Biking Faster
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Also it really helps with durability. I have giant strong legs but my ftp is complete trash squatting 2.5 times my body weight has like no practical cross over.2
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mojavemtbr wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Anything that will improve your cardiovascular system. Leg strength won't help.
Gear selection can have a profound effect too. Good tires will make you faster than all the squats and leg presses ever will.
Why do you say leg strength wont help ? If leg strength does not help why then do most contemporary cycling coaches recommend adding some weight /strength training to their riders training schedules ???
To make them better sprinters, hill climbers or for short duration bursts of power such as breaking away from the peloton.
Not to improve average speed on a commute.
I would say that all other things being equal: i.e. aerobic capacity, bodyweight, anaerobic threshold, etc...etc. the cyclist with the stronger legs will still be faster overall3 -
mojavemtbr wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Anything that will improve your cardiovascular system. Leg strength won't help.
Gear selection can have a profound effect too. Good tires will make you faster than all the squats and leg presses ever will.
Why do you say leg strength wont help ? If leg strength does not help why then do most contemporary cycling coaches recommend adding some weight /strength training to their riders training schedules ???
Because the force you apply to the pedals is miniscule. Track cyclists do a lot of leg work in the gym because they can't shift gears, they only have one, and choose a high gear for going fast, which means a lot of force is required to get the bike moving at the start of a race. Mountain bikers can benefit from leg strength because they take on grades (steepness) you don't see on roads. But in terms of getting to work faster, the question this thread is about, pushing hard on the pedals 5 times, resting 2 minutes, and doing 4 more sets of that, isn't going to make you faster. If it was, all professional cyclists would be doing it because they couldn't afford not to - and that's not the case.
I'm not saying strength training is bad and you shouldn't do it, I'm saying it isn't the answer for commuting faster on a bike. Cycling is an aerobic sport.1 -
mojavemtbr wrote: »mojavemtbr wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Anything that will improve your cardiovascular system. Leg strength won't help.
Gear selection can have a profound effect too. Good tires will make you faster than all the squats and leg presses ever will.
Why do you say leg strength wont help ? If leg strength does not help why then do most contemporary cycling coaches recommend adding some weight /strength training to their riders training schedules ???
To make them better sprinters, hill climbers or for short duration bursts of power such as breaking away from the peloton.
Not to improve average speed on a commute.
I would say that all other things being equal: i.e. aerobic capacity, bodyweight, anaerobic threshold, etc...etc. the cyclist with the stronger legs will still be faster overall
All other things being equal also means the amount of time you have to spend training. Taking some of that away from building aerobic capacity to lift is counter-productive.1 -
I understand what you are saying. However my personal experience is that Im a much better rider when I incorporate strengh training into my training than when I do not. But then I also mountain bike way more often than I do roadie rides so that may be why. But do find I can push a bigger gear on road rides at the same cadence and at the same exerertion level when I do strength train than periods when I dont.1
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I find some other benefits from lifting that apply to cycling. Renegade rows are kind of an obscure lift, I never see anyone else doing them at the gym, but they do a lot for my core, and also for the back my shoulders which carry some of my weight on the bike.0
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mojavemtbr wrote: »mojavemtbr wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Anything that will improve your cardiovascular system. Leg strength won't help.
Gear selection can have a profound effect too. Good tires will make you faster than all the squats and leg presses ever will.
Why do you say leg strength wont help ? If leg strength does not help why then do most contemporary cycling coaches recommend adding some weight /strength training to their riders training schedules ???
To make them better sprinters, hill climbers or for short duration bursts of power such as breaking away from the peloton.
Not to improve average speed on a commute.
I would say that all other things being equal: i.e. aerobic capacity, bodyweight, anaerobic threshold, etc...etc. the cyclist with the stronger legs will still be faster overall
Seem to be veering away from the thread here - how to boost average speed.
And then you have to define "stronger".
Max power 30 second test perhaps? You know the one where your power starts to fall off a cliff after about 15 seconds of maximal effort. Squats and leg press are going to boost that power nicely.
Or maybe 60 min FTP test would be more relevant - strength endurance perhaps (but far and away a test of cardio endurance). Low rep strength training would a miniscule factor in that.
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Just slap some clip on aero bars on that bad boy boom instant speed. Hip angle be dammed1
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NorthCascades wrote: »
Tires are the #1 best upgrade you can make to any bike. But you can only do it once. Grand Prix 4000 and 5000 are excellent tires.
Agreed - check the rolling resistance and weight of any tire you plan on buying (most manufacturers post that data). I'm a huge fan of Continental tires too, the GP 5000 gives you a great combination of performance and puncture resistance. You could also consider going tubeless but that's a more expensive option.
