Anyone get headaches?

sdavis484
sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Even if I'm properly and thoroughly hydrating, I tend to get headaches more when I exercise. Anyone else?
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Replies

  • nighthawk584
    nighthawk584 Posts: 2,024 Member
    Occasionally, but my biggest issue is low blood sugar during a workout. I have to make sure to eat a protein bar with a lot of carbs right before exercise.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,300 Member
    Not sure if it would matter... but are you eating at a deficit and size of deficit? How close to the exercise are you eating (before/after)? Length/duration/intensity of exercise? Trying to figure out if you may have an energy availability issue during the exercise. And in to see what others have to say :smile: Hope that the headaches are well controlled and not too onerous!
  • sdavis484
    sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
    nighthawk584 wrote: »
    Occasionally, but my biggest issue is low blood sugar during a workout. I have to make sure to eat a protein bar with a lot of carbs right before exercise.

    Could that be my trouble? I try to always workout "fasted" except for coffee with cream/sugar.
  • sdavis484
    sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
    edited February 2020
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    Not sure if it would matter... but are you eating at a deficit and size of deficit? How close to the exercise are you eating (before/after)? Length/duration/intensity of exercise? Trying to figure out if you may have an energy availability issue during the exercise. And in to see what others have to say :smile: Hope that the headaches are well controlled and not too onerous!

    Thanks! Not too onerous but frequent especially around TOM which may play into it. I try to eat within 2 hours of working out. Intensity is hard but I keep hydrated. I saw my doctor about this very thing probably a decade ago, his response was that I was working out too hard which I felt like was a curious explanation.....I haven't been working too hard as I've was sick all week. Today was is my first workout since getting better.
  • sdavis484
    sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
    Also, I recently readjusted my weight loss to 1lb per week. And I've been instructed to eat back all exercise calories. I feel dubious about that point because like today I did a high intensity aerobics class and burned over 430 cals on my Fitbit. Possible?
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,300 Member
    edited February 2020
    Just be careful not to conflate complete burn with ADDITIONAL burn because of the exercise.

    I would look at your Fitbit's FINAL NUMBER for the day and compare that to the activity level you selected on MFP.

    That's the "extra" calories you can actually eat assuming accurate tracking of calories in, out, and you being close to the mean as most but not people will be.


    **** **** ****

    Burns are calculated as multipliers of your BMR on both Fitbit and MFP.

    Fitbit "educated guesses" an expenditure based on the activity it detects and averages over 5 minute increments. It takes the average of the 5 minutes and assigns it a single MET value and thus comes up with the caloric expenditure for the time interval.

    A high heart rate, or increased heart rate that is not associated with steady state activity has the potential to fool it a bit.

    But you're playing at the margins a bit, as horseshoes and hand grenades are usually good enough for our purposes and already more "accurate" than what most people are dealing with when they try to calibrate by hunger and instant scale results as opposed to metrics and weight TREND results.

    So. The important thing to consider is that MFP is already assigning you a 1.25 BMR (or 1.4, or 1.6, or 1.8x BMR) number of calories per minute of that exercise.

    And it gets a little bit more complicated too if you just look at the activity in isolation. MFP gives you that 1.25 no matter what you're doing. Fitbit is giving you 1.0 when it doesn't detect anything but 10 when it is detecting hard running for example. They both have errors but usually non biased errors cancel each other as opposed to reinforce each other. So you're trying to interleave an isolated detection of just the activity itself. I think that this will have the potential for a higher percentage of error than looking at the whole day's calories and going with that (this second thing is what MFP-Fitbit integration does)

    Specifically for your class, you're saying you burned 430 Cal or a bit more than 7 or 8 Cal a minute depending on duration. Many people's BMR would be AROUND 1.0 Cal a minute (1440 minutes in a day, average American woman BMR 1400 / man 1800). So this would be around an 7-8x activity... and aerobics, high impact has a MET value of 7.3 (aerobics low impact is 5.0)... within the range in other words assuming you don't have an abnormally high heart rate while exercising.

