Can someone check my understanding of the math behind calories and exercise?

RedDevilsBob
RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi all,

I'm actually an on again, off again user of myfitnesspal. I would say that there was a time I was pretty religious about logging my food intake, but the results were not good. I must've signed on and quit about 3-4 times in the last 6-7 years.

Maybe my understanding of weight loss math was all wrong, so can someone check me here?

So I'm male, 5'5", late 40s, and my lean body mass is 130lbs (hydro body fat test). My current weight is 160lbs. Using the calorie calc tool, I set my goal to lose 1-2lbs (if I recall correctly). My goal is to lean out the fat. I'm not looking to bulk up. Just lean out. I'm tired of my gut. Once upon a time I was at 148lbs, fairly lean/muscular, which was good for the sports I played (martial arts, tennis, soccer, half/full marathons). So I know it's possible.

According to the MFP calculator, the cal recommendation is 1,500 per day. Right now my regular activity is martial arts, which I do 5 times a week for the past 3 months. Estimated calories burned according to MFP for 55 mins is 660 cals, which seems awfully high if you ask me (Judo, Tae kwon do, karate is the name of the activity on MFP).

I started to log foods again since Sunday and I realized how little I was eating. In fact MFP said it wouldn't log my entry b/c it was under 1,000 cal.

So back to the math question: if my MFP recommended calories are 1,500 per day, but my work out calories are 660 per day, is this a bad thing? Does the 1,500 cals per day represent the # of calories that my body needs to function properly? So wouldn't a 660 cal activity put me under this 1,500? Should I be eating 1,500 + 660 = 2,160?

And is this the reason why I am not losing weight? This has been the most frustrating thing for me. I don't eat excessively on a daily basis. Sure I have my binge moments (like last week's In N Out trip), but trips like that are a 3-4 times a year thing for my wife and I.

Any help explaining the math and maybe the physiology behind the calories and exercise calorie deficit math would be greatly appreciated. Kaiser nutritionists have been utterly useless.









Replies

  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,933 Member
    Yes, weight loss is slow, especially when you have so little to lose. If you were to lose weight too quickly (thus eating too little) your body will get the energy it needs to just stay alive from muscles. Though you'd not look leaned out but flabby and your sport will suffer. Thus slow down! By a lot.
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    Thank you both for responding. I revised my settings and it still says 1,500. So 1,500 it is.

    Yirara: yes, your description is pretty spot on. I am flabby. I can feel my muscles underneath my flab, esp my gut. Though it pained me to see it, I set up my Gopro and worked without a shirt. I'm aghast. I would though dispute that I have so little to lose. For my height and weight (according to 3 BMI calculators), I'm on the high end of obese.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    MFP works out your weight maintenance calories (calculated BMR x activity multiplier).
    And that multiplier unlike TDEE sites doesn't include any allowance for intentional exercise.

    And then you choose a rate of weight loss. If you choose 1lb/week MFP takes 500cals/day off your weight maintenance number. That goal number is only for a day you do no intentional exercise - so the goal is xxxx plus exercise calories. It is incredibly short sighted not to take your exercise calories into account, your body will take them into account even if you don't!

    It's important to note that it's you choosing your rate of loss and not MFP giving you a goal.
    But it won't go below 1500 minimum for an adult male. I suspect you are choosing 2lbs a week loss - that's taking a massive 1000 calories off your maintenance number. Are you really sure you want to do that?
    To me that is not appropriate for someone with not much to lose (12lbs?).

