Satiety
katsheare
Posts: 1,025 Member
What methods have people used for determining what foods satiate? I get a little (okay, a LOT) jealous when I see people who know they just need to keep carbs down... or get a bit more fat.... or nail their protein..... or whatever to feel satisfied and full. My experience is so inconsistent as to make measuring (and isolating what does/does not work) a challenge to say the least.
I have tried low carb (for about 3 weeks, several years ago) and not only was it not liveable with my family, it didn't do the trick. Hitting protein doesn't seem to do anything particularly noticeable for me. Fats seem to make no difference. Some days I'm all the foodz hungry and some days I'm meh, not hungry at all; looking at my diary for those days (food and exercise both) nothing obvious pops out.
Strangely, the one thing that will sometimes make me feel not distractedly hungry is something warm to drink (it's not a hydration issue. I'm very well hydrated.) so I'll go through mugs and mugs and mugs of decaf tea and warm water. It doesn't satiate as such, but it's the closest thing I've found. (And only warm to drink. Cold doesn't do it at all. I can't drink hot
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So I'm just wondering what other users have done to pinpoint what works for them. Would be handy information to have in my back pocket.
I have tried low carb (for about 3 weeks, several years ago) and not only was it not liveable with my family, it didn't do the trick. Hitting protein doesn't seem to do anything particularly noticeable for me. Fats seem to make no difference. Some days I'm all the foodz hungry and some days I'm meh, not hungry at all; looking at my diary for those days (food and exercise both) nothing obvious pops out.
Strangely, the one thing that will sometimes make me feel not distractedly hungry is something warm to drink (it's not a hydration issue. I'm very well hydrated.) so I'll go through mugs and mugs and mugs of decaf tea and warm water. It doesn't satiate as such, but it's the closest thing I've found. (And only warm to drink. Cold doesn't do it at all. I can't drink hot
)So I'm just wondering what other users have done to pinpoint what works for them. Would be handy information to have in my back pocket.
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I spent a month or two paying close attention to how I felt after certain meals (when I started feeling hungry again, when I wasn't hungry for a really long time) and tied that to general trends in what I ate. It took a bit of attention (I wrote things down to keep it straight), but once it was done, it was done.
Now that I have a general idea of what works, if I have a day when I do feel a lot hungrier than normal and I don't know why, I'll see if I can figure out the trend.
Warm liquids also work to cube my appetite, but if you're having to rely on them a lot, I would first make sure your calorie goal is reasonable (you may have already considered this).
You've tried fat and you've tried protein. Some other things that work for people: volume eating, higher fiber, starchy foods (it flies in the face of "diet wisdom," but it's a real thing some people report), timed eating (delaying the first meal of the day).5 -
Meal timing makes a difference for me. I also get about 100g protein and about 35g fiber daily on my 1900-2300 calories. That seems to be the sweet spot.
Speaking of sweets, if I have something really sweet and especially if it's sweet and wheat - without it also having a good amount of protein/fat/fiber I will be hungrier. So I can have a protein, fruit and nuts smoothie, but not a Costco blueberry muffin - even though they have similar calories. The wheat/sugar combo seems to trigger me for some reason.
As always, YMMV.3 -
I have to use a lot of trial and error. And for me it changes every few months so it's just a matter of figuring it out each time. Typically it's high protein but not always. Sometimes there is no pattern, I just go with the flow, other times I just ignore the hunger (provided I am getting enough calories of course). I keep my deficit moderate, I also do higher calorie days (refeeds), diet breaks, and never stay too lean too long.
Some other things to consider:
Are you eating enough? How large is your deficit? Are you taking diet breaks?3 -
Experimentation. I'd set certain macro ratios for a week or two and keep an eye on cravings outside of meals.1
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I learned through intentional changes. There was a point last year when I was doing fairly well at staying within my calories but I wanted to work on improving my macros. I started by increasing my fat to hit that minimum. Once I felt like that was working for me, I started working on increasing protein and later fiber. Of course increasing one macro meant decreasing others. What I noticed is that increasing protein and fiber, and the subsequent decrease in fat, meant that I was hungrier than when I had been eating more fat.1
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cmriverside wrote: »Meal timing makes a difference for me. I also get about 100g protein and about 35g fiber daily on my 1900-2300 calories. That seems to be the sweet spot.
