Yoga and Pilates: Is it exercise?
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You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.0 -
liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle6 -
liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study0 -
I teach yoga and can tell you it is definitely a form of exercise. However, if weight loss and changing your body composition is your goal, it is best to complement a yoga and/or pilates practice with a variety of strength training programs -- bodyweight, dumbbell or barbell workouts will all build strength. If you are looking for calorie burn, you've got to get your heart rate up -- HIIT training is excellent for that (and it doesn't have to last long to be effective). If you want to change your body composition and/or shape, you have to use significant resistance to push the muscle -- it takes a lot of effort to significantly change your shape. But....you can get great tone and firm things up with a less intense strength training program.1
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paulaturse wrote: »I teach yoga and can tell you it is definitely a form of exercise. However, if weight loss and changing your body composition is your goal, it is best to complement a yoga and/or pilates practice with a variety of strength training programs -- bodyweight, dumbbell or barbell workouts will all build strength. If you are looking for calorie burn, you've got to get your heart rate up -- HIIT training is excellent for that (and it doesn't have to last long to be effective). If you want to change your body composition and/or shape, you have to use significant resistance to push the muscle -- it takes a lot of effort to significantly change your shape. But....you can get great tone and firm things up with a less intense strength training program.
Exactly! Good advice here.1 -
liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study
I would not be shocked if pilates were to rank above calisthenics with regards to strength, especially abdominal strength. Regardless of your list, both yoga and pilates are forms of exercise.1 -
liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study
I would not be shocked if pilates were to rank above calisthenics with regards to strength, especially abdominal strength. Regardless of your list, both yoga and pilates are forms of exercise.
Never said they weren't exercise. My whole point is not as effective as lifting weights for building/maintaining muscle mass thus sub optimal for changing body composition. Sub optimal doesn't mean ineffective. I would say yoga and pilates are along the same lines for core strength as calisthenics but not in upper and lower body or overall strength.
I'm not knocking yoga, I actually use it quite often to help with joint mobility and for clients that are starting at a very low level fitness and are intimidated by barbell exercises. You gotta meet people where they are when it comes to training. There is no type of exercise that isn't helpful depending on the circumstances.
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liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study
i question the validity of your statement and want the evidence
one study based on a limited population(MS) does not make it 100% proven. there are so many varieties of yoga. hatha is not calisthenics and it was poor comparison... there are so many levels of MS too. and yoga can include resistance training. this study was so very very limited.
i don't think you are familiar with vinyasa and/or power yoga. which can be as basic or advanced as you want
i don't value mobility more. i hated picking up heavy inanimate objects and putting them down again. i did enjoy bodyweight exercises. convict training, ybyg, power, vinyasa, trx...
as far as the list
yoga-what kind? it's like just saying cardio. what kind? it's meaningless by being so broad.3 -
Absolutely! I do hot power yoga multiple times a week and it is a killer workout for me. I am always sore afterwards
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liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study
i question the validity of your statement and want the evidence
one study based on a limited population(MS) does not make it 100% proven. there are so many varieties of yoga. hatha is not calisthenics and it was poor comparison... there are so many levels of MS too. and yoga can include resistance training. this study was so very very limited.
i don't think you are familiar with vinyasa and/or power yoga. which can be as basic or advanced as you want
i don't value mobility more. i hated picking up heavy inanimate objects and putting them down again. i did enjoy bodyweight exercises. convict training, ybyg, power, vinyasa, trx...
as far as the list
yoga-what kind? it's like just saying cardio. what kind? it's meaningless by being so broad.
OK, simple test of logic. Have you every seen anyone that only practice yoga win a weight lifting competition or a bodybuilding competition?
I'm familiar with all the popular versions of Yoga but there is zero argument that yoga is as effective as barbell training for strength and building muscle. If you think that you have zero understanding of how exercise physiology works.0 -
liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study
i question the validity of your statement and want the evidence
one study based on a limited population(MS) does not make it 100% proven. there are so many varieties of yoga. hatha is not calisthenics and it was poor comparison... there are so many levels of MS too. and yoga can include resistance training. this study was so very very limited.
i don't think you are familiar with vinyasa and/or power yoga. which can be as basic or advanced as you want
i don't value mobility more. i hated picking up heavy inanimate objects and putting them down again. i did enjoy bodyweight exercises. convict training, ybyg, power, vinyasa, trx...
as far as the list
yoga-what kind? it's like just saying cardio. what kind? it's meaningless by being so broad.
OK, simple test of logic. Have you every seen anyone that only practice yoga win a weight lifting competition or a bodybuilding competition?
I'm familiar with all the popular versions of Yoga but there is zero argument that yoga is as effective as barbell training for strength and building muscle. If you think that you have zero understanding of how exercise physiology works.
i would imagine that a yoga practitioner typically doesn't have the goal to do those types of competitions.1 -
liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study
i question the validity of your statement and want the evidence
one study based on a limited population(MS) does not make it 100% proven. there are so many varieties of yoga. hatha is not calisthenics and it was poor comparison... there are so many levels of MS too. and yoga can include resistance training. this study was so very very limited.
i don't think you are familiar with vinyasa and/or power yoga. which can be as basic or advanced as you want
i don't value mobility more. i hated picking up heavy inanimate objects and putting them down again. i did enjoy bodyweight exercises. convict training, ybyg, power, vinyasa, trx...
as far as the list
yoga-what kind? it's like just saying cardio. what kind? it's meaningless by being so broad.