    Thus I don't see any reason without details as to why we would call the value implausible. It looks to me as if Fitbit detected aerobics and assigned to it the generally acceptable activity factor for that activity and duration. Or at the very least something very close to it unless your MFP BMR (https://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator) would make the value implausible.

    Do remember that apparent accuracy depends on both sides of the ledger (including accuracy of food logging). Hence the adage to adjust after 4-6 weeks (so as to include a full monthly hormonal cycle) based on logging and weight trend results (with fitbit it is trivial to connect trendweight.com)
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,300 Member
    I would consider cream and sugar to be energy sources depending on their quantity. In any case, things may also improve with your new, lower, deficit.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    You could experiment with having something a little more carby prior to workouts, see if that helps. Even just a piece of fruit.
  • csplatt
    csplatt Posts: 1,206 Member
    I do. I think I strain my neck when I lift. It helps if I wear a low ponytail vs high because when I need to lean back I have better neck posture. I used to wonder if La Croix caused headaches but couldn’t find any research. I got them so often day after a hard workout. I just switched from heavy lifting to Orange Theory. I am curious if it changes.
  • OHFlamingo
    OHFlamingo Posts: 239 Member
    The only headaches I get are the awful ones I get if I don't eat within about 15 minutes of getting up in the morning.
    If I do anything the least bit active before eating, my morning is miserable. I wouldn't even try to exercise before eating! I've always been like this. Must be low blood sugar, I guess.
  • lx1x
    lx1x Posts: 38,330 Member
    Yes.. but not from exercise.

    Either from stress or hunger
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    I get headaches if my blood sugar goes too low. Maybe eat something with a few more carbs and fiber. Fruit is a good idea but also something like a bowl of oatmeal or a slice of whole grain toast with a bit of butter or peanut butter for a bit of protein.
  • sdavis484
    sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    Just be careful not to conflate complete burn with ADDITIONAL burn because of the exercise.

    I would look at your Fitbit's FINAL NUMBER for the day and compare that to the activity level you selected on MFP.

    That's the "extra" calories you can actually eat assuming accurate tracking of calories in, out, and you being close to the mean as most but not people will be.


    **** **** ****

    Burns are calculated as multipliers of your BMR on both Fitbit and MFP.

    Fitbit "educated guesses" an expenditure based on the activity it detects and averages over 5 minute increments. It takes the average of the 5 minutes and assigns it a single MET value and thus comes up with the caloric expenditure for the time interval.

    A high heart rate, or increased heart rate that is not associated with steady state activity has the potential to fool it a bit.

    But you're playing at the margins a bit, as horseshoes and hand grenades are usually good enough for our purposes and already more "accurate" than what most people are dealing with when they try to calibrate by hunger and instant scale results as opposed to metrics and weight TREND results.

    So. The important thing to consider is that MFP is already assigning you a 1.25 BMR (or 1.4, or 1.6, or 1.8x BMR) number of calories per minute of that exercise.

    And it gets a little bit more complicated too if you just look at the activity in isolation. MFP gives you that 1.25 no matter what you're doing. Fitbit is giving you 1.0 when it doesn't detect anything but 10 when it is detecting hard running for example. They both have errors but usually non biased errors cancel each other as opposed to reinforce each other. So you're trying to interleave an isolated detection of just the activity itself. I think that this will have the potential for a higher percentage of error than looking at the whole day's calories and going with that (this second thing is what MFP-Fitbit integration does)

    Specifically for your class, you're saying you burned 430 Cal or a bit more than 7 or 8 Cal a minute depending on duration. Many people's BMR would be AROUND 1.0 Cal a minute (1440 minutes in a day, average American woman BMR 1400 / man 1800). So this would be around an 7-8x activity... and aerobics, high impact has a MET value of 7.3 (aerobics low impact is 5.0)... within the range in other words assuming you don't have an abnormally high heart rate while exercising.

