Timing matters. More calories in morning?

2

Replies

  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
    1) from the full article, it's not clear that eating less than the assigned calories was recorded as noncompliance
    2) as I read it, a participant could report eating more than 10% above the assigned calories two days a week on average (with no upper limit to how much above the assigned calories were consumed) and be included in the results
    3) calorie intake was self-reported (participants were given a list of food choices, but complying with those food choices and measuring amounts was up to the participants)
    4) as I read it (although it's possible details on food choices were omitted), the big breakfast group was asked to eat tuna sandwiches and a salad for breakfast, along with some milk chocolate -- I'm thinking some people might not have been wolfing that down at 6 a.m.


    I realize isolating 90+ people in a lab for 12 weeks is costly and a barrier to getting volunteers, but I would think in this day and age of meal delivery services, actually giving them the food and collecting the leftovers wouldn't be such a high hurdle, and would address at least some of the self-reporting issues.

    I couldn't find the full text but figured something like this almost had to be the case, as the abstract was claiming equal calories, different results.
  • SuzySunshine99
    SuzySunshine99 Posts: 2,876 Member
    My biggest meal, by far, is in the evening.

    A typical day consists of only about 250 calories for breakfast, 250 calories for lunch, and 1200 calories for dinner, wine, dessert.

    I had no issues losing weight this way and it works for me and my life.
  • unstableunicorn
    unstableunicorn Posts: 216 Member
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    That is possible.

    However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.

    Respectfully, daily routine is irrelevant. My post was referring specifically to the inevitable physical activity we perform the second we get out of bed. Someone who walks briskly between tasks is going to burn more calories throughout the day than someone who shuffles along an identical routine.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 7,984 Member
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    That is possible.

    However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.

    Respectfully, daily routine is irrelevant. My post was referring specifically to the inevitable physical activity we perform the second we get out of bed. Someone who walks briskly between tasks is going to burn more calories throughout the day than someone who shuffles along an identical routine.

    Not convinced that big breakfasts will make any difference really to how much energy we expend doing the same things as we would be doing without the big breakfast .

  • pierinifitness
    pierinifitness Posts: 2,231 Member
  • corinasue1143
    corinasue1143 Posts: 7,469 Member
    merekins wrote: »
    I don’t like eating in morning and am close to my goal so not something I will be trying. But if that was an easy jumpstart for people to start with, that would be amazing. Heard about it on an NPR podcast.
    https://www.npr.org/2016/05/31/479754700/food-for-thought-the-subtle-forces-that-affect-your-appetite
    I eat most of my calories at dinner. I typically wake up feeling satisfied and don't eat breakfast. I've lost about 70 pounds.
    I eat the most calories at lunch most days. I wonder what they say about that?
    denjan333 wrote: »
    You lose weight with a caloric deficit. When you eat the calories makes no difference, as long as you can stick to the deficit.
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    Please explain to me how anyone can disagree with each one of the above. For instance, NorthCascades, do they disagree that you eat most of calories at dinner? Did they check your diary? Or does someone who lives and works with you have an account here and know better? Or do they disagree with how much you’ve lost? Did they check your scales?
  • LIFOtheparty
    LIFOtheparty Posts: 24 Member
    merekins wrote: »
    I don’t like eating in morning and am close to my goal so not something I will be trying. But if that was an easy jumpstart for people to start with, that would be amazing. Heard about it on an NPR podcast.
    https://www.npr.org/2016/05/31/479754700/food-for-thought-the-subtle-forces-that-affect-your-appetite
    I eat most of my calories at dinner. I typically wake up feeling satisfied and don't eat breakfast. I've lost about 70 pounds.
    I eat the most calories at lunch most days. I wonder what they say about that?
    denjan333 wrote: »
    You lose weight with a caloric deficit. When you eat the calories makes no difference, as long as you can stick to the deficit.
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    Please explain to me how anyone can disagree with each one of the above. For instance, NorthCascades, do they disagree that you eat most of calories at dinner? Did they check your diary? Or does someone who lives and works with you have an account here and know better? Or do they disagree with how much you’ve lost? Did they check your scales?

    I was wondering this too lol. Apparently someone doesn't know what "disagree" means.
  • ChackoSupreme
    ChackoSupreme Posts: 4 Member
    Don't get lost in one off studies. If you're going to utilize studies to determine your diet you should utilize ones that have had repeated results.

    A lot of "diet" science is finally being called out for the bunk it is.

    -WHEN- you eat calories should entirely depend on what feels good to you. The important part for weight loss is that you are burning more calories than you consume.

    I would suggest using black coffee and your fasting state in the morning to push you further into the day without eating. The further you can push out not eating, the less insulin your body will produce (which inevitably means fat storage if you're consuming a large number of calories earlier).

    You should also always break your fast by starting with leafy greens or water vegetables as they cause the lowest insulin response. Then move on to proteins, then to carbs, then to sugar/fruit.

    Black coffee and drinking a lot of water will help when you're feeling hungry but it isn't quite time to eat yet.

    If this doesn't feel good (and it takes a while to adjust) or if you have blood-sugar issues, you should just try to stick to eating veggies for breakfast first for a month or two, including calorie restricting, and see where you get in like 60 days.

    Remember that the chief factors that affect weight loss are insulin sensitivity, and that you are consuming fewer calories than you are burning.
  • SarahAnne3958
    SarahAnne3958 Posts: 78 Member
    Don't get lost in one off studies. If you're going to utilize studies to determine your diet you should utilize ones that have had repeated results.

    A lot of "diet" science is finally being called out for the bunk it is.

    -WHEN- you eat calories should entirely depend on what feels good to you. The important part for weight loss is that you are burning more calories than you consume.

