When is too much salt...too much
JewelLiz
Posts: 15 Member
I noticed that my "recommended" daily allowances have what I consider a large amount of salt everyday (2,300) Im not a "salt" person. And it is one area I am never over nor even close to get the so called recommended amounts. Is it a bad thing? But I am always over on fats and of course sugar.
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Replies
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Most people find that it is hard to hit this target even without adding any salt since many foods, especially prepared, have a lot of sodium built in.
I caution that the database has many erroneous entries, and that if you're really concerned about some of the macros and micros you really need to double-check that all the entries you use are accurate.
Sodium is recommended maximum intake because many people exceed these levels.
As far as I'm aware there's no official minimum sodium level. However I will note that extremely low sodium levels do result in people needing to visit the emergency room and adding back some of it into their diet.
General sodium recommendations I have seen for cardiac patients who have been advised to control their sodium intake include variously things such as no more than 2300, or even 2,000 mg, lower is better, and aim for 1500mg
Based on the above, as a non cardiac patient, with no known sensitivity to sodium, no high blood pressure and also no significant level of exercise and general sweating or living in a climate that promotes sweating and loss of sodium, well, I would think I would survive in the 1500+ mark.
If I was consistently lower than that and symptom-free I might bring it up with my doctor.
If I was consistently lower than that and occasionally fainting I might bring it up with my doctor much sooner!!!!
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Nope, you don’t have to meet that, or any of the macros or nutrients.
The amount of salt most adults should stay below, barring no medical conditions, is 1500 mg/day. The American Heart Association is making moves to switch the current limit from 2300 to 1500.
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Nope, you don’t have to meet that, or any of the macros or nutrients.
The amount of salt most adults should stay below, barring no medical conditions, is 1500 mg/day. The American Heart Association is making moves to switch the current limit from 2300 to 1500.
Really surprised at the cut. After my seizure in August the first thing my doctor asked if I was getting enough sodium with the dietary changes and she seemed iffy about me reducing to 2,300. Thank you for sharing this! I will have to look further into it.3 -
I've got 20 years under my belt of doctor guidance on sodium due to borderline high BP and a family history of heart disease. Here's the scoop as it's been told to me over the decades by one doctor after another, including a cardiologist in the middle there somewhere.
The human body only needs 500 mg of sodium per day. You shouldn't eat less than that. But that isn't really an issue, because it's virtually impossible to eat less than 500 mg. That's approximately the sodium content of one average sized bagel with nothing on it.
Nobody "should" be eating more than 2,300 mg / day. MFP's default reflects the conventional wisdom in medicine on that one.
As everyone who logs food on MFP has discovered, it's very easy to exceed 2,300, especially if that includes processed or restaurant food. I just went to PF Changs the other day and was looking over their nutrition stuff. A bowl of hot and sour soup has 3,800 mg. Mongolian Beef has 2,300. For that matter, the soy sauce that people use as a condiment at places like Changs has 700 mg PER TEASPOON, and hot sauces are generally 200-500 mg per teaspoon. An innocent looking turkey and swiss sandwich I made out of Boar's Head cold cuts, one of them being "reduced sodium turkey", added up to 1100 mg. So, that 2300 number is not a walk in the park. This is why Americans average 3,300 mg per day, which is way, way over the recommended amount for good health.
The American Heart Association says 1,500 should be the limit for most people, certainly for anyone over 40 or with any history (theirs or their family's) of heart disease, stroke, etc. 1,500 can be extremely hard to achieve unless one is (a) cooking one's own food, and (b) really paying attention to the sodium.
I aim for 1500-2000 and usually manage to be in that range, but can't pull it off when eating at a restaurant. I try to make > 2000 days very rare.
Sodium is one of those things that's easy to ignore, especially for people trying to drill down on calories and not wanting to get overwhelmed with chasing different rabbits down different holes. So it's understandable that a lot of people don't pay much attention to sodium, but the problems it causes over time aren't problems at all until suddenly they are gigantic problems and then your life is different forever. It's hugely better to adopt a low-sodium mindset and behaviors early in the game of life and stick to it.10 -
I've got 20 years under my belt of doctor guidance on sodium due to borderline high BP and a family history of heart disease. Here's the scoop as it's been told to me over the decades by one doctor after another, including a cardiologist in the middle there somewhere.
