Masks for running during covid19

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  • GiddyupTim
    GiddyupTim Posts: 2,819 Member
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    There is a simple, small study, just published, suggesting surgical masks are quite ineffective at blocking the virus.
    https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2764367/effectiveness-surgical-cotton-masks-blocking-sars-cov-2-controlled-comparison
    On the other hand, when someone is infected, coughing and sneezing propels many more viral particles than does quiet breathing through the nose. Shouting also sends more particles into the air and shouting may be more akin to running. In those cases, when someone might be spewing bigger numbers of germs, a mask might help.
    Also, when the CDC made its recent recommendation that people should wear masks in public, it was with the idea not that the mask was protecting the wearer, but that it might help protect others from the wearer, in case the wearer was infected and did not know it because they were asymptomatic.
    For what any of that is worth.
    I wouldn't wear one to exercise outside myself. The masks seriously interfere with breathing. The outside is pretty safe provided you maintain a good distance.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
    edited April 2020
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    swirlybee wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »

    What cities are mandating that they be worn just going out your front door? Just generally curious as I've heard of no mandates...and mandate would seem like big news to me. I've only heard it recommended to wear them when going out and doing your shopping and whatnot when you're obviously going to be in closer contact with others. Our governor isn't recommending to just wear them anywhere outside of the house, only if you're shopping or having to go to work, etc and continues to recommend that families get out on walks and whatnot, but to avoid doing so where you're likely to encounter large numbers of people. There has been no mention here of wearing a mask just being outside in general.
    San Diego.

    Los Angeles and Ventura counties just last week.

    And on the federal level:

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-dr-fauci-wants-you-to-know-about-face-masks-and-staying-home-as-virus-spreads

    "Americans should wear face masks as a way to help stifle the spread of COVID-19, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the nation’s top doctors leading the public health fight against the coronavirus pandemic — a departure from previous government guidance to only wear a mask if you were caring for someone with the illness or had it yourself.

    “If everybody does that, we’re each protecting each other,” Fauci said in an interview with PBS NewsHour anchor and managing editor Judy Woodruff. His comments came shortly before President Donald Trump’s coronavirus task force shared national recommendations for people to wear non-medical face masks. The task force did not recommend the use of surgical or medical grade face masks, which are in short supply for hospitals and front line health care workers."

    It is recommended just about everywhere to wear a mask when venturing out into the public where you're going to have closer contact with the public. These aren't "mandates" which would be enforceable by law. Most people I see going to the store and whatnot here are compliant with that recommendation...it's really not particularly applicable when just walking around my neighborhood though. Our governor has even clarified that unless it is a recreational situation in which it is difficult to socially distance...but also clarified that people shouldn't be putting themselves in that position anyway as there are plenty of outdoor opportunities that don't require being in crowds of people

    Again, a "mandate" is a legal order that can be punishable by arrest or fine or both. Nobody is doing that.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,365 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    swirlybee wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »

    What cities are mandating that they be worn just going out your front door? Just generally curious as I've heard of no mandates...and mandate would seem like big news to me. I've only heard it recommended to wear them when going out and doing your shopping and whatnot when you're obviously going to be in closer contact with others. Our governor isn't recommending to just wear them anywhere outside of the house, only if you're shopping or having to go to work, etc and continues to recommend that families get out on walks and whatnot, but to avoid doing so where you're likely to encounter large numbers of people. There has been no mention here of wearing a mask just being outside in general.
    San Diego.

    Los Angeles and Ventura counties just last week.

    And on the federal level:

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-dr-fauci-wants-you-to-know-about-face-masks-and-staying-home-as-virus-spreads

    "Americans should wear face masks as a way to help stifle the spread of COVID-19, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the nation’s top doctors leading the public health fight against the coronavirus pandemic — a departure from previous government guidance to only wear a mask if you were caring for someone with the illness or had it yourself.

    “If everybody does that, we’re each protecting each other,” Fauci said in an interview with PBS NewsHour anchor and managing editor Judy Woodruff. His comments came shortly before President Donald Trump’s coronavirus task force shared national recommendations for people to wear non-medical face masks. The task force did not recommend the use of surgical or medical grade face masks, which are in short supply for hospitals and front line health care workers."

