Need Advice for Muscle Gain
vnssngyn
Posts: 1 Member
Hi all! I’m currently trying to gain muscle mass while burn fat. For those who were able to gain muscle mass how were you all able to do it? Also how did it feel to gain muscles mass? The only thing I’m concerned is that you have to gain weight in order to gain muscles and honestly I’m quite scared of adding some weight to my body without getting fat. Do I need to incorporate more proteins in my diet in order to gain muscles and lose fat? I’m currently 115 lb and 5’0” if this information helps.
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Replies
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Recomposition or"recomp" is generally how it's done, however it's not a speedy process https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat/p1
To add muscle you need to challenge the muscle in some way to stimulate growth, usually done by a progressive weight lifting program. Yes, adequate protein will be required to feed that growth. Whether you need more or not depends on your current protein consumption. I aim for 1 g of protein per lb of body weight but .8 g/lb seems to be a common recommendation.2 -
Personally I find recomp results to be underwhelming for the most part. Even with the addition of an AAS results can still be lack luster.
Firstly.
DO NOT MAKE YOUR OWN WORKOUT PROGRAM. Not a dig, but you do not have the knowledge or experience to create one to benefit you and maximize results.
Secondly.
You need to eat protein daily regardless of your goals. You need protein to function.
If you're gaining muscle you are going to gain weight. You cannot add mass without an increase in weight.
You cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Recomp is essentially a roller coaster. You sit on the line of maintenance. Causing your tdee to fluctuate. Thus with some days resulting in a surplus. Others a deficit. So that you will gain a pinch of muscle while other times you may lose a pinch of fat. Over years recomp can be good for those looking to make slow progress without drastic changes.
But for someone looking to see changes sooner I would not recommend it. I'd personally suggest a 3-4x a week beginner weight lifting program while running a very moderate surplus of 200-250 calories a day with around 1g of protein per pound of lean mass up to per pound body weight. Yes you can do it. I'm currently doing 1.5g per pound of body weight.
You also need to focus on rest and hydration. Both are key factors. In changing body composition.1 -
You cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Recomp is essentially a roller coaster. You sit on the line of maintenance. Causing your tdee to fluctuate. Thus with some days resulting in a surplus. Others a deficit. So that you will gain a pinch of muscle while other times you may lose a pinch of fat. Over years recomp can be good for those looking to make slow progress without drastic changes.
.
Untrue.
Losing fat and gaining muscle are two separate mechanism that do work at the same time. You are burning fat all day long, it's just an energy source and doesn't stop when you are in a surplus - just the balance of burning versus storage.
Muscle protein synthesis is a 24 x7 process and is not dependant on a surplus, the rate varies but the process doesn't stop just because your calorie balance drops into a deficit.
Complete myth that a surplus is necessary to gain muscle, it may well be optimal and can of course be faster but that's not the same as being a requirement.
Apart from those misunderstandings there's some good advcie in there.10 -
Hi all! I’m currently trying to gain muscle mass while burn fat. For those who were able to gain muscle mass how were you all able to do it? Also how did it feel to gain muscles mass? The only thing I’m concerned is that you have to gain weight in order to gain muscles and honestly I’m quite scared of adding some weight to my body without getting fat. Do I need to incorporate more proteins in my diet in order to gain muscles and lose fat? I’m currently 115 lb and 5’0” if this information helps.
You gain muscle by training effectively, with an adequate diet to support that training.
The requirement for that effectiveness is very variable depending on where you are starting from - for a beginner or someone undertrained just about any training will work (for a while). For someone advanced or close to their genetic potential they have to be far more structured.
Ditto to a degree as regards your diet that supports your training and recovery from training. Hence someone training well for 10 years may have to have everything optimised to make any progress - but that's very different for someone just starting out.
You haven't said anything about yourself so where on the spectrum you sit is unknown.
Where are you starting from and what are your short and long term physique ambitions?
Without knowing how much protein you currently consume "more" can't be judged.
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It's do-able but slow, in my experience. For me (F, early 50s, 5'10", 168lb) a calorie deficit averaging about 250 per day and macros of 40: protein, 40: fat and 20: carbs is optimal. Along with working bloody hard (technical term!) in the gym - resistance training 4-5 days per week, high intensity cardio 1 day per week, something light the remaining day per week.0
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You cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Recomp is essentially a roller coaster. You sit on the line of maintenance. Causing your tdee to fluctuate. Thus with some days resulting in a surplus. Others a deficit. So that you will gain a pinch of muscle while other times you may lose a pinch of fat. Over years recomp can be good for those looking to make slow progress without drastic changes.
.
Untrue.
Losing fat and gaining muscle are two separate mechanism that do work at the same time. You are burning fat all day long, it's just an energy source and doesn't stop when you are in a surplus - just the balance of burning versus storage.