    If your results don't match expectations over an extended period of time (weeks not days) then the first thing to review is your logging accuracy.
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    PAV8888: Yes, correct and I didn't write correctly: I'm overweight (on the high end), not on the high end of obese. Thank you for your detailed response. I appreciate the time you took to write all of this, including running the SBMI calc. I'm going to check that out. I definitely need to get better at nutrition, but I don't eat junk food, drink sodas, beers, smoke, etc. on a daily basis. An occasional soda w/ a cheat meal is a guilty bad day for me. I will be perusing the nutrition forum soon. Also I need to do start weight lifting again, but my martial arts class is very exhausting (lots of burpees, calisthetics, kicking/punching, etc.) and I'm at least feeling tightness in my muscles and less dense fatness around the waist.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,238 Member
    edited May 2020
    bobykim6 wrote: »
    PAV8888: Yes, correct and I didn't write correctly: I'm overweight (on the high end), not on the high end of obese. Thank you for your detailed response. I appreciate the time you took to write all of this, including running the SBMI calc. I'm going to check that out. I definitely need to get better at nutrition, but I don't eat junk food, drink sodas, beers, smoke, etc. on a daily basis. An occasional soda w/ a cheat meal is a guilty bad day for me. I will be perusing the nutrition forum soon. Also I need to do start weight lifting again, but my martial arts class is very exhausting (lots of burpees, calisthetics, kicking/punching, etc.) and I'm at least feeling tightness in my muscles and less dense fatness around the waist.

    Sorry, in case it wasn't clear, I was quoting the SBMI report for your height/weight etc... so no need to thank :smile:

    No, you are most certainly not at the high end of overweight (nor into obese)

    You're at the high end of normal weight for your age group and by WHO and BMI classification officially overweight. If you are of Asian ancestry there might be some argument about you being higher up in the overweight range.

    I note that by the old (in use in 1990) definition of BMI and recommended weight ranges, your recommended weight range would top at 162lbs, in 1990, so you would still be within it!

    Please note that your exercise sounds substantially more than most. I would not be surprised, at all, if you're clocking out more calories than you give yourself credit for. If you're not eating, after all that is said and done, AT A MINIMUM the equivalent of maintenance level Calories for a "slightly active" to "active person" of your height, weight and sex after you've done all the adjustments (and this equivalent includes a consideration for a -500 Ca deficit), then I would consider your figures to be failing a first level "sanity double check". Basically, from your description, I am expecting your actual maintenance to be at the equivalent caloric level of very active.

    I would lose the guilty pop and bad day aspect. It is a bit exhausting. And... you're in charge.

    So if you wanted it, and you evaluated that you could afford it in the context of your goals, then i would think that the guilt is entirely optional!

    All this is not intended to minimize your desire to improve. Nor to suggest that you shouldn't ramp up to making changes

    But it IS, I think, a needed perspective to encourage you to make longer term changes and choices as opposed to panic influenced less long term sustainable and more geared to the short term changes that just try to bring quick results for a problem that might be less advanced than you appear to be believe.

    Long terms structural changes to bring yourself in alignment with where you want to be in the future. Pressing for extra speed not necessary.... which I see you've already working on by reducing your rate of loss.
  • VeryKatie
    VeryKatie Posts: 5,961 Member
    edited May 2020
    Yes you should eat the mfp number plus the exercise calories. I agree that the number it is giving you is probably at least double what you are really burning. Thats pretty true for every exercise in the mfp database. I always find they are way over estimated.

    You could try 2000 ish daily and don't log your exercise at all. If you lose too fast, eat more. If you lose too little, eat less (change by 100 a day for a week). Since you are very consistent with exercise I think that just assuming you'll exercise and eat for it is appropriate. Even though you don't exercise 7 days a week it still balances out. This would be equivalent to setting mfp to "active" or "very active" and eating those calories and not logging exercise. And 0.5 to 1 lb loss a week TOPS.

    People use to post guidelines somewhere for appropriate rate of weight loss. I can't remember exactly what they are... but i believe that when one has 15? 20? Lbs to lose, an appropriate rate is 0.5 lbs a week. Is there anyone who can clarify this for me/op? I've been gone for a while having babies and just getting back into it now. My brain is failing me.
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    edited June 2020
    Hi team,
    Ok so I've logged 25 days so far since 5/5 and my experience (3rd attempt using MFP) has mirrored my last 2 attempts: my weight went up. I logged my weight on a separate spreadsheet and here's the results:

    5/05/2020 159.0
    5/11/2020 161.2
    5/15/2020 160.1
    5/15/2020 160.5
    5/20/2020 162.4
    5/21/2020 162.3
    5/22/2020 163.1
    5/24/2020 161.3
    5/25/2020 161.5
    5/27/2020 162.1
    5/28/2020 162.1
    5/29/2020 162.0
    5/30/2020 161.8
    5/31/2020 161.9
    6/02/2020 160.5
    6/06/2020 160.6
    6/08/2020 160.5
    6/11/2020 160.9

