The toxic masculinity thread
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This.So what I actually find most offensive and unjust is the fact that people feel it is ok to take pictures and videos of others without their permission, and have an inability to confront someone directly if they have an issue with their actions or behaviour. If this woman had come up to you and said "sir the way you are sitting is making me somewhat uncomfortable and is not entirely appropriate for a public setting, could you please close your legs?" in a friendly and open way I'm sure things would have gone differently. Or she could have looked away as you weren't hurting or inconveniencing anyone and potentially not everyone thinks this is an inappropriate position for a public setting. Really though, I hate this culture that is "out to get" everyone, rather than looking to help or understand each other.
The onslaught of smartphones is encroaching into citizen boundaries
This may need its own thread but I found myself in a gym *kitten* kind of video of another’s Instagram.
The guy was a moron though, he tagged the gym location and that is how I found out. He put up my picture and some 200 people were commenting on it.1 -
jacktherower wrote: »
This.So what I actually find most offensive and unjust is the fact that people feel it is ok to take pictures and videos of others without their permission, and have an inability to confront someone directly if they have an issue with their actions or behaviour. If this woman had come up to you and said "sir the way you are sitting is making me somewhat uncomfortable and is not entirely appropriate for a public setting, could you please close your legs?" in a friendly and open way I'm sure things would have gone differently. Or she could have looked away as you weren't hurting or inconveniencing anyone and potentially not everyone thinks this is an inappropriate position for a public setting. Really though, I hate this culture that is "out to get" everyone, rather than looking to help or understand each other.
The onslaught of smartphones is encroaching into citizen boundaries
This may need its own thread but I found myself in a gym *kitten* kind of video of another’s Instagram.
The guy was a moron though, he tagged the gym location and that is how I found out. He put up my picture and some 200 people were commenting on it.
It seems like what you and fernt21 are talking about is more the general douchebaggery of public shaming. That is not a toxic masculinity trait but a general toxic society trait that social media and smartphones have made so easy to do by anyone, not gender-specific. I think it needs its own thread, lol.
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I wouldn't think spreading legs is toxic or masculine, it's just rude in some contexts. And to other's point it is also necessary in some situations. Regardless, people shouldn't rush to judge and label everyone.
I think this is still on topic...
It seems like people are out to ruin the below guys life because of a butt slap. But, butt slapping can be seen everywhere just about all the time, NFL games, President Bush slapping President Obama's butt, and especially women's volleyball to name a few.
A few notes:
Legally this is not sexual assault. And we shouldn't trivialize the victims of true sexual assault by claiming otherwise. Legally this is battery. This is not groping or fondling.
Maybe not on topic, but in light of the above I think Lizzo's indecent exposure / "body positivity" at a LA Lakers game is the greater offense.
Sounds to me like you're trying to say it's justified simply because it qualifies as battery and not groping/fondling/assault. How is it being one better than the other? Clearly, the person didn't ask for the reporter's permission, doesn't know her backstory or personal history (or even know her personally) and still somehow thought it was okay to slap her bum?
Editing to add here: I am NOT saying that we should be ruining this dude's life for this offense, but he should definitely be taught a lesson and learn to respect the personal spaces of others. What he did is not okay and he should be made aware of that. Sounds like he has been: publicly.
Stuff like that is EXACTLY the reason we have issues still with getting people to uphold equal rights. Most women (not all, mind you) do NOT enjoy personal contact with random people.. of any gender. It's just a complete lack of respect and personal space.
On topic: Manspreading (the fact that this is a word is outrageous to me) - if your "display" is only intended for comfort, is not infringing on the rights of other people and you aren't exposing yourself or doing it in some display of masculinity (because I'm sorry, I know PLENTY of men who have no problem crossing their legs or closing their legs to fit within the space of a seat, so I don't buy that whole "I need space to let my balls breathe" excuse), then chances are, I'm not going to have a problem (and neither are most others I've known.
HOWEVER, if you're taking up a bunch of space on public transit or in places where space is limited for all patrons, I will politely ask you to adjust your position if I need your seat and then probably have some terse words with you if you give me *kitten* about it. You have no more right to the seat space than any other person and unlike an obese person, disabled person or pregnant person, you can willingly choose to take up less space for a few moments.
Do I expect you to give up your seat because I'm female or pregnant (when I was)? *kitten* no. That's absolutely absurd to expect a random stranger to give up a seat (for any reason). If they choose to, then that is super nice of them and they are good folks who deserve my respect and gratitude, but I wouldn't expect it.4 -
Most situations like this can be resolved simply by saying:
" I don't value your opinion; you mean nothing to me."
I'm pretty much a " Go Eff Yourself " kinda guy.
*shrug2 -
Motorsheen wrote: »Most situations like this can be resolved simply by saying:
" I don't value your opinion; you mean nothing to me."
I'm pretty much a " Go Eff Yourself " kinda guy.
*shrug
You say that, but I don't believe you.
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CanesGalactica wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »Most situations like this can be resolved simply by saying:
" I don't value your opinion; you mean nothing to me."
I'm pretty much a " Go Eff Yourself " kinda guy.
