Timing matters. More calories in morning?
Replies
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LIFOtheparty wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »I don’t like eating in morning and am close to my goal so not something I will be trying. But if that was an easy jumpstart for people to start with, that would be amazing. Heard about it on an NPR podcast.
https://www.npr.org/2016/05/31/479754700/food-for-thought-the-subtle-forces-that-affect-your-appetiteNorthCascades wrote: »I eat most of my calories at dinner. I typically wake up feeling satisfied and don't eat breakfast. I've lost about 70 pounds.corinasue1143 wrote: »I eat the most calories at lunch most days. I wonder what they say about that?You lose weight with a caloric deficit. When you eat the calories makes no difference, as long as you can stick to the deficit.unstableunicorn wrote: »The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.
Please explain to me how anyone can disagree with each one of the above. For instance, NorthCascades, do they disagree that you eat most of calories at dinner? Did they check your diary? Or does someone who lives and works with you have an account here and know better? Or do they disagree with how much you’ve lost? Did they check your scales?
I was wondering this too lol. Apparently someone doesn't know what "disagree" means.
This is the internet.
"Disagree" means "did not say the exact same thing I would have said . . . or maybe did say it, but is clearly wrong anyway, because I don't like something they said yesterday."
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ChackoSupreme wrote: »Don't get lost in one off studies. If you're going to utilize studies to determine your diet you should utilize ones that have had repeated results.
A lot of "diet" science is finally being called out for the bunk it is.
-WHEN- you eat calories should entirely depend on what feels good to you. The important part for weight loss is that you are burning more calories than you consume.
I would suggest using black coffee and your fasting state in the morning to push you further into the day without eating. The further you can push out not eating, the less insulin your body will produce (which inevitably means fat storage if you're consuming a large number of calories earlier).
You should also always break your fast by starting with leafy greens or water vegetables as they cause the lowest insulin response. Then move on to proteins, then to carbs, then to sugar/fruit.
Black coffee and drinking a lot of water will help when you're feeling hungry but it isn't quite time to eat yet.
If this doesn't feel good (and it takes a while to adjust) or if you have blood-sugar issues, you should just try to stick to eating veggies for breakfast first for a month or two, including calorie restricting, and see where you get in like 60 days.
Remember that the chief factors that affect weight loss are insulin sensitivity, and that you are consuming fewer calories than you are burning.
I don't drink black coffee and I don't really eat carbs anymore so no water veggies here, I'll just go sit in the corner quietly with my 120lb self
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paperpudding wrote: »The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.
That is possible.
However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.
I don't completely agree. I think a sudden shift in calories to the morning could increase a person's NEAT but I think over time it would likely even back out and both groups would be losing around the same amount if they all remained compliant.
I think NEAT can happen in very subtle hard to track ways. Tapping your foot to a song might not even be something you realize you are doing.
Some people might shift their calories back and forth but I think once you know it is increasing your NEAT you may lose the less conscious aspects of it. I would rather stick to a firm routine so that my hunger cues are lined up with normal schedule and just work on increasing my NEAT in other ways. Easier is always better IMO.2 -
I imagine this could work well for some people. As for me, every neuron in my brain is unalteringly hardwired to expect and get a big, satisfying dinner between 6 and 7 pm. I will (and do) sacrifice other meals and snacks so that when I sit down to dinner, it's a feast. It's all about finding what works.2
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paperpudding wrote: »The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.
That is possible.
However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.
I don't completely agree. I think a sudden shift in calories to the morning could increase a person's NEAT but I think over time it would likely even back out and both groups would be losing around the same amount if they all remained compliant.
I think NEAT can happen in very subtle hard to track ways. Tapping your foot to a song might not even be something you realize you are doing.
Some people might shift their calories back and forth but I think once you know it is increasing your NEAT you may lose the less conscious aspects of it. I would rather stick to a firm routine so that my hunger cues are lined up with normal schedule and just work on increasing my NEAT in other ways. Easier is always better IMO.
Yes i get that subtle changes in NEAT could occur, I think I acknowledged that earlier.
However i still think any changes to what we would be doing regardless of eating or not eating the big breakfast (like going to work and doing same job that day) are too small to be meaningful
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Same!!! Low calorie dinner sounds mentally awful to me.I imagine this could work well for some people. As for me, every neuron in my brain is unalteringly hardwired to expect and get a big, satisfying dinner between 6 and 7 pm. I will (and do) sacrifice other meals and snacks so that when I sit down to dinner, it's a feast. It's all about finding what works.
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BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »I’ve just looked up that old adage ‘Breakfast like a King, Lunch like a Prince, Dine like a Pauper’
The version I heard was "Keep your breakfast for yourself, share you lunch with your friend and give you dinner to your enemy".
Given that I tend to have a cup of coffee in the morning then nothing else until dinner it goes without saying that I didn't pay any attention to this philosophy.0 -
Unfortunately when I eat more in the am, I crave all day. 250 cals max for breakfast for me1
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paperpudding wrote: »The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.
That is possible.
However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.
Actually, it's believed that eating breakfast can increase NEAT via increased fidgeting, faster walking, etc..
An increase in NEAT will do more than most people realize. A more energetic person who gets up from their chair with a bounce, fidgets all day, walks with an extra pep in their step is going to burn a lot more calories than someone who sits still, gets up slowly and mosies everywhere they walk.