    I followed the calorie recommendations pretty closely and logged in my exercises. From 5/5 to 5/22 I started to see steady weight gain. By 5/23 I panicked and started to re-evaluate if 1500 cals is truly a good calorie goal. Also with my martial arts (live stream) class which is approximately 50 mins (of true exercise time), the calories burned was about 600 cals per session. I was eating like crazy to the point of feeling like sh#t just for the sake of meeting the calorie goals minus the calorie deficit from the exercise.

    So first thing I did was to scale back about 100-200 net calories/day and I've adjusted the time of the exercise to 30 minutes. As validated by some of you above, MFP overestimates calories burned so I'm scaling total minutes exercise back.

    I realize that some of this may be due to water consumed and weight of food eaten the night before, but what was readily apparent to me was that the calories consumed was way too much and the impact was immediate.

    Now on the positive side:

    - Due to increased exercise, my stamina and muscle tone is improving
    - The fat around my belly isn't has firm/solid as it used to be. It's more malleable. I don't know how else to describe it.
    - I feel better except for that period where my weight was increasing.
    - I can do 5 strict pull ups vs. 1 I could barely eek out 2 months ago :)

    Questions:
    - For anyone else whose experienced the same as me above, what did you do to fine tune your diet/meals?
    - Is there a way to allow MFP members to see my meals and critique them? Perhaps my carbs are too high?
    - My main concern is just to lose this layer of fat and just lean out.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,238 Member
    A quick look to the data above says that if you exclude the first 159, you've moved from an average 161 to 163 to an average 162 to 161. Overall small movement.

    It does sound to me that the 600+ work-out is a major component of your day. A lot is going into that calculation. And your food logging can be just as much or more off.

    Your last few weeks (May 22 on-ward) seem to be heading in the right direction.

    Less "solid" fat USUALLY means you're in a deficit. It goes that way for a long time and then disappears.

    --If you don't have a lot to lose I would continue the same way. This is what I would personally do.

    --If you have a lot to lose and genuinely feel as if you're currently overeating I would reduce relative intake by up to another 100-150 Cal. You do run the risk of under-fueling your exercise. The "less solid fat" is a good indication that you're in a deficit"
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    Swirlybee: I'm doing Krav Maga. Our online sessions are mainly punch/kick combos, but a lot of pushups, situps, burpees, etc. Some days are lighter where we do hand to hand simulation/scenarios, but those are pretty light. I've downward adjusted the time to 30 minutes, which shows 365 cals burned. I'm going to stick with 30 mins for now and see if I need to downwards adjust that. By the way, you look like you're in fantastic shape and god help the person who ever messes with you!
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    PAV8888: Yeah, I agree lbs-wise, it was a very small movement. However as mentioned as soon as I started MFP again and followed the calorie recommendations, my weight just jumped up a lot faster than I wanted. I am glad though that I started to adjust downwards because at this point I believe 1,500 is probably too high despite what MFP says. I'm committed to staying at this cal level and trimming the calories burned to 360 for now (as mentioned to swrilybee) and we'll see how it goes.
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    Heybales,

    Thanks for your reply. There were several things I read that intrigued me esp towards the end of your email and I think this was an epiphany of sorts. Would you mind mind reading my responses and questions to your reply to me?
    heybales wrote: »
    Weighing everything you eat? Because calories is per gram, not cups or spoons volume (except liquids).

    My response: For a few days, I did weigh what I ate. But admittedly it got really tiresome and somethings were really messy to weigh and then eat. Truly is this one of the keys to success?
    heybales wrote: »
    So the same math for fat loss is about the same for fat gain. You'd have to be eating 500 each and every day over true maintenance to gain 1 lb of fat in a week. And your results are showing 1.5 lb in a month.

    If you believe that is fat, then this would apply: 1.9 x 3500 / 36 days = 185 cal above maintenance. So that would imply you were inaccurate enough through 685 total calories (because you had 500 deficit right?).