Speaking of sweets, if I have something really sweet and especially if it's sweet and wheat - without it also having a good amount of protein/fat/fiber I will be hungrier. So I can have a protein, fruit and nuts smoothie, but not a Costco blueberry muffin - even though they have similar calories. The wheat/sugar combo seems to trigger me for some reason.
As always, YMMV.
Yes, I found it helpful to think beyond just macros when focusing on satiety. I don't need to do low carbohydrate to feel satisfied, but snacking on just fruit doesn't fill me up at all. I can have a carby snack like popcorn and feel fine. If I eat just an apple, it makes me hungrier than I was before (fruit in the context of a full meal is just fine though).2 -
I've always known.0
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Fiber is the answer to everything lol But really, checking in with a nutritionist for your individual case is best. Take notes on your feelings of fullness *before* consulting with them so you can have a discussion based on recent experience. What works for me? Volumetrics, fiber and strategic use of fats/oils0
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I agree with everyone that experimentation is the way to go.
I also tend to find that things besides just macros are what matter for me. The main thing is meal timing -- once I get used to a set schedule I tend to be hungry (a little, not a crazy amount) at the time of my normal meals, and not usually between them. I like having a 3 meal schedule, and when I start snacking between my normal meals again (as I sometimes do during the December holidays) I find myself more likely to be hungry or thinking about food all day.
I also find that volume helps some (I like the look of a plate with a good bit of volume bulked up with vegetables), and because I only eat meals normally they all do have a mix of macros. I used to be convinced that protein made a big difference, but when I started experimenting I found that a lower protein breakfast (so long as it had some cals and volume and mine also always have some fiber) did not cause me to be hungry before lunch, and similarly a lower protein lunch doesn't seem to make that big a difference (lower in this case doesn't mean almost none, however). As it happens I normally do try to have both protein and vegetables in all meals, as I find it easier to hit my goals that way, but I find that macros aren't as significant as I used to think.
If I had something that was just white flour, like a bagel, I do think I would be hungry again quite soon, however, whatever the cals.0 -
What is your protein target on g/kg?0
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tinkerbellang83 wrote: »
For reals though...I've been eating my whole life and I know what my "stick to your ribs" foods are. Even when I was a kid I didn't really like eating breakfast cereal because I knew I would be hungry later at school and have a crappy morning until lunch time. My mom usually made me a serving of oatmeal and a fried egg, which I still eat a lot of the time for breakfast.1 -
For me it's a combination of low carb and high fat. Fat is satiating. I couldn't do low carb if I weren't doing high fat. I've been doing zero carb for long now and I'm usually never hungry. I'm so glad I found a way of eating that makes me feel this way because I hate being hungry. I have a past of binge eating disorder and I used feeling a wee bit peckish as an excuse to binge0
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Macros make a big difference for me but that's not all that matters. I don't eat foods that are easy to overeat by thousands of calories on a regular basis. I don't snack. I also don't eat until I'm physically hungry.
If I eat when I'm not really hungry I don't feel especially satisfied or satiated and there's always the feeling that I can eat more. If I allow myself to get hungry before eating it's very clear when I'm full, satisfied and done eating.
I also let my calories fluctuate. Instead of trying to keep them the same each day I eat to my appetite. Eating "fun" food on the days I wasn't hungry to reach my calorie goal and then trying to restrict my calories on hungry days by filling up on lean protein, low calorie vegetable and water/coffee was not sustainable for me.4 -
I haven't explored my own satiety 'rules' but I've noticed some peculiarities:
- when eating bread, my stomach is like a bottomless pit, I could just keep on eating (and it's proper bread from a bakery, whole grain etc)
- but 2 grilled cheese sandwiches (with the equivalent of 4 slices of bread, 2 slices of ham and 2 slices of cheese) really fill me up, sometimes I can't even finish them.