    Thus I don't see any reason without details as to why we would call the value implausible. It looks to me as if Fitbit detected aerobics and assigned to it the generally acceptable activity factor for that activity and duration. Or at the very least something very close to it unless your MFP BMR (https://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator) would make the value implausible.

    Do remember that apparent accuracy depends on both sides of the ledger (including accuracy of food logging). Hence the adage to adjust after 4-6 weeks (so as to include a full monthly hormonal cycle) based on logging and weight trend results (with fitbit it is trivial to connect trendweight.com)

    So, since the exercise cals given are "complete" burn does FB then subtract those extra "existing" calories from my main FB calorie burn? Therefore the calories won't be represented in 2 ledgers ( exercise and main)??
  • sdavis484
    sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
    edited February 2020
    If I eat back 100% of the calories and those existing calories (my activity is set to sedentary) aren't subtracted, it could lead to weight gain.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,300 Member
    edited February 2020
    Fitbit takes care of its own accounting and it comes up with a final figure for the calories you've burned to the end of day (TDEE)

    That is what it records, historically, as your burn for the day.

    That is what it synchronizes with mfp at 23:59, assuming integration is enabled and working properly.

    The individual activity numbers are just informational and can be ignored in terms of calculating an eating goal.

    I find it easier to just automate within the limits of the tools. It sounds to me like you're trying to potentially manually override.

    I would not for example look at an exercise on Fitbit and manually enter it as an exercise on MFP. If you were to do that, you would potentially back pollute your Fitbit data if you ever were to enable integration. This is because this manual exercise will override what Fitbit detected during that same time period. Also, as mentioned, the burn for the exercise will be overstated by at least 0.25 BMR per minute Calories because of your mfp sedentary setting.

    There are two different types of numbers that are called the same on the MFP app.

    An exercise burn directly measuring an exercise. This burn is gross while you probably want the net value. It is a major reason for the "eat most but not all your stated exercise calories" advice.

    An exercise burn that is related to fitness tracker - MFP integration. This number is a net number of extra expenditure your tracker detected when compared to what MFP expected you to burn based on your stated activity setting.

    This number will keep changing and will only be final at midnight. If everything is working properly (logging, you, the universe) these calories can all be eaten while meeting your stated goals.

  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    TLDR; of @PAV8888's post, trust your Fitbit, and the adjustment that it sends over to MFP. You don't need to worry about anything else.
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    TLDR; of @PAV8888's post, trust your Fitbit, and the adjustment that it sends over to MFP. You don't need to worry about anything else.

    I agree with this.
  • Mak33dr
    Mak33dr Posts: 6 Member
    Try deep breathing in and out when doing exercises, might be the oxygen circulation flow, we sometimes tend to forget to breathe properly when engrossed with exercise routine. Just keep in mind, hope it helps.
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    Mak33dr wrote: »
    Try deep breathing in and out when doing exercises, might be the oxygen circulation flow, we sometimes tend to forget to breathe properly when engrossed with exercise routine. Just keep in mind, hope it helps.

    Also. if you are running or walking try to not make a fist or hold tightly on to something. Gripping with your hands can often cause you to tighten your chest muscles, making it harder to breathe in enough oxygen. An old cross county coach's trick was to pinch the thumb and middle finger together. It only tightens the forearm muscles.
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    earlnabby wrote: »
    Mak33dr wrote: »
    Try deep breathing in and out when doing exercises, might be the oxygen circulation flow, we sometimes tend to forget to breathe properly when engrossed with exercise routine. Just keep in mind, hope it helps.

    Also. if you are running or walking try to not make a fist or hold tightly on to something. Gripping with your hands can often cause you to tighten your chest muscles, making it harder to breathe in enough oxygen. An old cross county coach's trick was to pinch the thumb and middle finger together. It only tightens the forearm muscles.