    Yes, I believe you're right that I was probably above maintenance and the cals burned from my exercise was way overestimated. I'm going to use this month to refine my cals in and out.

    Also in your equation, what is the 1.9?
    heybales wrote: »
    How much are you standing around in that workout time? 660 cal/hr is a high hard workout for someone light.

    I've actually been filming my sessions w/ my GoPro (more to correct any technique issues), but after watching my workouts, I'd say that out of the 50-55 min online sessions, about 15 mins of it is standing around or very, very light activity/warm ups. I'd say 30 mins is moderately intensive and the last 10 is very intense. But the pace of the activity is not 15, 30 moderate, 10 intense. It's all mixed in together. I also do neck/strength training as I want to do more BJJ in the future for about 10-15 minutes as well as a solid 5-10 mins of pullups (one of my biggest weaknesses). [/quote]
    heybales wrote: »
    That type of intense workout though is going to be high glucose usage - just begging the body to store more in the muscles being used. That stores with water. If you were eating so little in doing it prior, body finally got a chance to have more carbs to store.

    Now I should've put this at the front of the email because this is what really intrigues me because I've seen similar things on Youtube, which contradicts alot of things I was brought up to believe and the 3 years of Crossfit /HIIT workouts I did between '13-'15. You wrote that intense workouts are going to burn glucose first, but then I don't understand the rest of the meaning of that sentence and the next one. So if I go full out during these classes, my body is burning glucose and not fat? And then storing water (or is it carbs as you said in the last sentence)? Is this why I'm not burning any body fat?
    heybales wrote: »
    Also - that weight change math is so minor - if you had several days of eating low sodium before 1st weigh-in, and were back to normal by 2nd weigh-in, easily see that much difference in water weight. By the last weigh-in, could have had an Asian meal night before with some higher sodium than average - so water weight.

    So I am Asian (ethnic Korean to be exact), but what we eat can be extremely varied throughout the week and not only Asian food. I'm going to open up my food diary once I figure that out and you can see that for lunch and dinner, its all over the map. My breakfasts are pretty standard: a protein bar w/ coffee and lots of water (I don't log my water). I rarely snack. As mentioned, lunch and dinner are all over the map but we lean towards Asian food. We try to eat lighter dinners unless we're really hungry and we have substantially cut down our white refined products and white rice consumption. I have a looong way to go to clean up my diet and I think this is definitely something that would help with my fat burn goal.


  • Caecile84
    Caecile84 Posts: 16 Member
    MFP overestimates exercise calories! So you might be eating back too many exercise calories. When I log a 1 hour run in MFP it says I burned 632 calories, whereas my Garmin watch (combined with a HR monitor) says I burned 560. For cycling it was even worse MFP 1396, Garmin 922. As soon as I started eating back my Garmin calories I started losing weight as expected.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited June 2020
    bobykim6 wrote: »
    Heybales,

    Thanks for your reply. There were several things I read that intrigued me esp towards the end of your email and I think this was an epiphany of sorts. Would you mind mind reading my responses and questions to your reply to me?
    heybales wrote: »
    Weighing everything you eat? Because calories is per gram, not cups or spoons volume (except liquids).

    My response: For a few days, I did weigh what I ate. But admittedly it got really tiresome and somethings were really messy to weigh and then eat. Truly is this one of the keys to success?
    heybales wrote: »
    So the same math for fat loss is about the same for fat gain. You'd have to be eating 500 each and every day over true maintenance to gain 1 lb of fat in a week. And your results are showing 1.5 lb in a month.

    If you believe that is fat, then this would apply: 1.9 x 3500 / 36 days = 185 cal above maintenance. So that would imply you were inaccurate enough through 685 total calories (because you had 500 deficit right?).

    Yes, I believe you're right that I was probably above maintenance and the cals burned from my exercise was way overestimated. I'm going to use this month to refine my cals in and out.

    Also in your equation, what is the 1.9?
    heybales wrote: »
    How much are you standing around in that workout time? 660 cal/hr is a high hard workout for someone light.

