Introducing myself to Keto
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »Not to argue with anyone's personal experience but I have no problem incorporating higher carb fruits and vegetables into my diet in a satisfying (to me) way. If you're new to eating a low carb/ketogenic diet instead of working from a list of foods you can't have go by what actually fits your carb limit.
So what if one thing you want is nearly all of your carbs for the day? The carbs in green vegetables are negligible.
If I wanted that 22 net carb fruit smoothie in the morning (I wouldn't I'd be starving) I'd stick to green vegetables for dinner. A quart of strawberries, a banana or a couple of oranges can fit perfectly fine. If I was having beef and black bean chili for dinner I'd have something lower carb for breakfast. If I'm roasting vegetables I'd use a small potato, some onion and more broccoli. If I was making a flour thickened gravy that would be paired with meat and a green vegetable instead of a starchy one.
Don't take anyone else's word for what you can and can't eat. Look at the foods you like the most and see if you can't make them work.
I'm kind of the same...I call it my version of keto...I still come in very low carb compared to standard American diet, but if I want a peach, I eat a peach, nectarines, plums, apples, cherries, tomatoes, etc. Almost all veggies still on my menu, with every meal.
But I cut potatoes, breads, certain sweeteners, grains, beans, legumes, and certain oils.
I have extreme sensitivities to these.
But most fruits and most veggies don't bloat or hurt me. So, I eat them. If something causes bloat and pain it gets eliminated from diet. Like sriracha, love the stuff, but my god it causes me pain.
When it comes to menu planning, to each his own.
The only thing I miss is bread... I caved the other day and had a dinner roll my fiance home-baked...I paid for it, bloat! I hate my illness!
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »Not to argue with anyone's personal experience but I have no problem incorporating higher carb fruits and vegetables into my diet in a satisfying (to me) way. If you're new to eating a low carb/ketogenic diet instead of working from a list of foods you can't have go by what actually fits your carb limit.
So what if one thing you want is nearly all of your carbs for the day? The carbs in green vegetables are negligible.
If I wanted that 22 net carb fruit smoothie in the morning (I wouldn't I'd be starving) I'd stick to green vegetables for dinner. A quart of strawberries, a banana or a couple of oranges can fit perfectly fine. If I was having beef and black bean chili for dinner I'd have something lower carb for breakfast. If I'm roasting vegetables I'd use a small potato, some onion and more broccoli. If I was making a flour thickened gravy that would be paired with meat and a green vegetable instead of a starchy one.
Don't take anyone else's word for what you can and can't eat. Look at the foods you like the most and see if you can't make them work.
It's not just 22 net carbs, it is also 33 g protein and 13 g fat
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Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Hi keto! What? No fruit? Bye keto! Lol. Seriously how it goes well for you.
I don't promote keto to others, I just don't think it's sustainable for most cutting breads, rice, grains, beans, legumes, and potatoes.
But the fruit thing is a misconception about keto. I've been on Keto for two months, I snack on fruit daily, I also eat veggies daily. Because a lot veggies and fruits have fiber, I get in plenty of fruits and veggies, subtract fiber, and still consume low net carbs.
You may be surprised by how differently some posters here define "plenty of fruits and veggies" and how their definition would not work for keto
I realize berries are low carb, but I wouldn't want to limit myself to berries. I also like bananas, especially in my fruit and veggie smoothie (today's was 22 g net carbs and that was only half of a smallish banana, plus strawberries, kale, Swiss chard, etc.)
And it's peach season! Nom nom nom.
I eat peaches, nectarines, plums, apples, tomatoes, avocados, cherries, I dislike bananas (just taste--got sick of as a kid). I eat fruit daily. I try to eat veggies with every meal.
Maybe you have a different idea of the goal carbs than many doing keto.
When I tried it, I decided that under 50 net was probably fine, but because under 20 was so often recommended I tried to keep it at around 60 total carbs/35 net carbs. I ate NO fruit, and either a serving of nuts or a serving of greek yogurt per day, and beyond that got my carbs from non-starchy veg. I was always at the limit of my goal, and had to eat less veg than I otherwise would to get there. So when people talk about being under 20 or 25 g net carbs and eating fruits and veg and also include various keto treats (which do have some carbs), I assume their idea of plenty of fruit and veg is very different from mine. And with the fruit I really wonder how it's possible.
