why am i hungrier at lunch when i eat breakfast?
anna_lowe
Posts: 39 Member
i generally follow the same schedule. i eat lunch at around 11:30 or 12.
if i don't eat breakfast, i can make it to lunch without a problem at all. maybe a couple of hunger twitches but nothing i can't handle.
if i eat breakfast, i'm ravenous 2 hours later and can't make it until 11:30 to eat lunch. i'm talking 'can't focus, hunger pains, almost sick to my stomach' type of hunger.
i don't buy into the 'kickstart my metabolism' shtuff so i don't think that's it.
any ideas?
i only care because i work out early in the morning and would like to eat something afterwards, but not if it's going to make me have to eat an hour later.
if i don't eat breakfast, i can make it to lunch without a problem at all. maybe a couple of hunger twitches but nothing i can't handle.
if i eat breakfast, i'm ravenous 2 hours later and can't make it until 11:30 to eat lunch. i'm talking 'can't focus, hunger pains, almost sick to my stomach' type of hunger.
i don't buy into the 'kickstart my metabolism' shtuff so i don't think that's it.
any ideas?
i only care because i work out early in the morning and would like to eat something afterwards, but not if it's going to make me have to eat an hour later.
2
Replies
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What are you eating in the morning? Try getting a good amount of protein, fiber and fat in it.4
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You break your fast when you eat your first meal. If youre not eating until lunch then that is when youre breaking your fast.3
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This is why I skip breakfast other than a cup of coffee.
I also workout in the mornings but unless I’m really hungry after my run (which I’m usually not) I just wait until lunch to eat.5 -
i generally follow the same schedule. i eat lunch at around 11:30 or 12.
if i don't eat breakfast, i can make it to lunch without a problem at all. maybe a couple of hunger twitches but nothing i can't handle.
if i eat breakfast, i'm ravenous 2 hours later and can't make it until 11:30 to eat lunch. i'm talking 'can't focus, hunger pains, almost sick to my stomach' type of hunger.
i don't buy into the 'kickstart my metabolism' shtuff so i don't think that's it.
any ideas?
i only care because i work out early in the morning and would like to eat something afterwards, but not if it's going to make me have to eat an hour later.
What are you eating for breakfast? If I were to have something low protein like cereal or a bagel, I would feel this way as well.
My protein powder/coffee/chia seed/coconut shreds smoothie fills me up for a lot longer.2 -
When your glycogen (carb) stores are depleted, which happens usually while you sleep, the body will shift to using fat for fuel. Since you are asleep, you aren’t awake to feel hungry (midnight snack anyone?). Once the body starts using fat for fuel, The body reduces production of the hunger hormone, so you feel less hungry when you wake.
However, once your olfactory senses are activated, you will feel hungry; or you eat breakfast, your metabolism immediately will burn the carbs first because it is easier. You will then experience hunger hormone production once glycogen stores are used up again.
My bet...your breakfast is something with carbs.7 -
If what you eat for breakfast is carb or sugar heavy, it may be causing a high-then-low blood sugar sequence that is making you hungrier at lunchtime. Try eating more proteins and fat at breakfast, e.g. eggs instead of cereal.2
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i only care because i work out early in the morning and would like to eat something afterwards, but not if it's going to make me have to eat an hour later.
I'll get same effect without a workout unless the breakfast is really high protein/fat.
Sets off bad insulin response for me. I know it does for others too, making them feel hungry when they don't need to be due to low blood sugar when there is plenty available.
What is your workout?
Why do you want to eat something afterwards?
What do you eat?
Your word choice doesn't sound like it's necessary as if super hungry.0 -
josh2452180 wrote: »When your glycogen (carb) stores are depleted, which happens usually while you sleep, the body will shift to using fat for fuel. Since you are asleep, you aren’t awake to feel hungry (midnight snack anyone?). Once the body starts using fat for fuel, The body reduces production of the hunger hormone, so you feel less hungry when you wake.
However, once your olfactory senses are activated, you will feel hungry; or you eat breakfast, your metabolism immediately will burn the carbs first because it is easier. You will then experience hunger hormone production once glycogen stores are used up again.
My bet...your breakfast is something with carbs.
Your body was using fat as fuel probably around 90% as you slept. There is no shift to fat, that's primary already all the time until you go closer to anaerobic in a workout.