    I've actually been filming my sessions w/ my GoPro (more to correct any technique issues), but after watching my workouts, I'd say that out of the 50-55 min online sessions, about 15 mins of it is standing around or very, very light activity/warm ups. I'd say 30 mins is moderately intensive and the last 10 is very intense. But the pace of the activity is not 15, 30 moderate, 10 intense. It's all mixed in together. I also do neck/strength training as I want to do more BJJ in the future for about 10-15 minutes as well as a solid 5-10 mins of pullups (one of my biggest weaknesses).
    heybales wrote: »
    That type of intense workout though is going to be high glucose usage - just begging the body to store more in the muscles being used. That stores with water. If you were eating so little in doing it prior, body finally got a chance to have more carbs to store.

    Now I should've put this at the front of the email because this is what really intrigues me because I've seen similar things on Youtube, which contradicts alot of things I was brought up to believe and the 3 years of Crossfit /HIIT workouts I did between '13-'15. You wrote that intense workouts are going to burn glucose first, but then I don't understand the rest of the meaning of that sentence and the next one. So if I go full out during these classes, my body is burning glucose and not fat? And then storing water (or is it carbs as you said in the last sentence)? Is this why I'm not burning any body fat?
    heybales wrote: »
    Also - that weight change math is so minor - if you had several days of eating low sodium before 1st weigh-in, and were back to normal by 2nd weigh-in, easily see that much difference in water weight. By the last weigh-in, could have had an Asian meal night before with some higher sodium than average - so water weight.

    So I am Asian (ethnic Korean to be exact), but what we eat can be extremely varied throughout the week and not only Asian food. I'm going to open up my food diary once I figure that out and you can see that for lunch and dinner, its all over the map. My breakfasts are pretty standard: a protein bar w/ coffee and lots of water (I don't log my water). I rarely snack. As mentioned, lunch and dinner are all over the map but we lean towards Asian food. We try to eat lighter dinners unless we're really hungry and we have substantially cut down our white refined products and white rice consumption. I have a looong way to go to clean up my diet and I think this is definitely something that would help with my fat burn goal.

    Points in order.

    Food logging accuracy - Yes. Obviously a wide range between celery and peanut butter where it matters more than others - but perhaps some tips & tricks to make it easier. There is a sticky about it.

    What was the 1.9? - 160.9 minus 159.0.

    Workout time - some of the database entries are based on the very short intense actual usage doing the moves, not the slow practice, or intermittent, or the rests. Some do include the rests like Strength Training Weights.
    Sort of like pullups - you literally do pullup after pullup non-stop for 5-10 minutes? That's almost aerobic level of pullups. I'm not even sure I've seen the CrossFit games go that long at once with their version of "pullups".

    Diet - So you are likely in a higher sodium state all the time, so the potential water weight fluctuations from that are really minor. For someone that normally eats low sodium, after 1 meal they can jump in weight maybe 2 lbs the next morning - but then take several days of back to normal low sodium eating to drop that extra water weight.
    In your normal state - just means you did not get that kind of effect then, because even if you had a meal or two that was lower sodium, you'd need several days to likely see a change.
    Not that other known reasons for water weight fluctuations didn't apply. Maybe you had a hard very sweating workout night before that first weigh-in and didn't make up the water, making you underestimated weight. Then final weigh-in back to normal. That kind of thing. Or maybe really sore on last weigh-in from hard workout day before.

    Fuel source/usage/storage.
    Muscles are burning ATP literally, from where that is sourced depends on how quickly it needs more - under aerobic conditions it's a % range of fat to higher % glycogen as you get more intense and less aerobic.
    Very intense movements for short amounts of time, like lifting or likely the intense part of the workouts you do - are sourced from intramuscular stored glycogen, so it doesn't have to wait for blood supply to bring it (and to spare what's in the blood desired for the brain).
    That glycogen is stored with water. 1g with 3g.
    You push the body, it responds to the stimuli by improving - one such improvement is to store more glycogen in the muscles. (another aerobic improvement is to use more fat as source, but some things are intense enough that won't work)
    My comment was if you were undereating and getting smaller amounts of carbs, and you increased your eating level - body finally got to do what it has been desiring to do - store more.