*shrug
You say that, but I don't believe you.
no, really...
I don't have the time or energy to take smack from a stranger.
If somebody is a friend or a neighbor or an acquaintance, sure... we'll talk.
But to take any truculent conversation from a stranger... nope; it ain't going to happen.
1 -
jacktherower wrote: »
This.So what I actually find most offensive and unjust is the fact that people feel it is ok to take pictures and videos of others without their permission, and have an inability to confront someone directly if they have an issue with their actions or behaviour. If this woman had come up to you and said "sir the way you are sitting is making me somewhat uncomfortable and is not entirely appropriate for a public setting, could you please close your legs?" in a friendly and open way I'm sure things would have gone differently. Or she could have looked away as you weren't hurting or inconveniencing anyone and potentially not everyone thinks this is an inappropriate position for a public setting. Really though, I hate this culture that is "out to get" everyone, rather than looking to help or understand each other.
The onslaught of smartphones is encroaching into citizen boundaries
This may need its own thread but I found myself in a gym *kitten* kind of video of another’s Instagram.
The guy was a moron though, he tagged the gym location and that is how I found out. He put up my picture and some 200 people were commenting on it.
A friend of mine at the gym caught a lady photographing him as he was training.
Dude went off.
He embarrassed the lady in front of a lot of people. I doubt that she'll even bring her phone into the gym again.2 -
Motorsheen wrote: »CanesGalactica wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »Most situations like this can be resolved simply by saying:
" I don't value your opinion; you mean nothing to me."
I'm pretty much a " Go Eff Yourself " kinda guy.
*shrug
You say that, but I don't believe you.
no, really...
I don't have the time or energy to take smack from a stranger.
If somebody is a friend or a neighbor or an acquaintance, sure... we'll talk.
But to take any truculent conversation from a stranger... nope; it ain't going to happen.
So.. do you just walk off or do you get confrontational in response? Not necessarily violent, just.. you take no *kitten* and put people back in their place when they do dumb *kitten*?0 -
CanesGalactica wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »CanesGalactica wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »Most situations like this can be resolved simply by saying:
" I don't value your opinion; you mean nothing to me."
I'm pretty much a " Go Eff Yourself " kinda guy.
*shrug
You say that, but I don't believe you.
no, really...
I don't have the time or energy to take smack from a stranger.
If somebody is a friend or a neighbor or an acquaintance, sure... we'll talk.
But to take any truculent conversation from a stranger... nope; it ain't going to happen.
So.. do you just walk off or do you get confrontational in response? Not necessarily violent, just.. you take no *kitten* and put people back in their place when they do dumb *kitten*?
Violent? No. Heck No. ....not even close.
Case in point:
Yesterday there was a guy complaining about not being able to get a bench at the gym.
I was using one and threw my sweatshirt on it, walked away for 60 seconds (no longer) to get a drink of water and came right back.
This guy said to me: You can't save benches like that when people are waiting.
I told him that I wasn't saving it, I was using it.... and that he had choices.
I told him he could work-in or he could keep his mouth shut. Either one was good with me.
I put my earbuds back in and did three more sets. No worries.
Thing is, people will treat you the way they want to if you let them.
.1 -
Some no-life nutcase actually called my boss this summer to complain about my POF profile.
I simply said I wanted a feminine woman, not a crude, aging hippie...6 -
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I wouldn't think spreading legs is toxic or masculine, it's just rude in some contexts. And to other's point it is also necessary in some situations. Regardless, people shouldn't rush to judge and label everyone.
I think this is still on topic...
It seems like people are out to ruin the below guys life because of a butt slap. But, butt slapping can be seen everywhere just about all the time, NFL games, President Bush slapping President Obama's butt, and especially women's volleyball to name a few.
A few notes:
Legally this is not sexual assault. And we shouldn't trivialize the victims of true sexual assault by claiming otherwise. Legally this is battery. This is not groping or fondling.
Maybe not on topic, but in light of the above I think Lizzo's indecent exposure / "body positivity" at a LA Lakers game is the greater offense.
Yikes to this post.
1. Comparing this incident to a sportsman-like trend or between known friends/associates is trivializing the assault. They are completely different situations and to equate unwanted, unexpected touching to a thing done between friends is, on trend to this thread, toxic masculinity behavior as this man felt he had the right to touch a woman inappropriately without her permission. Or, he thought it was a "joke," which is worse.
2. The definition of "sexual assault" varies state by state here in the US, but generally it is any type of sexual activity or contact that one does not consent to. This incident could very well be considered sexual assault, and hold up in court depending on her state.
3. Reading quotes from the reporter regarding the incident, she expressed multiple times that this man took her power, objectified her, and 'helped himself' to a part of her body. She was violated by a strange man while performing her job duties. This is not trivializing victims of "true sexual assault." And this is coming from a woman who has been raped on multiple occasions. Rape is not the only 'true sexual assault.'
4. Being uncomfortable by a person showing their body is one thing. To say indecent exposure, a misdemeanor, is more offensive than sexual assault though? Double yikes.6 -
Bridge_marie wrote: »People are weird....
Boy Howdy.1
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