I think the very low carb, don't bother about whether you are in ketosis or not, and sometimes be more flexible is a great approach for some -- I think it makes a lot more sense than the standard recs for keto -- but I don't think it's possible to just ignore that most of the popular keto sites that people are following when they start are recommending that one keep below 20 or 25% or 5% of total calories (5% of 1600=20 g net carbs, 5% of 1200=15 g net carbs). Personally, I think a percentage should be calculated on maintenance carbs -- so more like 5% of 2000 = 50 g net carbs, which is where I got my number above, but that it not ordinarily what I see recommended here by people doing keto, or on the sites that are recommended to newbies.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Not to argue with anyone's personal experience but I have no problem incorporating higher carb fruits and vegetables into my diet in a satisfying (to me) way. If you're new to eating a low carb/ketogenic diet instead of working from a list of foods you can't have go by what actually fits your carb limit.
So what if one thing you want is nearly all of your carbs for the day? The carbs in green vegetables are negligible.
If I wanted that 22 net carb fruit smoothie in the morning (I wouldn't I'd be starving) I'd stick to green vegetables for dinner. A quart of strawberries, a banana or a couple of oranges can fit perfectly fine. If I was having beef and black bean chili for dinner I'd have something lower carb for breakfast. If I'm roasting vegetables I'd use a small potato, some onion and more broccoli. If I was making a flour thickened gravy that would be paired with meat and a green vegetable instead of a starchy one.
Don't take anyone else's word for what you can and can't eat. Look at the foods you like the most and see if you can't make them work.
It's not just 22 net carbs, it is also 33 g protein and 13 g fat
I'd be chewing my leg off an hour later, though.
Always been someone who needs to actually *eat* my calories to get any satiety bang for the buck.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Not to argue with anyone's personal experience but I have no problem incorporating higher carb fruits and vegetables into my diet in a satisfying (to me) way. If you're new to eating a low carb/ketogenic diet instead of working from a list of foods you can't have go by what actually fits your carb limit.
So what if one thing you want is nearly all of your carbs for the day? The carbs in green vegetables are negligible.
If I wanted that 22 net carb fruit smoothie in the morning (I wouldn't I'd be starving) I'd stick to green vegetables for dinner. A quart of strawberries, a banana or a couple of oranges can fit perfectly fine. If I was having beef and black bean chili for dinner I'd have something lower carb for breakfast. If I'm roasting vegetables I'd use a small potato, some onion and more broccoli. If I was making a flour thickened gravy that would be paired with meat and a green vegetable instead of a starchy one.
Don't take anyone else's word for what you can and can't eat. Look at the foods you like the most and see if you can't make them work.
It's not just 22 net carbs, it is also 33 g protein and 13 g fat
I'm sure it's delicious and filling for you!0 -
I've been keto for over 2 and a half years and I do feel it's sustainable, but may not be for everyone. For me if I eat sugar, I go crazy and can't stop so eliminating sugar from my diet was the only way I lost the weight. I also feel better than I've ever felt and have more energy now than I've ever had, but I definitely don't think that keto is really for everyone, but I do share the benefits I've gotten out of it and let others decide for themselves if they want to try it but you definitely want to give it a good 6-8 weeks before you throw in the towel and think it's not working, you need to be adapted to it to see the benefits as it is a major metabolic shift.3
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Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Hi keto! What? No fruit? Bye keto! Lol. Seriously how it goes well for you.
I don't promote keto to others, I just don't think it's sustainable for most cutting breads, rice, grains, beans, legumes, and potatoes.
But the fruit thing is a misconception about keto. I've been on Keto for two months, I snack on fruit daily, I also eat veggies daily. Because a lot veggies and fruits have fiber, I get in plenty of fruits and veggies, subtract fiber, and still consume low net carbs.
You may be surprised by how differently some posters here define "plenty of fruits and veggies" and how their definition would not work for keto
I realize berries are low carb, but I wouldn't want to limit myself to berries. I also like bananas, especially in my fruit and veggie smoothie (today's was 22 g net carbs and that was only half of a smallish banana, plus strawberries, kale, Swiss chard, etc.)
And it's peach season! Nom nom nom.
I eat peaches, nectarines, plums, apples, tomatoes, avocados, cherries, I dislike bananas (just taste--got sick of as a kid). I eat fruit daily. I try to eat veggies with every meal.