Something magical happens when I eat warm cheese?
Sometimes satiety really is a weird beast!3 -
... I keep my deficit moderate, I also do higher calorie days (refeeds), diet breaks, and never stay too lean too long...
Great comment. Wondering if you can say more about what "too lean for too long" means to you. I do notice I'm hungrier (less deficit tolerant) when I'm most lean.1 -
Left to my own devices, I'll snack all day long and never eat anything resembling a proper meal. I could literally never stop snacking. When I switched to eating actual meals, which I would define as larger portions of prepared food that include some significant amount of protein, I noticed a huge change. Instead of constantly grazing, I eat two or three times a day and feel satisfied. Some of this is probably mental, but I haven't had the urge to go back to snacking like I did before, so I'm calling it a win. When I feel like I've fallen off the wagon, I make sure I have a plan to get my "square meals" in for the next few days, and that helps me get back on track.2
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I upped protein recently and it's helped. High fiber and a lot of vegetables helps too, I'm a volume eater. Meals later in the day and closer together has been beneficial. I've been eating slower without distractions and that's helped a lot when feeling full. If I start thinking about what else I can eat when still eating I stop myself, focus on food, then flip through a few magazines to distract myself from the urge to eat until it passes.2
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Fat + protein + fiber, so that I'm getting each of the macronutrients at each meal. For example, full-fat Greek yogurt and blueberries for breakfast sticks with me a long time.
I think any time you'd abstaining from one of the macronutrients, your body is inevitably going to detect that something's missing and make you hungry.0 -
Like others have said, just through trial and error I found out what was satiating for me.
As far as changes in appetite, mine cycles with my monthly cycle as a female.0 -
... I keep my deficit moderate, I also do higher calorie days (refeeds), diet breaks, and never stay too lean too long...
Great comment. Wondering if you can say more about what "too lean for too long" means to you. I do notice I'm hungrier (less deficit tolerant) when I'm most lean.
Sure @ahoy_m8 I think it's definitely going to be different for everyone and perhaps to do with genetics, dieting history, etc. Some people are able to sit at leaner levels more comfortably, others aren't. Too lean for me would be not only light but lower in bodyfat%. I don't have accurate numbers but I would say somewhere around 18-22% is a sweet spot for me where I am able to be comfortable . If I do go lower, it's just for the purpose of getting lean to bulk up again (so not there long). Even when maintaining I will add on 5lbs here and take 5lbs off here depending on the weather, events, vacations, etc so I never really sit at really lean levels for long periods of time. That works best for me.1 -
I find that nutritional foods seem to satisfy the most. Green vegetables & beans are great. I also make sure I sit and enjoy my food my by chewing it longer than I would on my own. One of my issues in life is inhaling food. Lastly, I try to drink at least 24 oz of water with a meal.1
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For me it’s about eating unprocessed foods as much as possible. I don’t try to eat a certain ratio of protein/carbs/fat, and when I’ve tried to do that in the past I’ve just been hungry. I get lots of fiber because I’m vegan and eat lots of veg.
I thought this article was interesting and rang very true to my experience https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/feb/13/how-ultra-processed-food-took-over-your-shopping-basket-brazil-carlos-monteiro1 -
If I eat before about 11am I have a harder time controlling my hunger the rest of the day even when I eat the same things that normally give me excellent results.
If my deficit has been too steep for a few days because I have not properly accounted for activity I will struggle to control my hunger at night.
If I tell myself I can't have something I generally want it more.
There have been times I have gone a bit nuts after drinking alcohol.
Otherwise I am great on a moderate carb, high protein, high fiber system.
What I have learned through trial and error is that for me food is only part of the equation.5 -
Through trial and error, I've found that some foods satiate better than others. I'm partial to fruits and vegetables. But honestly, I'm a pretty hungry person, regardless if I'm in a surplus or deficit. So sometimes this is just my reality.