    It is recommended just about everywhere to wear a mask when venturing out into the public where you're going to have closer contact with the public. These aren't "mandates" which would be enforceable by law. Most people I see going to the store and whatnot here are compliant with that recommendation...it's really not particularly applicable when just walking around my neighborhood though. Our governor has even clarified that.

    Again, a "mandate" is a legal order that can be punishable by arrest or fine or both. Nobody is doing that.

    not true - Laredo, TX is:

    https://time.com/5815641/laredo-face-mask-fine/
  • MelanieCN77
    MelanieCN77 Posts: 4,047 Member
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    I clarified in a previous comment that I chose the wrong word, but the recommendation exists and has all the potential to be escalated on a wide scale. I'm glad you're seeing compliance but that's just not true everywhere. I had a woman move TOWARDS me and brush by when I stopped to give her room. A guy in the post office last week laughed at the markers on the floor and then open mouth cough on the back of the neck of the guy he chose to crowd instead. I am running outside, and after the last recommendations have my mask ready around my neck. I give all the room I can when I can and if someone doesn't meet me halfway or makes it impossible I tell them so.
  • dudasd1973
    dudasd1973 Posts: 275 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    MaltedTea wrote: »
    If you're running, a mask isn't necessary.

    Some folks wear them for urban runs (like, if your running route has you alongside idling cars or high traffic for reason). Others, usu. athletes and biohacking fanatics, have masks that modify their oxygen intake.

    As others have mentioned, just go out 'n run 'n keep your distance from others. I've switched to evening/night runs (in lighted areas) as there's even fewer folks outside.

    Some cities are mandating them for being outdoors now. If people want to comply and be part of the solution, don't be telling them they're "not necessary." You've no idea how busy anyone's route is. Six feet distance was original six to eight and for normal breathing. Not a lot of sidewalks offer that kind of option, and every one encounter you fail at defeats the whole point.

    People who consider their understanding of the science to be superior and do what they think is best regardless of advice and community effort are the ones who are gonna make this thing drag on longer than it needs to.

    Hit the disagree button and enjoy your endless quarantine.

    What cities are mandating that they be worn just going out your front door? Just generally curious as I've heard of no mandates...and mandate would seem like big news to me. I've only heard it recommended to wear them when going out and doing your shopping and whatnot when you're obviously going to be in closer contact with others. Our governor isn't recommending to just wear them anywhere outside of the house, only if you're shopping or having to go to work, etc and continues to recommend that families get out on walks and whatnot, but to avoid doing so where you're likely to encounter large numbers of people. There has been no mention here of wearing a mask just being outside in general.

    Pennsylvania as a whole state has advised they should be worn when going outside. If the curve doesn't flattten soon, I can see it becoming a mandate.
  • nighthawk584
    nighthawk584 Posts: 1,992 Member
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    MaltedTea wrote: »
    If you're running, a mask isn't necessary.

    Some folks wear them for urban runs (like, if your running route has you alongside idling cars or high traffic for reason). Others, usu. athletes and biohacking fanatics, have masks that modify their oxygen intake.

    As others have mentioned, just go out 'n run 'n keep your distance from others. I've switched to evening/night runs (in lighted areas) as there's even fewer folks outside.

    Some cities are mandating them for being outdoors now. If people want to comply and be part of the solution, don't be telling them they're "not necessary." You've no idea how busy anyone's route is. Six feet distance was original six to eight and for normal breathing. Not a lot of sidewalks offer that kind of option, and every one encounter you fail at defeats the whole point.

    People who consider their understanding of the science to be superior and do what they think is best regardless of advice and community effort are the ones who are gonna make this thing drag on longer than it needs to.

    Hit the disagree button and enjoy your endless quarantine.

    The CDC just recommends a mask . There is no mandate that requires a person to wear one. Even NYC, the hardest hit isn't doing that.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Seems like the mask strong comments are from those officials seeing that way too many people aren't able to follow the other guidelines already in place.

    Don't touch face unless hands are clean.

    Don't be breathing in air and on things in close proximity to other people.

    Don't be touching things with dirty hands.

    If high risk group stay away from everything - let others do it for you.

    Merely watching people going into and through grocery store shows me there are still those coughing into their hands, into air, touch face after touching surfaces.