The human body only needs 500 mg of sodium per day. You shouldn't eat less than that. But that isn't really an issue, because it's virtually impossible to eat less than 500 mg. That's approximately the sodium content of one average sized bagel with nothing on it.
Nobody "should" be eating more than 2,300 mg / day. MFP's default reflects the conventional wisdom in medicine on that one.
As everyone who logs food on MFP has discovered, it's very easy to exceed 2,300, especially if that includes processed or restaurant food. I just went to PF Changs the other day and was looking over their nutrition stuff. A bowl of hot and sour soup has 3,800 mg. Mongolian Beef has 2,300. For that matter, the soy sauce that people use as a condiment at places like Changs has 700 mg PER TEASPOON, and hot sauces are generally 200-500 mg per teaspoon. An innocent looking turkey and swiss sandwich I made out of Boar's Head cold cuts, one of them being "reduced sodium turkey", added up to 1100 mg. So, that 2300 number is not a walk in the park. This is why Americans average 3,300 mg per day, which is way, way over the recommended amount for good health.
The American Heart Association says 1,500 should be the limit for most people, certainly for anyone over 40 or with any history (theirs or their family's) of heart disease, stroke, etc. 1,500 can be extremely hard to achieve unless one is (a) cooking one's own food, and (b) really paying attention to the sodium.
I aim for 1500-2000 and usually manage to be in that range, but can't pull it off when eating at a restaurant. I try to make > 2000 days very rare.
Sodium is one of those things that's easy to ignore, especially for people trying to drill down on calories and not wanting to get overwhelmed with chasing different rabbits down different holes. So it's understandable that a lot of people don't pay much attention to sodium, but the problems it causes over time aren't problems at all until suddenly they are gigantic problems and then your life is different forever. It's hugely better to adopt a low-sodium mindset and behaviors early in the game of life and stick to it.
Disagree on the "nobody should be eating more than 2,300 mg/day. In the past I have trained for and participated in numerous multi hour endurance events. You sweat buckets, particularly in the summer when it's 100F+ out there and even hotter on the black top. You lose a ton of salt doing those and that needs to be replenished. When I first started training for these things I was trying to keep my sodium low because I'm hypertensive but I kept cramping up all of the time. I spoke to my Dr. who works at a heart hospital and is also a triathlete and he told me to up my sodium despite being hypertensive because I was doing so much endurance work.21 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I've got 20 years under my belt of doctor guidance on sodium due to borderline high BP and a family history of heart disease. Here's the scoop as it's been told to me over the decades by one doctor after another, including a cardiologist in the middle there somewhere.
The human body only needs 500 mg of sodium per day. You shouldn't eat less than that. But that isn't really an issue, because it's virtually impossible to eat less than 500 mg. That's approximately the sodium content of one average sized bagel with nothing on it.
Nobody "should" be eating more than 2,300 mg / day. MFP's default reflects the conventional wisdom in medicine on that one.
As everyone who logs food on MFP has discovered, it's very easy to exceed 2,300, especially if that includes processed or restaurant food. I just went to PF Changs the other day and was looking over their nutrition stuff. A bowl of hot and sour soup has 3,800 mg. Mongolian Beef has 2,300. For that matter, the soy sauce that people use as a condiment at places like Changs has 700 mg PER TEASPOON, and hot sauces are generally 200-500 mg per teaspoon. An innocent looking turkey and swiss sandwich I made out of Boar's Head cold cuts, one of them being "reduced sodium turkey", added up to 1100 mg. So, that 2300 number is not a walk in the park. This is why Americans average 3,300 mg per day, which is way, way over the recommended amount for good health.
The American Heart Association says 1,500 should be the limit for most people, certainly for anyone over 40 or with any history (theirs or their family's) of heart disease, stroke, etc. 1,500 can be extremely hard to achieve unless one is (a) cooking one's own food, and (b) really paying attention to the sodium.
