Supplements
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Depends on what you've been diagnosed as deficient or lacking in?scottyaus2732 wrote: »Boldknee I to have wasted money over the years on supplements. One if the reasons for this topic.
Allot of vitamin D for me being in a sunny part of Australia with a convertible as an everyday car. Vitamin D is the least of my concerns.
Not getting enough protein? Supplement your diet with a protein powder. Iron deficient? Take an iron supplement tablet.
Unless you're deficient or lacking in a specific nutrient and therefore need a 'supplement' to meet recommendations than I'd say any money spent on supplements is wasted.5 -
I'll have a go at playing too:
Goals - gainz
Supps used - magnesium before bed. Creatine before gym (but sometimes I forget). vegan protein powder when I need it or in my oats because yummy protein oats.
Now, in the past I have been prescribed a plethora of supps and most have been an absolute waste of money.
BCAA - waste of money, Glutamine - waste of money, Fish Oil - made me nauseous and I eat enough oily fish in my diet anyway so redundant unpleasant waste of money, a tonne of other expensive pills that I can't even recall exactly what they were - made no difference when I took them to when I didn't (this was stuff a coach told me to take). Green powder crap - waste of money. Super concentrate red berry powder thing - waste of money. BAckground to this - coach had me on stupid restrictive bodybuilder diet and instead of me eating sardines (because oh no! it's not chicken breast) I'd have to take fish oil instead. ANd so on and so forth. So basically all the stuff i wasn't eating I was having in supplement form.
I'd rather eat a healthy varied diet and not have to take a bazillion supplements.5 -
A fairly considered response born through trial and error. Out of curiosity have you had blood panels done?1
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scottyaus2732 wrote: »A fairly considered response born through trial and error. Out of curiosity have you had blood panels done?
If you're asking me? Yes I do my bloods every year. I'm actually due for my new batch now, I better go book my dr appointment!
Usually everything is fine - more than fine even. Cholesterol is so good it's above the good for the good one (as in even less than the minimum) and below the bad for the bad one. Like not in the recommended window even. I have had increased urea since the whole eating more protein thing started - not dangerously high but above the recommended by a little bit. Hormones all good, vitamins all good. Sometimes my iron a bit low but nothing that doesn't get quickly fixed with iron tablets every few days and or an increase in me eating irony things like liver (yum!)
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Depends on what you've been diagnosed as deficient or lacking in?scottyaus2732 wrote: »Allot of vitamin D for me being in a sunny part of Australia with a convertible as an everyday car. Vitamin D is the least of my concerns.
Not getting enough protein? Supplement your diet with a protein powder. Iron deficient? Take an iron supplement tablet.
Unless you're deficient or lacking in a specific nutrient and therefore need a 'supplement' to meet recommendations than I'd say any money spent on supplements is wasted.
Re: vitamin D.
I was having significant joint and muscle pain. My doctor was running an autoimmune panel and added in the vitamin D test, just to check. I have fairish skin, live in the US South, ate adequate foods with vitamin D, and was outdoors walking an hour most days (poor sunscreen use, too). I thought it was a little silly to run the test. Turns out my vitamin D levels were incredibly low! Took about 3 months of supplements to help with pain. Now I take a maintenance dose and my levels are doing okay. I have no idea why my skin now does a poor job converting sun to vitamin D, but I'm so glad my doctor ran the blood test.
Re: Supplements are only for deficiencies
While I agree for the most part, this is an over-simplification. For example, scientists ran long-term double-blind trials on supplementation for macular degeneration (AREDS & AREDS2). The final formula does not fix a deficiency, but rather are high doses of antioxidants that seem to slow down the progression of a disease that has no cure and eventually leads to blindness. When my GERD (reflux) was at it's worse, I was lax on taking my eye supplements and my next eye appt showed that the disease had progressed. I am now extremely careful to take them daily.
It would be more correct to say that supplements are warranted to correct medically found deficiencies AND to treat diagnosed medical conditions when the supplements have been proven to help by well done scientific studies. Not as pithy, but more accurate.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
Didn’t follow format so I know nothing about you or your goals. But that is not that important.
Mount an argument for it.
What does "that" refer to?
Post 4
The entire pyramid? Not some specific element of it? I'm not sure I understand what saying the entire pyramid is "not that important" means. Are you saying that you disagree that calories, macronutrients, and micronutrients are more important to nutrition than meal time and supplements?