    Don't worry whether you burn fat or carbs during the workout, it's the whole day that matters.
    Because you used a bunch of carbs, after your next meal insulin is going to shuttle off eaten carbs back to that storage, blood sugar is going to drop sooner, insulin will go back down - and you'll be back to normal daily fat burning mode sooner than if you had no glycogen stores to refill.

    Is that really different than CrossFit reported?
    Or were they reporting on a study that HIIT (which is some cardio activity done in interval fashion, not some workout already done in interval fashion anyway) burned more subcutaneous fat than steady-state?
    It was due to what I said above - drop back into normal fat burning mode sooner. Not because it's used during the workout.
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    Ok MFP, Long read warning!

    I figured I'd give my monthly update and request for help. A mix of so-so news, but also huge epiphanies. If you want to cut to the chase and help me answer some questions, please go allll the way to the bottom. Everything in the middle is describing my journey in figuring things out!

    ****************************
    First of all, thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read and help me in the past. I don't write everyday and so I've kept myself to writing every month to update. To say that this has been a real-life experiment with my body has been quite eye opening. Lots of great info on the site and some great advice thus far. I wish this site was around 30 years ago!

    Ok, so update: I have gone up to 162lb, but I'm not upset because I took about 1.5 weeks off from my usual exercise routine but did it very lightly due to a strained wrist muscle (runs along side the left side of my arm when palm facing down) that was painful when doing pushups or doing pull ups. Might be from working crazy hours too as my job is writing and analyzing documents. However during that time, I really took the time to digest what I've learned here, started to religiously track macros by gram weight with a food scale, get a Polar H10 to more precisely determine my calorie burn, and get myself Dexafit scanned.

    So I had read that one of the members here did Dexafit down in Orange County CA and I looked up the website. They have a center here in SF, so I went 2 weekends ago. Wow, I am REALLY carrying way more body fat than I thought and the stats are much more different than my hydrostatic test back in 2014.

    New Dexafit stats (Some rounding)
    - 5'5" (still the same height)
    - 164lbs (wt with clothes); naked weight was 162lb in the morning, but lets call it 164 since that's what the calcs/percentages were based off of.
    - Body fat % = 30%. Fat wt = 48lbs (I nearly fainted when I saw this). Visceral fat wt = 2lbs. Total fat = 50lbs
    - Bone wt = 6lbs
    - Lean Tissue = 109lbs
    - Lean body mass (Lean tissue + bones) = 115lbs

    I did what they called an Resting Metabolic Rate test where I was told to relax on a couch and breath through/into an apparatus. My stats:

    RMR = 1,450 cals. Based on this RMR (basal metabolic rate):

    - Sedentary (desk job w/ no exercise) = 1,615
    - Light active (desk job w/ 1-3 workout days) = 1,762
    - Moderately active (desk job w/ 3-5 workout days) = 1,982 <<< This is me

    So the Dexafit model says to subtract 200 from the activity category you fit in. Mine is 1,982 so I'll be 1,782 cals.
    Since that is a hair off 1,800, I decided to call it 1,800 cals since its easy to remember.

    FOLLOWING MACRO PLAN
    So I translated that 1,800 into macros and weighted the cals to emphasis proteins as I want to consume less carbs to help me reach my goals. Here's what I came up with:

    Macros- Protein (180g), Carbs (90g), and Fats (80g). This works out to 40%, 40% and 20%, respectively. This seems to be a good ratio to start with and I'm not gassing out too much in my work outs. Well, kinda.

    MFP CALORIE COUNT WILDLY OFF FOR ME
    I also made a pretty significant discovery using the Polar H10 heart rate monitor. And as I suspected, MFP's calorie counter for exercise is wildly off. For example tonight I did one of our Krav Maga workouts online again (one I've done several times now and very strenuous). MFP says 55 minutes = 660 cals. The H10 = 394 cals burned. Delta = 266 cals!

    One other thing I discovered through the H10 was that my martial arts class was only keeping me in the "fat burning zone" for about 15-20 mins. So I decide to do one of the signature P90X workouts (chest and back + ab ripper) and that kept me in the fat burn zone for 50 mins of the 110 min workout and burned slightly more calories as well (394 vs 402). While the cal burn/min was less, the fat burn time was nearly 3x in favor of P90X. So seems I'm burning more gylogen than I am fat when comparing the two workouts. And that might be why I haven't been burning the fat as quickly doing martial arts as I expected given the intense effort.