Muscle protein synthesis is a 24 x7 process and is not dependant on a surplus, the rate varies but the process doesn't stop just because your calorie balance drops into a deficit.
Complete myth that a surplus is necessary to gain muscle, it may well be optimal and can of course be faster but that's not the same as being a requirement.
Apart from those misunderstandings there's some good advcie in there.
That is more or less what I said. I stated recomp is completely possible. However I personally find the results to be less than satisfactory.
If I do recall years ago when I frequented this forum more you were a strong supporter of recomp and essentially ran it year round right? Not trying to imply anything. Just recognizing some faces/names.0 -
You cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Recomp is essentially a roller coaster. You sit on the line of maintenance. Causing your tdee to fluctuate. Thus with some days resulting in a surplus. Others a deficit. So that you will gain a pinch of muscle while other times you may lose a pinch of fat. Over years recomp can be good for those looking to make slow progress without drastic changes.
.
Untrue.
Losing fat and gaining muscle are two separate mechanism that do work at the same time. You are burning fat all day long, it's just an energy source and doesn't stop when you are in a surplus - just the balance of burning versus storage.
Muscle protein synthesis is a 24 x7 process and is not dependant on a surplus, the rate varies but the process doesn't stop just because your calorie balance drops into a deficit.
Complete myth that a surplus is necessary to gain muscle, it may well be optimal and can of course be faster but that's not the same as being a requirement.
Apart from those misunderstandings there's some good advcie in there.
That is more or less what I said. I stated recomp is completely possible. However I personally find the results to be less than satisfactory.
If I do recall years ago when I frequented this forum more you were a strong supporter of recomp and essentially ran it year round right? Not trying to imply anything. Just recognizing some faces/names.
I'm only a strong supporter in the sense that it's a perfectly normal thing (a.k.a. "getting in shape") and dislike seeing people getting sucked into bulk/cut cycles for the wrong reasons or based on misunderstandings. Just as can also be said for recomp there's pros and cons.
Although bulk/cut is also a perfectly reasonable option for some that tends to be for people with more advanced physique aspirations or closer to their training peak - in other words a small minority of the general population. I'm sensing strongly the OP isn't part of that minority.
I did a deliberate recomp for a while (at a tiny 1lb/month deficit) and got good results in terms of muscle growth and fat loss but TBH since then I'm happy for my physique to be a consequence of my exercise rather than a standalone goal (incidental recomp perhaps?). My goals are performance based rather than body composition and gaining weight would be a disadvantage to my main sport and cutting just doesn't appeal.
It's hard in threads like this where the OP doesn't give any real data or goals to work with - hope they open up a dialogue otherwise it's all guesswork.3 -
You cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Recomp is essentially a roller coaster. You sit on the line of maintenance. Causing your tdee to fluctuate. Thus with some days resulting in a surplus. Others a deficit. So that you will gain a pinch of muscle while other times you may lose a pinch of fat. Over years recomp can be good for those looking to make slow progress without drastic changes.
.
Untrue.
Losing fat and gaining muscle are two separate mechanism that do work at the same time. You are burning fat all day long, it's just an energy source and doesn't stop when you are in a surplus - just the balance of burning versus storage.
Muscle protein synthesis is a 24 x7 process and is not dependant on a surplus, the rate varies but the process doesn't stop just because your calorie balance drops into a deficit.
Complete myth that a surplus is necessary to gain muscle, it may well be optimal and can of course be faster but that's not the same as being a requirement.
Apart from those misunderstandings there's some good advcie in there.
That is more or less what I said. I stated recomp is completely possible. However I personally find the results to be less than satisfactory.
If I do recall years ago when I frequented this forum more you were a strong supporter of recomp and essentially ran it year round right? Not trying to imply anything. Just recognizing some faces/names.
I'm only a strong supporter in the sense that it's a perfectly normal thing (a.k.a. "getting in shape") and dislike seeing people getting sucked into bulk/cut cycles for the wrong reasons or based on misunderstandings. Just as can also be said for recomp there's pros and cons.
Although bulk/cut is also a perfectly reasonable option for some that tends to be for people with more advanced physique aspirations or closer to their training peak - in other words a small minority of the general population. I'm sensing strongly the OP isn't part of that minority.
I did a deliberate recomp for a while (at a tiny 1lb/month deficit) and got good results in terms of muscle growth and fat loss but TBH since then I'm happy for my physique to be a consequence of my exercise rather than a standalone goal (incidental recomp perhaps?). My goals are performance based rather than body composition and gaining weight would be a disadvantage to my main sport and cutting just doesn't appeal.
It's hard in threads like this where the OP doesn't give any real data or goals to work with - hope they open up a dialogue otherwise it's all guesswork.
