Weight watchers vs calorie counting?

Breakingupwithfatty · April 2020

I have been doing calorie counting for a long time, but since moving overseas 2 years ago i have been going crazy with food.
I am considering weight watchers.
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Question i have, for those who have tried both ww and calorie counting. What worked better?
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Was ww worth the money?
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Do you think i can do it while overseas? No barcodes will scan.
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Was there hidden fees and random charges?

Unicorn_Bacon · April 2020

Never tried ww, but I'm wondering this..

If you're going crazy with food... and Weight watchers new program now counts meats and other things as 0 points, saying that people wont over eat on these things for it to impact their weight loss, etc, how is having a huge list of 0 point foods going to be helpful?

Meat has calories too.. lean or not.. at least with calorie counting and including it, you can see the effects of the amount you eat instead of just ignoring it because its 0

Breakingupwithfatty · April 2020

Good point.

harper16 · April 2020

I don't like the fact that WW is constantly changing their program.
Nothing changes with counting calories. Weight loss is all about having a calorie deficit.

Unicorn_Bacon · April 2020

Weight watchers has had weight loss success for people..

But in a points based system where so many things are free, I cant imagine its helping people learn anything

If a small piece of chicken and a big piece of chicken are the same.. when calorie wise they arent, how will you know if your other food choices that day arent causing your decision to choose the big chicken, to have you go over your calories, especially if you're on the smaller side of weight loss and the deficit is very small to begin with

Unicorn_Bacon · April 2020

Personally I would rather learn that choosing the big piece of chicken has the effect of taking away from my required deficit and be free to make that choice knowingly

Avidkeo · April 2020

I've done both. WW when it was just points, then when it was Pro Points (I hated that). And I've done MFP.

WW I managed to stick to for about 3 months at a time. I've been doing MFP for a couple of years. It's just easier I guess.

I learned so much more about my food from MFP. Example there is a slice I like to get at work. I've always estimated it at around 280 calories. I recently found out that slice is actually 440 calories! I found the same slice in the supermarket, was able to get its nutritional value, and took scales to work the next time I was on an evening shift and weighed the slice.

So I still have that slice, but no where near as often. Or I will cut it in half and have just half.

I would never have learned that using WW. There is no way to say this is x points because its this many calories. Knowledge is power. And WW doesn't give you knowledge. It's designed to keep you going back. They are a business, designed to make money. They don't make money if you actually lose the weight

saynow111 · April 2020

Any one all work well
If done right
Eat in moderation

kew1952 · April 2020

I did ww a number of years ago, before they made all the changes. At that time, I liked the fact that I didn't have to count calories, but rather, tracked points. I was able to lose all my weight, even got to maintenance, but then, I gained much of it back. I think for me, I was so focused on points that I didn't make a life style change. I have found that counting calories works best for me. I have a true sense of what I am eating and how it will overall impact me. Good luck!

ChickenKillerPuppy · April 2020

I was on WW for many years and had success with it when I stuck to it. However, the thing about WW is the points system is a (intentionally) rigged formula to reward lean proteins and disproportionately punish carbs and sugars. Something I hated about it was that a piece of bread or a sweet would be really points heavy even if I knew it didn’t have many calories. WW can be great for steering you towards “good” healthy food choices, but it doesn’t really teach you (as others have said) about how much you are consuming, creating a deficit, and certainly not about how many calories you need to eat to maintain your weight.

Add on top of that the fact that they have made so many free foods that it is very easy to consume way more calories than you think you are, and the fact that as a business they have to change the program every year or two.

I’ve gotten to goal using MFP and it has educated me about what I need to do to maintain (or so I am learning - it has only been a few months!). But at the end of the day, I think MFP is just a better way to really learn about creating a deficit (or maintaining) and how that works in your life.

PAV8888 · April 2020

You know, I never thought of it like this before:

What is WW is doing by providing a list of "free foods" and a more limited number of "discretionary calories" given out as points? They are promoting the "WWWOE" (Weight Watcher's Way Of Eating).