I aim for 1500-2000 and usually manage to be in that range, but can't pull it off when eating at a restaurant. I try to make > 2000 days very rare.
Sodium is one of those things that's easy to ignore, especially for people trying to drill down on calories and not wanting to get overwhelmed with chasing different rabbits down different holes. So it's understandable that a lot of people don't pay much attention to sodium, but the problems it causes over time aren't problems at all until suddenly they are gigantic problems and then your life is different forever. It's hugely better to adopt a low-sodium mindset and behaviors early in the game of life and stick to it.
Disagree on the "nobody should be eating more than 2,300 mg/day. In the past I have trained for and participated in numerous multi hour endurance events. You sweat buckets, particularly in the summer when it's 100F+ out there and even hotter on the black top. You lose a ton of salt doing those and that needs to be replenished. When I first started training for these things I was trying to keep my sodium low because I'm hypertensive but I kept cramping up all of the time. I spoke to my Dr. who works at a heart hospital and is also a triathlete and he told me to up my sodium despite being hypertensive because I was doing so much endurance work.
Yep. I'm definitely not qualified to weigh in on what athletes need for their training. I'm just passing along the guidance that's been given to me by doctors for my lifestyle, which is fairly sedentary with some daily cardio and resistance training. Which may describe a lot of people, but not all people. Anyone doing hard core sports or other things that could impact sodium and water balance should discuss with a doctor.8 -
Thanks everyone! Good advice from everyone!
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I've got 20 years under my belt of doctor guidance on sodium due to borderline high BP and a family history of heart disease. Here's the scoop as it's been told to me over the decades by one doctor after another, including a cardiologist in the middle there somewhere.
The human body only needs 500 mg of sodium per day. You shouldn't eat less than that. But that isn't really an issue, because it's virtually impossible to eat less than 500 mg. That's approximately the sodium content of one average sized bagel with nothing on it.
Nobody "should" be eating more than 2,300 mg / day. MFP's default reflects the conventional wisdom in medicine on that one.
As everyone who logs food on MFP has discovered, it's very easy to exceed 2,300, especially if that includes processed or restaurant food. I just went to PF Changs the other day and was looking over their nutrition stuff. A bowl of hot and sour soup has 3,800 mg. Mongolian Beef has 2,300. For that matter, the soy sauce that people use as a condiment at places like Changs has 700 mg PER TEASPOON, and hot sauces are generally 200-500 mg per teaspoon. An innocent looking turkey and swiss sandwich I made out of Boar's Head cold cuts, one of them being "reduced sodium turkey", added up to 1100 mg. So, that 2300 number is not a walk in the park. This is why Americans average 3,300 mg per day, which is way, way over the recommended amount for good health.
The American Heart Association says 1,500 should be the limit for most people, certainly for anyone over 40 or with any history (theirs or their family's) of heart disease, stroke, etc. 1,500 can be extremely hard to achieve unless one is (a) cooking one's own food, and (b) really paying attention to the sodium.
I aim for 1500-2000 and usually manage to be in that range, but can't pull it off when eating at a restaurant. I try to make > 2000 days very rare.
Sodium is one of those things that's easy to ignore, especially for people trying to drill down on calories and not wanting to get overwhelmed with chasing different rabbits down different holes. So it's understandable that a lot of people don't pay much attention to sodium, but the problems it causes over time aren't problems at all until suddenly they are gigantic problems and then your life is different forever. It's hugely better to adopt a low-sodium mindset and behaviors early in the game of life and stick to it.
Disagree on the "nobody should be eating more than 2,300 mg/day. In the past I have trained for and participated in numerous multi hour endurance events. You sweat buckets, particularly in the summer when it's 100F+ out there and even hotter on the black top. You lose a ton of salt doing those and that needs to be replenished. When I first started training for these things I was trying to keep my sodium low because I'm hypertensive but I kept cramping up all of the time. I spoke to my Dr. who works at a heart hospital and is also a triathlete and he told me to up my sodium despite being hypertensive because I was doing so much endurance work.