She/he is saying it's not relevant to the original post.1 -
scottyaus2732 wrote: »1. Goals
2. Must have supplements
3. Good to have supplements
4. Waste of time supplements.
Bodybuilding - Currently on a slow slow cut @ 255lbs, I call my current condition fluffy
D3 and Magnesium Bys
Protein to make numbers
Almost ALL of them in my opinion, unless you've had a blood test done or doctor advised I view them as a waste of $$$. I've tried so many different things noticed no difference in body composition or general well being. Majority of supplement companies do put in things that are "good" for you but the amounts are under dosed... so again what's the point? (I made a similar comment yesterday when speaking about pre-workouts)
here's an example - Cucurmin $50 for a bottle of 120 pills ...ingredients Turmeric / black pepper... so I just need to go to the bulk foods store and can buy the same amount of Turmeric for $3-$4 add it to my shakes and make them spicy. - I did this for awhile noticed no difference again but just an example of a rip off/ waste of time and $
I'm always open to learning more, I don't think I know everything just always lean towards professional services and help from professionals apposed to opinions kind of thing.
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Depends on what you've been diagnosed as deficient or lacking in?scottyaus2732 wrote: »Allot of vitamin D for me being in a sunny part of Australia with a convertible as an everyday car. Vitamin D is the least of my concerns.
Not getting enough protein? Supplement your diet with a protein powder. Iron deficient? Take an iron supplement tablet.
Unless you're deficient or lacking in a specific nutrient and therefore need a 'supplement' to meet recommendations than I'd say any money spent on supplements is wasted.
Re: vitamin D.
I was having significant joint and muscle pain. My doctor was running an autoimmune panel and added in the vitamin D test, just to check. I have fairish skin, live in the US South, ate adequate foods with vitamin D, and was outdoors walking an hour most days (poor sunscreen use, too). I thought it was a little silly to run the test. Turns out my vitamin D levels were incredibly low! Took about 3 months of supplements to help with pain. Now I take a maintenance dose and my levels are doing okay. I have no idea why my skin now does a poor job converting sun to vitamin D, but I'm so glad my doctor ran the blood test.
I read something somewhere, certainly can’t cite it, that said we only get enough sun in the middle of the day in the middle of summer in mid south to count. The rest of the time the sun is too low in the sky for us to get full benefit.
Was looking because I am very fair, spend quite a bit of time outside, and had low D.1 -
1. Currently my goals are different, but typically... muscle gain (in surplus), muscle retention (in cut)
2. Multivitamin (pre/post natal), vitamin D, fish oil
3. Protein powder as needed. I always wanted to try creatine but I was either nursing or pregnant so never had the chance
4. For me personally, everything else.
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Tedebearduff wrote: »
Bodybuilding - Currently on a slow slow cut @ 255lbs, I call my current condition fluffy
D3 and Magnesium Bys
Protein to make numbers
Almost ALL of them in my opinion, unless you've had a blood test done or doctor advised I view them as a waste of $$$. I've tried so many different things noticed no difference in body composition or general well being. Majority of supplement companies do put in things that are "good" for you but the amounts are under dosed... so again what's the point? (I made a similar comment yesterday when speaking about pre-workouts)
here's an example - Cucurmin $50 for a bottle of 120 pills ...ingredients Turmeric / black pepper... so I just need to go to the bulk foods store and can buy the same amount of Turmeric for $3-$4 add it to my shakes and make them spicy. - I did this for awhile noticed no difference again but just an example of a rip off/ waste of time and $
I'm always open to learning more, I don't think I know everything just always lean towards professional services and help from professionals apposed to opinions kind of thing.
The problem with curcumin is the dose you need to see an effect and the associated cost. The other problem is that if you take curcumin alone it's not well absorbed by the body. That's why if you buy capsules they generally come with some other ingredient like black pepper, which contains piperine, which helps the body absorb the curcumin. Otherwise it goes straight through you.
One more thing, if you buy turmeric it contains about 2% by volume of curcumin, which is really what yields the health benefits. So in order to get the recommended dose of curcumin, 500-1000mg, you need to eat 25000-50000mg, or 25-50 grams, of turmeric a day. And you need to mix that with something that will make your body absorb it better, like black pepper. That's a LOT of turmeric. All of that adds up to the reason it's not cheap in pill form.