Just like the British WW equivalent (whatever their name is, the ones with the SYNs) are promoting their own way of eating. Or like Jenny Craig, or Ornish, or South Beach, or Dukan, or Atkins... etc.

So just because WW has points and presents themselves as a "counting" program, I don't see that there exists an exact correspondence to Calorie counting other than in our own minds.

All that is being counted with WW are the items that are not part of their core foods--in other words you're ultimately reduced to eating (a fairly wide ranging and relatively healthy mix of) free foods and you're only counting your sins--and that's spelled as I intended!

But just as with any diet (way of eating), you can still over-eat, or under-eat, if you ignore the calories you're consuming either deliberately or accidentally.

The beauty (and pain) of calorie counting is that it falls on us 100%, as individuals, to review our logs and evaluate the food choices we make in terms of their caloric cost, satiety, satisfaction, and nutritional value in the context of our overall diet.

And to make adjustments as time goes on.

Unicorn_Bacon · April 2020

Maybe my appetite is different then other peoples... but I could easily eat these 4 chicken breasts i just cooked.

At 271 calories each, that's 1084 calories in chicken, which is considered a free food. And I would still probably eat the rest of my dinner too.. potato, broccoli, yellow beans... and while those veggies dont contribute much in regards to calories, it does bump up the calories to 1141. And the potato is another 198 calories.
Assuming I could eat 250g of potato without being punished on their system for it by it taking up all my points. And that's if I ate it without margarine.. 4 tsp of margarine is 140 calories

And thinking they were a free food? That would just give me the okay to eat all 4. I wouldnt even have to eat them all in one go either, I could just decide to have them sporadically through the day as a snack of protein.

That leaves me 519 for the other meals I would of eaten, and what if I decided to eat a bowl of turkey soup I made? I mean.. according to weight watchers the turkey and the veggies besides the potato in it would be 0 points.

But the bowl in actuality is 535 calories

So now I have -16 calories left.. and I haven't even eaten breakfast yet

I could of chose to eat anything from that list of free foods on weight watchers..

Oh. Eggs is a free food. fruit is also a free food, plain yogurt is also a free food. Sounds like a pretty decent breakfast.

Without really digging, can I guess that 2 large eggs is about 160 calories, since greek yogurt counts, I'm thinking one of those individual cups are 80 to 100 calories? And depending on the fruit and how much of it.. could be close to 60 to 100 calories. So roughly 300 to 360 calories for breakfast?

In any case A couple of eggs, a bunch of fruit and a yogurt cup definitely isnt -16 calories .

Definitely over eating at this point.

Breakfast: 0 points (2 eggs, fruit, yogurt)

Snack: 0 points (sliced chicken breast)

Lunch: 95% 0 points, only counting potato (turkey soup)

Snack: 0 points (sliced chicken breast)

Supper: 80-90% 0 points, only counting potato and margarine (chicken breast, yellow beans, broccoli, potato with margarine)

Night snack: 0 points (sliced chicken breast)

This would be extremely doable for someone like me. Especially if I was someone with no real idea about calories, and would rather eat chicken over fruit..

In the end, my 500 calorie deficit is down to 180 on the low side and 124ish on the high side.

Giving me a 1260 to 868 deficit for the week.. and the 3500 calories I need to lose a pound is gone... and the 1750 for half a pound per week is gone... so I'm now down to losing half a half a pound

Maybe I'm not normal tho? Lol

Maxxitt · April 2020

Weight Watchers uses a completely different lens regarding food which may be useful if a person is in a rut. It currently has three different systems. On the one end is a plan with a ton of "zero" point foods, which correspond to the list presented above. At the other end is a fairly narrow list of "zero" point foods. Daily "points" are allotted inversely - the more "zero" food you have in your plan, the fewer "points." The plan is slanted toward fresh/frozen meats, vegetables, fish, fruit, legumes, whole grains, in that these have fewer or no points depending on what plan you choose. However, it does not always make total sense. A "cup" or 170 g of plan nonfat yogurt is 0 points, and 8 fluid oz of plain nonfat milk kefir is 3 points. Both have about the same number of calories. That's how they roll.