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I've been riding tubeless for 3 years now. You need a little bit more mechanical aptitude, or you can pay the shop to set them up for you. Need a valve core remover tool, and maybe an air compressor. The tires are more expensive, but there are very good choices available.
I went from flatting once or twice a month to twice in three years. That's worth the expense and hassle for me. Changing a tube in 40F rain isn't fun, you're chilled before it's done, and then getting started again is miserable.
Also you get to run your tires softer which is a plusher ride, and gets you better RR on anything but the most pristine roads, like brand new pavement, or maybe an indoor track. You feel more planted through corners, and have slightly better breaking power because the lower air pressure creates a large contact patch.0 -
Just slap some clip on aero bars on that bad boy boom instant speed. Hip angle be dammed
Time trial bike! Aero wheels! Shoe covers, skin suit, and aero helmet. Probably a small backpack to smooth the turbulent flow behind your head, if you don't go with the space invaders helmet.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I've been riding tubeless for 3 years now. You need a little bit more mechanical aptitude, or you can pay the shop to set them up for you. Need a valve core remover tool, and maybe an air compressor. The tires are more expensive, but there are very good choices available.
I went from flatting once or twice a month to twice in three years. That's worth the expense and hassle for me. Changing a tube in 40F rain isn't fun, you're chilled before it's done, and then getting started again is miserable.
Also you get to run your tires softer which is a plusher ride, and gets you better RR on anything but the most pristine roads, like brand new pavement, or maybe an indoor track. You feel more planted through corners, and have slightly better breaking power because the lower air pressure creates a large contact patch.
What is RR?1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
Aero everything! I wish I could afford a new tri bike but I’d have to sell my body on the street only for bmc to immediately come out with a newer nicer one that shoots lasers and saves kittens.
I run tubeless too the convenience is just insane.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I've been riding tubeless for 3 years now. You need a little bit more mechanical aptitude, or you can pay the shop to set them up for you. Need a valve core remover tool, and maybe an air compressor. The tires are more expensive, but there are very good choices available.
I went from flatting once or twice a month to twice in three years. That's worth the expense and hassle for me. Changing a tube in 40F rain isn't fun, you're chilled before it's done, and then getting started again is miserable.
Also you get to run your tires softer which is a plusher ride, and gets you better RR on anything but the most pristine roads, like brand new pavement, or maybe an indoor track. You feel more planted through corners, and have slightly better breaking power because the lower air pressure creates a large contact patch.
What is RR?
You're going to be sorry you asked, @lorrpb. 😆
RR is short for rolling resistance, and crr is short for coefficient of rolling resistance. Usually if you read a tire review (yeah, people do that) it'll be expressed as crr and lower numbers are better. 0.01 crr = 0.1% gradient (hill steepness) in terms of energy.
If you hang your bike on the wall, the tires are a perfect circle. But when you put it on the ground and weight it, the bottom of the tire flattens out. Then, you start moving, and which part of the tire is on the bottom keeps changing - which means part of the circular tire is always flattening. And that takes energy. Energy that would otherwise be moving you forward. (You get some of that back when the rear of the contact pacth springs back into shape, but only some.)
It sounds incredibly minor, but it's actually a big deal. The best tires "cost" about 12 watts each (front and back) in rolling resistance, it can easily be double that. A recreational cyclist puts out somewhere from 75 to 150 watts, and 25 to 50 of that might go to flexing the tires. It's really really hard to get fit enough to be able to put 25 more watts out, so being able to change your tires and get the same effect is a very big deal.
Aero stuff only has a big impact on your energy when you're going fast, or in a headwind, and almost vanishes in a headwind, but RR is always there. And again, it's like the difference between flat ground and up a moderate hill.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I've been riding tubeless for 3 years now. You need a little bit more mechanical aptitude, or you can pay the shop to set them up for you. Need a valve core remover tool, and maybe an air compressor. The tires are more expensive, but there are very good choices available.
I went from flatting once or twice a month to twice in three years. That's worth the expense and hassle for me. Changing a tube in 40F rain isn't fun, you're chilled before it's done, and then getting started again is miserable.
Also you get to run your tires softer which is a plusher ride, and gets you better RR on anything but the most pristine roads, like brand new pavement, or maybe an indoor track. You feel more planted through corners, and have slightly better breaking power because the lower air pressure creates a large contact patch.
What is RR?
You're going to be sorry you asked, @lorrpb. 😆
RR is short for rolling resistance, and crr is short for coefficient of rolling resistance. Usually if you read a tire review (yeah, people do that) it'll be expressed as crr and lower numbers are better. 0.01 crr = 0.1% gradient (hill steepness) in terms of energy.