However, curcumin has some pretty solid scientific evidence of it's efficacy for reducing inflammation and arthritis pain, among other ailments. https://examine.com/supplements/curcumin/. Still, it's just not worth it for me. That *kitten* is expensive!
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corinasue1143 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »Goal: 47 year old male looking to improve health markers and recomp body. 103kg about 20 percent BF, currently 109 kg and 28 percent BF. I still play sport (Masters AFL) and I want to be a beast on the field.
Must Haves: Magnesium, MCT’s (keto diet), a greens supplement, Adrenal switch, a general multi and Life Cykle mushroom extracts. Best quality food I can afford.
Nice to Haves: thinking about a desiccated liver tablet as no one in my house will eat liver with me. CBD products look interesting and I want a hormonal panel done and maybe TRT or HRT.
Waste of Time: Not sure I can put anything in here as people have different goals and needs, but are interested in other people’s decisions.
Cheers.
I despised the beef liver my mom used to make us growing up and always feed it to the dog when my mom stepped out of the dining room.
Because of my anemia, I do want to eat more iron rich foods, and liver tops the list of good heme sources of iron. I like liverwurst, but it's quite high in fat and I'd prefer something higher in protein.
I've started making chicken liver pate recently, and while I don't like the taste as much as liverwurst, it's edible. (This may sounds like dubious praise, but considering I am a hater, it's actually high praise.)
The recipe called for a half stick of butter; I used a non-stick pan and reduced the butter to 21 g. 2 oz has 101 calories and 24% of my RDA of iron. It didn't end up being higher in protein, but as it has considerably less fat than my liverwurst, it also has less calories.
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1012954-creamy-chicken-liver-pate
We all love liver. This is how my mom made it. Caramelize onions. Cook liver until almost/barely done. She ground both liver and onions in a meat grinder, but how about a food processor. Put in a loaf pan, cover with bacon. Bake til bacon is done. We ate it like liverwurst.
DRAT! Made another batch today, too late for the bacon step. Will definitely try that next time.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »Goal: 47 year old male looking to improve health markers and recomp body. 103kg about 20 percent BF, currently 109 kg and 28 percent BF. I still play sport (Masters AFL) and I want to be a beast on the field.
Must Haves: Magnesium, MCT’s (keto diet), a greens supplement, Adrenal switch, a general multi and Life Cykle mushroom extracts. Best quality food I can afford.
Nice to Haves: thinking about a desiccated liver tablet as no one in my house will eat liver with me. CBD products look interesting and I want a hormonal panel done and maybe TRT or HRT.
Waste of Time: Not sure I can put anything in here as people have different goals and needs, but are interested in other people’s decisions.
Cheers.
I despised the beef liver my mom used to make us growing up and always feed it to the dog when my mom stepped out of the dining room.
Because of my anemia, I do want to eat more iron rich foods, and liver tops the list of good heme sources of iron. I like liverwurst, but it's quite high in fat and I'd prefer something higher in protein.
I've started making chicken liver pate recently, and while I don't like the taste as much as liverwurst, it's edible. (This may sounds like dubious praise, but considering I am a hater, it's actually high praise.)
The recipe called for a half stick of butter; I used a non-stick pan and reduced the butter to 21 g. 2 oz has 101 calories and 24% of my RDA of iron. It didn't end up being higher in protein, but as it has considerably less fat than my liverwurst, it also has less calories.
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1012954-creamy-chicken-liver-pate
We all love liver. This is how my mom made it. Caramelize onions. Cook liver until almost/barely done. She ground both liver and onions in a meat grinder, but how about a food processor. Put in a loaf pan, cover with bacon. Bake til bacon is done. We ate it like liverwurst.
Sounds good, but like a lot of work when I can buy liverwurst. (I do cook liver with caramelized onions, but then I just eat it.) But you've inspired me to grill some onions to add to my next liverwurst sandwich.
The Bittman recipe made 26 oz for the same cost as 12 oz of Wellshire liverwurst, so there's that. Plus I like to cook
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1. Goals - lose weight and feel good
2. Must have supplements - prenatal as directed by my doctor. Previously took glucosamine and chondroitin for a medical problem, and will start taking again if problem resurfaces.
3. Acidophilus for painful gas during TOM (no, yogurt doesn't get the job done)
4. Anything that doesn't demonstrate actual improvement or treat a medical problem for me.1 -
So far the only trends I see are good food is number one.
Vitamin D
And mostly people tend to think supps are kinda a waste of time unless you know you need them.