Maybe you have a different idea of the goal carbs than many doing keto.
When I tried it, I decided that under 50 net was probably fine, but because under 20 was so often recommended I tried to keep it at around 60 total carbs/35 net carbs. I ate NO fruit, and either a serving of nuts or a serving of greek yogurt per day, and beyond that got my carbs from non-starchy veg. I was always at the limit of my goal, and had to eat less veg than I otherwise would to get there. So when people talk about being under 20 or 25 g net carbs and eating fruits and veg and also include various keto treats (which do have some carbs), I assume their idea of plenty of fruit and veg is very different from mine. And with the fruit I really wonder how it's possible.
I think the very low carb, don't bother about whether you are in ketosis or not, and sometimes be more flexible is a great approach for some -- I think it makes a lot more sense than the standard recs for keto -- but I don't think it's possible to just ignore that most of the popular keto sites that people are following when they start are recommending that one keep below 20 or 25% or 5% of total calories (5% of 1600=20 g net carbs, 5% of 1200=15 g net carbs). Personally, I think a percentage should be calculated on maintenance carbs -- so more like 5% of 2000 = 50 g net carbs, which is where I got my number above, but that it not ordinarily what I see recommended here by people doing keto, or on the sites that are recommended to newbies.
I'm the same. I can't go as low as most in keto groups doing keto for weightloss. I have to have fruits and veggies. You are correct, most trying to lose go super low, now the magic number I always see is under 15 net carbs...I cannot do it.
There's also a push it seems in groups to do carnivore diet....
I'm trying to up my proteins and carbs while lowering fats (more of a balance instead of being super high fat intake); I could never go carnivore. I'm hoping to slowly up carbs more and shift into maintenance. But it will still be only fruit and veggie carbs (and rice...I don't think rice makes me bloat).
An observation (I notice patterns with everything in life).
And I say this a lot when talking about keto, I notice the friends' diaries, who eat Keto for medical problems, look a lot like mine, fruits and veggies daily. The people using keto as a weight-loss plan, tend to be more fats and proteins, zero fruits, little to no veggies.
The people doing keto, for the most part, tend to be in one of these two categories.
Of course, not a black and white world, there's always exceptions.
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Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Hi keto! What? No fruit? Bye keto! Lol. Seriously how it goes well for you.
I don't promote keto to others, I just don't think it's sustainable for most cutting breads, rice, grains, beans, legumes, and potatoes.
But the fruit thing is a misconception about keto. I've been on Keto for two months, I snack on fruit daily, I also eat veggies daily. Because a lot veggies and fruits have fiber, I get in plenty of fruits and veggies, subtract fiber, and still consume low net carbs.
You may be surprised by how differently some posters here define "plenty of fruits and veggies" and how their definition would not work for keto
I realize berries are low carb, but I wouldn't want to limit myself to berries. I also like bananas, especially in my fruit and veggie smoothie (today's was 22 g net carbs and that was only half of a smallish banana, plus strawberries, kale, Swiss chard, etc.)
And it's peach season! Nom nom nom.
I eat peaches, nectarines, plums, apples, tomatoes, avocados, cherries, I dislike bananas (just taste--got sick of as a kid). I eat fruit daily. I try to eat veggies with every meal.
Maybe you have a different idea of the goal carbs than many doing keto.
When I tried it, I decided that under 50 net was probably fine, but because under 20 was so often recommended I tried to keep it at around 60 total carbs/35 net carbs. I ate NO fruit, and either a serving of nuts or a serving of greek yogurt per day, and beyond that got my carbs from non-starchy veg. I was always at the limit of my goal, and had to eat less veg than I otherwise would to get there. So when people talk about being under 20 or 25 g net carbs and eating fruits and veg and also include various keto treats (which do have some carbs), I assume their idea of plenty of fruit and veg is very different from mine. And with the fruit I really wonder how it's possible.
I think the very low carb, don't bother about whether you are in ketosis or not, and sometimes be more flexible is a great approach for some -- I think it makes a lot more sense than the standard recs for keto -- but I don't think it's possible to just ignore that most of the popular keto sites that people are following when they start are recommending that one keep below 20 or 25% or 5% of total calories (5% of 1600=20 g net carbs, 5% of 1200=15 g net carbs). Personally, I think a percentage should be calculated on maintenance carbs -- so more like 5% of 2000 = 50 g net carbs, which is where I got my number above, but that it not ordinarily what I see recommended here by people doing keto, or on the sites that are recommended to newbies.