To clarify, eating more in general can cause this. Of course, it follows that an increase in NEAT can be easily overshadowed by a surplus of calories.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.
That is possible.
However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.
I don't completely agree. I think a sudden shift in calories to the morning could increase a person's NEAT but I think over time it would likely even back out and both groups would be losing around the same amount if they all remained compliant.
I think NEAT can happen in very subtle hard to track ways. Tapping your foot to a song might not even be something you realize you are doing.
Some people might shift their calories back and forth but I think once you know it is increasing your NEAT you may lose the less conscious aspects of it. I would rather stick to a firm routine so that my hunger cues are lined up with normal schedule and just work on increasing my NEAT in other ways. Easier is always better IMO.
Yes i get that subtle changes in NEAT could occur, I think I acknowledged that earlier.
However i still think any changes to what we would be doing regardless of eating or not eating the big breakfast (like going to work and doing same job that day) are too small to be meaningful
The first time my NEAT climbed I only caught it because of my meticulous tracking. I started losing .3 pounds per week more than I had been. I dismissed it as over-logging but it was persistent for 6 weeks. I finally realized that because I had lost weight and I was feeling better I was moving more. It was all tiny things but it added up to an average of 150 calories per day.
In any event a study like this has to be repeated with stricter protocols and monitoring to be taken as fact. You can't leave gaps like compliance and energy expenditure variances because they are huge variables in all studies like this.4 -
I imagine this could work well for some people. As for me, every neuron in my brain is unalteringly hardwired to expect and get a big, satisfying dinner between 6 and 7 pm. I will (and do) sacrifice other meals and snacks so that when I sit down to dinner, it's a feast. It's all about finding what works.
I am almost never home before 7, and rarely eat dinner before 9 (I usually get home around 8 or after). But as a result I like a lighter dinner and tend to eat somewhat more at breakfast and/or lunch. I don't snack.
When I eat around 6 I also like a bigger dinner and tend to eat less earlier in the day.
There are so many variables with these things and I doubt any effect of timing overrules what works best for personal schedule, although I do find that it's harder to eat well when sleep is compromised and likely when one has a really irregular schedule like night shift, which is what some of these studies find.
I lost faster than expected when losing, despite eating dinner late, however.3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.
That is possible.
However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.
Actually, it's believed that eating breakfast can increase NEAT via increased fidgeting, faster walking, etc..
An increase in NEAT will do more than most people realize. A more energetic person who gets up from their chair with a bounce, fidgets all day, walks with an extra pep in their step is going to burn a lot more calories than someone who sits still, gets up slowly and mosies everywhere they walk.
To clarify, eating more in general can cause this. Of course, it follows that an increase in NEAT can be easily overshadowed by a surplus of calories.
Yes i know NEAT varies between people who are apparently doing same thing - because of sort of thing you describe.
but i still think the difference for individuals on eating or not eating a big breakfast whilst doing same things every day will be pretty minimal
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Your body doesn't care what time of day it is. It's your weekly calorie intake that matters. Personally I prefer to eat nothing in the morning and save my calories for night time when I'm hungry. It doesn't cause me to over eat at all. 12kg down and 3 to go2
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I would think this would have a great deal to do with when a person is active.
I'm active during the day and wind down at night, so 70% of my calories are ingested after 7 pm. It would suck trying to work out with a full stomach.
I have to call into question the scrutiny of such a "study". Academia needs a reformation.0 -
ChackoSupreme wrote: »Don't get lost in one off studies. If you're going to utilize studies to determine your diet you should utilize ones that have had repeated results.
A lot of "diet" science is finally being called out for the bunk it is.
-WHEN- you eat calories should entirely depend on what feels good to you. The important part for weight loss is that you are burning more calories than you consume.
I would suggest using black coffee and your fasting state in the morning to push you further into the day without eating. The further you can push out not eating, the less insulin your body will produce (which inevitably means fat storage if you're consuming a large number of calories earlier).
You should also always break your fast by starting with leafy greens or water vegetables as they cause the lowest insulin response. Then move on to proteins, then to carbs, then to sugar/fruit.
Black coffee and drinking a lot of water will help when you're feeling hungry but it isn't quite time to eat yet.
If this doesn't feel good (and it takes a while to adjust) or if you have blood-sugar issues, you should just try to stick to eating veggies for breakfast first for a month or two, including calorie restricting, and see where you get in like 60 days.
Remember that the chief factors that affect weight loss are insulin sensitivity, and that you are consuming fewer calories than you are burning.
I hate coffee in almost every form (using it in mop sauce and honey cake are two rare exceptions) and my typical breakfast is seedless grapes, Greek yogurt, and a granola bar. Except on Saturdays, when it's melon, a frosted shortbread, and some potato kugel. Hasn't stopped me from dropping 108lbs.5 -
ChackoSupreme wrote: »Don't get lost in one off studies. If you're going to utilize studies to determine your diet you should utilize ones that have had repeated results.
A lot of "diet" science is finally being called out for the bunk it is.
Remember that the chief factors that affect weight loss are insulin sensitivity, and that you are consuming fewer calories than you are burning.
Consuming fewer calories then you burn is all weight loss factors to, unless you want to count dehydrating oneself or limb loss as weight loss for arguendo.
Insulin sensitivity is largely the product of weight loss, not the cause.3
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