It's possible to overeat, as Kriss above points out, but there is a lot of encouragement to eat reasonable portions. In the end, it all comes down to calories eaten and calories expended. I found WW helpful 6 years ago to drop the first 25 of my 50#. It's been helpful in the last 10 weeks to help me lose about 6# after I was "stuck" for a period of time, but I am not planning to renew once this month is up because I managed to shake up a routine or two in a helpful way.

Hope this has been helpful.

earlandrew48 · April 2020

I don't believe in programs (like WW) myself. I know it's been said million times, but it's all about calories in vs calories out. That is the just of it...right? I was able to go from 241 to 199, just by using the fitness pal calorie counter, with the exercise cardiovascular counter as well. It took a year to do.
I feel we already know what we need to do. It's a matter of having the will and dedicated attitude to suffer a little. For instance. I get that 10pm itch to go downstairs to get 2 oz of cheese and ancient grain toast. I know its another 400 calories before bed. Sometimes I have the will to say NO...sometimes not. That is what it is.
The problem now is, since Coronavirus, I've shot up to 212....13 pound gain. Weight loss with quarantine is difficult to impossible. Not moving around as much as before and nibbling to deal with the mental aspect of physical distancing. I've committed starting tomorrow, to re-find the will.
To end- stay with calorie counter. Commit yo your number...mine will be 1900 calories a day for a month.

AnnPT77 · April 2020

earlandrew48 wrote: »

I don't believe in programs (like WW) myself. I know it's been said million times, but it's all about calories in vs calories out. That is the just of it...right? I was able to go from 241 to 199, just by using the fitness pal calorie counter, with the exercise cardiovascular counter as well. It took a year to do.
I feel we already know what we need to do. It's a matter of having the will and dedicated attitude to suffer a little. For instance. I get that 10pm itch to go downstairs to get 2 oz of cheese and ancient grain toast. I know its another 400 calories before bed. Sometimes I have the will to say NO...sometimes not. That is what it is.
The problem now is, since Coronavirus, I've shot up to 212....13 pound gain. Weight loss with quarantine is difficult to impossible. Not moving around as much as before and nibbling to deal with the mental aspect of physical distancing. I've committed starting tomorrow, to re-find the will.
To end- stay with calorie counter. Commit yo your number...mine will be 1900 calories a day for a month.

I get that some people have much more difficulty than others, when it comes to appetite and cravings, and how those line up with what is for them a sensible calorie goal. There are also some for whom the imagery of conquering themselves or circumstances can be very motivating. That's great, sincerely.

Nonetheless, speaking only for myself: If anyone and everyone needed "the will and dedicated attitude to suffer a little", I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be heading into year 5 of maintaining weight loss, at BMI 21.5 (as of this morning), after 3+ decades of class 1 obesity before that.

I'm good at gaming my strengths and weaknesses (should be, at my age

), but I stink at will and dedication, not to mention suffering (ugh). Really dislike drama, too, not that that's super relevant here.

OP, back on topic: Several of my friends have been very successful with Weight Watchers, a couple of them maintaining a substantial weight loss long-term (multi year). For me, it wouldn't work well. I've been a vegetarian for 45+ years, and got fat then obese eating plenty (too much!) of things that WW mostly now considers zero-point foods, in the plan that offers the most of those (per above). I also tend, by personality, to rebel against what I see as arbitrary rules. I can see how the WW system might be a help for people who are better with rules, and who may need just that little nudge to eat more veggies and such.

Overall, picking an approach to weight loss that fits well with our individual personality . . . that's a pretty big deal, IMO. Calorie counting is a good adjunct alongside quite a few of them, potentially including WW.

Best wishes!