    The GOOD NEWS / EPIPHANIES
    So now I know the delta and that means I finally have a VERY CLEAR CUT GOAL! So now that I got my body's stats professionally figured out for me, I plugged it into yet another calculator that said statistically the best I could hope to achieve would be 138lbs at 5% body fat (that body fat seems low to me, but I digress). However I don't feel that's realistic for me too, so I'm shooting for the mid-145lb range. I've always felt that I was most happiest with my weight around 150lbs or slightly less, so that jibes with how I've felt in my more youthful past.

    - So my target fat loss goal is now 19lbs (164 - 145)

    INTAKE
    - My basal metabolic rate (RMR) I know for sure now is 1,450 calories.
    - My estimated calorie intake working out 4-5 times a week is 1,800 calories.
    - My Macros based plan says my consumption should be Protein (180g), Carbs (90g), and Fats (80g)

    A few of you should be patting yourselves on the back. Some of you said 1,800 should be my goal and science (Dexafit) backed up your educated guess :)

    EXERCISE
    - MFP was wildly off in estimating my calorie burn by an extra ~260 calories. That's a second light meal for me that I was eating when I started my MFP adventure. No bueno.
    - My calorie burn regardless of exercise type is about 400 cals per workout.

    QUESTIONS
    Ok seriously folks, I have NOT eaten this much in forever. I literally I am stuffed and struggling to eat 1,800 + 400 cals a day. My biggest struggle is breakfast. I'm so used to eating really light in the morning and light lunches because I don't like having food/liquids on my 1 hour train commute and also I don't like having food coma at work after lunch. Now that I'm working from home, it changed everything and I don't have those worries anymore.

    Q1: Do the macro counts sound directionally right for my goal to lose fat? Here they are again: Protein (180g), Carbs (90g), and Fats (80g)

    Q2: What nutrient/calorie dense breakfast foods (easy to make) are good? Right now I'm eating a protein bar plus coffee and one hour later I'm drinking Syntrax Lemon tea (which is really, really good). I could make eggs and toast but it doesn't really add much to the protein count but increases the carb count like no other. This morning I added a 200g chicken breast, but that didn't add too many cals but really pumped up the protein count

    Q3: Lunch: I added some more chicken breast, but do you guys recommend anything else that's nutrient dense and easy to prep?

    Q4: How much protein drink is too much? To even get close to my protein goal, I've been consuming the Syntrax Lemon tea (my stomach can tolerate this than the more creamy, chocolate based ones) 3 times a day (23g protein x 3). Acceptable?

    Q5: I'm finding myself consuming a lot of my calories immediately after my workout. Make sense, right? I usually finish my workout at 7PM and by the time we actually take the first bite, its after 7:30PM. I've grown up with the advice that you eat a heavier breakfast and a light dinner, but this will be challenging for me. Is there any harm to having heavier dinners after workout? My calorie consumption percentages are working out like this:

    20% cals at breakfast
    20% - 30% cals at lunch
    20% cals snacks (protein drink, banana, sometimes a protein bar, fruit)
    40% dinner

    Is that ok? Feels strange to eat so much at dinner.

    Any nutrition planning, foods, and any strategies would be greatly appreciated.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,175 Member
    edited July 2020
    RedDevilsBob wrote: »
    (snip for length)
    FOLLOWING MACRO PLAN
    So I translated that 1,800 into macros and weighted the cals to emphasis proteins as I want to consume less carbs to help me reach my goals. Here's what I came up with:

    Macros- Protein (180g), Carbs (90g), and Fats (80g). This works out to 40%, 40% and 20%, respectively. This seems to be a good ratio to start with and I'm not gassing out too much in my work outs. Well, kinda.

    (snip for length)

    Q1: Do the macro counts sound directionally right for my goal to lose fat? Here they are again: Protein (180g), Carbs (90g), and Fats (80g)
    More protein than essential IMO, even if you want to hedge your bets, but shouldn't be injurious to a healthy person if that's how you like to eat.