Nonsense it's being depleted in liver unless you have setup a prior to bedtime routine of low carb and 1 last really hard workout using glucose to wipe it out.
Your body will also burn what it ate - while shuttling carbs eaten off to be stored first.
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josh2452180 wrote: »When your glycogen (carb) stores are depleted, which happens usually while you sleep, the body will shift to using fat for fuel. Since you are asleep, you aren’t awake to feel hungry (midnight snack anyone?). Once the body starts using fat for fuel, The body reduces production of the hunger hormone, so you feel less hungry when you wake.
However, once your olfactory senses are activated, you will feel hungry; or you eat breakfast, your metabolism immediately will burn the carbs first because it is easier. You will then experience hunger hormone production once glycogen stores are used up again.
My bet...your breakfast is something with carbs.
Your body was using fat as fuel probably around 90% as you slept. There is no shift to fat, that's primary already all the time until you go closer to anaerobic in a workout.
Nonsense it's being depleted in liver unless you have setup a prior to bedtime routine of low carb and 1 last really hard workout using glucose to wipe it out.
Your body will also burn what it ate - while shuttling carbs eaten off to be stored first.
I do not think I am completely wrong. The body prefers using carbohydrates for fuel, and will do so when given carbohydrate input. That is section 2 in cellular respiration. Right after a meal, the body will use carbohydrates for organ and brain function. A few hours after, glycogen stores are used primarily, and fat stores secondarily. When we go to sleep a few hours after our meal, melatonin will take over and promote fat usage, to a degree that is proportional to how much glycogen stores we have. There is a lot that goes on, and there are a lot of variables, so context is important. Also, since carbohydrates get metabolized faster, grehlin production happens sooner than when someone has a fatty meal, as does blood sugar drop. If a person gets hungry or jittery a few hours after a carb-rich meal, and if they fight it, there is that shift to fat metabolism. Grehlin production goes down and blood sugar levels even. The body adapts, or shifts, to using fat for its primary fuel.
To say that is uses fat for its major source of fuel all the time is folly. It is a secondary fuel.
Your comments caused me to research further about calorie burn during sleep, and was surprised to find there was a study on sleep time vs fat burn. I haven't been getting a lot of sleep lately (usually less than 6 hours hehe), so I should work to improve that. I also eat later in the evening, and it consist largely of protein and fat. No bueno.
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You people disagreeing with certain information are disagreeing with rudimentary understanding of cellular biology that comes from a basic biology or nutrition book (which is where I am getting my information). What gives? If there is other information, please share. I would like to educate myself.3
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Someone else disagreed, not me. But you are wrong. And indeed physiology books for decades have had this process down.
Depends on what you mean by body prefers using carbs. Usually that term comes from the keto crowd that have misconception about things.
If blood sugar is high and insulin is released than what you ate, is used as energy source. Fat & carbs.
But glucose is sent first off to the liver and if unneeded is sent off to muscle stores, if blood sugar still not going down because those are topped off (in a diet they would rarely be), then it's burned as fuel for activity then.
In proper working body eventually it'll be converted to fat and used/stored if still too high or too long.
There is more research on just how infrequent that actually is, because it's not efficient process.
But outside that 1-4 hrs after eating - body prefers and uses fat as main energy source (80-90% easily) unless your workouts take you into higher intensities - fat is still used, and increasing % of carbs is used also.
Look up the many people that have posted their RMR tests, or VO2max tests, online.
You'll find reference to RER values or straight out column for fat/carb % of energy source as exercise goes up.
Best way for you to have proved what happens.
None of this has changed since my 1980's physiology books.
What may influence slight variations in the process have been expanded with more research, and of course diseased states totally throwing a monkey wrench in. Exercise scenarios have been improved, especially for recovery and improvements.
ETA -
Unless keto adapted - it is your brain that is always using blood sugar - that doesn't change depending on what you ate.
And there is usually enough liver stores to feed it for 24 hrs abouts if no other big pulls on those stores.
Most the organs keep using fats as their mitochondria are setup for that energy source - never a shortage.
Muscles switch depending on what's needed to be used and available.6 -
josh2452180 wrote: »You people disagreeing with certain information are disagreeing with rudimentary understanding of cellular biology that comes from a basic biology or nutrition book (which is where I am getting my information). What gives? If there is other information, please share. I would like to educate myself.
Sorry but your understanding of fuel utilisation is extremely flawed.