I'm the same. I can't go as low as most in keto groups doing keto for weightloss. I have to have fruits and veggies. You are correct, most trying to lose go super low, now the magic number I always see if under 15 net carbs...I cannot do it.
There's also a push it seems in groups to do carnivore diet....
I'm trying to up my proteins and carbs while lowering fats (more of a balance instead of being super high fat intake) I could never go carnivore. I'm hoping to slowly up carbs more and shift into maintenance. But it will still be only fruit and veggie carbs (and rice...I don't think rice makes me bloat).
An observation (I notice patterns with everything in life).
And I say this a lot when talking about keto, I notice the friends' diaries, who eat Keto for medical problems, look a lot like mine, fruits and veggies daily. The people using keto as a weight-loss plan, tend to be more fats and proteins, zero fruits, little to no veggies.
The people doing keto, for the most part, tend to be in one of these two categories.
Of course, not a black and white world, there's always exceptions.
Currently with my cuts, I have been doing keto. I have found that the key is strong planning and limiting the types of fruits I consume. For example, while I maintain, my typical fruits are kiwi, apples, and grapes. But while I do keto, it's mostly a 50-100g of blackberries, raspberries, strawberries or blueberries a day. But I have also replaced starches with things like jicama or cruciferous veggies. I also found I have incorporated chia seeds into my routine (I make a delicious protein chia seed pudding). Personally, I just can't go without eating some fruit. Overall though, when I was tracking, I was averaging 30 net carbs and about 50-60g total, with some days as low as 20g net.
I don't really get the whole carnivore thing. It's just the latest trend. What I would caution is the lack of fiber. I know people make the assumption that fiber isn't needed based on some hypotheses out there, but the evidence I have seen around a gut microbiome doesn't seem to support that assumption. Considering fiber is much more beneficial than just make you go to the bathroom, I would caution anyone before going carnivore.4 -
naomianne69 wrote: »Yes, it's only been two weeks. I may continue on wards. I am weighing tomorrow, so will see. Thanks for the information.
This is kind of a nitpick, but remember that day-to-day weight is not going to tell you anything. If it's been two weeks, weighing in tomorrow is only 15 days instead of 14.
If you want to know whether keto is working for you, you should be able to tell realistically in 4-8 weeks, i.e. enough time to establish a trend and not make judgments on normal fluctuations.2 -
Right now I'm leaning towards healthy people have healthy gut biomes. Anecdotal but more than one carnivore has shown greater diversity since adopting carnivore which is pretty interesting -- I'd think it would be the opposite but that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Fascinating stuff!
As for what's "typical" I think it changes over time. I don't know anyone that still eats the same foods they started out eating.
For me, (after 6 months of calorie counting) I started just cutting out sugar and bread - felt great and I ended up eating a ketogenic level of carbs. And then I got into this weird mindset for awhile where less carbs were better and I started doing things like not using garlic & onion when I was cooking to save on the carbs. I realized that was insane so made it a point to eat as many carbs as I could and still maintain the benefits of low carb.
That lead to eating a plant heavy diet and after about 2 years of that foods I'd eaten all my life started making me sick (carrots, green pepper, pistacios and eggs). I cut those out, felt better and eventually stopped eating serving bowl sized portions of vegetables. Now today I typically eat way lower carb than I need to, feel great and can eat all of the foods without issue again.
It's a process.3 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Right now I'm leaning towards healthy people have healthy gut biomes. Anecdotal but more than one carnivore has shown greater diversity since adopting carnivore which is pretty interesting -- I'd think it would be the opposite but that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Fascinating stuff!
As for what's "typical" I think it changes over time. I don't know anyone that still eats the same foods they started out eating.
For me, (after 6 months of calorie counting) I started just cutting out sugar and bread - felt great and I ended up eating a ketogenic level of carbs. And then I got into this weird mindset for awhile where less carbs were better and I started doing things like not using garlic & onion when I was cooking to save on the carbs. I realized that was insane so made it a point to eat as many carbs as I could and still maintain the benefits of low carb.