I was shocked to see my daughter at mile 22 of the first marathon she ran. There were white patches on her skin. I asked her what it was after the race and she told me it was salt from sweat. She often has a bag of chips after a run.
I guess many must see this message from MFP when they log a high salt food, about your goal is to not exceed 2300 mg, I know I do, mostly from certain cold cuts.2 -
James Kreiger did an awesome research review on this study (which, in case you were wondering, included 274,683 test subjects...that's a LOT of people):
Compared with usual sodium intake, low- and excessive-sodium diets are associated with increased mortality: a meta-analysis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24651634
excerpt below:
The researchers found that the risk of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease events were decreased when usual sodium intake was compared to low sodium intake; the usual sodium intake decreased risk by 9-10% compared to low sodium intake. The risk of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease events were also decreased when usual sodium intake was compared to high sodium intake; risk was 12-16% higher with high sodium intake...
...The good news of this paper is that it gives a range of healthy sodium intakes that are much more realistically obtainable (2,645 mg to 4,945 mg). Thus, only when sodium intake exceeds approximately 5,000 mg per day on a daily basis does there appear to be an adverse effect on health. Likewise, when sodium intake drops too low (less than 2,645) it may also have an adverse effect on health. This data questions the general dietary recommendations that sodium be reduced below 2,300 mg in healthy people. It also questions the advice that sodium intake be reduced to 1,500 mg in high risk groups, as this meta-analysis observed similar outcomes whether or not high-risk groups were included in the analysis...
...So why has their been so much hubbub about reducing sodium intake? The basis for sodium reduction has been based primarily on the assumed blood pressure effect from selected studies. However, the blood pressure effect is proportional to the baseline blood pressure (i.e., people with higher blood pressures will get a greater drop in blood pressure from a reduction in sodium intake compared to someone with a lower blood pressure). This means that the impact of salt intake on blood pressure has been overestimated. Also, some data has shown that other variables that affect cardiovascular health (such as hormones and lipids) may get worse when people drastically reduce sodium, which would negate any small benefit from a reduction in blood pressure. Finally, computer model simulations that project the effects of dietary salt reduction on future cardiovascular disease may be flawed because they assume a linear relationship between sodium reduction and blood pressure (which is not the case). Also, blood pressure reduction cannot automatically translate to a decrease in mortality, which has been demonstrated by beta-blockers, which decrease blood pressure but not mortality. Third, computer models ignore potential harms.
Overall, these findings lend to support to people who have questioned the scientific basis for sodium reduction. While anecdotes cannot be construed as evidence, my intake of sodium generally ranges from 3,500 to 5,000 mg per day and have enjoyed very good health and good blood pressure; in fact, I find it nearly impossible to keep my sodium intake below 3,000 mg. Thus, not only does sodium reduction make little sense given the results of this paper, it is not very practical.
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To 8 people: When you find yourself "disagreeing" with the official guidelines for sodium supported by MyFitnessPal and established by the American Heart Association, it might be time to rethink things. There's believing what you read on the web, and then there's going off the reservation.2
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To 8 people: When you find yourself "disagreeing" with the official guidelines for sodium supported by MyFitnessPal and established by the American Heart Association, it might be time to rethink things. There's believing what you read on the web, and then there's going off the reservation.
In all fairness, the official guidelines also discuss having lower amounts of protein, thecwolfman13 wrote: »I've got 20 years under my belt of doctor guidance on sodium due to borderline high BP and a family history of heart disease. Here's the scoop as it's been told to me over the decades by one doctor after another, including a cardiologist in the middle there somewhere.
The human body only needs 500 mg of sodium per day. You shouldn't eat less than that. But that isn't really an issue, because it's virtually impossible to eat less than 500 mg. That's approximately the sodium content of one average sized bagel with nothing on it.
Nobody "should" be eating more than 2,300 mg / day. MFP's default reflects the conventional wisdom in medicine on that one.