Not what I was expecting, but why I started thread.2 -
Tedebearduff wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
Didn’t follow format so I know nothing about you or your goals. But that is not that important.
Mount an argument for it.
What does "that" refer to?
Post 4
The entire pyramid? Not some specific element of it? I'm not sure I understand what saying the entire pyramid is "not that important" means. Are you saying that you disagree that calories, macronutrients, and micronutrients are more important to nutrition than meal time and supplements?
She/he is saying it's not relevant to the original post.
The sentence I asked OP about didn't mention relevance; it spoke about importance. I'm not sure this is worth pursuing, especially with a third-party offering explanations of what a post by the OP meant.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Tedebearduff wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
Didn’t follow format so I know nothing about you or your goals. But that is not that important.
Mount an argument for it.
What does "that" refer to?
Post 4
The entire pyramid? Not some specific element of it? I'm not sure I understand what saying the entire pyramid is "not that important" means. Are you saying that you disagree that calories, macronutrients, and micronutrients are more important to nutrition than meal time and supplements?
She/he is saying it's not relevant to the original post.
The sentence I asked OP about didn't mention relevance; it spoke about importance. I'm not sure this is worth pursuing, especially with a third-party offering explanations of what a post by the OP meant.
I will clarify.
I started this thread to get considered information that I and others could read and extrapolate. I set up a template that I thought could best achieve that.
Before I even got a chance to put my own thoughts in I got a diagram. Now no doubt that the diagram is meaningful, but it wasn’t meaningful to achieve what I was trying to achieve.
Let me explain. I am in a meal tracker which tracks calories macros etc etc. I stated that I was on a ketogenic diet. All should suggest that I have considered things like the picture demonstrates and I was narrowing down on supplements.
None the less and as stated in first post I was interested in considered opinions do I asked the poster to make and argument for what they posted. I got no such reply.
Hope that helps you understand what I meant and my mindset.3 -
scottyaus2732 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Tedebearduff wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »scottyaus2732 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »
Didn’t follow format so I know nothing about you or your goals. But that is not that important.
Mount an argument for it.
What does "that" refer to?
Post 4
The entire pyramid? Not some specific element of it? I'm not sure I understand what saying the entire pyramid is "not that important" means. Are you saying that you disagree that calories, macronutrients, and micronutrients are more important to nutrition than meal time and supplements?
She/he is saying it's not relevant to the original post.
The sentence I asked OP about didn't mention relevance; it spoke about importance. I'm not sure this is worth pursuing, especially with a third-party offering explanations of what a post by the OP meant.
I will clarify.
I started this thread to get considered information that I and others could read and extrapolate. I set up a template that I thought could best achieve that.
Before I even got a chance to put my own thoughts in I got a diagram. Now no doubt that the diagram is meaningful, but it wasn’t meaningful to achieve what I was trying to achieve.
Let me explain. I am in a meal tracker which tracks calories macros etc etc. I stated that I was on a ketogenic diet. All should suggest that I have considered things like the picture demonstrates and I was narrowing down on supplements.
None the less and as stated in first post I was interested in considered opinions do I asked the poster to make and argument for what they posted. I got no such reply.
Hope that helps you understand what I meant and my mindset.
I missed the keto part, but a guy here at work who does keto says that you should use that "diet rite" salt - it's a salt with potassium in it - and lots of it because of something to do with keto-stuff.
Sorry, he did explain it to me but I tend to let keto things go in one ear and out the other. I do remember that what he was explaining to me made sense at the time though. Something perhaps about having to replenish potassium because of too much fat. I don't know. Don't quote me on it, but he's been keto-ing for ages, has lost a tonne of weight (still going - he's still 40-sh kilos off his goal weight), and he's a PhD student who researchers stuff, so I'm assuming he researched this potassium salt thing and it's necessity in keto diets.
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You dump water on keto and have to work to stay hydrated.
Sodium, Potasium and Magnesium are important to to be replenished.
They are all electrolytes.
I am eating more high quality salt so Sodium is taken care of.
Taken and named Magenesium as a must supplement so it’s all good.
But I am struggling to get the Potasium intake. Have been looking at it and it’s not were it needs to be.2 -
They do sell it here in Australia as shown above but they have reduced the sodium content which is also required. Cheers for the suggestion though, it was worth following up.0 -
As an FYI and in the interest of sharing current best practice.
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