Carbs and fat are used as fuel simultaneously and not sequentially. You don't start to use fat - you have been using it since the day you were born for the majority of your days.
An average sized man can only store around 2,000 cals of glycogen and our bodies seek to preserve that as much as possible as it's a valuable resource, it's your exercise rocket fuel.
Complete carb depletion is very rare and normally a result of an endurance athlete seriously messing up their fuelling. Hitting the wall in running terms or bonking as cyclists call it. It's an awful experience with absolutely crushing fatigue, loss of coordination and mental confusion.
During low activity fat is the predominant fuel - while sleeping it represents the vast majority of fuel being used.
Get yourself to a sports lab where you can be hooked up to a breath analyser while exercising to reveal the ratio of carbs to fat being used. While setting up the equipment I was burning hardly any carbs. As the exercise started and steadily ramped up the intensity the ratio changed - it wasn't until I hit 130bpm (my long distance cycling cruising pace) that carbs reached 50% of fuel.
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Thank you for the education and insight. My "rudimentary texts" were a bit vague with this, so I was going on little information. I think this helps me understand the fat zone/ cardio zone classification of heart rate a little more. Though, I wasn't totally wrong...the hunger hormone does kick in after about 2-3 hours if the meal is carb heavy
which is what the OP is experiencing.
In terms of what the body prefers...I am referencing the carbs it eats, not what is stored. As soon as those new carbs are metabolized, grehlin is produced because it wants to use that instead of its reserves. I am aware that the glycogen stores are saved for intense physical activity but can run out, and that can lead to muscle tissue breakdown because of gluconeogenesis.
So, with that information, workout or not, OP should either not eat breakfast (workout or no workout), eat a fatty breakfast, or snack until lunch if the breakfast is carb heavy.
edited because of phrasing.
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Again - realize that carbs you eat are first used to fill up stores - liver and muscle stores.
Those will be needed later - energy for right now can come from the fat you've eaten since fat release from fat cells has been stopped by insulin, or fat that was floating around already is used.
That's why someone that has had an intense glycogen heavy workout and wiped out their stores, can eat a carb heavy meal, and insulin can drop in 30 min, and may actually go to low blood sugar because more storage was available, though the glucagon release should stop that.
Their burn rate of sitting there after a meal is minimal, using the carbs they just ate as total energy source would never go that fast. It's because vast majority went back into storage.
The studies on ultra-marathoners getting biopsies is very interesting. Nothing like taking a chunk of muscle every 10 min or so. (I know, very small)
Your fat/glycogen usage during a workout really swap % as intensity goes up, not really any saving for only the intense efforts. I went and looked up my 2 tests (which were days after a big race so not totally valid for all figures), 128 bpm. And it's straight line pretty much swap from start to end.
And muscle as an energy source is a total last resort - that's when you are starving, and you aren't exercising then.
There is no purposeful breakdown of muscle for that purpose unless starving and there is no options. It's a very energy inefficient process the body would rather not do.
There is some muscle breakdown, during prolonged endurance and it can be used then. (there is some everyday even without exercise actually, just like any cells).
But there is more lactic acid being used as energy source compared to amino acids.
It's a misnomer when people say burning off muscle.
That is more a situation of your normal daily breakdown - and you haven't eaten enough in general, or enough protein specifically, to build that back up.
It wasn't broken down for reasons of a fuel source, it was happening anyway. A poor diet just prevented rebuilding it. Net effect is indeed losing muscle over time, so that the available protein/calories taken in could be used for more important basic cellular functions.
Yes, OP would be good to examine what you've mentioned for breakfast options to stop the effect.
It sounds like it's not even totally needed - some are mislead they need to eat something specific after a workout, that could totally be it.6 -
Responses made me giggle. Lol.