Maxxitt · April 2020

AnnPT77 wrote: »

earlandrew48 wrote: »

I don't believe in programs (like WW) myself. I know it's been said million times, but it's all about calories in vs calories out. That is the just of it...right? I was able to go from 241 to 199, just by using the fitness pal calorie counter, with the exercise cardiovascular counter as well. It took a year to do.
I feel we already know what we need to do. It's a matter of having the will and dedicated attitude to suffer a little. For instance. I get that 10pm itch to go downstairs to get 2 oz of cheese and ancient grain toast. I know its another 400 calories before bed. Sometimes I have the will to say NO...sometimes not. That is what it is.
The problem now is, since Coronavirus, I've shot up to 212....13 pound gain. Weight loss with quarantine is difficult to impossible. Not moving around as much as before and nibbling to deal with the mental aspect of physical distancing. I've committed starting tomorrow, to re-find the will.
To end- stay with calorie counter. Commit yo your number...mine will be 1900 calories a day for a month.

I get that some people have much more difficulty than others, when it comes to appetite and cravings, and how those line up with what is for them a sensible calorie goal. There are also some for whom the imagery of conquering themselves or circumstances can be very motivating. That's great, sincerely.

Nonetheless, speaking only for myself: If anyone and everyone needed "the will and dedicated attitude to suffer a little", I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be heading into year 5 of maintaining weight loss, at BMI 21.5 (as of this morning), after 3+ decades of class 1 obesity before that.

I'm good at gaming my strengths and weaknesses (should be, at my age ), but I stink at will and dedication, not to mention suffering (ugh). Really dislike drama, too, not that that's super relevant here.

OP, back on topic: Several of my friends have been very successful with Weight Watchers, a couple of them maintaining a substantial weight loss long-term (multi year). For me, it wouldn't work well. I've been a vegetarian for 45+ years, and got fat then obese eating plenty (too much!) of things that WW mostly now considers zero-point foods, in the plan that offers the most of those (per above). I also tend, by personality, to rebel against what I see as arbitrary rules. I can see how the WW system might be a help for people who are better with rules, and who may need just that little nudge to eat more veggies and such.

Overall, picking an approach to weight loss that fits well with our individual personality . . . that's a pretty big deal, IMO. Calorie counting is a good adjunct alongside quite a few of them, potentially including WW.

Best wishes!

So what I found helpful this go round with WW was not "rules." All the "zero point" foods are what I usually eat, and not to excess. Where the 8# added came from was my sourdough baking spree .... seeing the actual calories wasn't helping me curtail, but seeing the points did. As I said, WW has a different lens. All the calorie rules apply in the final analysis regardless of how you choose to eat.

New_Heavens_Earth · April 2020

KrissCanDoThis wrote: »

Never tried ww, but I'm wondering this..

If you're going crazy with food... and Weight watchers new program now counts meats and other things as 0 points, saying that people wont over eat on these things for it to impact their weight loss, etc, how is having a huge list of 0 point foods going to be helpful?

Meat has calories too.. lean or not.. at least with calorie counting and including it, you can see the effects of the amount you eat instead of just ignoring it because its 0

This right here! I gained trying WW zero point nonsense. An I stayed in my points.

Yes it steers you to eating better quality foods. But zero still has calories. I've eaten 500 calories worth of fruit and made 600 calorie zero point meals. Just an extra 100 calories per day is a 10 lb per year gain. That's an extra large apple or banana. But when you're taught zero is good, portion control is rarely discussed, neither are hunger and satiety signals, it can be a problem.

scarlett_k · April 2020

Weight watchers is a business that relies on repeat custom. Their diets (and others like them) are designed to "work" just enough to convince people but ensure that they fall back to bad eating habits in the longer term, and return to them because it "worked" for them before.

maxiem7 · April 2020

I lost over 200 lbs on the last WW program. I got to goal but I found there was nothing for me at maintenance. WW is there to help lose weight that is their business. Over several years I gained 70 of it back. I had to really think about doing WW again and decided I was hungry most of the time so I decided to Myfitnesspal And have lost 66 lbs and saved money in the process. Oh and by the way I feel less deprived doing MFP.

relativehunter · April 2020

I've done both, too. I found online no more helpful than doing this. And the meetings felt like a big ad for WW products and the meetings started to feel repetitious. I've even had leaders that touted false claims about nutrition. That finally got me and I've never gone back. I've never been very successful at weight loss, WW or not. Best for me is to record everything and get in more exercise.