As everyone who logs food on MFP has discovered, it's very easy to exceed 2,300, especially if that includes processed or restaurant food. I just went to PF Changs the other day and was looking over their nutrition stuff. A bowl of hot and sour soup has 3,800 mg. Mongolian Beef has 2,300. For that matter, the soy sauce that people use as a condiment at places like Changs has 700 mg PER TEASPOON, and hot sauces are generally 200-500 mg per teaspoon. An innocent looking turkey and swiss sandwich I made out of Boar's Head cold cuts, one of them being "reduced sodium turkey", added up to 1100 mg. So, that 2300 number is not a walk in the park. This is why Americans average 3,300 mg per day, which is way, way over the recommended amount for good health.
The American Heart Association says 1,500 should be the limit for most people, certainly for anyone over 40 or with any history (theirs or their family's) of heart disease, stroke, etc. 1,500 can be extremely hard to achieve unless one is (a) cooking one's own food, and (b) really paying attention to the sodium.
I aim for 1500-2000 and usually manage to be in that range, but can't pull it off when eating at a restaurant. I try to make > 2000 days very rare.
Sodium is one of those things that's easy to ignore, especially for people trying to drill down on calories and not wanting to get overwhelmed with chasing different rabbits down different holes. So it's understandable that a lot of people don't pay much attention to sodium, but the problems it causes over time aren't problems at all until suddenly they are gigantic problems and then your life is different forever. It's hugely better to adopt a low-sodium mindset and behaviors early in the game of life and stick to it.
Disagree on the "nobody should be eating more than 2,300 mg/day. In the past I have trained for and participated in numerous multi hour endurance events. You sweat buckets, particularly in the summer when it's 100F+ out there and even hotter on the black top. You lose a ton of salt doing those and that needs to be replenished. When I first started training for these things I was trying to keep my sodium low because I'm hypertensive but I kept cramping up all of the time. I spoke to my Dr. who works at a heart hospital and is also a triathlete and he told me to up my sodium despite being hypertensive because I was doing so much endurance work.
It should also be noted, diets lower in carbohydrates require higher levels of sodium due to the reductions in insulin which help maintain levels of electrolytes. I aim for no less than 3500-5000 mg or even higher.
And lets face it, often the dietary guidelines aren't always backed by strong science. Just look at the issues with protein.5 -
To 8 people: When you find yourself "disagreeing" with the official guidelines for sodium supported by MyFitnessPal and established by the American Heart Association, it might be time to rethink things. There's believing what you read on the web, and then there's going off the reservation.
It's not believing random things on the web...there are actual peer reviewed studies to look at that indicate that some of these guidelines may be off or at minimum need to be looked at more closely. Established guidelines based on old science or based on very little scientific backing are usually slow to change and keep up...because these institutions that put these guidelines in place are often huge bureaucratic organizations.8 -
missysippy930 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've got 20 years under my belt of doctor guidance on sodium due to borderline high BP and a family history of heart disease. Here's the scoop as it's been told to me over the decades by one doctor after another, including a cardiologist in the middle there somewhere.
The human body only needs 500 mg of sodium per day. You shouldn't eat less than that. But that isn't really an issue, because it's virtually impossible to eat less than 500 mg. That's approximately the sodium content of one average sized bagel with nothing on it.
Nobody "should" be eating more than 2,300 mg / day. MFP's default reflects the conventional wisdom in medicine on that one.
As everyone who logs food on MFP has discovered, it's very easy to exceed 2,300, especially if that includes processed or restaurant food. I just went to PF Changs the other day and was looking over their nutrition stuff. A bowl of hot and sour soup has 3,800 mg. Mongolian Beef has 2,300. For that matter, the soy sauce that people use as a condiment at places like Changs has 700 mg PER TEASPOON, and hot sauces are generally 200-500 mg per teaspoon. An innocent looking turkey and swiss sandwich I made out of Boar's Head cold cuts, one of them being "reduced sodium turkey", added up to 1100 mg. So, that 2300 number is not a walk in the park. This is why Americans average 3,300 mg per day, which is way, way over the recommended amount for good health.
The American Heart Association says 1,500 should be the limit for most people, certainly for anyone over 40 or with any history (theirs or their family's) of heart disease, stroke, etc. 1,500 can be extremely hard to achieve unless one is (a) cooking one's own food, and (b) really paying attention to the sodium.