If you prefer not to eat breakfast, skip it
If you prefer breakfast, try swapping what you eat as others suggested. I always eat eggs for breakfast. It doesn’t set me off hungry a couple of hours later. I find eating cereal or bread etc does. (I’m sure it doesn’t for everyone. We’re all different..... )6 -
josh250to180 wrote: »You people disagreeing with certain information are disagreeing with rudimentary understanding of cellular biology that comes from a basic biology or nutrition book (which is where I am getting my information). What gives? If there is other information, please share. I would like to educate myself.josh250to180 wrote: »You people disagreeing with certain information are disagreeing with rudimentary understanding of cellular biology that comes from a basic biology or nutrition book (which is where I am getting my information). What gives? If there is other information, please share. I would like to educate myself.josh250to180 wrote: »You people disagreeing with certain information are disagreeing with rudimentary understanding of cellular biology that comes from a basic biology or nutrition book (which is where I am getting my information). What gives? If there is other information, please share. I would like to educate myself.josh250to180 wrote: »You people disagreeing with certain information are disagreeing with rudimentary understanding of cellular biology that comes from a basic biology or nutrition book (which is where I am getting my information). What gives? If there is other information, please share. I would like to educate myself.josh250to180 wrote: »You people disagreeing with certain information are disagreeing with rudimentary understanding of cellular biology that comes from a basic biology or nutrition book (which is where I am getting my information). What gives? If there is other information, please share. I would like to educate myself.Someone else disagreed, not me. But you are wrong. And indeed physiology books for decades have had this process down.
Depends on what you mean by body prefers using carbs. Usually that term comes from the keto crowd that have misconception about things.
If blood sugar is high and insulin is released than what you ate, is used as energy source. Fat & carbs.
But glucose is sent first off to the liver and if unneeded is sent off to muscle stores, if blood sugar still not going down because those are topped off (in a diet they would rarely be), then it's burned as fuel for activity then.
In proper working body eventually it'll be converted to fat and used/stored if still too high or too long.
There is more research on just how infrequent that actually is, because it's not efficient process.
But outside that 1-4 hrs after eating - body prefers and uses fat as main energy source (80-90% easily) unless your workouts take you into higher intensities - fat is still used, and increasing % of carbs is used also.
Look up the many people that have posted their RMR tests, or VO2max tests, online.
You'll find reference to RER values or straight out column for fat/carb % of energy source as exercise goes up.
Best way for you to have proved what happens.
None of this has changed since my 1980's physiology books.
What may influence slight variations in the process have been expanded with more research, and of course diseased states totally throwing a monkey wrench in. Exercise scenarios have been improved, especially for recovery and improvements.
ETA -
Unless keto adapted - it is your brain that is always using blood sugar - that doesn't change depending on what you ate.
And there is usually enough liver stores to feed it for 24 hrs abouts if no other big pulls on those stores.
Most the organs keep using fats as their mitochondria are setup for that energy source - never a shortage.
Muscles switch depending on what's needed to be used and available.Someone else disagreed, not me. But you are wrong. And indeed physiology books for decades have had this process down.
Depends on what you mean by body prefers using carbs. Usually that term comes from the keto crowd that have misconception about things.
If blood sugar is high and insulin is released than what you ate, is used as energy source. Fat & carbs.
But glucose is sent first off to the liver and if unneeded is sent off to muscle stores, if blood sugar still not going down because those are topped off (in a diet they would rarely be), then it's burned as fuel for activity then.
In proper working body eventually it'll be converted to fat and used/stored if still too high or too long.
There is more research on just how infrequent that actually is, because it's not efficient process.
But outside that 1-4 hrs after eating - body prefers and uses fat as main energy source (80-90% easily) unless your workouts take you into higher intensities - fat is still used, and increasing % of carbs is used also.
Look up the many people that have posted their RMR tests, or VO2max tests, online.
You'll find reference to RER values or straight out column for fat/carb % of energy source as exercise goes up.
Best way for you to have proved what happens.
None of this has changed since my 1980's physiology books.
What may influence slight variations in the process have been expanded with more research, and of course diseased states totally throwing a monkey wrench in. Exercise scenarios have been improved, especially for recovery and improvements.
ETA -
Unless keto adapted - it is your brain that is always using blood sugar - that doesn't change depending on what you ate.
And there is usually enough liver stores to feed it for 24 hrs abouts if no other big pulls on those stores.
Most the organs keep using fats as their mitochondria are setup for that energy source - never a shortage.
Muscles switch depending on what's needed to be used and available.Someone else disagreed, not me. But you are wrong. And indeed physiology books for decades have had this process down.
Depends on what you mean by body prefers using carbs. Usually that term comes from the keto crowd that have misconception about things.
If blood sugar is high and insulin is released than what you ate, is used as energy source. Fat & carbs.
But glucose is sent first off to the liver and if unneeded is sent off to muscle stores, if blood sugar still not going down because those are topped off (in a diet they would rarely be), then it's burned as fuel for activity then.
