Insulin and high GI carbs

During my cut I followed a slow carb (Tim Ferris) diet to avoid insulin spikes. I'm wondering if that is not helpful for bulking - I looked up insulin and bulking and got a load of stuff about how bodybuilders abuse insulin which kind of makes me think that avoiding insulin spikes (to try and minimise fat gain) is unhelpful for making gains.

Obviously I'm not looking to abuse anything but I'm wondering if cutting out insulin spiking foods like sugar/dairy/fruit etc is hampering progress? I know in the 4H body he talks about 'Occam's Protocol' where some higher GI carbs are allowed for bulking but I'm keen to make this bulk as effective as possible but not a dirty bulk...

High GI carbs and normal (not restrictive) insulin spikes OK?

Replies

  • PWHF
    PWHF Posts: 221 Member
    I'm not looking to spike insulin or do anything out of the ordinary. I've been cutting all year on a 'slow carb' (4 Hour Body - Tim Ferris) diet. I'm still a bit in that mindset and sticking to lower GI carbs and avoiding sugar/fruit/dairy. I'm wondering if this will hamper a bulk.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,373 MFP Moderator
    PWHF wrote: »
    I'm not looking to spike insulin or do anything out of the ordinary. I've been cutting all year on a 'slow carb' (4 Hour Body - Tim Ferris) diet. I'm still a bit in that mindset and sticking to lower GI carbs and avoiding sugar/fruit/dairy. I'm wondering if this will hamper a bulk.

    There is pretty good evidence on the benefits of dairy and muscle. And fruit can be highly beneficial for nutrients. Will is hamper results? Probably not.
  • MikePTY
    MikePTY Posts: 3,816 Member
    Unless you have a medical condition such as diabetes that requires you to control your insulin levels, there is no need need to control it for weight loss or muscle growth.
  • PWHF
    PWHF Posts: 221 Member
    Guys....

    Very simple question - I'll ask it again:

    Does sticking to slower release/low GI carbs and avoiding insulin spikes (as per Tim Ferris' 4 hour body and 'Occam's protocol') negatively affect gains while bulking?

    Yes or no?

    @sijomial -yes I am following Kinobody GGP program which involves IF. It's working very well
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    Yes, no, or an irrelevance would be a better question assuming you have a healthy pancreas.
    Avoiding "spikes" (why spikes not rise which is the perfectly normal and healthy response to feeding?) my answer would be a total irrelevance.

    If the question is the bigger one around proper nutrition around your workout your routine would be a definite no vote to imposing fasting on yourself. If you are looking for the final few percentage points then eating properly before and after a workout is worth considering and fasting doesn't do that. There's nothing anabolic about not eating.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,373 MFP Moderator
    OP, you are much better off evaluating your lifting program. And if you want to maximize the 1%, do 30g of high GI carbs 30min before a workout.
  • PWHF
    PWHF Posts: 221 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    Yes, no, or an irrelevance would be a better question assuming you have a healthy pancreas.
    Avoiding "spikes" (why spikes not rise which is the perfectly normal and healthy response to feeding?) my answer would be a total irrelevance.

    If the question is the bigger one around proper nutrition around your workout your routine would be a definite no vote to imposing fasting on yourself. If you are looking for the final few percentage points then eating properly before and after a workout is worth considering and fasting doesn't do that. There's nothing anabolic about not eating.

    Thanks for the response. The fasting thing is something I'm going to continue to do and not debate it on here any more, it's a way of life for me and I like the way it makes me feel. It's not the topic of this thread or my question.

    I think the upshot is that I'm not going to restrict white starchy carbs, fruit and dairy like I was on the cut. I think I'm still switching from cut to bulk in my mind and after 9 months of cutting the idea of putting on fat is something I'm still looking to accept.

    I appreciate the knowledge and help of everyone on here
  • jdog022
    jdog022 Posts: 694 Member
    PWHF wrote: »
    Guys....

    Very simple question - I'll ask it again:

    Does sticking to slower release/low GI carbs and avoiding insulin spikes (as per Tim Ferris' 4 hour body and 'Occam's protocol') negatively affect gains while bulking?

    Yes or no?

    @sijomial -yes I am following Kinobody GGP program which involves IF. It's working very well

    If you were trying to get that .0000000001 percent advantage to win mr Olympia vs second place well maybe . But no
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    I personally love my candy pre-and intra workout. I find it helps with my workout performance (both cutting and bulking). Does it directly help build muscle? I don't know about that... but if I feel better and perform better that is my aim then indirectly I would say it does. I eat everything cutting and bulking... bread, pasta, dairy, fruit, candy, chocolate, cake etc... and I very successfully build and lean out according to my goals many times over.

    Try not to major in the minors, worrying about what to eat what not to eat. The main factors for limiting fat gain during a bulk will be slower rate of gain, proper workout programming, adequate protein and starting off fairly lean.

    If you are happy with your progress so far, you are following a proper progressive program, you are nailing your workouts... then I wouldn't worry about what carbs you eat provided you are getting adequate nutrition and protein. Keep in mind those high energy carbs could definitely help you with your workouts and allow you to get more food in while you are bulking. But maybe they might make you feel sluggish. Only one way to find out what works best for you.
  • watts6151
    watts6151 Posts: 887 Member
    Everything you really need to know for
    Eating and workout timing

    https://youtu.be/rJSQyTK8ZVE