about this but you are passionately mistaken. There have been many studies and meta analyses comparing keto to other dietary methods. Like this one for example.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/?fbclid=IwAR1DFikPeiksul4Px_xeejVyrzqg-fyxUC-BlOm7GpJdlvj04JCl4fiJXo8
All findings are that keto has no metabolic advantage for fat loss when calories and protein are held constant. You don't burn more body fat on keto. You burn more dietary fat.
I'm glad you found something that works for you. If it's how you or anyone else prefers to eat, it is a valid dietary modality. For some it has the effect of blunting hunger and that can be helpful from a dietary compliance point of view. But for many, just going lower carb, between 100 and 150 grams per day does the same thing.
In the end, it does all come down to calories in/ calories out. There are a wide variety of ways to accomplish that and calories and compliance are the 2 most important variables.11 -
sixtosounds wrote: »So I'm fairly new to the low-carb/keto diet. The food is delicious and very easy to eat. The "problem" is that I enjoy taking one day a week to just eat whatever I want since this is a day I'm usually out being social. I know that with the keto diet, the idea is to be in ketosis and a cheat day (or even a meal) can kick you out of ketosis for several days. What I want to know is if being in ketosis is just some sort of bonus. Does it just increase fat burning? Or does a high fat, low carb diet like this REQUIRE you to always be in ketosis?
I guess what I'm trying to find out is if a low-carb/keto diet can still work with a cheat day. Or should I rearrange my macros for a bit more balance?
Many studies show that a lot of people eating "keto" (which is different than eating low carb) are rarely in ketosis.
One day where you eat more carbs than usual will not affect your weight loss overall although you might have some temporary water retention. Others have noticed things like muscle cramping due to the muscles loading up on glycogen and pushing electrolytes out of the way, disrupting the nerve signals. See how your body reacts and adjust accordingly.4 -
I have to back up Knosti a little on this. If you want to do the keto way of eating, don't do "cheat" days. It's counterproductive. That would not be nutritional ketosis. Keto is not the same as other low carb plans. If you choose low carb, then maybe cheats or treats will work for you.
For some people, eating too much carbs creates the situation of having too much insulin in their blood, and this excess insulin will prohibit fat loss or make it really difficult (compared to someone without excess insulin). Everybody has their unique problems to figure out. One size does not necessarily fit all.
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5487935/)
How does one get excess insulin in a calorie deficit? The link you provided btw is not a study but merely a hypothesis.
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pierinifitness wrote: »The short answer is discover your sweet spot that works for you which may be different than what others share, and run with it. It’ll likely be that which cultivates and sustains consistency and discipline.
This. Everything these days has become like some kind of religion. No need to turn nutrition into that. Do what works best for you.4 -
I have to back up Knosti a little on this. If you want to do the keto way of eating, don't do "cheat" days. It's counterproductive. That would not be nutritional ketosis. Keto is not the same as other low carb plans. If you choose low carb, then maybe cheats or treats will work for you.
For some people, eating too much carbs creates the situation of having too much insulin in their blood, and this excess insulin will prohibit fat loss or make it really difficult (compared to someone without excess insulin). Everybody has their unique problems to figure out. One size does not necessarily fit all.
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5487935/)
How does one get excess insulin in a calorie deficit? The link you provided btw is not a study but merely a hypothesis.
It doesn't have to do with the calorie deficit. The pancreas produces insulin in response to a meal eaten. Some people's hormones get out of balance and the body produces excess insulin. Perfectly healthy people wouldn't have this problem. Diabetics do have this problem (except for cases where they are producing no insulin. A different problem). Some people who are not yet diabetic can be producing excess insulin. If you're insulin resistant, your insulin is not working properly. If in that case, you eat a moderate carbohydrate meal, your pancreas produces insulin to move the glucose from the blood into your various cells for energy, but it isn't working, the glucose is still there, so the pancreas secretes more insulin... If the insulin cannot get the glucose out of the blood into useful areas, it will store it as fat. Or, ultimately, excess glucose is removed from the blood by the kidneys. But this is not the case in healthy people with normal hormone levels.
Not to derail from the OP's question, but you asked. Just trying to be a voice of reason with regard to keto, because I see misinformation (or misunderstanding) from both passionate keto'ers and anti-keto'ers. Not that I have all the answers, I can admit. As a recently diagnosed diabetic, I've been doing a lot of reading about it, plus diabetes education class and discussion with my doctor. There isn't complete consensus from doctors about treating insulin resistance or diabetes, but it seems like the more we learn about insulin and the endocrine system, it shows that these hormone imbalances are almost kind of like carbohydrate intolerance in some people's bodies. So, compare to gluten intolerance. Some people must avoid gluten. Others avoid it for personal reasons. Other people enjoy all the gluten they desire with no consequences. The problem is that keto has a rep as being a fad diet, a "lose weight quick scheme". But there are cases where it really is helpful.4 -
The OP made no mention of being insulin resistant or T2D. Insulin is not the base problem nor are carbs. The base problem with those that are insulin resistant or T2D is being overweight in the vast majority of cases.
In healthy people, as you acknowledge, insulin is not an issue. In those that are insulin resistant or T2D, there is some benefit to reducing carbs as well as rigorous exercise and Intermittent Fasting. But the primary driver of improvement will be reducing body weight and body fat. For those that are a healthy body weight and with a normally functioning endocrine system, they don't need to consider insulin at all because it is doing exactly what it should do.
These things often become a matter of mistaking the symptom for the problem. Insulin resistance is the symptom. Being overweight is the problem.7 -
sixtosounds wrote: »...This. Everything these days has become like some kind of religion. No need to turn nutrition into that. Do what works best for you.
Not really. If you eat more calories than you expend, you gain weight. If you eat less calories than you expend, you lose weight. It's really as simple as that. And it's what works for everyone who actually does it. The rest is nonsense and excuses.
Low carb diets (especially those based on animal fat and protein) are generally not healthy, although the mere fact that there is some calories restriction makes many lose weight initially, while they are "religious" about it. It can also cause cardiac problems.
Complex carbs, like whole grains, or vegetables, or fruits, are actually healthier than most foods. Diets in Blue Zones are generally made up mostly from carbs -- for example, mid-20th century Okinawans consumed over 80% carbs (largely yam-based), about 9% protein and very little fat, but they also consumed about 80% of the total calories consumed on the mainland.
So, again, if you want to lose weight, it's about calorie deficit. That works for everyone.
Good luck.
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Being in ketosis isn't necessary for weight loss, so even if you're kicked out for a few days it shouldn't be a problem if your calories are controlled. If you enjoy the food and feel it helps you stay within calories, then it's a good choice for you. I would be more concerned about the way it affects your energy to keep jumping in and out of ketosis, but as long as you're logging accurately you should lose as expected regardless of your choice of diet/cheats. Cheat days are okay if they help you stay the course, but make sure you're also logging them as accurately as you can. You don't need to be in a deficit on your cheat days, but you need to be in a deficit over time to lose weight so be careful not to wipe out your weekly deficit in one day.2
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