In proper working body eventually it'll be converted to fat and used/stored if still too high or too long.
There is more research on just how infrequent that actually is, because it's not efficient process.
But outside that 1-4 hrs after eating - body prefers and uses fat as main energy source (80-90% easily) unless your workouts take you into higher intensities - fat is still used, and increasing % of carbs is used also.
Look up the many people that have posted their RMR tests, or VO2max tests, online.
You'll find reference to RER values or straight out column for fat/carb % of energy source as exercise goes up.
Best way for you to have proved what happens.
None of this has changed since my 1980's physiology books.
What may influence slight variations in the process have been expanded with more research, and of course diseased states totally throwing a monkey wrench in. Exercise scenarios have been improved, especially for recovery and improvements.
ETA -
Unless keto adapted - it is your brain that is always using blood sugar - that doesn't change depending on what you ate.
And there is usually enough liver stores to feed it for 24 hrs abouts if no other big pulls on those stores.
Most the organs keep using fats as their mitochondria are setup for that energy source - never a shortage.
Muscles switch depending on what's needed to be used and available.
0 -
I’m sorry lol. I’m trying to figure out how to reply properly in this community feature. But.. every Bio & physiology class I’ve taken, my instructors clearly state cals you eat are burned first. Then if unused.. it’s stored as fat. This is the reason why intermittent fasting works. Stop eating for awhile then your body has no choice but to burn more fat as fuel than it would if you were eating round the clock. Also this is why working out in a faster state works so well when trying to burn fat off.1
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AlexandriaRenee wrote: »I’m sorry lol. I’m trying to figure out how to reply properly in this community feature. But.. every Bio & physiology class I’ve taken, my instructors clearly state cals you eat are burned first. Then if unused.. it’s stored as fat. This is the reason why intermittent fasting works. Stop eating for awhile then your body has no choice but to burn more fat as fuel than it would if you were eating round the clock. Also this is why working out in a faster state works so well when trying to burn fat off.
You can edit your post within 60 min too.
And you should keep reading some research or text books.
Look up where insulin causes glucose to go. Simple as that.
Either your classes were simplifying things, or yes, wrong.
Which totally changes the 2 results you think comes from a process that is actually incorrect.
(hint - I gave the answer already)3 -
AlexandriaRenee wrote: »I’m sorry lol. I’m trying to figure out how to reply properly in this community feature. But.. every Bio & physiology class I’ve taken, my instructors clearly state cals you eat are burned first. Then if unused.. it’s stored as fat. This is the reason why intermittent fasting works. Stop eating for awhile then your body has no choice but to burn more fat as fuel than it would if you were eating round the clock. Also this is why working out in a faster state works so well when trying to burn fat off.
If you're in an overall deficit, your body is going to be using fat for energy whether you're eating once a day, within a limited eating window, or eating every hour on the hour. It's really personal preference, you don't have to do IF in order to burn fat.4 -
AlexandriaRenee wrote: »I’m sorry lol. I’m trying to figure out how to reply properly in this community feature. But.. every Bio & physiology class I’ve taken, my instructors clearly state cals you eat are burned first. Then if unused.. it’s stored as fat. This is the reason why intermittent fasting works. Stop eating for awhile then your body has no choice but to burn more fat as fuel than it would if you were eating round the clock. Also this is why working out in a faster state works so well when trying to burn fat off.
It doesn't work that way. Your muscles and your liver both store glycogen that is used in times of need (like for exercise). When you are not exercising, your body uses both glycogen and fats (triglycerides) for energy. Working out fasted does NOT burn more fat than working out fed (there hasn't been a single study that I am aware of that shows more fat burned as a result of a fasted workout). Also, unless you are doing multi-hour intense exercises, you will not burn off enough of the glycogen to deplete the glycogen stores (which are ALWAYS used first for intense exercise because of the time it takes to convert fat into energy).5 -
https://physiqonomics.com/fasted-training/
No studies but those showing slight difference during and immediate post workouts - but when the whole day is examined it's a wash.
Therefore back to what is going to allow you a better workout, and better results from it.3 -
If I eat breakfast I’m starving all day long. Anyone who seriously says breakfast is the most important meal of the day is either doing a super physical job or owns stock in General Mills. Don’t eat breakfast unless you’re hungry early in the morning, and if you do eat make it something high in protein and fiber. Cereal, pancakes, and muffins are stupid. Omelettes are life.0
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