    I would suggest using black coffee and your fasting state in the morning to push you further into the day without eating. The further you can push out not eating, the less insulin your body will produce (which inevitably means fat storage if you're consuming a large number of calories earlier).

    You should also always break your fast by starting with leafy greens or water vegetables as they cause the lowest insulin response. Then move on to proteins, then to carbs, then to sugar/fruit.

    Black coffee and drinking a lot of water will help when you're feeling hungry but it isn't quite time to eat yet.

    If this doesn't feel good (and it takes a while to adjust) or if you have blood-sugar issues, you should just try to stick to eating veggies for breakfast first for a month or two, including calorie restricting, and see where you get in like 60 days.

    Remember that the chief factors that affect weight loss are insulin sensitivity, and that you are consuming fewer calories than you are burning.

    I don't drink black coffee and I don't really eat carbs anymore so no water veggies here, I'll just go sit in the corner quietly with my 120lb self :p
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    edited September 2019
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    That is possible.

    However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.

    I don't completely agree. I think a sudden shift in calories to the morning could increase a person's NEAT but I think over time it would likely even back out and both groups would be losing around the same amount if they all remained compliant.

    I think NEAT can happen in very subtle hard to track ways. Tapping your foot to a song might not even be something you realize you are doing.

    Some people might shift their calories back and forth but I think once you know it is increasing your NEAT you may lose the less conscious aspects of it. I would rather stick to a firm routine so that my hunger cues are lined up with normal schedule and just work on increasing my NEAT in other ways. Easier is always better IMO.
  • lgfrie
    lgfrie Posts: 1,450 Member
    I imagine this could work well for some people. As for me, every neuron in my brain is unalteringly hardwired to expect and get a big, satisfying dinner between 6 and 7 pm. I will (and do) sacrifice other meals and snacks so that when I sit down to dinner, it's a feast. It's all about finding what works.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 7,984 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    That is possible.

    However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.

    I don't completely agree. I think a sudden shift in calories to the morning could increase a person's NEAT but I think over time it would likely even back out and both groups would be losing around the same amount if they all remained compliant.

    I think NEAT can happen in very subtle hard to track ways. Tapping your foot to a song might not even be something you realize you are doing.

    Some people might shift their calories back and forth but I think once you know it is increasing your NEAT you may lose the less conscious aspects of it. I would rather stick to a firm routine so that my hunger cues are lined up with normal schedule and just work on increasing my NEAT in other ways. Easier is always better IMO.

    Yes i get that subtle changes in NEAT could occur, I think I acknowledged that earlier.

    However i still think any changes to what we would be doing regardless of eating or not eating the big breakfast (like going to work and doing same job that day) are too small to be meaningful

  • merekins
    merekins Posts: 227 Member
    lgfrie wrote: »
    I imagine this could work well for some people. As for me, every neuron in my brain is unalteringly hardwired to expect and get a big, satisfying dinner between 6 and 7 pm. I will (and do) sacrifice other meals and snacks so that when I sit down to dinner, it's a feast. It's all about finding what works.
    Same!!! Low calorie dinner sounds mentally awful to me.

  • Danp
    Danp Posts: 1,561 Member
    I’ve just looked up that old adage ‘Breakfast like a King, Lunch like a Prince, Dine like a Pauper’

    The version I heard was "Keep your breakfast for yourself, share you lunch with your friend and give you dinner to your enemy".

    Given that I tend to have a cup of coffee in the morning then nothing else until dinner it goes without saying that I didn't pay any attention to this philosophy.
  • IsETHome
    IsETHome Posts: 386 Member
    Unfortunately when I eat more in the am, I crave all day. 250 cals max for breakfast for me
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    edited September 2019
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    That is possible.

    However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.

    Actually, it's believed that eating breakfast can increase NEAT via increased fidgeting, faster walking, etc..
    An increase in NEAT will do more than most people realize. A more energetic person who gets up from their chair with a bounce, fidgets all day, walks with an extra pep in their step is going to burn a lot more calories than someone who sits still, gets up slowly and mosies everywhere they walk.

    To clarify, eating more in general can cause this. Of course, it follows that an increase in NEAT can be easily overshadowed by a surplus of calories.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    The only impact a higher intake in the morning might have is providing more energy to fuel more vigorous activity like walking faster, lifting heavier loads, etc. Any extra weight loss will depend entirely on how you exert that energy.

    That is possible.

    However many of us have daily routines (like going to work for 8 hours) that are not going to change regardless of what we eat when - so moot point for many of us.

    I don't completely agree. I think a sudden shift in calories to the morning could increase a person's NEAT but I think over time it would likely even back out and both groups would be losing around the same amount if they all remained compliant.

    I think NEAT can happen in very subtle hard to track ways. Tapping your foot to a song might not even be something you realize you are doing.

    Some people might shift their calories back and forth but I think once you know it is increasing your NEAT you may lose the less conscious aspects of it. I would rather stick to a firm routine so that my hunger cues are lined up with normal schedule and just work on increasing my NEAT in other ways. Easier is always better IMO.

    Yes i get that subtle changes in NEAT could occur, I think I acknowledged that earlier.

    However i still think any changes to what we would be doing regardless of eating or not eating the big breakfast (like going to work and doing same job that day) are too small to be meaningful

    The first time my NEAT climbed I only caught it because of my meticulous tracking. I started losing .3 pounds per week more than I had been. I dismissed it as over-logging but it was persistent for 6 weeks. I finally realized that because I had lost weight and I was feeling better I was moving more. It was all tiny things but it added up to an average of 150 calories per day.

    In any event a study like this has to be repeated with stricter protocols and monitoring to be taken as fact. You can't leave gaps like compliance and energy expenditure variances because they are huge variables in all studies like this.