I aim for 1500-2000 and usually manage to be in that range, but can't pull it off when eating at a restaurant. I try to make > 2000 days very rare.
Sodium is one of those things that's easy to ignore, especially for people trying to drill down on calories and not wanting to get overwhelmed with chasing different rabbits down different holes. So it's understandable that a lot of people don't pay much attention to sodium, but the problems it causes over time aren't problems at all until suddenly they are gigantic problems and then your life is different forever. It's hugely better to adopt a low-sodium mindset and behaviors early in the game of life and stick to it.
Disagree on the "nobody should be eating more than 2,300 mg/day. In the past I have trained for and participated in numerous multi hour endurance events. You sweat buckets, particularly in the summer when it's 100F+ out there and even hotter on the black top. You lose a ton of salt doing those and that needs to be replenished. When I first started training for these things I was trying to keep my sodium low because I'm hypertensive but I kept cramping up all of the time. I spoke to my Dr. who works at a heart hospital and is also a triathlete and he told me to up my sodium despite being hypertensive because I was doing so much endurance work.
I was shocked to see my daughter at mile 22 of the first marathon she ran. There were white patches on her skin. I asked her what it was after the race and she told me it was salt from sweat. She often has a bag of chips after a run.
I guess many must see this message from MFP when they log a high salt food, about your goal is to not exceed 2300 mg, I know I do, mostly from certain cold cuts.
Yeah, my cycling kit is often covered in white splotches from the salt from sweating. When I was doing a lot of long distance endurance stuff, I would drink pickle juice. There were also usually pickles and peanut butter sandwiches at the rest stations.1 -
To 8 people: When you find yourself "disagreeing" with the official guidelines for sodium supported by MyFitnessPal and established by the American Heart Association, it might be time to rethink things. There's believing what you read on the web, and then there's going off the reservation.
MFP's "official guidelines" also "support" having zero MUFA and PUFA, which would be a seriously bad thing since it would mean zero EFAs.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »To 8 people: When you find yourself "disagreeing" with the official guidelines for sodium supported by MyFitnessPal and established by the American Heart Association, it might be time to rethink things. There's believing what you read on the web, and then there's going off the reservation.
MFP's "official guidelines" also "support" having zero MUFA and PUFA, which would be a seriously bad thing since it would mean zero EFAs.
Yeah, OK, but I was referring to a well-established standard for sodium intake from the American Heart Association, a standard which is very strongly supported by doctors, including and especially cardiologists, as literally anyone who's ever discussed sodium, BP, and heart health with a doctor knows.
The AHA says 1,500 mg of sodium should be the maximum amount that most adults consume per day, excluding those with unusual health conditions. This is not some old-school thinking or out of date mantra; in fact, the 1,500 mg is based on the latest and greatest research, from the last 10 years. The old # used to be 2,500 and is what MFP's metric is based on.
There's a time and place for the rebellious, iconoclastic "We know better than the know-it-alls with their fancy-pants MD degrees" shtick, as sometimes seen here on the MFP forums, and there's a time to listen to what medical professionals are saying. Better, in the case of sodium intake, to be a bit less iconoclastic and live a longer, healthier life. It doesn't take much effort to eat a lower sodium diet.
Many of the people who are dieting are dieting because they are obese. High BP goes hand in hand with that obesity. Those who are encouraging people with either high BP or potential obesity-related high BP in the future to take sodium intake casually or outright ignore it as part of their diet are ... not being helpful, to put it mildly.1 -
I'm interested in why they are reducing from 2300 to 1500. Is it just because our population is heavier now (ie more likely to have BP problems)?
My BP is on the low side and I occasionally get dizzy for a few seconds when I stand up. From what I read, I should be trying to get more salt/sodium in my diet.6 -
Good review of the discussion in this link. TLDR is if you don't have high BP, don't limit salt.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sodium-per-day#recommendations0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »To 8 people: When you find yourself "disagreeing" with the official guidelines for sodium supported by MyFitnessPal and established by the American Heart Association, it might be time to rethink things. There's believing what you read on the web, and then there's going off the reservation.