OK, simple test of logic. Have you every seen anyone that only practice yoga win a weight lifting competition or a bodybuilding competition?
I'm familiar with all the popular versions of Yoga but there is zero argument that yoga is as effective as barbell training for strength and building muscle. If you think that you have zero understanding of how exercise physiology works.
i would imagine that a yoga practitioner typically doesn't have the goal to do those types of competitions.
Yes, and they would fail miserably at them because it's sub-optimal for strength and body composition.
Can you get stronger doing yoga? Yes. Can you build some muscle? Yes.
It's just not optimal for those purposes. Not optimal doesn't mean it's not good. If you can get a little stronger, build a little muscle and get more mobility that's great. But if your primary goals are to get strong and build muscle then yoga is the wrong modality.
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liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »You can't argue science "bro", science has clearly shown that lifting weights, by far, affects body composition more than any other type of exercise. It doesn't mean you can't get results with yoga or that you don't get tired or your heart rate doesn't stay up. It simply means that it's not going to build as much muscle or help you retain muscle as much as lifting does.
If you are in a caloric deficit and do just yoga, you're going to lose significantly more muscle than if you had don't compound lifts.
There have been literally hundreds of studies on this at this point.
Like I said, not that you can't improve body composition with yoga, it's just suboptimal.
n=1
i don't lift weights. i lift me (yoga). i am the weights.
i was soft and had no muscle.
now, i'm less soft and have muscle
Again, read what I wrote. I never said you can't get in better shape with yoga. I said it's sub-optimal, meaning it's not the best way to go about it from a physiological point of view. That's 100% proven by science at this point, can't really be disputed. Now if you don't like lifting weights then yoga is an alternative but you will not cause hypertrophy and strength games the same way as people who lift do. In fact, old fashion calisthenics is more efficient in building muscle and strength than yoga but yoga is the mobility king, no doubt.
The hierarchy for building muscle and strength are as follows:
#1-Barbell compound lifts
#2-Machines/Kettlebells/dumbells
#3-Calisthenics
#4-Yoga
You could make an argument that advanced yoga could be up there with calisthenics but that's as far as it goes.
This doesn't mean you can't build muscle or get fit with yoga, it just means that you value mobility more.
Here's one study that shows that even basic calisthenics performs better to improve leg strength than yoga:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327251900_Effects_of_8-Week_Home-Based_Yoga_and_Resistance_Training_on_Muscle_Strength_Functional_Capacity_and_Balance_in_Patients_with_Multiple_Sclerosis_A_Randomized_Controlled_Study
I would not be shocked if pilates were to rank above calisthenics with regards to strength, especially abdominal strength. Regardless of your list, both yoga and pilates are forms of exercise.
Never said they weren't exercise. My whole point is not as effective as lifting weights for building/maintaining muscle mass thus sub optimal for changing body composition. Sub optimal doesn't mean ineffective. I would say yoga and pilates are along the same lines for core strength as calisthenics but not in upper and lower body or overall strength.
I'm not knocking yoga, I actually use it quite often to help with joint mobility and for clients that are starting at a very low level fitness and are intimidated by barbell exercises. You gotta meet people where they are when it comes to training. There is no type of exercise that isn't helpful depending on the circumstances.
I didn't say you that you said they weren't exercise. That said, the original post talks about how someone said that neither yoga nor pilates were forms exercise. Again looking at the OP's post and also taking into account your thought, which I share, about meeting people where they're at, the first post says:I just had a friend tell me that unless I was lifting I wasn't doing anything. And sure, I'm not saying just do yoga, but not counting it at all?
I think we can both agree that that OP's friend is wrong here. Never mind that there are quite a lot of things that lifting, when done alone (so not in addition to various other forms of exercise) is really not helpful for.1 -
springlering62 wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Exercise, yes, but sub optimal for changing body composition.
This
For me it’s the reverse. I do the weights to build strength for the yoga, instead of the other way round.0 -
I have done both and both are exercise. I don't burn nearly as many calories doing pilates as I do doing my own weight lifting routines or during kettle bell class but I can tell you that nothing killed my abs like pilates. I absolutely second the person that mentioned the bodybuilder types who try it out because they think it is a joke until they discover their abs/quads/glutes are on freaking fire. It all depends on what you are trying to get out of it. Pilates will definitely help get you a killer core and work on your flexibility and balance. You aren't going to get a bodybuilder physique doing just pilates but you will certainly tone up and gain strength (sometimes quite a bit of strength depending on where you are starting from)! If you want to compete for the World's Strongest Man/Woman you will need a different training regime but if you are trying to exercise to get healthy and strong pilates is definitely a way to go.2
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