If you hang your bike on the wall, the tires are a perfect circle. But when you put it on the ground and weight it, the bottom of the tire flattens out. Then, you start moving, and which part of the tire is on the bottom keeps changing - which means part of the circular tire is always flattening. And that takes energy. Energy that would otherwise be moving you forward. (You get some of that back when the rear of the contact pacth springs back into shape, but only some.)
It sounds incredibly minor, but it's actually a big deal. The best tires "cost" about 12 watts each (front and back) in rolling resistance, it can easily be double that. A recreational cyclist puts out somewhere from 75 to 150 watts, and 25 to 50 of that might go to flexing the tires. It's really really hard to get fit enough to be able to put 25 more watts out, so being able to change your tires and get the same effect is a very big deal.
Aero stuff only has a big impact on your energy when you're going fast, or in a headwind, and almost vanishes in a headwind, but RR is always there. And again, it's like the difference between flat ground and up a moderate hill.
Well at least it’s not something “obvious” I should’ve known 😂0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
I once saw a commuter on a time trial bike while I was carrying a boat back in after rowing practice. It took a lot not to burst out laughing. I used to see a lot of people with the POC Octal Aero helmets while riding a hybrid or riding a bike with panniers. Gotta go for those marginal gains in mildly comfortable, or at the very least very warm, ways (I need helmets with a lot of vents).1 -
Pretty much everything has been covered.
1 - Ride More
2 - Ride a Red bike (because we know red is fastest)
3 - Be as light as possible.
4 - Ride more and adhere to rule #5 (see the rules by the Velominati but don't take it too seriously)
If your commute is urban with stops and starts, 16MPH may be a difficult target to hit.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
I once saw a commuter on a time trial bike while I was carrying a boat back in after rowing practice. It took a lot not to burst out laughing. I used to see a lot of people with the POC Octal Aero helmets while riding a hybrid or riding a bike with panniers. Gotta go for those marginal gains in mildly comfortable, or at the very least very warm, ways (I need helmets with a lot of vents).
I used to see somebody riding around on $3k racing wheels with fenders. I wonder how much wind tunnel testing that scenario got!0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I've been riding tubeless for 3 years now. You need a little bit more mechanical aptitude, or you can pay the shop to set them up for you. Need a valve core remover tool, and maybe an air compressor. The tires are more expensive, but there are very good choices available.
I went from flatting once or twice a month to twice in three years. That's worth the expense and hassle for me. Changing a tube in 40F rain isn't fun, you're chilled before it's done, and then getting started again is miserable.
Also you get to run your tires softer which is a plusher ride, and gets you better RR on anything but the most pristine roads, like brand new pavement, or maybe an indoor track. You feel more planted through corners, and have slightly better breaking power because the lower air pressure creates a large contact patch.
What is RR?
You're going to be sorry you asked, @lorrpb. 😆
RR is short for rolling resistance, and crr is short for coefficient of rolling resistance. Usually if you read a tire review (yeah, people do that) it'll be expressed as crr and lower numbers are better. 0.01 crr = 0.1% gradient (hill steepness) in terms of energy.
If you hang your bike on the wall, the tires are a perfect circle. But when you put it on the ground and weight it, the bottom of the tire flattens out. Then, you start moving, and which part of the tire is on the bottom keeps changing - which means part of the circular tire is always flattening. And that takes energy. Energy that would otherwise be moving you forward. (You get some of that back when the rear of the contact pacth springs back into shape, but only some.)
It sounds incredibly minor, but it's actually a big deal. The best tires "cost" about 12 watts each (front and back) in rolling resistance, it can easily be double that. A recreational cyclist puts out somewhere from 75 to 150 watts, and 25 to 50 of that might go to flexing the tires. It's really really hard to get fit enough to be able to put 25 more watts out, so being able to change your tires and get the same effect is a very big deal.
Aero stuff only has a big impact on your energy when you're going fast, or in a headwind, and almost vanishes in a headwind, but RR is always there. And again, it's like the difference between flat ground and up a moderate hill.
Well at least it’s not something “obvious” I should’ve known 😂
Looks like I was a little wrong on the numbers. Here's a list of road tires:
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews
Corsa Speed G+ costs 7 to 9.3 watts depending how much air you put in it.
Lugano costs 22 to 28 watts, depending on air pressure. Per tire. That could be half the energy you're putting into the bike!1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
I once saw a commuter on a time trial bike while I was carrying a boat back in after rowing practice. It took a lot not to burst out laughing. I used to see a lot of people with the POC Octal Aero helmets while riding a hybrid or riding a bike with panniers. Gotta go for those marginal gains in mildly comfortable, or at the very least very warm, ways (I need helmets with a lot of vents).
I used to see somebody riding around on $3k racing wheels with fenders. I wonder how much wind tunnel testing that scenario got!
See this at these combinations at the veloway all the time and it blows my mind.1
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