    And older friends clearly in high-risk group were originally commenting about still going out for things to high-risk areas.

    Same way some areas have done curfews because even with requirement for no social gatherings people weren't getting it.

    Extreme suggestions/orders are given when people can't follow the simple ones. Just improves the odds of those able to follow directions.

    And no way could I or would I run with mask, my fogged glasses would create a totally different but real health hazard - but I would totally be able to avoid anyone else while running - either breathing into air someone may walk into, or running into air someone else has been breathing into. Routes aren't hard here to avoid everyone, or the right time in combo.
  • corinasue1143
    corinasue1143 Posts: 7,467 Member
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    They’re both towns, not big cities. It’s early, so we don’t know how strictly it will be enforced. But the pendulum is definitely swinging that direction.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
    edited April 2020
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    dudasd1973 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    MaltedTea wrote: »
    If you're running, a mask isn't necessary.

    Some folks wear them for urban runs (like, if your running route has you alongside idling cars or high traffic for reason). Others, usu. athletes and biohacking fanatics, have masks that modify their oxygen intake.

    As others have mentioned, just go out 'n run 'n keep your distance from others. I've switched to evening/night runs (in lighted areas) as there's even fewer folks outside.

    Some cities are mandating them for being outdoors now. If people want to comply and be part of the solution, don't be telling them they're "not necessary." You've no idea how busy anyone's route is. Six feet distance was original six to eight and for normal breathing. Not a lot of sidewalks offer that kind of option, and every one encounter you fail at defeats the whole point.

    People who consider their understanding of the science to be superior and do what they think is best regardless of advice and community effort are the ones who are gonna make this thing drag on longer than it needs to.

    Hit the disagree button and enjoy your endless quarantine.

    What cities are mandating that they be worn just going out your front door? Just generally curious as I've heard of no mandates...and mandate would seem like big news to me. I've only heard it recommended to wear them when going out and doing your shopping and whatnot when you're obviously going to be in closer contact with others. Our governor isn't recommending to just wear them anywhere outside of the house, only if you're shopping or having to go to work, etc and continues to recommend that families get out on walks and whatnot, but to avoid doing so where you're likely to encounter large numbers of people. There has been no mention here of wearing a mask just being outside in general.

    Pennsylvania as a whole state has advised they should be worn when going outside. If the curve doesn't flattten soon, I can see it becoming a mandate.

    Just for being outside? That sounds nonsensical. What is a mask going to provide just being outside in my neighborhood with nobody around...nothing. I can see it with the stores and whatnot, but just being outside in general seems like a knee jerk, nonsensical application with pretty much zero net benefit. Glad that isn't my government.

    I can see it ultimately being mandated to wear one if you're going to be in a store or otherwise in an area that could be harder to socially distant...but outside walking the neighborhood or sitting on my patio seems over the top ridiculous. Maybe people are misinterpreting what is being said...our state also recommends wearing a mask or other face cover when going out...but they don't mean just going outside...they mean being out and about shopping, running errands, etc. Our governor has clarified that several times.

    Ironically...or actually probably not, I went to Costco yesterday afternoon and I'd say probably 70% were wearing a mask or other face cover...almost everyone I saw was also touching their face constantly to adjust the mask or face covering.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
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    59z6q7j5m5h2.png
    y5sfbd2zwe2y.png

    They’re both towns, not big cities. It’s early, so we don’t know how strictly it will be enforced. But the pendulum is definitely swinging that direction.

    I think "when out in public" needs context and further clarification as our governor has done.
  • MelanieCN77
    MelanieCN77 Posts: 4,047 Member
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    Lots of places are struggling to get their messaging coherent and pushed out clearly all at once. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of infrastructure was just not prepared, but we all have brains and can muddle along sensibly together. They can't say things like "wear a mask outside unless you think you don't need it" - they've trusted "common sense" so far and we're still a way from getting a handle on spread. We've gone from "wash your hands" to "keep 6 feet" to "safer at home" to "wear a mask" and it's not hard to see why. Every armchair epidemiologist who questions the measures feeds into the remaining reluctance to believe how serious the matter is, and makes them think they'll be seen as alarmist or stupid somehow for observing social distancing properly. I prefer the idea of a couple of weeks of face coverings and other recommended behaviours over needing permission from the state to leave my house at all, which is not a crazy conspiracy level theory at this point.
  • Duck_Puddle
    Duck_Puddle Posts: 3,224 Member
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    For a lot of us who live in more urban areas that are already at or beyond hospital capacity, there is strong messaging to wear a face covering when outside - very especially (but not only) in areas where social distancing is difficult. In more urban areas or places with limited safe spaces for walking/running/biking, it is not always easy to maintain a safe distance everywhere except inside a store.