MFP's "official guidelines" also "support" having zero MUFA and PUFA, which would be a seriously bad thing since it would mean zero EFAs.
Yeah, OK, but I was referring to a well-established standard for sodium intake from the American Heart Association, a standard which is very strongly supported by doctors, including and especially cardiologists, as literally anyone who's ever discussed sodium, BP, and heart health with a doctor knows.
The AHA says 1,500 mg of sodium should be the maximum amount that most adults consume per day, excluding those with unusual health conditions. This is not some old-school thinking or out of date mantra; in fact, the 1,500 mg is based on the latest and greatest research, from the last 10 years. The old # used to be 2,500 and is what MFP's metric is based on.
There's a time and place for the rebellious, iconoclastic "We know better than the know-it-alls with their fancy-pants MD degrees" shtick, as sometimes seen here on the MFP forums, and there's a time to listen to what medical professionals are saying. Better, in the case of sodium intake, to be a bit less iconoclastic and live a longer, healthier life. It doesn't take much effort to eat a lower sodium diet.
Many of the people who are dieting are dieting because they are obese. High BP goes hand in hand with that obesity. Those who are encouraging people with either high BP or potential obesity-related high BP in the future to take sodium intake casually or outright ignore it as part of their diet are ... not being helpful, to put it mildly.
I believe you are generalizing too much. My wife goes to several cardiologist and i have spoken with them about diet for almost a decade. None of them have concerns for those without high blood pressure. And there are many incidents where high sodium intake is recommended, especially those who live in hotter environments, athletes and with medical conditions. My wife has to consume 7000-10000 mg of sodium a day.
And just because something is a recommended guideline doesn't mean it is supoortted by a lot of science. Look at fiber. That was derived without significant amounts of evidence. The evidence on SFA is limited and mostly based on epidemiology studies. And in many cases those same epidemiology studies didn't find statistically significant results.
And just to point out, doctors are often not educated on the evidence but rather follow the advise and guidelines of organization. This has been shown with those with diabetes. The ADA is only now starting to recommend low carb diets which have been shown for a long time to be beneficial to diabetes management.5 -
[/quote]
And lets face it, often the dietary guidelines aren't always backed by strong science. Just look at the issues with protein. [/quote]
Just curious, I know many people consider the protein guideline too low, but I believe that is posted as a minimum? I've never seen anything from the government or a respected health organization stating a maximum amount of protein.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I've got 20 years under my belt of doctor guidance on sodium due to borderline high BP and a family history of heart disease. Here's the scoop as it's been told to me over the decades by one doctor after another, including a cardiologist in the middle there somewhere.
The human body only needs 500 mg of sodium per day. You shouldn't eat less than that. But that isn't really an issue, because it's virtually impossible to eat less than 500 mg. That's approximately the sodium content of one average sized bagel with nothing on it.
Nobody "should" be eating more than 2,300 mg / day. MFP's default reflects the conventional wisdom in medicine on that one.
As everyone who logs food on MFP has discovered, it's very easy to exceed 2,300, especially if that includes processed or restaurant food. I just went to PF Changs the other day and was looking over their nutrition stuff. A bowl of hot and sour soup has 3,800 mg. Mongolian Beef has 2,300. For that matter, the soy sauce that people use as a condiment at places like Changs has 700 mg PER TEASPOON, and hot sauces are generally 200-500 mg per teaspoon. An innocent looking turkey and swiss sandwich I made out of Boar's Head cold cuts, one of them being "reduced sodium turkey", added up to 1100 mg. So, that 2300 number is not a walk in the park. This is why Americans average 3,300 mg per day, which is way, way over the recommended amount for good health.
The American Heart Association says 1,500 should be the limit for most people, certainly for anyone over 40 or with any history (theirs or their family's) of heart disease, stroke, etc. 1,500 can be extremely hard to achieve unless one is (a) cooking one's own food, and (b) really paying attention to the sodium.
I aim for 1500-2000 and usually manage to be in that range, but can't pull it off when eating at a restaurant. I try to make > 2000 days very rare.