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Thank you all so much for the replies! There is plenty of food for thought in here (pun fully intended), and I've got some baby thoughts that I'll be exploring over the coming months. This really was the breadth of observation I was hoping for
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Despite your "closing message", I'm going to mention one other thing that might be worth checking, if you don't get results from the more obvious strategies above.
That would be: Spot check a couple of typical days for micronutrient adequacy. MFP's data won't be adequate for this (it doesn't track micros well), but it's possible to use the USDA database (or something similar) to do a more thorough deep-dive with a couple of days of food log. Persistent deficiencies can lead to cravings. (Magnesium is one I've seen mentioned.)
I wouldn't suggest supplementing generically (irrespective of knowing which nutrients seem low), but a spot check could be the basis for seeing whether the things that are low could be improved by reasonable eating changes, or are safe to supplement, or should lead you to ask your doctor to do a blood test before supplementing.
It's a low-probability thing, but may be a thing.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Meal timing makes a difference for me. I also get about 100g protein and about 35g fiber daily on my 1900-2300 calories. That seems to be the sweet spot.
Speaking of sweets, if I have something really sweet and especially if it's sweet and wheat - without it also having a good amount of protein/fat/fiber I will be hungrier. So I can have a protein, fruit and nuts smoothie, but not a Costco blueberry muffin - even though they have similar calories. The wheat/sugar combo seems to trigger me for some reason.
As always, YMMV.
Yes, I found it helpful to think beyond just macros when focusing on satiety. I don't need to do low carbohydrate to feel satisfied, but snacking on just fruit doesn't fill me up at all. I can have a carby snack like popcorn and feel fine. If I eat just an apple, it makes me hungrier than I was before (fruit in the context of a full meal is just fine though).
I thought I was the only person that happened to!
I'm still working through what satiates me. Protein helps, but carbs are actually a big help too. I can have a slice of bread and it will hold me for quite a while; a handful of almonds (which is higher calorie than the bread), and its' like dropping a cup of water into the ocean - 1 serving of almonds won't even being to satiate me.0 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Meal timing makes a difference for me. I also get about 100g protein and about 35g fiber daily on my 1900-2300 calories. That seems to be the sweet spot.
Speaking of sweets, if I have something really sweet and especially if it's sweet and wheat - without it also having a good amount of protein/fat/fiber I will be hungrier. So I can have a protein, fruit and nuts smoothie, but not a Costco blueberry muffin - even though they have similar calories. The wheat/sugar combo seems to trigger me for some reason.
As always, YMMV.
Yes, I found it helpful to think beyond just macros when focusing on satiety. I don't need to do low carbohydrate to feel satisfied, but snacking on just fruit doesn't fill me up at all. I can have a carby snack like popcorn and feel fine. If I eat just an apple, it makes me hungrier than I was before (fruit in the context of a full meal is just fine though).
I thought I was the only person that happened to!
I'm still working through what satiates me. Protein helps, but carbs are actually a big help too. I can have a slice of bread and it will hold me for quite a while; a handful of almonds (which is higher calorie than the bread), and its' like dropping a cup of water into the ocean - 1 serving of almonds won't even being to satiate me.
Ditto.0 -
The thing that struck me when I did 5:2 fasting and had to be creative with 600 cals on fasting days was that high taste food, visually appealing and with interesting textures satiated me far more than the maybe more mainstream thinking of this macro or that macro.
Intense flavours like lime, chilli, ginger, onion etc. made a tiny calorie allowance feel like a lot more. Sushi was a regular (but small) lunch on fasting days and the wasabi, soy and ginger really hit the spot. A lot of satiety for few calories.
In terms of normal eating then at a macro view starchy carbs tend to satisfy me a lot more than protein (especially meat) or fats on a calorie basis. Don't forget fibre for satiety - in various "top ten" lists high bulk foods feature a lot but all three macros are often evenly represented.3
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