    Evidence-based summary source below, links to a "calculator" that for your stats suggests something like 89g would be OK, up to 112 as a bet-hedge.

    https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/
    Q2: What nutrient/calorie dense breakfast foods (easy to make) are good? Right now I'm eating a protein bar plus coffee and one hour later I'm drinking Syntrax Lemon tea (which is really, really good). I could make eggs and toast but it doesn't really add much to the protein count but increases the carb count like no other. This morning I added a 200g chicken breast, but that didn't add too many cals but really pumped up the protein count

    Any foods you enjoy, that contribute you to hitting close to calorie, macro & micro goals by end of most days.

    Carbs are not evil, no matter that it's trendy to say they are. If eating them spikes your appetite, you may want to limit them. If you're diabetic or insulin-resistant (which I didn't see you say), you will want to manage them (which doesn't necessarily mean completely minimizing them). If none of that applies, then once you have enough protein and healthy fats (which are "essential nutrients" in the technical sense), you can fill in the rest of calories with carbs (or any other macro you prefer).
    Q3: Lunch: I added some more chicken breast, but do you guys recommend anything else that's nutrient dense and easy to prep?

    If you feel the need to eat so much protein, the answer is probably in here:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

    Options: Hard-boiled eggs, Greek yogurt, tuna or other fish . . . .
    Q4: How much protein drink is too much? To even get close to my protein goal, I've been consuming the Syntrax Lemon tea (my stomach can tolerate this than the more creamy, chocolate based ones) 3 times a day (23g protein x 3). Acceptable?

    What's important for nutrition is getting your essential macro and micronutrients, plus enough fiber. I personally prefer to eat (chew) my calories rather than drink them (tastier, more sating), and find less processed options than protein drinks to be more sating, and to have a better total nutritional profile (including, potentially, beneficial nutrients not yet identified by science that have long been in traditional foods people have been eating for centuries or even millennia.)

    But that's me. If you find that drink tasty/filling, and it helps you hit nutritional goals, it should be fine.
    Q5: I'm finding myself consuming a lot of my calories immediately after my workout. Make sense, right? I usually finish my workout at 7PM and by the time we actually take the first bite, its after 7:30PM. I've grown up with the advice that you eat a heavier breakfast and a light dinner, but this will be challenging for me. Is there any harm to having heavier dinners after workout? My calorie consumption percentages are working out like this:

    Food timing is largely a matter of personal preference, except possibly for elite athletes trying to squeeze out that last 0.05% of improved performance. For the rest of us, the big issue with food timing is compliance with calorie goal. Eat your food at times that subjectively seem to keep your energy up, keep you feeling full, and don't cause problems (some people don't sleep well if they eat late, some people get queasy if they eat before exercise - that sort of thing).
    (snip for length)

    Any nutrition planning, foods, and any strategies would be greatly appreciated.

    I used this process (link below) to remodel my eating to meet my nutritional (and other goals). YMMV.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10636388/free-customized-personal-weight-loss-eating-plan-not-spam-or-mlm/p1

    Other points:

    * Believe heybales when he says "fat burning zone" doesn't matter (it's just about fueling in the moment), and that calories are what matter (because a calorie deficit will be made up eventually by burning primarily stored body fat). You burn a very high percentage of fat while sleeping: Doesn't mean you need to sleep all the time in order to lose weight, right? Same idea with "fat burning zone".
    * On that food scale being messy/annoying issue, try the tips in this thread (ignore the joke-y clickbait thread title, it's really about how to use a scale efficiently, if you decide it's important to you to use one . . . unlike some here, I don't think it's essential for everyone, but I think it can be very helpful to people who aren't getting the results they want, to diagnose what's going wrong, and tune-in a more successful method.)

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10498882/weighing-food-takes-too-long-and-is-obsessive/p1

    Just my opinions, throughout.
  • RedDevilsBob
    RedDevilsBob Posts: 13 Member
    Heybales, you are a pro. Thank you for explaining the science behind all your replies. I'm learning, so much appreciated.

    AnnPT: Thank you for the links and your knowledge around protein macro amounts. You've spurred me to re-evaluate and read more on macro counts. Thank you for the links and food recommendations.

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