Mandy72CM · April 2020

I’d say going to a group helped with the weigh ins. However I found the diet plan restrictive and I don’t like the group chat so I left after being weighed. WW food is also less points than other foods of the same calorie value so you pay more to eat WW products for less points. Good marketing! But why pay more? You can eat anything you want within your calorie range in MFP and it’s free. I much prefer this but you need to be focused.

sandymi1209 · April 2020

Hi all, I am new here. I just joined and found this group. I was doing WW also. I did have success for about a year. I took of 37 lbs, but then I got stuck and struggled to get back into it but haven't been able to. So I have decided to try MFP and get my weight back off that I have gained the past 6 months.

ParisPrincesse · May 2020

WW has changed their program so now you choose the one that is best for you. It is no longer everything is free unless you choose that plan. I have gone back to the green plan which I love because now I count everything but veggies and fruit. Just give it a try and see what you think. ❤️

Blessingsbe533 · May 2020

Personally I prefer the nutrient breakdowns in my fitness pal. Like someone else said, I rebel when something is arbitrarily assigned a lot more points than it’s calorie breakdown. However, weight watchers has helped me lose weight. I struggle in this time of isolation with stress eating. So, I’m trying not to be critical toward my progress as these are unusual times. I am completing daily exercise efforts, which help my attitude.

Danp · May 2020

Weight management is very simple (but not always easy) thing. It's an energy balance. Supply more energy (calories) than you use, your body will store that excess energy as fat. Supply less energy than you use, your body will begin to burn those excess energy stores.

MFP makes this transparent, clear and straight forward. It calculates your targets, lets you log your energy intake and expenditure and does the math for you. It's free and using the app will educate you about nutrition and teach you how to manage your food directly. You're dealing with and calculating using a real life, universal numbers as a measurement.

WW takes the same energy in/energy out equation. Puts a gimmicky wrapper around it to hide how it all works and sells that gimmick. Because it hides and obfuscates whats actually happening in the background you can't learn how to do it alone and therefore become reliant on their system. The entire thing is designed to give you a temporary fix that works while you're paying them. As soon as you stop, you're back to square one because you haven't learned anything except their system. You regain the weight and think 'Oh WW helped me lose weight last time I'll do that again' and spend more money.

WW is designed to keep you on the hook with a lose-gain cycle. They're in it for the money. Selling people a 'plan' makes money through repeat business. Teaching people how to do it them selves doesn't. I've watched friends and family members yo-yo on WW for over 40 years. I asked some of them why they keep going back and they all said the same thing 'Oh it works. I lose weight when I'm on WW'. If it really worked, they wouldn't have had to keep going back periodically for four decades.

jaymijones · May 2020

WW completely overhauls their program approximately every 4 years and tweaks it a few times in between overhauls. The current program has been around for awhile. I suspect a shiny new program will be forthcoming soon.

It’s one of the reasons I stopped using it. I found a version I liked that worked for me, then it was scrapped and the new program didn’t work as well. I couldn’t access the online tools from the version that had worked once the new program was instituted. I was using it to help with post pregnancy weighloss, so I left and came back with years in between three times. I had the proverbial rug yanked out from under me twice before I stopped trying and switched to a free calorie counting app.

If they ever relaunched the online tools from the program version I liked at a discount I might be persuaded to return. But probably not.