    A running group I was in years ago once gave us some pringles to carry between those pinched fingers to see how many of us came back with whole ones.
  • sdavis484
    sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
    Yes, I'm terrible about beating. A yawn a lot, isn't that bc of lack of oxygen? Idk but thanks for the reminder!
  • TanyaHooton
    TanyaHooton Posts: 249 Member
    Where on your head are the headaches that you get? Are they at the base of your skull? Temples? Behind your eyes? There are diagrams on the internet that explain the likely causes of headaches. I also found this: https://headaches.org/resources/the-complete-headache-chart/.

    Fwiw, when I told my doctor that I got headaches at that time of the month, she took my words at face value and offered to put me on different birth control so that I didn't have to experience them. So it's worth getting a second opinion from a different doctor. Headaches are not normal, though some of us are more prone to them than others.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    Tired and headache-y is how I get when my calorie deficit is too high.
  • dangerousdumpling
    dangerousdumpling Posts: 1,109 Member
    I get headaches if my calories are too low. I eat more, while still at a deficit, and headaches go away.
  • Redordeadhead
    Redordeadhead Posts: 1,188 Member
    I do. I've read that exercise headaches are possible, especially when under hydrated or not warming up sufficiently. Unfortunately I always seem to get them when I run, regardless of my hydration, eating, warm up etc.
  • L010
    L010 Posts: 139 Member
    I have noticed that if I add zipfizz in my water and have it during workout, I don't get headaches. OR if I eat little milk/cereal before the workout I don't get headache.
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 1,003 Member
    For the headaches, there may be an explanation that is unrelated to food, potentially. Have to do a quick 'how the body works' bit, though. :-)

    So, most folks know what histamine is from learning about allergies (the reason why we take anti-histamine to help with allergic reactions, obviously). However, a lot of folks aren't aware that histamine is used for a LOT of other processes. So the body releases histamine all the time with no issue, but when the amount of histamine goes over a certain threshold, which is what happens with an allergic reaction, then a person starts to get allergy symptoms.

    Elevating the heart rate is one of these 'other processes' that histamine is used for. So, when people are startled, stressed, and also when they exercise, the body releases extra histamine to get the heart rate up.

    For anyone who has elevated histamine levels (some perfectly healthy people do, for various reasons), sometimes this means that getting startled, stressed, or exercising can increase histamine levels above that histamine 'reaction' threshold and set off symptoms. People who have had a serious allergic reaction, whose histamine levels are still very high for a few days, have even set off anaphylaxis again just by exercising during that period.

    But for milder histamine elevation issues, headaches, gut cramping, and/or flushing are really common symptoms that your histamine has gotten just a little too high. If someone has hay fever, this can be an issue seasonally. If someone has very low level environmental or food allergies (like, say, a mild reaction to dust mites or dairy or something), this can be a year round issue. Some folks seem to make less of the enzyme that breaks down histamine, so it builds up more, and they can have this issue as well. And some folks just seem to have this happen.

    IF this is the issue, anti-histamines can help some, if taken daily and on time (it just blocks histamine from attaching, but doesn't stop production, so you have to keep that 'block' on consistently or it doesn't help). But year round anti-histamines tend to cause weight gain so while it can be good for testing if this IS the problem, it's not a good long term solution. Trying mast cell stabilizing flavonoids can help some took and don't cause weight gain (they inhibit the cells that release the histamine). Quercetin is the most studied of this and there are actually sites that have lists of foods high in these, and also supplements available now.

    Obviously, no idea if this happens to be the cause of your headaches, because there's hundreds of reasons it could be, I'm sure. But if you are eating enough so the low blood sugar isn't the issue, this might be worth at least checking out, you know? Also, if histamine IS the problem, and you've never been diagnosed with an allergy, it might be worthwhile to check with an allergist just to see if you have some mild allergies that could be an underlying issue.

    Good luck!
  • sdavis484
    sdavis484 Posts: 160 Member
    I wish I could "like" this 100 times! This makes perfect sense. I deal with eczema and just am sensitive to a lot of things - hives, etc. I am hesitant to take anticholinergics like antihistamines though. I do sometimes but I try not to because they increase the risk of dementia.

    Thank you for sharing your knowledge with this thoughtful answer!

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