Sodium is one of those things that's easy to ignore, especially for people trying to drill down on calories and not wanting to get overwhelmed with chasing different rabbits down different holes. So it's understandable that a lot of people don't pay much attention to sodium, but the problems it causes over time aren't problems at all until suddenly they are gigantic problems and then your life is different forever. It's hugely better to adopt a low-sodium mindset and behaviors early in the game of life and stick to it.
Disagree on the "nobody should be eating more than 2,300 mg/day. In the past I have trained for and participated in numerous multi hour endurance events. You sweat buckets, particularly in the summer when it's 100F+ out there and even hotter on the black top. You lose a ton of salt doing those and that needs to be replenished. When I first started training for these things I was trying to keep my sodium low because I'm hypertensive but I kept cramping up all of the time. I spoke to my Dr. who works at a heart hospital and is also a triathlete and he told me to up my sodium despite being hypertensive because I was doing so much endurance work.
It's the old test taking trick. If a true/false question says "all, everybody, nobody", etc it's going to be false. Of course if you look at the scenario you mention we're not talking about many people in that situation.
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OK...so i found that the 2300 milligrams of required daily salt is equal to...you ready???? 1 TEASPOON of salt...so in that perspective, it isnt that much, just sounds like a lot when you put it in that perspective. Unless you are someone who is a salt junky...which I am not...0
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goldthistime wrote: »I'm interested in why they are reducing from 2300 to 1500. Is it just because our population is heavier now (ie more likely to have BP problems)?
My BP is on the low side and I occasionally get dizzy for a few seconds when I stand up. From what I read, I should be trying to get more salt/sodium in my diet.
Yeah, I also have orthostatic hypotension (Blood pressure drops when I change position - sitting to standing, mostly) and low blood pressure. One of my doctors was inquiring at one point about what was different between my diet in college when it was *not* a problem, and my new diet when it *was,* and the difference was "not living on ramen anymore."
So, after a bit of giggling, the doctor advised me to eat a more salt, and have some ramen from time to time as I felt it was needed.
When I camp, I usually have a few packs of ramen in my kit, for when the gatorade just isn't keeping up with my sweat output. When I stand up and sway a bit, my friends jokingly remind me to hit up the, "prescription ramen stash."2 -
I don't track sodium. I also don't have high BP and am not super active so I should be in the mid-range of sodium consumption. I DO try to eat reduced sodium and I have since college and a doctor recommended it to help manage PMS symptoms (now that I am post-menopausal I still do because I lost the taste for salty foods . . . except popcorn). Even though I don't track it, the info is still there in MFP and I check it occasionally. My days range from a little less than 1000 mg up to close to 3000 (average is about 1800) if I ate a lot of cheese or the aforementioned popcorn.
My serum sodium ranges between 139 and 143 and is usually at 141 (normal range is 137-146) so my organs are doing their job filtering out excess while retaining the right amount.
I find that I crave saltier foods when I am more active or it is really hot out. I am sure that is my body telling me to up the sodium a little so I can stay in balance.
I found it easy to reduce sodium, mostly by not salting foods either while cooking or at the table. I flavor them with herbs and spices and even a steak or burger only needs some quality black pepper. Sandwich meat is usually reduced sodium or meat I cook and slice myself. I don't eat a lot of convenience foods like frozen dinners, but I also don't worry about the sodium content if I do because I don't add salt to other things. When I started eating lower sodium, there wasn't a lot of processed foods made reduced sodium (this WAS the mid 70's after all) but it was still easy.
tl:dr Many do not have to worry about sodium but if you do, it is pretty easy to do and your taste buds adjust quickly.1 -
goldthistime wrote: »I'm interested in why they are reducing from 2300 to 1500. Is it just because our population is heavier now (ie more likely to have BP problems)?
My BP is on the low side and I occasionally get dizzy for a few seconds when I stand up. From what I read, I should be trying to get more salt/sodium in my diet.
Yes, when I was living at home with my health-conscious mother and presumably eating a lot less salt I had low BP and dizziness when I got up. Not an issue now that I am a salt-aholic.3
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