VegasFit · May 2020

I've done both. I've had success with both. I spend time on both MFP and WW. I'm currently tracking with WW right now. Counting calories makes me a little obsessive and points do not. There are three different plans. The plan I'm on most clean, I'll call them, foods are free. This is working for me. I don't go to meetings, never have. Years ago I did Winning Points. Honestly WW may revamp their plans to attract new members but in my opinion the basics are still there even if they change the name or the point system.

swimmchick87 · May 2020

For years I would go on MFP, stick with it for a month- 6 weeks and lose ten pounds, then fall off the wagon and regain that weight plus more. Several years ago I decided to do WW- this was the old points plus system. It finally worked for me and I got down to a weight I was much happier with. A few months in I figured out that points plus was basically calorie counting (the only time I found that 40 cals did not equal 1 point was for alcohol). I figured I was just magically "finally ready" and that's what did it for me. Then I started really struggling with WW as well. I decided to stop doing it and try to maintain my weight- still about 5-10 pounds above a healthy BMI, but it was a lot better than where I was before. I did for awhile, then the weight started creeping back up and then piled on during a super stressful time.

It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure this out. I was able to stick with WW for so long because when I was heavier, I got a lot more points. I didn't feel deprived and I was able to fit anything within reason to my day. MFP always gave me 1200 calories. When I started "falling off the wagon," WW was down to giving me the lowest possible points, which wasn't a lot of calories considering I also wasn't good about getting my 5 "free" servings of fruit and veggies per day. Eating a tiny amount of calories per day just does not work for me.

This time around, I've had way more success with setting my MFP goal to only lose 1 pound per week, so I get more calories- currently 1550 per day as long as I maintain a decent activity level. And I figure if that becomes too difficult as I get smaller (I'm 4 months in and so far, so good), I'll change it to .5 pounds per week. It's better to go slowly and actually be successful!

I don't even know the ins and outs of the "new program" in WW but if it's anything like smart points that would have never worked for me. I need to eat treats and foods I actually enjoy as part of my calorie day. I get that WW is trying to steer you towards eating super healthy, but IMO for people with significant weight struggles that may not be the most realistic goal. My coworker was doing the SP program and she would tell me things like a fun sized candy bar was 1/3 of her points for the day because it's a "bad" food. That's absurd, and someone who eats like I do would end up with a super unhealthy amount of calories per day if I tried to stick to the "points." I'd also be way more likely to say, "Well, I've already blown my points for today/this week so I may as well eat whatever I want and start fresh tomorrow/next week," which I'm sure we all know is a really dangerous cycle. Then if you try to build in the "free foods" it's just not precise at all. I'd rather know exactly what I'm eating and how it's going to impact me.

Monnietron · May 2020

I see a lot of comments from people who don't agree with Weight Watchers. I have been on WW for almost a year, and I am down 40 lbs. and 6 lbs. from goal. Calorie counting has never been sustainable for me, and WW has been amazing. I have recently started tracking calories as well, so I can use that for maintenance. I am 5'2 and my TDEE is 1675. I average 1200-1400 calories a day. I have averaged 0.8 lbs. a week loss.

I recommend WW to anyone. It has been a life saver for me.

VegDogMama · May 2020

I have been on weight watchers twice before. Both times it worked but the second time I was so hungry I had to quit. They wouldn't give me any more points.

I agree with some of the posts here that points don't translate into real life, and if you ever go off the program you're not going to be counting points anymore, so it's easier to slip back into old habits.

That said, if you want to try it, it works for a lot of people ... Do what works best for you.

eatyogarun · May 2020

I've had better luck with calorie counting. The last time I tried WW was after a lot of experience calorie counting. I had a day that according to WW was DOUBLE my point allowance but when I calculated the calories, it didn't even come to 1000. That's because I hadn't eaten the "right" foods. I decided then that I was done. (For the record, it wasn't a day of candy and pie. A vegetarian pot pie was a huge chunk of the points because it had a crust.

)

Weight watchers vs calorie counting?

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