And I completely agree with you. Recomp is much more suitable for people who just want to live a generally healthy lifestyle.
For a mid 20s guy, bulking and cutting is the most beneficial way to reach my goals. Hell I'm consuming close 300g of protein most days recently. And I feel my best in a surplus. Rather than skimming the line. Though I hate getting stuck at a friends place without access to my fridge.
Very true, many posters on here would not last long on my AAS forums. Haha. They expect you to post down to the gram of protein per day. Total sets, reps, hours of sleep.
If not, you catch some real fun comments..1 -
if you are following an appropriate training program, consuming an appropriate amount of protein, inputting a caloric average at maintenance level and are around an average body fat level you will “recomp” whether you want to or not...2
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I'm loving the dislikes folks. Keep it up. Not going to change my mentality or my answers.
He has been given the same advice multiple times and not taken it. That Is his choice not mine, sorry if I upset someone for pointing that out.
I myself have given him a few tried and true programs that would help him achieve his goals.0 -
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Proper diet contribute like 70% of your gains and the rest of that is what you do in the gym, you cant do one without the another 🤷♂️. Calculate your TDEE, set your macros, get good gym program and it will work.
(( those are based on my experience, worked me that way, everyone is different.))
I hope you find what works for you, it is trials and errors.0 -
so become a scientist and experiment with the variables of exercise selection, frequency, volume and intensity.That's exactly what I was doing, the aworkoutroutine.com beginner program, with dumbbells, 3x per week full body, and strength doesn't increase beyond a certain point.
make sure you only change one or two things at a time, track your changes in your training log and give enough time between changes to gauge their effect...
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But for someone looking to see changes sooner I would not recommend it. I'd personally suggest a 3-4x a week beginner weight lifting program while running a very moderate surplus of 200-250 calories a day with around 1g of protein per pound of lean mass
That's exactly what I was doing, the aworkoutroutine.com beginner program, with dumbbells, 3x per week full body, and strength doesn't increase beyond a certain point.
That sounds exactly what beginner programs are designed to do, build a foundation.
When you get to that point change to more advanced programming in line with your particular goal(s) and capabilities/response to stimulus.
How long did you run your beginner program?1 -
@sijomial @jessef593
Alright so here’s my pitch and you two seem to know a lot more than me.. so i weighed 240 and dropped down to 190. I was on the keto diet. Now I’m still a little chubby ( dad bod ) but I stopped doing keto and started to try and learn how to count macros. What would you recommend for me if I say in the next 10 weeks, id like you lose 10 weeks I’d like to lose 10 more lbs while gaining more muscle mass? Or is that not a thing? I’m very new to this so any positive feedback is appreciated1 -
brandonedwards346 wrote: »@sijomial @jessef593
Alright so here’s my pitch and you two seem to know a lot more than me.. so i weighed 240 and dropped down to 190. I was on the keto diet. Now I’m still a little chubby ( dad bod ) but I stopped doing keto and started to try and learn how to count macros. What would you recommend for me if I say in the next 10 weeks, id like you lose 10 weeks I’d like to lose 10 more lbs while gaining more muscle mass? Or is that not a thing? I’m very new to this so any positive feedback is appreciated
@brandonedwards346
Yes it's possible for someone to gain some muscle in a sensible calorie deficit. It's clearly not optimal conditions for gaining muscle but not that unusual either.
Lots of personal factors involved though:
How good is your training.
How you respond to that training.
How old you are.
How male you are (the beard is a clue
)
How under-trained you are and your training history.
How big your deficit is.
How sensitive you are to that deficit (my wife says I'm very insensitive....)
But honestly don't get too invested in if it's possible for you as your goal means if you do the right things (appropriate training/size of deficit/decent amount of protein) then your results will probably be the best they could have been.
Really there's no bad options for deficit if you extend your horizon to 20 weeks.
Cut at half a pound a week would probably impact your training and recovery less but that's 20 weeks with some impact.
Cut at a pound a week to get to goal in 10 weeks and then 10 weeks probably more effective training at maintenance calories.