That lead to eating a plant heavy diet and after about 2 years of that foods I'd eaten all my life started making me sick (carrots, green pepper, pistacios and eggs). I cut those out, felt better and eventually stopped eating serving bowl sized portions of vegetables. Now today I typically eat way lower carb than I need to, feel great and can eat all of the foods without issue again.
It's a process.
I would probably agree with you to a certain extent. If a person went from eating a highly caloric and processed diet a whole food diet, I would largely agree with you. But what I would be interested in, is comparing a well formulated diet (like a Mediterranean) vs a carnivore.
Having said that, it seems a lot of the research is still in it's infancy. But what got my interest was the below video.
https://youtu.be/6k_4OOf7lPg 3 -
Some interesting points from all!0
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Yes. Today I've kept under the limit to the carbs, just. As I've been sick I've only started my exercise routine, with my exercise bike again.
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In short in ketosis you are burning fat instead of sugars , so if you have fat you should be noticeably lose weight or inches.
Have a read of dietdoctor.com they lay it out plain and simple where you could be going wrong and add me if you like 👍
I do it for a few weeks then go on the low carb programme , it’s an app too and free, but my doc recommended it and recommended I shouldn’t do keto for too long because not having fruit can effect your kidney function 🤷🏻♀️
You don't need to consume fruit to have good kidney function. You can get all the minerals and vitamins from veggies.
Also, everyone is a fat burner. Its the most common source of fuel when not being very active. The oxidation rates are higher on keto only because you consume and store more dietary fat. So try not to buy into some the information found on diet doctor. Especially the nonsense about not counting calories.7 -
Yep. I see. So this is what I wanted to know. I am still happy with a low carb diet, with exercise and counting calories. But it wasn't what I expected. I thought that the weight would suddenly go down once I went into ketosis. Still. It's been interesting so far. It's given me a lot of help with doing the myfitnesspal, and so I expect to continue, bar the very very rare occasion when I'm at a social event, where that can't be helped.0
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naomianne69 wrote: »Yep. I see. So this is what I wanted to know. I am still happy with a low carb diet, with exercise and counting calories. But it wasn't what I expected. I thought that the weight would suddenly go down once I went into ketosis. Still. It's been interesting so far. It's given me a lot of help with doing the myfitnesspal, and so I expect to continue, bar the very very rare occasion when I'm at a social event, where that can't be helped.
Unfortunately, a lot of the keto sites out there are promoting bad science and frequently confuse fat oxidation with fat loss. So when people hear phrases like burn fat not sugar, they think it means body fat.... And it doesn't. Given how adaptive the human body is, you can store any nutrient... Otherwise, we wouldn't have survived this long.
Side note: what people don't tell you is how difficult it is to store carbs and protein into adipose. Since its an intensive process (meaning it takes a bunch of energy to do so), it doesn't happen unless it's required. This process is called de novo lipogenesis. And last overfeed study i saw, suggested it occurred less than 10% of the time. But what should be noted is that carba blunt fat oxidation, so if you eat high fat, high carb, it makes it easy to store the fatty acids since they won't be used for immediate energy requirements.4 -
Yes it's a bit too complicated for me! As long as the scales tell me it's working or not (diet and exercise) I am tending not to worry at the moment. We've got a celebration lunch for my husband today, Birthday, and the parents are pretty ok with my choice in diet.. I gather it's a steak house restaurant, and so that might suit me with the steak and vegies. Will see! Thanks for your great information about the Keto. This diet suits me more than the low fat, high carbs diet, and I accept that it's the latest trend. Currently I'm still in ketosis 0
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How do people, following a low carb diet, manage with occasions when they go out? For example, to a restaurant for a celebration? Do you allow time to 'get over it', and kick yourself into ketosis again with better choices later? or. do you find it hard and forget the diet, perhaps forever? or. do you just make adjustments to keep your choices within the KETO diet while at the restaurant? It is a normal part of life to people going out, and with me, anyway, I am trying to anticipate social events well before hand, and be aware of both the calories spent, and the low carb choices, a salad instead of chips as an example...?0
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if Keto helps someone eat less (caloric deficit) then it's effective as long as you're getting quality calories. It's not for everyone. If it's not for you that doesn't mean it's not for your neighbor. The important thing is to reduce calories.0
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