    The face covering is not to protect the person wearing it.

    The face covering is to help the thousands of asymptomatic people from breathing virus all over other people and things.

    It is also clear in the messaging that the face covering is NOT to be a medical grade mask - but some sort of cloth something (including a winter scarf, your dog’s bandana or a torn up t shirt).

    When there is no more hospital space, or equipment, or PPE for medical staff to safely test and treat affected people, “over the top” measures to attempt to limit infection (even in a small degree) aren’t as wildly out of place as they may seem in places with fewer of those situations.

    Circumstances are not the same everywhere. We are subject to fines If we leave the house for non-critical reasons. Some places don’t have any sort of stay home recommendation.

    There’s great variation in what is “normal” appropriate and recommended based on your location (how urban, the amount of resources available, how prevalent the virus is in the community, etc.).

    I cannot imagine wearing a mask to run outside. But I have given up on having a safe distance outside so I don’t have to try and figure it out anymore.
  • huntersvonnegut
    huntersvonnegut Posts: 1,176 Member
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    I’m lucky enough that my route is fairly isolated and it’s easy to maintain a buffer of more than 10 ft from the few people I do encounter so I don’t wear a mask on my run. I have stated wearing one on my once a week food shopping trips.
  • Viking_Dad
    Viking_Dad Posts: 185 Member
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    OP...and anyone else coming in here to get a recommendation on a mask to wear while running...if wearing a mask is a necessity to you then a good option is a gaiter. You can wear it around your neck and then pull it up over your mouth and nose if you pass individuals, then pull it back down once you are a safe distance away. Buff is great brand as they make gaiters tailored directly for runners and outdoor activities.

    Exactly what I do; I pull it up high and fold it down to double thickness over my mouth and nose.
  • _nikkiwolf_
    _nikkiwolf_ Posts: 1,380 Member
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    OP...and anyone else coming in here to get a recommendation on a mask to wear while running...if wearing a mask is a necessity to you then a good option is a gaiter. You can wear it around your neck and then pull it up over your mouth and nose if you pass individuals, then pull it back down once you are a safe distance away. Buff is great brand as they make gaiters tailored directly for runners and outdoor activities.

    Exactly what I do; I pull it up high and fold it down to double thickness over my mouth and nose.
    I think the double thickness is essential when you are close to other people, while grocery shopping and such. Stretchy knit fabrics have so many holes, if you wear them as a single layer they don't do much.
    Fun test: stand in front of a mirror and breath on it without a mask / with just a single layer of Buff or similar, and with e.g. a self-made mask of two or three layers of non-stretch cotton. And then watch how much the mirror fogs up.
    Disclaimer: I have no idea how that scientifically relates to the amount of potentially contagious water droplets you spread around. But when the mirror fogs up less, that's probably because less moisture from your breath is reaching it.

    That being said, for running I would go with the gaiter option. Breathing through a mask is hard! At the moment I chose uncrowded routes for running, and manage to keep my distance from everyone, so in my situation I would feel it's enough. I'm still going to get out the sewing machine and make some thicker clothes masks before the next grocery shopping trip.
  • tinkerbellang83
    tinkerbellang83 Posts: 9,130 Member
    edited April 2020
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    A folded over buff (the type used by motorcyclists and hikers) might be comfortable for running in depending on climate, I used to use one in cold weather as cold air agitates my breathing still after being a child asthmatic and also during sandstorms when I worked overseas. It's not going to give you the level of protection a surgical mask will but anything is better than nothing if you're coming across others on your route.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,055 Member
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    Not endorsing this, as I have no relevant expertise. Just sharing it as a potentially relevant view related to discussion in this thread.

    https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in-times-of-covid-19-you-can-not-walk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08