Probably six of one and half a dozen of the other. I'd probably go by how your energy and hunger levels feel with a nod towards if you have been dieting non-stop to lose that 50lbs (well done!) a small deficit might be better or if you had a break at maintenance then I'd be inclined to get the job done quicker. As you get leaner those last 10lbs make a big difference visually, if that's your motivation.1 -
Thanks for the input! I have an active job, and when I get home I run 1.5 miles, After that I hit the punching bag for 15 mins, and then I lift heavy for a little over an hour. I said 10 weeks because that’s just how long this body building plan “lasts” essentially I could continuously do it, it’s just lifting. I weigh 190 right now, but my BMI is still around low 20s. I think it’s 24 to be exact. Would you say for what I’m trying to accomplish, 1500 calories a day with a 60% protein 20%fat 20% carbs would be ideal? Or would you recommend a different macro count.0
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brandonedwards346 wrote: »Thanks for the input! I have an active job, and when I get home I run 1.5 miles, After that I hit the punching bag for 15 mins, and then I lift heavy for a little over an hour. I said 10 weeks because that’s just how long this body building plan “lasts” essentially I could continuously do it, it’s just lifting. I weigh 190 right now, but my BMI is still around low 20s. I think it’s 24 to be exact. Would you say for what I’m trying to accomplish, 1500 calories a day with a 60% protein 20%fat 20% carbs would be ideal? Or would you recommend a different macro count.
1500cals!!
That's a tiny amount.
A man with an active job, cardio and strength training but eating like a sedentary, non-exercising, little old lady isn't going to work. If you have ambitions to build muscle in a deficit eat at a sensible and not extreme deficit.
Start with getting a far more sensible calorie goal and percentages are a poor way to sort out macros, set minimums in grams for protein and fat and fill the rest with mostly carbs would be my suggestion.
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Lmao I told you I don’t know *kitten* about this lol. I figure if I kept my calories lower while working out like crazy, taking my protein, it would work! Guess I was wrong, but that’s why I’m asking people who know more! I’ll post pics of what the app recommends for grams, and see if you agree or think I should tweak it in any way1
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But for someone looking to see changes sooner I would not recommend it. I'd personally suggest a 3-4x a week beginner weight lifting program while running a very moderate surplus of 200-250 calories a day with around 1g of protein per pound of lean mass
That's exactly what I was doing, the aworkoutroutine.com beginner program, with dumbbells, 3x per week full body, and strength doesn't increase beyond a certain point.
As said half a dozen times. Full body is sub optimal for building muscle beyond beginner. Go back and read what you've been told. I suggested an upper lower split or a push pull legs. I cant repeat myself anymore.
For the people that continue to disagree with fact and experience. State your reasoning and facts. Or just keep being our keyboard warriors and saviors.0 -
brandonedwards346 wrote: »Thanks for the input! I have an active job, and when I get home I run 1.5 miles, After that I hit the punching bag for 15 mins, and then I lift heavy for a little over an hour. I said 10 weeks because that’s just how long this body building plan “lasts” essentially I could continuously do it, it’s just lifting. I weigh 190 right now, but my BMI is still around low 20s. I think it’s 24 to be exact. Would you say for what I’m trying to accomplish, 1500 calories a day with a 60% protein 20%fat 20% carbs would be ideal? Or would you recommend a different macro count.
Your calories are far too low my friend.
At that low for an adult Male at 190lbs. I would be beyond amazed if you gained any muscle. I'd honestly expect you to lose some.
In a mild deficit with appropriate diet, training, rest, and genetics. You can gain muscle. Though as @sijomial said it will be nothing to write home about. Even using AAS your gains would be less than exciting.
Personally.
Focus of losing for now, get to a comfortable weight. But first increase those damn calories. You're hindering your progress severely. Aim for 250-500 cal a week deficit. Thatd likely be around 2000 for you.
Keep training. Getting solid protein. 1g per lb of bodyweight works best for me. Everyone will vary slightly.
Ensure proper rest and hydration.
If you cover those. If you have muscle to build itll happen. But focus on getting to your preferred bf %. Then from there you can decide if youd like to follow a recomp style approach. Or If youd like to do a more classic slow bulk then cut. That is my preferred method.
As you will see your greatest changes following that method. Though you will see more ups and downs opposed to a more linear progression with recomp.
You're asking good questions and taking in the info. Keep doing that, putting the work in and you'll reach your goals.1 -
brandonedwards346 wrote: »Lmao I told you I don’t know *kitten* about this lol. I figure if I kept my calories lower while working out like crazy, taking my protein, it would work! Guess I was wrong, but that’s why I’m asking people who know more! I’ll post pics of what the app recommends for grams, and see if you agree or think I should tweak it in any way
If you don't know how many calories you have been eating recently then the MFP recommendation for a slow rate of loss (or a TDEE calculator if you prefer a same every day goal) will get you to a decent start point if you are honest with how you answer the questions and select a slow rate of loss.
2,500 is often given as a very rough maintenance amount for the mythical "average man" but you have an active job which isn't average these days, you also exercise quite a lot which again pushes you above average.
It's not just protein that is muscle sparing in a deficit, it's also carbs and simply keeping the size of your deficit sensible.
PS - There are diet protocols that involve short duration cuts, big deficits and very high protein but they are really aimed at advanced trainees and completely unnecessary for where you are at.1
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